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164. Steve and Mel – A Lost Dog
In this episode, we listen in on a DMM (Disciple-Making Movement) training session in North Queensland with Steve and Mel Behrens. They share their journey into DMM and what drives them: a deep heart for the lost. The Behrens are practitioners and catalysts in Far North Queensland. They’ve seen fruit among Indigenous communities, everyday Aussies in various contexts, and returned soldiers. Enjoy listening as Steve and Mel share during their recent Cairns training. A Lost Dog Steve shares how he was raised in the Western Province of PNG, later moving to Australia where he met and married Mel—who also carried a strong passion for the lost. They began as youth leaders and saw some fruit, but they were discontent when comparing it to what they read in the Book of Acts. Then something shifted.Mel tells a story about searching for their lost dog in a crocodile-breeding mangrove area. In that moment, God spoke to them:“You are willing to lay your lives down to find this lost dog but what about my lost children?”That moment marked a turning point. The call of God was clear: to seek the lost. But they began asking, “What’s the best way to do this?”They soon realised that the mission wasn’t just about making disciples, but making disciple-makers. This led them to movements. They began listening to what God was already doing and found themselves needing to let go of preconceived ideas and ‘baggage’ in order to embrace DMM.Their vision now is to see movements birthed—lost people coming into the Kingdom across North Queensland, into PNG, and beyond to the nations. Passion Ignites Passion Steve explains that God’s passion ignites passion in us. Often as Christians, we feel passionate but don’t know what to do with it—and we settle. But our hearts must remain fertile. He challenges us with a reflection from the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 28:16-20):“Where is our heart at? Is it in good soil? Are we reproducing? We need to make sure the soil of our heart remains fertile…How do we make the soil [of our hearts] good again? We go to Jesus and surround ourselves with likeminded people. As a disciple-maker, this is our core.” (Steve) When Passion and Strategy Come Together Addition vs. Multiplication Mel shares the paradigm shift she and Steve underwent: moving from addition to multiplication of disciples. They illustrate this through a simple ‘build-up tiggy’ tag game.“There are people in our lives that even the best evangelists or preachers can’t reach. There are people in our networks who only we can ‘tag’.” (Mel)Mel explains how starting with 30 people each reaching 30 more over 30 years results in 900 people—addition. But beginning with just two people who each multiply yearly over 30 years could reach over 1 billion—multiplication.“So wherever you find yourself, maybe in a small country town or a big city, and you are lonely asking the question ‘where do I start?’… just grab someone else. Multiplication can start with two people.” (Mel) Current Reality in North Queensland In North Queensland, for every church that is planted, five are closing down. Steve and Mel highlight the urgency of recognising the spiritual climate. Yet Jesus didn’t just add—he multiplied. He modelled this for his disciples and commissioned them in Matthew 28:16–20. Once again they draw attention to the final soil in the Parable of the Sower—the one that multiplies. That’s the soil Jesus is calling us to be today. People of peace Luke 10:6 shows how Jesus sent out his disciples to find ‘people of peace’. These people are the ones we are called to pour into. They are spiritually open, hungry, and ready to share. They often become gateways to entire communities.Biblical examples of people of peace include:• The Woman at the Well (John 4:1–42)• The Demoniac (Mark 5:1–20)• The Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:16–36)• Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1–10)• Cornelius (Acts 10)• Lydia (Acts 16:11–15, 40)• Levi (Luke 5:27–32)• Nathanael (John 1:45–51)• Man w...
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163. What Actually Starts Movements? With Emanuel Prinz, Part 2
In this second part of conversation with Emanuel Prinz—movement practitioner, researcher, and author of What Actually Starts Movements—we go deeper into what truly fuels lasting spiritual movements. While many focus on methods and tools, Emanuel invites us to look upstream—to the hearts and lives of the leaders God uses to spark and sustain movements. At the core of this episode are two key character traits Emanuel and his team have identified in effective movement catalysts: Hunger for God and Radical Learning. These two qualities, he argues, are not just common traits—they actually predict a leader’s growth trajectory and long-term fruitfulness. 1. Hunger for God This is more than emotion—it’s a daily, disciplined pursuit of knowing and loving God deeply, often expressed through rich spiritual practices. It’s the foundation from which expectant faith, love, intercession, and boldness flow. 2. Radical Learning This is a posture of humility and curiosity. Movement leaders actively seek feedback, embrace failure, and adapt. Their teachability enables continual growth in ministry competence and spiritual maturity—even through seasons of disappointment. Together, these traits mark a sharp contrast between catalytic leaders who continue to grow—and others who, though initially gifted, plateau or decline over time. We also explore: The depth of prayer vs. the duration of prayer—what really matters? How effective catalysts listen to God and pray with faith for fruit Why spiritual movements are possible in any society—even in the West The significance of the 2.5% who are spiritually open in every community The importance of forming small, agile catalytic teams with trust, clarity, and complementary gifting Learning to discern the few essential things God is calling us to each day—rather than being overwhelmed by busyness Emanuel reflects on the internal battles many leaders face and the need to give greater attention to the heart of the practitioner. Looking ahead: Emanuel shares his vision to equip 50,000 catalytic leaders to reach unreached people groups and his hope for the future—rooted in the patience of the Father and the promise that the Kingdom will reach all nations. 🎧 Whether you're a pioneer, leader, or simply someone longing to see God move in new ways—this episode will encourage you to slow down, go deeper, and hold onto the Father’s hand. "Hold onto the Father’s hand every moment of your life. Remind yourself that the Father is with you. This is a huge confidence booster. It changes everything." – Emanuel Prinz Resources of Emanuel’s Check out Emanuel's brand new book and INSTANT #1 BESTSELLER: What Actually Starts Movements: https://www.amazon.com.au/What-Actually-Starts-Movements-Multiplication-ebook/dp/B0F5XVPLJG See his previous title Movement Catalysts - https://www.amazon.com.au/Movement-Catalysts-Profile-apostolic-leader-ebook/dp/B0BHKY4845/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SPOQ65CAMV6P&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ndBDLQL1zWRXn8DesD5rIw.aDuCHLoNskkVeq8j0yzNn-utD8sB1rQKGlnYSEqiXkQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=movement+catalysts+emanuel+prinz&qid=1748485488&s=digital-text&sprefix=movement+catalysts+emanuel+prinz,digital-text,223&sr=1-1 Subscribe to his blog and podcast - https://emanuelprinz.substack.com/ You can find out more about Emanuel's ministry and his services to help boost movements at: www.catalyticleadership.info
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162. What Actually Starts Movements? With Emanuel Prinz, Part 1
In this two-part series, Dave sits down with Emanuel Prinz—movement researcher, author, and experienced practitioner who has witnessed God birth a disciple-making movement in a remote part of Sudan, resulting in thousands of new believers and hundreds of churches. Emanuel is not only a pioneer on the ground but also a global researcher, having studied 147 movements worldwide, analyzing over 32,000 data points to understand what God uses to spark multiplication. The findings are captured in his latest book, What Actually Starts Movements. In This Episode (Part 1): Emanuel’s Journey to Movement Work From intellectual belief to his calling to an unengaged Muslim people group in Sudan. Learning through a 'reverse-engineering' of movements: discovering how to work with key influences and then learning the 'what' and 'how' to share. Discovery Through Obedience and Prayer Wrestling in prayer for clarity on God’s heart for a resistant people group. A pivotal dream that directed him to a specific region in Sudan. Vital Practices for Movement Breakthrough Compassion ministry: Meeting felt needs and changing perceptions. Radiating spirituality: Story-based Bible discovery before Discovery Bible Study (DBS) even had a name. Focusing on oral learners and inductive questions that lead to personal discovery. The Importance of the Catalyst God uses many methods, but there is a surprising consistency in the type of person He uses. Emanuel's research shifts our focus from just methods to the qualities and competencies of catalytic leaders. Movements cannot be manufactured—but we can grow into the kind of people God delights to use. “God uses different methods to start movements. Methods do matter. But it’s not just one method [that God uses]. God uses a particular kind of person” 🌊 A Tipping Point in History Emanuel shares these staggering global insights in the first chapter of his book: From 15,000 (1995) to 115 million new disciples involved in movements today 8+ million new churches Movements now represent 1.4% of the world’s population God is creating a wave in our time—the question is, how can we join Him? 🙏 Final Encouragement from Emanuel “Frame your pursuit of movement as a pursuit of God. Movement is secondary. My first ambition each day is to say, ‘Father, let’s live this day together.’ Don’t resign yourself to thinking movements can’t happen where you are. Instead, ask daily, ‘Father, where are you at work and how can I join you?’” 🎧 Stay Tuned for Part 2 – where Emanuel dives deeper into leadership traits, multiplication principles, and how anyone can grow into the kind of person God uses. Resources of Emanuel’s: 📘 Grab the Book:Check out Emanuel's brand new book and INSTANT #1 BESTSELLER: What Actually Starts Movements: https://www.amazon.com.au/What-Actually-Starts-Movements-Multiplication-ebook/dp/B0F5XVPLJG See his previous title: Movement Catalysts: https://www.amazon.com.au/Movement-Catalysts-Profile-apostolic-leader-ebook/dp/B0BHKY4845/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SPOQ65CAMV6P&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ndBDLQL1zWRXn8DesD5rIw.aDuCHLoNskkVeq8j0yzNn-utD8sB1rQKGlnYSEqiXkQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=movement+catalysts+emanuel+prinz&qid=1748485488&s=digital-text&sprefix=movement+catalysts+emanuel+prinz,digital-text,223&sr=1-1 Subscribe to his blog and podcast - https://emanuelprinz.substack.com/ You can find out more about Emanuel's ministry and his services to help boost movements at - www.catalyticleadership.info
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161. Sam Turner – A Vision for a New Zealand Wildfire
In this episode, Dave reconnects with Sam Turner, a passionate disciple-maker from Northland, New Zealand. Sam shares his journey of faith, family, and a God-given vision to see New Zealand and the nations ignited for Jesus. From the UK to Western Australia Sam’s move to Exmouth, WA, became a pivotal time of spiritual awakening (not to mention meeting his wife). He shares how a simple invitation to an Indigenous family for a meal blossomed into something deeply transformative. Sam met his German wife in WA. Married for just 3.5 years, they already had five children, including twins. Ministry isn’t just Sam’s calling—it’s a family mission. A Prodigal’s Return Throughout his young adults years, Sam sensed a persistent nudge from God, with a constant inner voice saying, “have more faith in me.” This quiet yet powerful prompting drew him back to Jesus. He immersed himself in Scripture—reading through the Bible multiple times in just a year—and was deeply moved by God's unwavering pursuit and faithfulness. The Move to New Zealand Sam’s wife, passionate about permaculture, prompted the family’s move to NZ. Arriving with a burdened heart for what they saw as a "fatherless nation," they connected with a local church, and Sam became a pastor. Vision of the Matchbox However a divine dissatisfaction stirred in Sam’s heart. He had a vision: a match striking a box, igniting flames that spread across a map of New Zealand and onto other continents. God was calling him to not hinder the Spirit and to teach the Word unapologetically. Discovering DMM Through a testimony of the power of prayer in Africa and the appearance of a Discovery Bible Study (DBS) sheet, Sam discovered the potential of Disciple Making Movements (DMM). Reading Contagious Disciple Making (by David and Paul Watson) confirmed his direction, and a team began to form. “DMM is just a word we use to describe what God is doing.” – DMM Leader Shifting Paradigms Sam emphasises that DMM is not a method but Jesus’ model which continued throughout the book of Acts. This led Sam to re-evaluate the Great Commission and how teaching must be centred on obedience to Jesus, including the making of disciple-makers. Transformation Stories From drug dealers becoming disciples to gang members walking away from crime, Sam shares powerful stories of transformation. Social change follows spiritual obedience with families not just individuals being reached. Sam also shares about his 12-year-old son who began a DBS with his friends. This sparked a new ministry—Kids for Kids—led by Sam’s wife, where children are now discipling other children. Persistent Dissatisfaction Despite the fruit, Sam is still hungry for more. He sees DMM as a key to global transformation and longs to see a multiplying movement across New Zealand and beyond. “Culture has moved, but the church hasn’t kept up.” Sam challenges the traditional mindset of church, calling for a return to the Spirit-led, disciple-making patterns of the New Testament. A Word of Encouragement Sam leaves us with a challenge and an encouragement: “We are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do.” – Ephesians 2:10 Reflective Questions: What desires has God placed on your heart? Who in your sphere of influence is He calling you to reach? God has prepared the works—He’s simply looking for a willing heart to say "yes". Check out more of Sam's resources by visiting his website, disciplemakingmovement.com.
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160. Mike Porteous – Keeping It Simple
In this episode, Dave catches up with Mike Porteous while connecting with the Praxeis team and disciple-makers in New Zealand. Mike is a seasoned missions and church leader who has embraced a Disciple-Making Movement (DMM) paradigm—both locally and as far afield as Zambia. He shares his journey, key insights, and encouragement to keep disciple-making simple and Spirit-led. Mike’s Journey From a farming background, Mike had a powerful encounter with God at 21 that launched him into decades of mission work—from the Philippines in the '70s to serving with groups including YWAM since 1980. In the early 1990s, while on staff at what is now Gracecity Church, Mike’s hunger for real and lasting mission impact grew. Introduced to DMM through others and inspired by David and Paul Watson’s book Contagious Disciple Making, Mike knew this was a path he needed to pursue. What's Happening Now? Mike’s DMM work has expanded into Zambia through a connection with a Sri Lankan man working there. Though 90% of Zambians are churchgoers, transformation was lacking. But through simple DBS tools, real change is taking root. Today, three DBS streams are multiplying, and Mike continues coaching leaders to sustain and grow the movement. Back in New Zealand Despite initial slow traction, Mike’s persistence in starting DBS groups has led to surprising breakthroughs. One key moment came during a Sunday night training north of Auckland—attended by Sam Turner, who’s now seeing movement among gang communities. Multiplication is happening, and Sam is running far beyond what he could do himself.* Key Shifts in Mike’s Thinking Discovery over Teaching – Moving from telling to facilitating, Mike has learned to trust God to reveal His Word through others. Simple Tools for Equipping – He’s passionate about helping people uncover their God-given purpose and equipping them with tools that multiply through simplicity. Challenges Prayer – Building prayer teams and rhythms that moves people from a place of conviction in prayer to seeing transformation. Leadership Development – Particularly in Zambia, where structure is needed for lasting depth in an over-evangelised context. Discernment – In New Zealand, Mike is asking: Who is the Spirit highlighting to invest in? Final Encouragement Mike reminds us of two things: “The key people are probably already in your orbit....We tend to complicate things. Keep it super simple.” *Hear more of the stories of God moving amongst gang members in the north of New Zealand at the end of this podcast.
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