Powered by RND
PodcastsTechnologyFeeling of Computing

Feeling of Computing

Ivan Reese, Jimmy Miller, and Lu Wilson
Feeling of Computing
Latest episode

Available Episodes

5 of 78
  • Let's Take Esoteric Programming Languages Seriously
    One of the biggest goals of this show — our raisin detour, if you will — is to encourage people to look at computer programming differently. It's not just a job, or a way to make the computer do what you want. Code isn't just the material you sculpt into apps and games and websites. The very act of programming itself, and the languages we make and use to do that programming, reflect who we are as people. Programming languages say something. Esolangs — esoteric programming languages — are programming languages created for these more self-reflective purposes. To some, they're defined by what they're not: not for serious use, not for education, not for efficiency. To others, they're a bunch of funny jokes that people can commiserate through after suffering the steep learning curve of becoming a programmer. A few find in them an opportunity to explore strange computational models, or baffling syntax designs. But is there more to them? Could there be? In this episode, we're discussing a preprint of the paper Let's Take Esoteric Programming Languages Seriously by Jeremy Singer and Steve Draper, and struggling with what it even means to give esoteric languages their due. Links $ Each of these episodes is a labour of love. If you appreciate that labour, slip us a five on Patreon. As is the norm, you'll get a second RSS feed with a bonus episode each and ev-er-y month. Except this month, there's actually two (2) bonus episodes, for the simple reason that this podcast swells with bubbles of hot waxy fluid that spill the container of my Ableton Live when they pop. The first pop is a half hour cut from this esolangs ep, the three of us brainstorming esolangs we'd enjoy, super casual and playful, perfect for building your parasocial podcast relationship, you'll love it. The second bonus, as I'm sure you've been expecting, is three hours of Jimmy and I relaying our experiences with Silksong, unpacking its few contentious design decisions, fawning over exquisite details, the good shit. So yeah, hand us one hundred nickles, help Ivan repair his basement, enjoy more of… whatever this is. Daniel Temkin 🛌 😴💤😘 esoteric.codes Daniel's new book, Forty-Four Esolangs Joana Chicau The Less Humble Programmer Esolangs Wiki Entropy, an esolang by (total dreamboat) Daniel Temkin Unnecessary, the 4:33 of esolangs, by Keymaker Turing Paint by Byron Knoll, which is similar to Brian Silverman's Wireworldand Lu's Cableworld Ivan's Visual Programming Codex, a collection of all the cool visual programming things Ivan has come across in his travels. Riskopoly — The Game of Capitalist Imperialism! Fanny#In_slang Brainfuck and Whitespace are two canonical esolangs. Our episode on Structure of a Programming Language Revolution, which includes extended discussion of Ivan's father-in-law's lookalike. Dreamberd is one of Lu's Esoteric programming languages, which has a (let's just say) "interesting" relationship with AI. The Story of Mel Piet, Befunge, and Malbolge are more classic, oft-cited esolangs. Fractran deserves special mention, since the language is comprised entirely of fractions, which is pretty neat. MarkovJunior also deserves special mention. Seriously, go look at the examples. Wild stuff. It's by Maxim Gumin, who also did the famous WaveFunctionCollapse project. We did an entire interview episode about Orca with creator Devine Lu Linvega, who more recently made Tote, a reversible rewriting sandbox. Reversible computing, something Ivan is particularly interested in. XKCD's comic X, about a programming language that uses fonts creatively. ArnoldC is one of those esolangs, like Shakespeare, Chef (which, actually, is kinda good actually if you actually have to eat whatever you code), or LOLCODE Wat; still hits. Bodyfuck Evil.css, "subtle and not-so-subtle CSS rules that will slowly drive people insane" Hest doesn't exist. Code golfing is the practice of making your code as succinct as possible, often at the expense of readability (though it leads certain people to write really good coffeescript). The International Obfuscated C Code Contest is related, in that it's about writing C code where unreadability is the goal. Jimmy would like to challenge y'all to write Fizz Buzz with no booleans, no conditionals, no pattern matching, or other things that are like disguised booleans. Arroost is a musical programming environment Lu made to NORMALIZE SHARING SCRAPPY FIDDLES. Inform is a natural programming language for interactive storytelling. PuzzleScript is a rewriting language for making tile-based puzzle games. Each of these sits at an interesting spot somewhere on the twisty boundary between the programming meaning of "expression" and the human meaning of "expression". The School for Poetic Computation occasionally runs a class called Digital Love Languages. Coming Out Simulator and other works by Nicky Case, and dys4ia by Anna Anthropy, are wonderful examples of the sort of deeply personal expression Lu and Ivan would like to see in programming tools. What music does Ivan listen to? Well… here's most of it. What music does Ivan make? Well… here's some of it. But Jimmy is fond of Diminished Fifth, an attempt to make some shrinking music with ClojureScript. It's no Merzbow. Zachtronics games, like exapunks — are they esolangs? A good number of recent videogames have included conlangs (constructed languages), such as 2023's fabulous Chants of Sennaar — but beware of spoilers, as some of these games might use the obscurity of the conlang to hide secrets in plain sight. Minecraft, natch, has a conlang for enchantments, and it's worth mentioning that redstone is an esolang of a sort. And then there's the Turing tarpit games, like Baba is You… the list goes on. Perhaps Tidal Cycles and Strudel are esolangs? Perhaps also the Game of Life? Hedy is an unabashed push to do something different! Jonathan Richman's He Gave Us The Wine To Taste It is probably my favourite of the various attempts artists have made to plead with their audiences: don't overthink this! (Friends of the show might be familiar with this one.) Isomorf let you view your program with your choice of syntax. It's like Hedy, but less humanitarian. Poe's Law is not Postel's law Music used in this episode: Two songs from Ivan's Organs. One from AG,BO. A slice of Diminished Fifth. The shortest track of this, the shortest track of that. The last song in the episode isn't on the internet, but the demo is. Jonathan Richman's He Gave Us The Wine To Taste It ! Send us email, join the FoC community, and find us on-line: Iv: 🐘 🦋 🌐 Jm: 🐘 🦋 🌐 Lu: 🐘 🦋 🌐 See you in dreamland~ https://feelingof.com/episodes/078/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/feelingofcomputingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
    --------  
    1:53:46
  • As We May Think by Vannevar Bush
    A classic "80-year predictions" episode. How did we do, humanity? Here's the article (free with ads): As We May Think Links $ Patreon We're considering changing The Name of the FoC community, podcast, et cetera. Transatlantic Accent, and all the ships at sea. This episode's advertisements: Ex-Lax, Mifflin, et cetera. The New Media Reader is a good read(er). Blue Prince is surely everyone's 2025 GOTY. You'll find ample discussion of its twisty design in our bonus feed. Oppenheimer was probably my least favourite David Nolen movie. ENIAC was, for a time, the computer. Engelbart The Polaroid instant camera dates back to the 1940s! Google Glass and Ray-Ban Meta, sigh Wikipedia's List of Existing Technologies Predicted in Science Fiction Apparently microfilm and microfiche are both instances of microform. Boy Milk, no explanation needed. Sean M. Carroll, physicist. Claude Shannon, information theorist ;) AI Is Not Your Friend appeared in The Atlantic on May 9th, 2025. Amazon Mechanical Turk is "artificial artificial intelligence". Awesome GitHub lists Daring Fireball and Kottke.org are two long-running blogs that helped popularize the "linkblog" form. The Wirecutter was our previous top pick for product recommendations, but their history of shilling junk and our growing concerns about e-waste have led us to downgrade them in our rankings. Devine (the other Lu) maintains a pair of wikis, one for hundredrabbits and another for research and projects. Alexander Obenauer also does a lovely job publishing research notes. Unison and Dynamicland are two strong visions for the future of computing. Music: lemon (tussed/screwed because everyone listens at 2x) ! Send us email, join the FoC community, and find us on-line: I: 🐘 🦋 🌐 J: 🐘 🦋 🌐 K: N/A L: 🐘 🦋 🌐 See you in the future! https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/077Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/feelingofcomputingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
    --------  
    1:59:30
  • Computing Machinery and Intelligence by Alan Turing (feat. Felienne Hermans)
    You know Alan Turing, right? And the Turing test? Have you actually read the paper that introduced it, Computing Machinery and Intelligence? No?! You… you are not prepared. With very special guest: Felienne Hermans Notes $ Patreon Mystery AI Hype Theatre 3000 podcast, from Emily M. Bender and Alex Hanna. "Always read the footnotes" [The Language Game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_game_(philosophy) by Ludwig Wittgenstein Can Machines Think? by W. "Billy" Mays Lu's paper with Dave Ackley, Dialogues on Natural Code describes how the symbiote will spread to consume all of humanity. Reclaiming AI as a Theoretical Tool for Cognitive Science by Iris van Rooij et al. Ned Block's Blockhead Nick Cave's thoughts on AI song lyrics. For instance: "Writing a good song is not mimicry, or replication, or pastiche, it is the opposite. […] It is the breathless confrontation with one’s vulnerability, one’s perilousness, one’s smallness, pitted against a sense of sudden shocking discovery; it is the redemptive artistic act that stirs the heart of the listener, where the listener recognizes in the inner workings of the song their own blood, their own struggle, their own suffering." What Computers Can't Do by Hubert Dryfus Wittgenstein on Rules by Saul Kripke Is chess the drosophila of artificial intelligence? by Nathan Ensmenger Computers as Theatre by Brenda Laurel ! Send us email, especially questions or topics you'd like us to discuss on future episodes, share your wildest ideas in the Slack, and: IVAN: 🐘 🦋 🌐 JIMM: 🐘 🦋 🌐 TODE: 🐘 🦋 🌐 FELI: 🐘 🦋 🌐 See you in the future! https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/076Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/feelingofcomputingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
    --------  
    2:11:38
  • A Case for Feminism in Programming Language Design by Felienne Hermans
    In the academic field of programming language research, there are a few prestigious conferences that you must present at to advance in your career. These conferences are rather selective about which presentations they'll accept. If your research work involves proving formal properties about a programming language, you'll have their ear. But if your work looks at, say, the human factors of language design, you might as well not bother applying — and thus, not bother pursuing that work in the first place. Why is the formalistic, systems-focused work elevated, and the human-focused work diminished? And what are the downstream consequences, the self-reinforcing feedback loops that come from this narrow focus? In this episode we discuss a paper by Felienne Hermans and Ari Schlesinger titled, A case for Feminism in Programming Language Design. It applies the lens of intersectional feminism to reveal a startling lack of "Yes, and…" in academic computer science, where valuable avenues of inquiry are closed off, careers are stifled, and people are unintentionally driven away from contributing to the field, simply because their passions and expertise don't conform to a set of invisible expectations. Through heartbreaking personal anecdotes and extensive supporting references, the paper makes the case that there's a lot of high-value greenfield work to be done, and people who would love to do it — but we will need to collectively identify, understand, and then fix a few broken incentives before it'll happen. Notes $ Patreon Polypad, dubbed the "best piece of education software for smartboards" by published academic Luke Wilson Or is it Mathigon? "Looks like a nice Desmos", opines enterprise sales expert Ivan Reese. Market💡Facts.ca Hedy, a multi-lingual programming environment for the classroom created by Felienne. Welcome to the TALK BLOC: Felienne Hermans at Onward! 2024: A case for Feminism in Programming Language Design Ivan and Alex Warth at LIVE 2024: Inkling Lu at LIVE 2024: Arroost Lu at Onward! 2024: Dialogs on Natural Code Discovering Your Software Umwelt by Rebecca Wirfs-Brock, Allen Wirfs-Brock, and Jordan Wirfs-Brock A New Cognitive Perspective on Simplicity in System and Product Design by FoC community member and previous bonus episode guest, Stefan Lesser Redressing the Balance: A Yin-Yang Perspective on Information Technology by FoC community member Konrad Hinsen Foremost among the contributions to society by Icebergs are their inspiration of the meme Alex McLean as in Insane in the Membrane FOUR FOUR Mary Shaw, previous guest Zachtronics make some hard puzzle games. Define Define, a really great video about that. Oh, you question toxic masculinity, yet you live within the gender binary? ! Send us email, especially if you're an avid listener who happens to work for a placement agency and knows an AI thought leader who has advised 5000 startups and would be a great fit for our show, share your ideas in the Slack, and: Eats: Mastodon • Website Shoots: Mastodon • Website Leaves: Mastodon • Website See you in the future! https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/75Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/feelingofcomputingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
    --------  
    2:04:08
  • Is the Whole Universe a Computer™?
    "Is the whole universe a computer?", ask Jack Copeland, Mark Sprevak, and Oron Shagrir in chapter 41 of the book The Turing Guide. They split this question in two, first asking whether the universe itself is a computer, then whether the universe could even be computed. These are lofty, unanswerable questions, sure, but they encroach on our territory — philosophy, automata, nonsense. So, in our usual reverent style and with attentive pacing, the three of us explore the paper, the questions, the answers they choose to highlight, and even share a few perfectly reasonable answers of our own. Links $ Patreon In no particular order: Carl Sagan What it means to be open was Lu's talk at Heart of Clojure Rudy Rucker Is the brain a digital computer? by John Searle The Plankth of time. C is Not a Low-Level Language by David Chisnall The Connection Machine!! Komgloverav… Komolgorov… Outer Worlds? Outer Wilds? The Witness Music featured in this episode: No! That's a spoiler. No way I'm telling you. ! Send us email, share your ideas in the Slack, and catch us while you still can: Carl: Mastodon • Website Jimmy: Mastodon • Website Lu: Mastodon • Website See you in the future! https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/74Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/feelingofcomputingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
    --------  
    2:12:30

More Technology podcasts

About Feeling of Computing

A romp through the field of computer programming, grapling with our history and wondering what should come next. A mix of deeply technical talk, philosophy, art, dark lore, and good takes. Hosted by Ivan Reese, Jimmy Miller, and Lu Wilson.
Podcast website

Listen to Feeling of Computing, The Last Invention and many other podcasts from around the world with the radio.net app

Get the free radio.net app

  • Stations and podcasts to bookmark
  • Stream via Wi-Fi or Bluetooth
  • Supports Carplay & Android Auto
  • Many other app features
Social
v7.23.9 | © 2007-2025 radio.de GmbH
Generated: 10/14/2025 - 5:04:32 AM