The Church Lobby

Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about some massive changes that are happening, and how the looming pastoral shortage will affect everything about the way churches function in the next generation or two.
Based on Sam’s article, The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff, this conversation covers what caused this crisis along with some hopeful solutions including the rise of bi- and co-vocational ministry, opportunities for interim pastor ministry, the importance of planning your pastoral succession, and so much more.
Links:
The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff (article)
Church Answers
Church Answers University certification program
Calendly
KarlVaters.com/OnDeck

Bonus Content
How To Prepare Your Church for Your Pastoral Retirement, with Sam Rainer
Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about what you can do prepare your church if you’re a pastor who’s set to retire soon, including the following three proactive steps:
Evaluate your leadership pipeline
Create flexibility in your staffing model.
Honor and utilize experienced pastors.

Mentioned in this episode:
On Deck Landing Page

Prayer is a foundation of a healthy Christian life and church. Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about four strategic ways his church prays that can help any church lay a more solid foundation for health.
The foundation of this conversation is a talk Chris gives to pastors, titled 4 Ways Small Churches Can Grow in Prayer.
Sunday Intercessory Prayer
Prayer Services
Prayerwalking
A new way to take prayer requests

This last point comes straight from the Bible using the for/that method. It can make your church prayer request times feel less like gossip and more like the time of connection and intercession they’re meant to be.
Chris Paavola is a pastor in Battle Creek Michigan who has written and spoken extensively about prayer, including Pray What You See: A Five-Week Prayerwalk Challenge.
Bonus Content
One Statement, One Question: The Power of a Simple Witness in a Complicated World, with Chris Paavola
Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about how the resurrection of Jesus changed (and still changes) everything, especially to cut through the clutter by bringing unbelievers into the real reason we believe what we believe.
One Statement: “That’s not why I believe.”
One Question: “What do you think happened on Easter morning?”
Links:
PrayForYourChurch.com
@chris_paavola on Instagram
@chris_paavola on X (Twitter)
Using AI To Find Great Sermon Illustrations, with Darrell Stetler (Ep 111)
Books:
Pray What You See: A Five-Week Prayerwalk Challenge
25 Prayers to Christmas: Praying through the Christmas story
52 Prayers for Your Church: Because there's so much to pray
The Seven Symbols of Ash: An Interactive Ash Wednesday Experience
Less for More: Seven fasts in seven weeks for more of Jesus
40 Prayers to Launch: 40 prayers to help people pray for your church plant’s launch
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Karl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about three important subjects: First, they talk about the new world of the “side hustle” culture, and why it can be an answer for pastors and churches to do more ministry with less stress.
Second, the importance of creating margin in our life, our finances, our time, our energy, and our families.
Third, Tim introduces us to the importance of time away from the church, the value of travel, and how to do this well without adding an additional financial burden, through the lessons he's learned about travel hacking.
Tim is the pastor of Restored Church in Wilkes-Barre, PA, and runs the Travel Multiplier website.
Links:
Travel Multiplier
Seats.aero
Point.me
The Church Lobby, Ep 86 with Tim Walker

There is no Bonus Content for this episode.
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Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn and Dr. James N. Sells about the state of mental and emotional care in our culture, and how churches are uniquely situated to alleviate these needs in healthy, life-giving ways.
The conversation focuses on the CARE strategy (Coordinated Attention, Restoration, and Encouragement), and how churches of any size can be better equipped to help, starting with renewing friendships, training a CARE coordinator, and more, based on the content of their book, When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis, which was named one of Karl’s top books of the year for 2025.
Links:
When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis
CARE Pyramids Illustrations
My Top Nonfiction Books Of 2025
When Hurting People Come to Church (Free first chapter)
The Church Cares Initiative
The Church Cares Kit
Culture Making: Recovering Our Creative Calling (by Andy Crouch)

Bonus Content
Three Key People Every Church Needs to Help Hurting People, with Shaunti Feldhahn & James N. Sells
Your church doesn’t need a licensed counselor to help people with emotional needs. Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn & Dr. James N. Sells about the three key people every church should have in place to help the hurting people who come to every church.
This conversation is based on the content of their book, When Hurting People Come to Church: How People of Faith Can Help Solve the Mental Health Crisis, which was named one of Karl’s top books of the year for 2025.
To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Peyton Jones about the severe need for our churches to become better at the main command Jesus gave His church: making disciples.
Peyton is the author of several books, including the newly released, Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples, which is the basis for this conversation.
The stats are troubling. In a recent survey, pastors acknowledged that discipleship is the aspect of church ministry that they do least well. And when church members are surveyed, only 23 percent of Christians say they were ever discipled one-on-one.
Peyton is a church planter and church planting specialist who is tackling this crisis head on. In his new book, Peyton uses the disciple-making pattern from the life of Jesus to describe the Discipology Flywheel, where three essential elements come together:
Time—Where Disciples Are Formed
Teaching—Where Disciples Are Trained
Tactics—Where Disciples Are Sent

Links:
Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples
Church Planting For Everyone, with Peyton Jones (Podcast Ep 021)
Church Plantology: The Art and Science of Planting Churches
Few Pastors Believe Discipleship Tops Their Churches’ Efforts (article)
The State of Discipleship (article)

Bonus Content Summary
The SHALOM Star: Six Aspects of Life that Find Balance as God Permeates Them, with Peyton Jones
Karl Vaters talks with Peyton Jones about Peyton’s acronym for balanced Christian living, based on the word and the concept of Shalom. From the content of Peyton’s new book, Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples.
Spirit: Your soul’s connection to God
Honor: The areas of life you steward
Affections: Your family and friendships
Learning: Your intellect and creativity
Others: Your allies on mission
Mental: Your emotional well-being

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