Do You Even Lit?

"In such a crisis as this, some women begin to hate."

Let's go baby, things are getting steamy.  Rich isn't sure if he's turned on or terrified by Dorothea, Cam can't figure out whether he'd take blood money, and Ben is torn about whether marrying a psychopath is worth it if she's a hottie. 

The middle section of this 800-page whopper is a tournament of injured pride. Casaubon exits early, Will (stupidly?) can't take or give a hint, Rosamund becomes Lydgate's worst nightmare, and Fred ... somehow fumbles his way back into credibility?? 

Question of the ep: Is Mary Garth a stand in for George Eliot who, as it happens, was described by Henry James as "magnificently ugly, deliciously hideous." 

Listener mail: a non-native English speaker writes in to say Cam's sentences are hard to follow. Cam accepts the feedback with unusual grace.

Full transcript for this episode (and every episode) is available at doyouevenlit.com, where you can filter and search by key ideas, authors, etc.

(00:00:00) fiction as thought experiment (or: anti-thought experiment?)
(00:07:44) Dorothea's arc: the crisis of rejection
(00:18:00) Will Ladislaw in the vicinity
(00:26:23) Bulstrode's pawnbroker past revealed
(00:30:51) would you take the blood money?
(00:37:40) Featherstone's will surprise — enter Rigg
(00:44:45) Fred finds his feet with Caleb Garth
(00:47:56) Farebrother's impossible magnanimity
(00:51:36) is Mary Garth a George Eliot stand-in?
(00:55:03) Lydgate and Rosamund: the marriage goes off a cliff
(00:59:40) the sexual politics of Lydgate's mistake
(01:06:05) listener mail: Cam gets roasted

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Next up 

- Finish Middlemarch 

- ???

For our big summer read we're cracking into Middlemarch, the 1871 doorstopper written by Mary Ann Evans under her pen name George Eliot.

This chat covers the first 30 chapters. Not a whole lot has happened so far but it's a very cosy read.

On Eliot and Tolstoy: which way does the influence go? How does this compare with our beloved Anna Karenina?

Worst honeymoon ever: did we buy Dorothea and Casaubon as a couple? how were age-gap relationships treated in ye olden days? Did they even bone? And if girls like Dorothea exist in real life, where might we find them today?

Lydgate and Rosamond: who he will vote for as chaplain at the new hospital? Tyke or Farebrother? The stakes are higher than they might first appear.

Fred and the Garths: a charming failson coasting on a rich uncle's dangled inheritance. We debate whether every heir ought to be lightly humiliated before they're allowed to inherit.

Plus, from the listener mailbag: have the boys ever read a book by a black person?

Full transcript for this episode (and every episode) is available at doyouevenlit.com, where you can filter and search by key ideas, authors, etc.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00:00) the guardian's #1 novel, aka English Anna Karenina
(00:10:40) Dorothea as wish-fulfilment fantasy for sperges
(00:20:08) Elliot's language: the civilised art of the subtextual dagger
(00:29:50) worst honeymoon ever
(00:34:06) Casaubon is a little too much like us
(00:41:48) Lydgate the ambitious outsider
(00:58:39) TYKE VS FAREBROTHER!!!! hold onto your seats
(00:58:39) Fred the affable failson
(01:16:29) Listener mail: on the merits of assigning authors by race

WRITE US:

We love listener feedback. Send us a note at douevenlit@gmail.com to correct our hot takes, add your own, or ask a question.

NEXT ON THE READING LIST:

- The rest of Middlemarch
???

Raymond Carver's Cathedral might be one of the most simple and beloved American short stories, but Benny is determined to overthink it anyway.

On meta-deception: before we dive in, Benny obsesses over “meta-deception” and feels betrayed by magicians.

On jealousy: is it OK for your wife to write intimate poetry about another man tenderly stroking her face? Also, what does it take to be a good host?

Moment of transcendence: what is the narrator transformed by drawing the cathedral, or is this just an over-interpreted moment in American fiction? We talk about sincerity, empathy, and seeing other people.

Full transcript for this episode at doyouevenlit.com enriched with links, ideas, authors, etc.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00:07) benny mad at magicians using magic
(00:04:55) carver’s plain writing
(00:07:19) poetry not the first thing we pick up
(00:07:48) tribulations of being a good host
(00:12:46) getting reality from tv
(00:17:12) boundaries on friend zones
(00:20:41) dining in the dark
(00:26:42) winding down for the night
(00:28:24) describing cathedrals
(00:35:23) on gaining empathy
(00:38:02) what we get from cathedrals
(00:41:17) on still being a good host
(00:44:54) benny still not getting it
(00:49:20) next book announcement

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We love listener feedback. Send us a note at Some say it's good.)

Ursula K. Le Guin's 1973 story The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas has been discussed to death, but the boys have finally cracked the ONE TRUE reading. huddle in

Rich remembered this being a glorified trolley problem that would allow us to settle the question of 'who is the most utilitarian-brained of us all' but it's not! It's about politics, and capitalism, and bold utopian leaps!

On the real-world parallels: does western prosperity actually depend on the suffering of the global south? Is there a difference between culpability and moral luck? Is there such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism?

Fighting the hypothetical: Benny has largely solved moral philosophy and finds the story less compelling the second time around. Also, Omelas is not very revealing as a thought experiment. We talk about how thought experiments fail, and compare with Nozick's experience machine.

On those who walk away: morally serious dissenters, or virtue-signalling posers? Is Le Guin really so against incrementalism that she has set up the experiment so it's impossible? We manage to find an optimistic reading lurking in there too.

Plus: Why can't kids these days read good? We debate whether it's a moral panic, if the use of LLMs helps or hinders, and how fucking stupid you'd have to be to try and start a literature podcast in a post-literate society.

Full transcript available at doyouevenlit.com — you can sort all episodes by ideas, authors, and more.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00:00) this is a running podcast now
(00:05:50) Impressions vs the first time we read the story
(00:09:30) synopsis: a utopian city with a dirty little secret
(00:17:50) FIGHTING THE HYPOTHETICAL
(00:25:00) The case against thought experiments: If magic was real, would you grant that magic was real?
(00:28:00) Is walking away a moral act or empty posturing
(00:30:42) Le Guin's true motive: socio-political critique or glorified trolley problem
(00:35:00) is Omelas actually an anarchist utopia?
(00:43:01) is there such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism
(00:52:28) moral luck vs. culpability (EA is good akshully)
(01:02:00) The stickiness of the Omelas story
(01:05:00) Eric T's listener mail: can kids still read good?
(01:18:00) on the stupidity of starting a lit podcast in a post-literate age
 

WRITE US:

We love listener feedback. Send us a note at douevenlit@gmail.com to correct our hot takes, add your own, or ask a question.

 

NEXT ON THE READING LIST:

Cathedral — Raymond Carver

Middlemarch — George Eliot

Wrapping up our discussion of Philip Roth's American Pastoral, in which the Swede is finally reunited with his missing daughter. it's bleak.

On losing your daughter: Can you save people from themselves? Should the Swede have dragged Merry out by the hair? Did he do anything wrong, or is he torturing himself for nothing?

The American berserk: Was '60s counterculture violence a freak aberration, or just a manifestation of the undercurrent that lies beneath the pastoral dream? Is Roth an old man shaking his fist at clouds? Or is he making a clever point about the obliviousness of those who live behind white picket fences?

Plus: Roth vs Dostoevsky, in praise of blue-haired activist types, and the problem of assimilation.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00:00) Roth vs Dostoevsky
(00:10:00) Merry's motivations and lack of interiority
(00:16:52) Coercing loved ones to save them from themselves
(00:23:53) Champagne socialists are good akshully
(00:26:20) Violence in america always has been meme
(00:40:25) Roth's pessimism about assimilation
(00:45:20) Roth's pessimism about knowing your fellow man
(00:55:10) next book(s) announcement

 

WRITE US:

We love listener feedback. Send us a note at douevenlit@gmail.com to correct our hot takes, add your own, or ask a question.

 

NEXT ON THE READING LIST:

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas - Ursula K. Le Guin

Cathedral — Raymond Carver