The Church Lobby

“If we are to see a recovery of trust and integrity, it will demand a radical reorientation in how we form leaders, how we imagine success, and how we live our lives before God and one another.”
That’s a quote from Chuck DeGroat’s new book, Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age.
Karl Vaters talks with Chuck about how to identify some better ways to approach the concepts of success and character development. This is essential, but slow work, especially in an age that often pushes back against it.
Chuck is professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary. He has served as a pastor, has founded two church-based counseling centers, and is the author of several books, including the one he and Karl talk about in this episode.
Links:
Chuck’s X post about pastoral search requirements
ChuckDeGroat.net
Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse
The Worst Scandal I’ve Seen in 30 Years (from Chuck’s Substack)

Bonus Content Summary
Four Conditions for a Sacred Ripening, with Chuck DeGroat
Chuck DeGroat defines “ripening” as the slow, consistent work of Christian maturation. There are four key biblical conditions that must be met for this to be achieved, and in this short bonus material, Church walks us through them:
Safety
Eldering
Community
A Sacred Story

This is all from Chuck’s recent book, Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age.
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Karl Vaters and Dale Sellers have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that pastors are staying in their churches longer than ever before. The bad news is that pastors are aging and there aren’t as many young pastors coming in. This makes pastoral and church renewal more important than ever before.
Dale Sellers is the Executive Director of The Renewed Pastor, which is the new name and mission for what was the 95 Network. He and Karl talk about the moments of ongoing personal and ministry renewal that need to happen regularly, and about those larger transitional renewals that seem to come up about every seven years or so. Dale will also describe the one-year Renewed Pastor Pathway that utilizes the life experiences of pastoral coaches who have been through tough times themselves, and how you can utilize their expertise for the blessing and benefit of you, your family, and your ministry.
Links:
Why 95Network is Becoming The Renewed Pastor
The Renewed Pastor

Where to find Dale on social media:
Instagram: @DaleSellersSays
X: @DaleSellersSays
LinkedIn: Dale Sellers
Facebook: Dale Sellers

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What if you could use the hard work for the sermon you’ve already done, then leverage it for an even greater online impact? Well, you can. And it doesn’t take technical wizardry to pull it off.
Karl Vaters interviews Ed Stetzer and Corey Alderin about how tech has become so user-friendly that it can be used in ways that used to be available only to large churches.
Ed has been a leading voice for the evangelical church for many years, and he’s an avid supporter of small churches. Corey is the CEO and founder of Sermon Shots.
As any conversation with Ed Stetzer tends to do, this conversation leads down a few fascinating rabbit trails, as well, including:
How to use tech so that it doesn’t interfere with the in-person worship experience
The importance of using online video to make a first-time visitor feel more welcome
How online algorithms have changed the way people see your content

And more.
Links:
Sermon Shots
Karl Vaters and Ed Stetzer talk in the van

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Is online church, real church? I used to say online church is real church, it’s just not enough church. But I’ve changed my mind.
Live streaming came into our lives in a big way in 2020, and now after living with it for six years, we can look at it with a little more wisdom and objectivity.
In this solo podcast I talk about how and why I changed his mind about church live streams, plus some better ways to approach it, including:
Why online church is not church, it’s content
How we may be sending a bad message about church with our online experience
How the presence of a live-stream camera affects the pastor and the people in the room
How it changes the way we structure our services
How to give everyone a better online experience without live streaming

And more.
Links:
Maybe You Shouldn’t Live-Stream Your Church Service, with Tim Fox (Ep 62)
We’re All Televangelists Now (11 Ways To Avoid The Pitfalls Of Live Stream)
Karl Vaters on the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast
Contact Page for Karl Vaters

Karl Vaters interviews pastor Ryan Lokkesmoe about a problem many pastors are facing in their churches, even if they haven’t been able to identify it yet. Many of our church members are accidental pagans.
Karl and Ryan talk about how so many ancient pagan practices have made their way into many of our lives today—without us knowing it, turning many good Christians into accidental pagans. This affects their lives, how they act in church, what they expect of it, and most importantly, how they view God and their relationship with him.
Ryan is the lead pastor of Community Church at Lake Wylie, a congregation in the Charlotte area, and is the author of several books, including his newest, Accidental Pagans: Untangling the Roots of Our Fears about God — and Discovering Who He Really Is.
Links:
Accidental Pagans: Untangling the Roots of Our Fears about God — and Discovering Who He Really Is
RyanLokkesmoe.com
Team Leadership: Lessons from the Apostle Paul, with Ryan Lokkesmoe (The Church Lobby, Ep 046)
NETBible.org