Unrefined Podcast .com

Government hearings. Whistleblowers. UFO disclosure. Alien claims. Christians calling everything demonic.
But what if the real answer is far more complicated?
Dr. Jonathan Kendall joins Brandon to explore the growing evidence surrounding UFOs and UAPs while challenging the simplistic explanations often offered from every side of the debate.
Together they discuss government evidence, consciousness, high strangeness, extradimensional realities, ancient encounters, quantum physics, biblical worldview, and why the phenomenon may force us to rethink how we understand reality itself.
Rather than choosing between "aliens" or "demons," this conversation asks whether we've been asking the wrong questions all along.

Amazon - New Book
https://x.com/JKendallMD
https://jonathankendallmd.com/
Timestamps:
00:28 Introduction and welcome back Dr. Jonathan Kendall
02:41 Jonathan's lifelong interest in UFOs and the paranormal
03:56 His grandfather's mysterious West Virginia UFO encounter
05:27 Has Jonathan ever had a UFO experience himself?
07:20 What convinced him UFOs are a real phenomenon?
09:55 Project Blue Book and the overwhelming evidence
13:31 The strongest evidence for UAPs today
15:37 Government secrecy, disclosure, and finding the truth
17:08 Are we actually moving toward disclosure?
19:14 Extraterrestrial vs. extradimensional vs. spiritual explanations
21:02 Beyond Cartesian dualism: a new way of understanding reality
23:08 The case for the extraterrestrial hypothesis
25:04 Why Jonathan ultimately leans toward the extradimensional view
27:20 Separating genuine encounters from misidentifications
29:28 Super Psi, consciousness, and paranormal experiences
31:49 Why reality isn't simply "either/or"
32:47 Are aliens really demons?
34:37 Logic, conspiracies, and the danger of flattening reality
36:58 Jacques Vallée, Diana Pasulka, and Christian perspectives
39:14 What Jonathan hopes readers take away from his book
40:41 Jinn, fairies, folklore, and ancient parallels
44:00 Biblical examples of the physical and spiritual overlapping
45:55 Time travel, quantum physics, and the transfiguration
47:18 Where to connect with Jonathan and his work
48:04 Thoughts on the new disclosure movie
49:11 "We need to get away from the idea that UFOs are demons."
49:56 Jonathan's final encouragement to Christians

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Could history itself be one of the greatest deceptions ever told? In this episode, Brandon and the team welcome back Joel Thomas  to unpack the rapidly growing "Little Season of Satan" theory. Together they examine its claims about Revelation 20, altered timelines, Tartaria, missing centuries, the Mandela Effect, and the belief that Christ's millennial reign has already occurred. Rather than simply dismissing the theory, Joel carefully traces its historical origins, theological foundations, and conspiracy overlaps while comparing them against Scripture, church history, and biblical context. The conversation ultimately challenges listeners to pursue discernment without losing sight of Christ, reminding believers that hope should always outweigh fear.
"If our search for hidden knowledge causes us to lose sight of Jesus, we've already lost the plot."

Forgiveness is one of the most necessary parts of the Christian life, but it is also one of the most misunderstood. In this episode, Brandon and Sandy sit down with Dr. Everett Worthington to talk about what forgiveness actually is, what it is not, and why reconciliation is something different altogether. Dr. Worthington shares the tragic story of his mother’s murder and how that moment forced him to live out the very forgiveness he had spent years studying and teaching. The conversation explores decisional forgiveness, emotional forgiveness, rumination, resentment, justice, boundaries, and what happens inside us when unforgiveness takes root. Dr. Worthington also walks through his REACH model and offers practical help for those who feel stuck in pain, anger, or grief. This is a powerful, honest, and hope-filled conversation for anyone wrestling with what it means to forgive without pretending the wound never happened.
Ev's Book https://a.co/d/01UMgKXo
Ev's Website -https://www.evworthington-forgiveness.com/
Timestamps
00:08 Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing
00:28 Welcome to the Unrefined Podcast
00:51 Introducing Dr. Everett Worthington and the topic of forgiveness
03:13 Dr. Worthington’s early work studying forgiveness
05:36 The murder of Dr. Worthington’s mother
07:41 Wrestling with anger after tragedy
10:06 Realizing he had to face forgiveness personally
12:29 Forgiveness does not erase justice
14:56 Defining forgiveness through stress and coping
17:12 Understanding the injustice gap
19:37 Different biblical ways to respond to injustice
21:57 Decisional forgiveness and emotional forgiveness
24:17 Restraint, the brain, and choosing not to retaliate
26:41 The difference between forgiveness and reconciliation
29:00 Boundaries, toxic relationships, and reconciliation
30:22 What it means to love your enemy
32:50 The REACH model of forgiveness
35:12 Giving the gift of forgiveness
37:32 When hurt comes back after forgiving
39:51 Anger, fear, and the body’s protective response
42:14 Rumination and unforgiveness
44:35 Vengeance, grudge-holding, and gender differences
47:02 Decisional forgiveness, emotional forgiveness, and well-being
49:07 Matthew 6 and “forgive to be forgiven”
51:25 Forgiveness, salvation, and God’s judgment
53:51 A word for listeners carrying deep wounds
55:36 Practicing forgiveness over time

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What if your family patterns, addictions, fears, and trauma are not the final word? In this episode, Brandon and team talk with Dr. Luman Wing about epigenetics, transgenerational sin, addiction, sanctification, and how the gospel may reach even deeper into our embodied lives than most Christians have imagined.
https://amzn.to/3QR8z3H- Dr. Lu's book
https://lumanwing.org/
Timestamps:
01:00 Introducing Dr. Luman Wing and Genes of Eden
03:00 Lu’s encounter with the Jesus Movement and Lonnie Frisbee
05:00 Science, design, and Dean Kenyon’s classroom moment
07:00 Blood, biochemistry, biotechnology, and gene therapy
08:00 How theology and epigenetics came together
09:00 Epigenetics explained in plain English
12:00 Stress, fear, habits, prayer, and gene expression
13:00 Augustine, Pelagianism, and inherited sin
15:00 Adam, shame, fear, and the transgenerational imprint
17:00 Transformation, neuroplasticity, and becoming new creatures
19:00 Addiction, dopamine, anticipation, and “holy wanting”
21:00 Why Leviticus may be more scientific than we think
23:00 The peace offering, adrenal glands, stress, and surrender
25:00 Heart, mind, soul, brain, and the emotional response
27:00 The amygdala, hippocampus, and prefrontal cortex
31:00 Traducianism, the soul, and inherited human brokenness
34:00 Junk DNA, non-coding RNA, and the mystery of the soul
36:00 Being born again and the mystery of redemption
39:00 Does salvation change us epigenetically?
41:00 Romans 7, Romans 8, and progressive sanctification
44:00 The worm, the butterfly, and imaginal cells
46:00 Trauma, PTSD, the amygdala, and getting stuck in loops
48:00 Reason, revelation, Scripture, and renewing the mind
50:00 Stillness with God as a real mental workout
53:00 Exercise, swimming, bilateral movement, and healing patterns
54:00 Generational curses, inherited patterns, and epigenetics
55:00 Holocaust trauma and transgenerational imprinting
58:00 Forgiveness as a powerful interruptor of inherited trauma
01:00:00 Addiction, family patterns, and why DNA is not destiny
01:03:00 Trauma in family history and what may carry forward
01:05:00 Why there is no single “alcoholism gene”
01:07:00 Practically learning stillness, peace, and emotional regulation
01:09:00 Why Christian fellowship matters biologically and spiritually
01:10:00 Identity, becoming, and Dr. Wing’s next book
01:12:00 Potential, formation, consolidation, and identity
01:16:00 Leviticus, burnt offerings, and absolute surrender
01:18:00 Why science “screams” the glory of God
01:19:00 Lu’s personal testimony of trauma and God’s intervention
01:21:00 Hope for believers stuck in family patterns

Every once in a while, we revisit an older conversation and realize that it may be even more relevant today than when we first recorded it. That is exactly how I feel about this episode with Nathan Zieber, a pastor, former private investigator, and former investigator with MUFON Canada. Nathan has been called the “Paranormal Pastor” because of his willingness to enter communities that many Christians either fear, dismiss, or simply do not understand.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Rewinding a Conversation That Still Matters
02:00 How MUFON Investigates UFO Reports
05:00 From Bible School to Paranormal Investigation
08:00 Christians in Supernatural and Justice Communities
10:00 Why the Church Avoids Paranormal Conversations
11:00 Are Aliens Extraterrestrial or Interdimensional?
14:00 Developing a Heart for People on the Fringe
16:00 When UFO Culture Becomes a Religion
17:00 UFO Disclosure, UAPs, and Possible Smokescreens
21:00 Using UFO Conversations to Open Gospel Doors
24:00 Salvations Within the Paranormal Community
26:00 Why Spiritually Curious People Need Compassion
29:00 Discipleship, Patience, and Messy Transformation
31:00 UFOs, Eschatology, and the Last Days
33:00 CE5, Summoning UFOs, and False Saviors
36:00 Transhumanism, DNA, and the Mark of the Beast
39:00 Investigating a Mysterious Cattle Mutilation
43:00 Nathan’s Terrifying Shadow Encounter
45:00 The Name of Jesus and Alien Encounters
47:00 How Christians Can Minister on the Fringe
50:00 Jesus Was a Friend of Sinners
52:00 What It Means to Be Naturally Supernatural
53:00 Becoming a Church Made of Small Communities