Unrefined Podcast .com

Every once in a while, we revisit an older conversation and realize that it may be even more relevant today than when we first recorded it. That is exactly how I feel about this episode with Nathan Zieber, a pastor, former private investigator, and former investigator with MUFON Canada. Nathan has been called the “Paranormal Pastor” because of his willingness to enter communities that many Christians either fear, dismiss, or simply do not understand.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Rewinding a Conversation That Still Matters
02:00 How MUFON Investigates UFO Reports
05:00 From Bible School to Paranormal Investigation
08:00 Christians in Supernatural and Justice Communities
10:00 Why the Church Avoids Paranormal Conversations
11:00 Are Aliens Extraterrestrial or Interdimensional?
14:00 Developing a Heart for People on the Fringe
16:00 When UFO Culture Becomes a Religion
17:00 UFO Disclosure, UAPs, and Possible Smokescreens
21:00 Using UFO Conversations to Open Gospel Doors
24:00 Salvations Within the Paranormal Community
26:00 Why Spiritually Curious People Need Compassion
29:00 Discipleship, Patience, and Messy Transformation
31:00 UFOs, Eschatology, and the Last Days
33:00 CE5, Summoning UFOs, and False Saviors
36:00 Transhumanism, DNA, and the Mark of the Beast
39:00 Investigating a Mysterious Cattle Mutilation
43:00 Nathan’s Terrifying Shadow Encounter
45:00 The Name of Jesus and Alien Encounters
47:00 How Christians Can Minister on the Fringe
50:00 Jesus Was a Friend of Sinners
52:00 What It Means to Be Naturally Supernatural
53:00 Becoming a Church Made of Small Communities

Most people don’t realize how much of life is driven by what the heart has come to believe. Fear, anxiety, bitterness, peace, hope, and faith are not just passing emotions — they are often connected to deep stories we have accepted as reality.
In this episode, Brandon welcomes back Jennifer Johnson for a deeply honest and practical conversation about trading fear for faith. Jennifer shares the story of a devastating church situation that left her family with financial debt, relational loss, disappointment, and a future that looked nothing like what she had planned.
Website: JJohnsoncoach.com 
 
Timestamps:
03:12 — Fear, Faith, and Responding from Love
05:32 — The Church Crisis That Changed Everything
07:52 — Debt, Betrayal, and Hard Decisions
10:17 — Losing a Father Figure and a Church Family
12:36 — Forgiveness, Integrity, and Being Left Behind
14:57 — When Life Becomes Something You Didn’t Choose
17:19 — Why Spiritual Bypassing Can Hurt
19:41 — The Beliefs Beneath the Thoughts
21:59 — How Beliefs Begin Directing Behavior
24:20 — How to Stop the Pain and Heart Transformation
26:43 — Is Fear the Opposite of Faith?
29:11 — If You Can Fear, You Can Faith
31:22 — Trusting the Promise, Surrendering the Process
33:34 — The Cycle of Thought, Evidence, Emotion, and Belief
35:56 — Looking for Evidence of God’s Goodness
38:21 — Walking Through the Valley Without Fear
40:30 — God’s Discipline as Loving Course Correction
42:58 — Hope, Faith, and Choosing Where to Look
45:21 — Learning to Trust the One Who Catches You
47:47 — Faith Is Substance, Not Denial
50:09 — Practical Heart Meditation Begins
52:22 — Letting Jesus Lead the Heart
54:50 — Chosen Before the Foundation of the World
56:56 — Receiving a New Name
58:55 — Remembering You Are on His Team
01:00:56 — Choosing a New Inner Reality
01:03:07 — Faith Instead of Fear
01:04:27 — Simple, But Not Easy
01:05:10 — Jennifer’s Coaching and Meditation Mondays

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In this episode, Brandon, Lindsy and Heard welcome author and researcher Ryan Pitterson for a wild but Scripture-centered conversation on artificial intelligence, ancient rebellion, and the war over humanity.
Ryan is known for his work on the Nephilim, Genesis 6, biblical prophecy, and the supernatural worldview of Scripture. 
The conversation begins with Ryan sharing his story, from growing up in New York City and pursuing law and politics, to being awakened to Bible prophecy and eventually writing on the Nephilim. From there, the episode moves into Genesis, Revelation, AI, transhumanism, the image of the beast, the mark, Babel, and the danger of technology becoming a counterfeit discipler.
Ryan asserts that the Bible gives us patterns, and that what happened in the beginning often foreshadows what comes at the end. He connects the corruption of the image of God in Genesis 6 with modern attempts to redefine humanity through technology, artificial intelligence, genetic manipulation, and spiritual deception.
The episode gets practical. Brandon asks how believers should use AI without being discipled by it. Ryan talks about discernment, boundaries, and the difference between using AI as a tool and turning to it for guidance, identity, intimacy, or spiritual direction.
This is not a fear-based episode. It is a call to stay awake, stay grounded in Christ, walk in love, and recognize that the gospel is still the answer in a world racing toward counterfeit immortality, counterfeit wisdom, and counterfeit salvation.
Links to books:
Judgment of the Nephilim
 The Final Nephilim
 The Earth Before Adam

Timestamps:
00:00:51 Brandon introduces AI as a possible ancient pattern repeating
00:03:11 Ryan Pitterson shares his background and spiritual upbringing
00:05:33 How end-times ministry and Genesis 6 changed Ryan’s direction
00:07:54 The preparation for Christ and the preparation for Antichrist
00:10:24 Ryan introduces The Earth Before Adam and quantum repetition
00:12:36 Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 and the possibility of an ancient judgment
00:14:55 The Hebrew word hayah and the idea that the earth became void
00:17:17 Jeremiah 4 and Ryan’s case for a pre-Adamic judgment
00:19:39 Lucifer’s throne commerce and ancient civilization
00:22:02 AI as a repeat of ancient technology and spiritual rebellion
00:24:22 The image of the beast surveillance worship and compliance

Somewhere along the way, a beautiful invitation became a measuring stick. Quiet time became proof. Bible reading became a scorecard. Prayer became something we could almost use superstitiously, as if the right words at the right time could keep the day from falling apart.
In this episode, the Crew talks honestly about devotional life, Bible study, Christian meditation, seasons of life, ADHD, emotion, discipline, and the difference between communing with God and just checking the spiritual boxes. This isn’t a call to throw structure away. It’s a call to remember what the structure was for in the first place.
Because the Father isn’t after performers. He’s after sons and daughters.
Today on Unrefined, we’re talking about relationship over rules with Brandon Spain, Lindsy Waters, and Jen.

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https://youtube.com/@christcenteredtribe?si=PVPbOe2Zh-NdH3V6
Timestamps
00:00:52 Relationship not rules sets the framework
00:03:01 Lindsy shares the evolution of his devotional life
00:05:27 Jen talks about quiet time as a rule and family wounds shaping her view of God
00:07:53 Brandon shares his early church background and checklist Christianity
00:10:20 Devotions as divination and prayer as superstition
00:12:40 Quiet time history and the heart becoming central
00:14:50 When a useful tool becomes a measuring stick
00:16:50 Structure without encounter and why discipline still matters
00:19:12 Seasons of life and letting the Lord shape the rhythm
00:21:39 Maturity identity and communing with God inside us
00:24:01 God as Father and learning He is present
00:25:49 The ditch of doing whatever we want and calling it Spirit led
00:27:58 Reacting against legalism or reacting against looseness
00:30:15 Righteousness is not based on quiet time
00:32:34 Speaking with God instead of only speaking to God
00:35:00 Christian meditation presence ADHD and awareness of God
00:37:29 Devotionals Oswald Chambers Spurgeon and the book serving the relationship
00:39:56 Easy yoke BibleProject and meditation as rumination
00:42:17 Worry meditation emotions and getting promises into the heart
00:44:35 The subconscious the heart and effortless transformation
00:45:45 Christian meditation versus Eastern emptying
00:48:10 Jesus wept emotions and the fruit of the Spirit
00:50:30 Emotion as the catalyst for truth sinking in
00:52:41 Emotions as indicators not enemies
00:54:58 Psalms trauma the body and sharing secrets with God
00:57:16 Journaling talking to God and practical devotional practices
00:59:33 Bible study versus devotional reading
00:59:57 Study time communion and the Unseen Realm book club
01:02:25 Mountains high places liminal space and spiritual imagination
01:04:40 Intellectual study can still involve the heart
01:06:41 Different wiring theology and joy in study
01:09:03 ADHD repetition worship music and reading the Bible for yourself
01:11:19 Feeling again emotions and avoiding the opposite ditch
01:13:39 Application SOAP SOS and final encouragements
01:16:00 Unrefined Life Group announcement

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What do you do with stories of people seeing their own double? Is it folklore? Brain malfunction? Astral projection? A demonic imitation? A flesh-and-blood mystery? Or something stranger that does not fit neatly into our modern categories?
In this episode rewind, Brandon Spain and Lindsy Waters explore the strange phenomenon of doppelgangers, also known as “double walkers.” The conversation moves through folklore, famous cases, biblical passages, cryptid encounters, scientism, spiritual laws, and the unsettling human ability to recognize when something looks almost human but not quite.
The episode begins with the German meaning of doppelganger as “double goer” or “double walker,” then moves into historical and cultural examples like the Irish fetch, changeling stories, Abraham Lincoln, Catherine the Great, Percy Shelley, John Donne, Goethe, and the mysterious case of Pauline Picard. Brandon and Lindsy also look at the famous Emily Sage case, where an entire classroom reportedly saw a teacher’s double.
The conversation also takes a biblical turn with Peter’s “angel” in Acts, the disciples thinking Jesus on the water was a ghost, and the larger question of whether Jewish thought had categories for spirit doubles or familiar beings. From there, the guys explore autoscopy, heutoscopy, sleep paralysis, astral projection, DMT, cryptids that mimic human voices, and the limits of purely material explanations.
This is not a neat and tidy answer episode. It’s an Unrefined conversation about mystery, discernment, supernatural reality, and why Christians should be careful not to reduce every strange thing to either “just science” or “just demons.”
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Timestamps:
00:00:06 Opening hook about fake humans and real humans
00:00:28 Brandon introduces the episode
00:00:53 Brandon and Lindsy introduce doppelgangers and doubles
00:01:45 The meaning of doppelganger as double goer or double walker
00:03:07 Looking at the topic through science and the supernatural
00:05:31 Clones and God-breathed spirit questions
00:07:58 Changelings, twins, impostors, and switched identities
00:10:27 The uncanny valley and why the brain notices false humanity
00:11:00 Emily Sage and the classroom that reportedly saw her double
00:12:47 Astral projection possibilities and gray areas Christians avoid
00:15:09 Pauline Picard and the Brittany mystery
00:17:19 The found girl in Cherbourg who did not recognize her family
00:19:26 The family, neighbors, and confession angle
00:20:57 Flesh-and-blood double versus apparition
00:23:20 Cultural and biblical categories for doubles
00:25:46 Peter’s angel, ghosts, cryptids, and imitation
00:28:14 Pursuing truth without forcing every case into one box
00:28:56 Autoscopy, heutoscopy, and seeing oneself
00:30:40 Brain tumors, perception, and possible supernatural overlap
00:31:54 Astral projection, meditation, psychotropics, and spiritual danger
00:34:20 Abraham Lincoln’s double and Mary Todd Lincoln’s interpretation
00:37:32 Fear of the supernatural and angelic encounters
00:39:52 Catherine the Great and the double on the throne
00:42:17 Spiritual laws, secondary causes, and the science of the spirit
00:43:23 Historical doppelganger accounts including John Donne and Goethe
00:45:33 Vardøger, déjà vu, time, and alternate reality questions
00:47:32 Percy Shelley’s disturbing double
00:49:40 Sleep paralysis, shadow figures, and doppelganger speculation