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Planetary Planning Podcast

Kim Carlotta von Schönfeld and Susa Eräranta
Planetary Planning Podcast
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  • Sound and Noise in a Planetary Future, with Edda Bild
    In this episode, Edda Bild shares insights on human and more-than-human sounds, and which of these are considered more positively, versus which tend to be considered “noise”. Edda currently works as post-doctoral research associate at the Institute for Work and Health in Toronto, Canada, where she focuses on topics around occupational health and safety, like the newcomer experience in the workplace, small businesses and psychological health and safety. She also continues her work as a post-doctoral soundscape researcher and an ambassador of the Sounds in the City team at McGill University. She works on the hearing modality, the broader urban sensory experience, and its implications for urban practice, and has now shifted focus to encouraging sound awareness and education. She is passionate about knowledge transfer and turning research into meaningful interventions and practices. In the episode, we discuss the difference between noise and sound, and which human and more-than-human sounds are more or less considered as noisy. Humans seem to tend to like hearing the sounds of other humans (though not all of their sounds), of birds chirping, and of various “urban waters”, while machines such as cars or construction are often considered only as noise (negative). However, as we discuss towards the end, there are also political policy decisions regarding for example which noises should be tolerated for public purposes even when they are not considered pleasant (e.g. public transportation versus private cars). Edda shares several examples of how sound matters in public spaces (including inside buildings and transportation), and how it is most commonly approached in planning: as noise, that is, as primarily problem. She shows how this makes sense, but that sound is also more complex than staying below 80 decibels to avoid noise, and that sound co-habitation must take many perspectives into account. She also shares some insights on the ways human sound has affected more-than-humans both in (urban) public spaces and under water (referring e.g. to the field of Bioacoustics, see reference below). We end on her take-aways for planners (see below) and on how the theme of sound, like most themes planners work with, have important political implications - e.g. in defining where which sounds are to be permitted, which beings protected from which noises, and so forth. Sound is political.Take-aways for planners, by Edda Bild* Place more emphasis on genuine communication: when you talk, make sure the messages are simple and / or straight-forward enough for the various audiences involved* But do not only talk. Good communication is also about keeping an “open ear”. That is: make sure to listen, be considerate and attempt to understand various perspectives. (For some hints for how to “listen” to more-than-humans, see for instance the episode with Emilija Vaselova or the one with Jonathan Metzger)* Sound is one more element on the list of many that planners need to look out for, but this is why collaborating cross-disciplinarily is key in planning.References and resourcesBild, E., Steele, D., & Guastavino, C. (2024). Supporting the Living Laboratory: A Literature Review of Montreal Sound-Related Research. Journal of Planning Literature, 08854122241266816. https://doi.org/10.1177/08854122241266816Corbin, A., & Corbin, A. (1986). The foul and the fragrant: Odor and the French social imagination. Harvard University Press. Di Croce, N., & Bild, E. (2024). How do urban policies shape atmosphere? A multimethod inquiry of the sonic environment. Urban Research & Practice, 17(3), 416–437. https://doi.org/10.1080/17535069.2023.2232344Mitchell, A. (2022) Bioacoustics: What nature’s sounds can tell us about the health of our world. Canadian Geographic.Ross, A. (2024) What is Noise? The New Yorker.Stamm, C., Bild, E., Tarlao, C. and Guastavino, C. (2024) ¿Por qué deberías preocuparte por lo sonoro? Instituto de Estudios Urbanos y Territoriales. Pontifica Universidad Católica de Chile.Steele, D., Bild, E., & Guastavino, C. (2023). Moving past the sound-noise dichotomy: How professionals of the built environment approach the sonic dimension. Cities, 132, 103974. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cities.2022.103974Thompson, E. A. (2008). The soundscape of modernity: Architectural acoustics and the culture of listening in America, 1900 - 1933 (1. paperback ed., [Nachdr.]). MIT Press.Trudeau, C., Steele, D., & Guastavino, C. (2020). A Tale of Three Misters: The Effect of Water Features on Soundscape Assessments in a Montreal Public Space. Frontiers in Psychology, 11, 570797. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.570797Other podcasts discussing Sound (as a key theme or on occasional episodes):* The Rest is Just Noise Podcast* Sound Matters Podcast* Crossing City Limits Podcast with episode with Edda on Quebec soundThanks for reading Planetary Planning! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit planetaryplanning.substack.com
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  • Logistics in a Planetary Context, with Subina Shrestha
    In this episode, Subina Shrestha, Postdoctoral Research Fellow at the Network for Equity in Sustainable Transition (CERC NEST) at the University of Toronto Scarborough in Canada, shares her insights about how the field of logistics is changing spaces, human relations, and more - and especially through the increasing dominance of more-than-human, or perhaps rather: less-than-human, digital technologies. This episode sheds important light on digital more-than-human dynamics that a Planetary Future must take into account. In many societies, especially among the financially wealthiest countries around the world, it has become taken for granted that any object should be available to us within days or even hours, even when it is not something that is normally available in our immediate surroundings. At the same time, many other places, the people in those places, are working hard for an economy that is nowhere near them and that they see little to no benefit from. And then there are the people working in transporting those objects, be it over long distances or for the least mile. As Subina shares with us, much of these logistics are dominated by a corporate objective of speed, efficiency and productivity. She argues that planning can and must play an important role in challenging those objectives in favour of more wellbeing-oriented values. This means that seeking a more-than-humanness in terms of technology and automation, as major corporations tend to do, should not be allowed to be achieved when these go to the detriment of human wellbeing - and perhaps also other more-than-human wellbeing, though we explore this less in this episode. Subina does also see the digital more-than-human world to offer many positive contributions, if one is careful to use them to that end, such as by enabling “platform cooperativism”.In this episode we touch on “cyborg jobs”, workers’ rights and solidarity networks, agency of consumers and local municipalities, the dominance of large corporations in the current planning and execution of logistics, the increasing dominance of less-than-human digital technologies in this, and what planners can do.Take-aways for planners, by Subina Shrestha:* Think about logistics in terms of human wellbeing perspectives - including consumers as well as workers* Focus on urban vitalism as the key objective in urban planning, meaning to aim to elevate wellbeing for everyone in the city* Think well about how digital tools can be used well, and avoid using them to the detriment of the local population. When thinking of people-centered planning, this should also include workers in logistics. And be sure to ask: whose interests are technological innovations serving, in both research and practice?References:Haarstad, H., Rosales, R., & Shrestha, S. (2024). Freight logistics and the city. Urban Studies, 61(1), 3–19. https://doi.org/10.1177/00420980231177265Mimes, C. (2021) Arriving Today. From Factory to Front Door -- Why Everything Has Changed About How and What We Buy. Harper Business. CityFreight projectAnd Antidote’s work, mentioned by Kim, for instance to find a way to support alternatives to Amazon, and to help consumers avoid Amazon. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit planetaryplanning.substack.com
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  • Finding Our Multiple Identities, and Our Agency, with Liz Challinor
    In this episode, we speak with Liz Challinor, researcher in anthropology at the Centre for Research in Anthropology (CRIA) of the New University of Lisbon, as well as fiction and poetry writer. She shares her reflections on categories along which we see others - and ourselves - and how it is often forgotten that we have multiple identities, when in fact this is crucial. In fact, creating connections between those multiple identities might be key. Although the more-than-human lens is not Liz’s field, it becomes clear that at least some of what she has studied among humans is likely to also count between humans and more-than-humans (in themselves categories that may better be transcended, perhaps). Liz highlights the a-historical and a-political approaches that have become more dominant in regards to people crossing borders, essentializing the question of identities and cultures of people often to harmful extents. She also points to how calling out a “crisis” (be it a refugee (or refuge?) crisis, a housing crisis, or a “polycrisis”) can make one feel without agency, hopeless, when in fact we humans have a lot of agency - as well as responsibility for the consequences we now witness. Perhaps as a way to connect our multiple identities with our agency, we go on to speak on the important role that various arts forms, and especially fiction and poetry, can have for bringing back some of the emotion and intuition - and some careful playfulness, too - that is involved in human relations, but that more academic or “scientific” or “rigour-based” approaches tend to reject. Perhaps there is a place for all these approaches, but writing is certainly a legitimate and perhaps even crucial one to maintain as part of our inquiries.Take-aways for planners, by Liz Challinor:* Recognize Planning as presence* Engage with Planning as not only about avoiding disruption, but rather also about being open to disruption, and knowing how to welcome it and realize what it’s bringingReferences:Challinor, E. (2018). "Cross-border citizenship: mothering beyond the boundaries of consanguinity and nationality". Ethnic and Racial Studies 41 1: 114-131. https://doi.org/10.1080/01419870.2017.1293278Challinor, E. (2019). When does difference matter? Border-generating categories in the lives of foreign nationals in northern Portugal. International Journal of Migration and Border Studies, 5(4), 308. https://doi.org/10.1504/IJMBS.2019.105811Challinor, E. (2022). Who Marks the Borders of the (Un)Known? Relational Reflexivity in the Production of a Play on Forced Mobility in Northern Portugal. In N. G. Ortega, & A. B. M. García (Eds.), Representing 21ST-Century Migration in Europe: Performing Borders, Identities and Texts (1st ed., pp. 208-223). Berghahn Books. https://doi.org/10.1515/9781800733817-014Challinor, E. (2024). Navigating through the Cracks of the State System: Shifting Spaces of Hope in the Portuguese Mobility Regime. Anthropological Quarterly 97(1), 95-124. https://dx.doi.org/10.1353/anq.2024.a923085Horgan, M. (2012). Strangers and Strangership. Journal of Intercultural Studies, 33(6), 607–622. https://doi.org/10.1080/07256868.2012.735110Maalouf, A. (2012). In the name of identity: Violence and the need to belong (B. Bray, Trans.). Arcade Publishing.Sacramento, O., Challinor, E., & Silva, P. G. (Eds.). (2020). Quest for Refuge. Reception Responses from the Global North. Edições Húmus. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit planetaryplanning.substack.com
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  • Cyborgs, humans, and more-than-humans, with António Ferreira
    This episode is a conversation with António Ferreira, multidisciplinary researcher and writer on themes as varied and interconnected as degrowth/post-growth, urban and regional planning, mobilities and transport, critical innovation and digitalisation studies, and more. António works as principal researcher at CITTA, Centre for Territory, Transports and Environment, at the University of Porto. In this episode, we focus on cyborgs, a topic António dives into in depth in one of the chapters of his recent book, Mobilities in a Turbulent Era. We discuss what cyborgs are, the extent to which they are more-than-human, less-than-human, or perhaps something else entirely. António gives us many examples of the cyborgs already within and among us, as well as the possibilities that could emerge in relation to cyborgs in future. We discuss kaleidoskopic ways of looking at the world (and problems within in) - as an alternative to feeling stuck in dilemma’s or always applying the same go-to “solution”. António applies some of this thinking when we discuss digitalisation more broadly, and how seeking digital solutions to any problem has become the go-to option that - by losing critical reflection about the why and how underlying it - has many hidden downsides. Of course, we also touch on the materiality of the cyborg and the digital, that brings another dimension to the critique of the human-nature binary that has been previously discussed in this podcast. Finally, António shares his take-aways from all this for Planetary Futures and Planetary Planning based on this conversation:Take-aways for planners (and others), by António Ferreira:* Humans in general and Planners in particular should seek more maturity in their decision structures and actions.* Let’s not “throw computers at the problem” assuming that “something should come out of it, right?” - think a bit further and more critically (and creatively?) about this* Protect children from excessive computer exposure, digital exposure and ciborgisation, before they are capable of making their own choices in this matter* All the above can help to have a planning education that is not about a ciborgisation process only because we cannot imagine an alternative* Less computers, less digitalisation, and more humanity in adressing complexityReferences mentioned during the episode:Ferreira, A. (2024) Mobilities in a Turbulent Era. Edward Elgar.Hine, D. (2023) At Work in the Ruins. Finding Our Place in the Time of Climate Crises and Other Emergencies. Chelsea Green.Sennett, R. (1970) The Uses of Disorder. Personal Identity and City Life. Verso Books.Daniel Schmachtenberger on the Multi-Polar Trap (see for example, here) The Karate Kid 1984 (Film)RoboCop 1987 (Film) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit planetaryplanning.substack.com
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  • Moving beyond human as well as urban exceptionalism, with Jamie Wang
    In this episode, we speak with Jamie Wang, urban environmental humanities scholar, editor and poet. She works as Research Assistant Professor in the Department of Literature and Cultural Studies at the Education University of Hong Kong, and is editor of the journal Feminist Review. Jamie has recently published the book Reimagining the More-Than-Human City. Stories from Singapore, and we discuss some of what she explores in the book, as well as her broader perspectives, inspiration, and some examples on more-than-human cities and the example of Singapore in particular.In this conversation, Jamie shares some key insights from her book, especially around the interrelations between the three core themes of eco-modernist theory, more-than-human studies, and future / futuring studies. Through this, Jamie helps de-center not only the human but also the urban that is so central to human thought and also to the Planning discipline nowadays. She furthermore gives special emphasis to the idea that more-than-human thinking is not equal to non-human, that is, that this lens does not flatten the still important relations between humans among themselves, but perhaps rather sharpens and complexifies our understanding of this also. In her book, Jamie seeks to use storytelling methods - inspired by Deborah Bert Rose and Tom van Doren who have also come up previously, for instance in the episode with Isabelle Doucet; see also our episode with Phoebe Wagner on Solarpunk storytelling. Through this approach, she argues that it becomes much more possible to speak of complexity and multiplicity, and to address planetary themes without losing sight of micro-narratives that are key for deeper understanding.Jamie also shares some examples from Singapore, such as concering its changing politics regarding green spaces, shifting from “garden city”, to “city in a garden”, to “city in nature”, and gives us a glimpse into how very particular politics and modernisation aspirations can shape a city over time, also as this city-state claims its place in global politics and global imaginaries. She highlights that solutions for more-than-human futures will most likely not be harmonious, that choices about inclusion and exclusion are inevitable, but can be much more transparent and considerate of all species (for those interested, this also links back nicely to our episode with Jonathan Metzger). Jamie shares some concrete examples of what this might look like, but also says much work is still needed, including the inclusion of multiple species in the visualisations of changing landscapes - which also means that the past, present, and future should be folded into one another when imagining futures, so that we can better perceive whose habitats are being prioritized, who is winning and who is losing.Take-aways for planners (jointly with others!), by Jamie Wang:* Accelerating discussions and action on environmental issues, co-existence, displacement, global capitalism, and related themes.* Think about the past and the present as imagined futures. See what had to be removed so that this could be, who is in it and who had to be removed. Also when imagining and imaging (creating images) about it.* Enable the public (including planners) to “imagining better”. In other words, creating conditions for imagination.* In the face of climate change, Planning probably needs to go beyond a mathematical issue, but take a more holistic view.References:Deborah Bird RoseEmily O’GormanNixon, R. (2013) Slow Violence and the Environmentalism of the Poor. Harvard University Press.Thom van DoorenWang, J. (2024) Reimagining the More-Than-Human City. Stories from Singapore. MIT Press. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit planetaryplanning.substack.com
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