The Church Lobby

Have you ever gone to a church growth conference and been told “all healthy things grow?”Karl Vaters talks with Jeff Hoglen about what’s happening behind that idea, and why it can be a problem for a lot of pastors and churches. The conversation is based on an article Jeff wrote, called “The Church Growth Lie No One Talks About.”Karl and Jeff talk about what that lie is, why we keep believing it, and what to do, instead.They also discuss alternative ways to look at church health and growth, including:How growth feels more like farming than fireworksHow most real growth is slow, often invisible, and always hardHow the slow seasons don’t have to discourage youHow to deepen before you broadenHow to pursue health over hypeThe importance of celebrating the small stuffAnd more.Links:The Church Growth Lie No One Talks AboutChurchPlanting.comCanvaChatGPTTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the shift that’s happened over the last decade or so in how people perceive institutions, especially the institutional church.In this conversation they talk about how the rise of radical individualism has replaced once-trusted institutions, why a distrust in institutions is problematic, and why institutions—especially the church—still matter.Brad is a church planter and pastor of The Table Church in Lafayette, CO. He’s also the author of, The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical Individualism. This conversation also includes an overview of the reasons behind the loss of institutionalism, and especially five Church Defeaters:Church Defeater 1: Spiritual PragmatismChurch Defeater 2: The Sacred SelfChurch Defeater 3: Counterfeit InstitutionsChurch Defeater 4: (Un)Civil religionsChurch Defeater 5: Virtuous Victimhood(CONGRATULATIONS to Brad on his book being named Book of the Year by Christianity Today magazine!)Links:The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical IndividualismMere Orthodoxy BONUS TALKOur Role in the Grand Narrative of Scripture, with Brad EdwardsKarl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the importance of understanding the metanarrative of scripture as a foundational teaching for life and faith.In particular, their conversation addresses two storytelling terms. First, Main Character Syndrome, which helps us understand and clarify the dangers of the hyper-individualism of our current age. Second, the MacGuffin, a term coined by movie director Alfred Hitchcock that helps us see what our role in God’s story really is. Links:The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical IndividualismTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Do you know how to spot if someone in your congregation has a gambling problem? Once it’s been spotted or confessed, do you know what to do?Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about one of the fastest-growing addictions in the world, including:How is gambling defined?Why does it have such a strong grip on some people?Who is most likely to be addicted?How to get helpAnd moreDonald Lichi is vice president emeritus of Emerge Counseling Ministries, and author of the article, Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! in Influence magazine. Links:Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! (article)Emerge Counseling MinistriesBroken Windows of the Soul: A Pastor and Christian Psychologist Discuss Sexual Sins and the Prescription to Heal ThemYouVersion Bible App Bonus ChatWhat to Do if You’re a Pastor with a Gambling Problem, with Donald LichiPastors are not immune to the temptations of gambling and other addictions.In this short conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about how to recognize those tendencies in yourself, and what to do if you’re trapped in it. They also talk about who you should/should not share these problems with, and how to engage in preventative measures. Links:Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! (article)Emerge Counseling MinistriesBroken Windows of the Soul: A Pastor and Christian Psychologist Discuss Sexual Sins and the Prescription to Heal ThemTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Jeff Forrey about grief, recovery, and how your church can help people, both inside and outside the congregation, deal with grief in healthy ways.Grief has no rules, but there are healthy ways through it. And churches—small churches especially—are uniquely suited to provide real comfort for people in these difficult seasons of loss.Karl and Jeff talk about some important principles, including:Why do we need help with grief?What kind of damage can we experience if we don’t deal with grief properly?What's a typical time frame for experiencing grief?What common mistakes are made in responding to grievers?And moreJeff Forrey oversees GriefShare, which can come alongside your church to equip you to be a resource for people in need.Links:GriefShareChurch InitiativeDivorceCare Session 1 PreviewGriefShare on FacebookGriefShare on InstagramGriefShare on YouTube CCEF.orgGrieving Room, by Leanne FriesenThere is no bonus material for this episode.

In recent decades, parachurch organizations have carved out an important space in church life and ministry.Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about why it’s important for ministers to take a closer look at what the church is, what parachurch organizations bring to the mix, and how we can move forward more missionally, even as the emphasis on institutions diminishes.Dr. Ward is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She’s also the author of Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension, which is the basis for this conversation. Links:Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional ExtensionBeyond the Local Church: How Apostolic Movements Can Change the World, by Sam MetcalfThe Church and the Parachurch: An Uneasy Marriage (A Critical Concern Book), by Jerry E. WhitePolycentric Leadership: Church as a Discipleship Movement, with Dan White Jr. (The Church Lobby, Ep 039)Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty, by Angie WardBONUS TALKThe Five Advantages Of Parachurch Organizations, with Dr. Angie WardEvery parachurch ministry needs to flow from and/or point to the local church. So why do we need parachurch ministries, at all?In this bonus conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about the five benefits that churches can gain from partnering with parachurch ministries in productive ways:ReachSpecializationLay involvementPromoting unityTo call the local church to mission Links:Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional ExtensionTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.