The Church Lobby

Karl Vaters interviews Todd Wilson about some of the lessons that we need to learn when we look back at the Church Growth Movement.
Todd is the co-founder and founding CEO of Exponential, so he critiques the Church Growth Movement as one of its leaders. This gives him a unique perspective we need to hear.
Karl and Todd talk about the content of Todd’s new book, How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement.
They cover topics such as:
How the modern church has adopted a Consumer-Driven Operating System
How Donald McGavran’s Church Growth methods and language were co-opted
Where the “church as business” model came from
What must come next
And more.

Links:
How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement (Free e-book w registration)
How Did We Get Here? Examining 70 Years of the Church Growth Movement (On Amazon)
Multipliers: Leading Beyond Addition (Free e-book)
Email Todd at Todd@multipliers.org
Techsoup.org
The Unexpected Origins of the Church Growth Movement, with Dr. Gary McIntosh (The Church Lobby, Ep 027)
De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next (by Karl Vaters)

Bonus Content Summary
12 Dilemmas Within the Church’s Prevailing Operating System, with Todd Wilson
In Todd Wilson’s book, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward, he refers to the current church systems as functioning under a faulty operating system, and he describes 12 dilemmas within that system.
In this subscriber-only content, Karl Vaters talks with Todd about several of these dilemmas.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

“What's wrong with being just a normal church?” That’s the question at the center of Thomas Austin’s song, Normal Church.
In this episode, Karl Vaters interviews Thomas Austin about the content of his song, including where the idea for it came from, some of the criticism he’s received for it, and what message he’s trying to convey through it.
Some of what comes through in this conversation includes:
Thomas’ love for the church
His (and Karl’s) desire to see normal churches not try to be something they’re not
The problems that happen when normal churches try to copy the megachurch model
The desire for authenticity among younger generations

And more.
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Discontent is a tricky monster. It’s so easy to spot it in others, but easy to overlook in ourselves.
Karl Vaters interviews pastor Chris Maxwell about what contentment is not (laziness or mediocrity), what it is (an inner peace), what causes so much discontentment, why contentment is essential for healthy lives and ministries, and so much more.
This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.
Bonus Content Summary
How to Practice Contentment In Our Calling, with Chris Maxwell
Karl Vaters talks with Chris Maxwell about 6 simple steps we can practice to overcome discontent and embrace the inner peace of contentment, including”
Redefine Success
Embrace Limits
Celebrate the Ordinary
Stay Curious, Not Competitive
Let Joy Lead You
Stay With God, Not Just the Goal

This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.
Links:
Contentment: What You’re Searching for May Already Be Yours.
The Bible Project

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Kevin Foster is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, a church that made a radical shift in emphasis several years ago when the brokenness of the people in their lower income city led them to run to the brokenness.
Karl and Kevin talk about:
Redefining success in ministry
How young leaders are not rejecting ministry—they’re rejecting the narrow definitions they’ve seen modeled
A new way to look at church metrics
How to finance ministry to broken people

and a lot more.
Links
Run to the Brokenness: How Your Church Can Be the Center of Your Community
RuntotheBrokenness.com

Bonus Content
How to Overcome the Occupational Hazards of Ministry, with Kevin Foster
Karl Vaters talks with Kevin Foster about the hazards of ministry that so many pastors experience, and how to overcome them.
They include:
1) Becoming a Casualty of Others’ Brokenness
2) Leading Through the Tension of Frustration
3) Comparing Yourself to Other Churches
Kevin is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, and the author of Run to the Brokenness: How Your Church Can Be the Center of Your Community.
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Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about some massive changes that are happening, and how the looming pastoral shortage will affect everything about the way churches function in the next generation or two.
Based on Sam’s article, The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff, this conversation covers what caused this crisis along with some hopeful solutions including the rise of bi- and co-vocational ministry, opportunities for interim pastor ministry, the importance of planning your pastoral succession, and so much more.
Links:
The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff (article)
Church Answers
Church Answers University certification program
Calendly
KarlVaters.com/OnDeck

Bonus Content
How To Prepare Your Church for Your Pastoral Retirement, with Sam Rainer
Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about what you can do prepare your church if you’re a pastor who’s set to retire soon, including the following three proactive steps:
Evaluate your leadership pipeline
Create flexibility in your staffing model.
Honor and utilize experienced pastors.

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Mentioned in this episode:
On Deck Landing Page