A Different Perspective Official Podcast

The seven deadly sins – lust, gluttony, greed, laziness, wrath, envy and pride – are tearing this world apart.  Each one of us deals with at least one in our makeup.  But God has graciously given us the power to break free from their clutches.
Berni: I'm joined again today by my good friend, Keith Henry. Keith, you've been great over these last couple of weeks. Time has flown; we're in our last day.
Keith: Yep, it's been very good Berni, enjoyed it very much.
Berni: You know, what's struck me as I've listened to you speaking about our different personality types and our weaknesses, is how complex we are as people. You know, we see people and we interact with them during the day but we never really stop to think how incredibly complex we each are. You know, there are so many layers and as we've looked at each personality type.
I'm going to ask you to go through those personality types again and look at the strengths and weaknesses of those personality types, just to kind of tie it all together today. But, you look at all that and you stand back and you think, 'man, these people couldn't possibly have evolved from some primeval slime. You know, if God didn't create us, it just, you know it takes more faith, from me, to believe in evolving from the primeval slime than it does to believe in the Creator who created these incredibly complex people.
Berni: We talked about seven different deadly sins. I'd just like to go through each of them again today, and you said, look, each personality type has a virtue, something that they're really good at.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: And, sort of like a flip side of a coin, which is the down side of that personality type and from what I gather from what you were saying was, that the way that, say a leader deals with his or her lust is by exercising their virtue which is Godly. Is that what you were saying?
Keith: That's right. Gods given us a way out for each personality and each sin, out of the seven deadly sins and in terms of a leader, because they have a lust for life, they have an adventurous spirit and it can undo them because they get into all the sins which is quite easy to open to because they are so active and so out there, that they have to react to those things in a Godly way but what do we mean by that? The one, the Godly way that suits the leader is justice and truth. You think of God, He's a loving God so they have to have that love but they really want justice.
Berni: Is that a natural inclination for the leader?
Keith: It is.
Berni: And so, if the leader replaces the down side with the up side, that's how he or she wins.
Keith: Exactly. So, they have to look at justice and truth in terms of "what is Gods justice" not revenge in the world.
Berni: Okay, so the leader, the down side for that personality type is lust but if we can summarise the virtue corresponding, is Godliness.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Okay, that's great. Okay, tell me about the encourager. The encourager's sin is gluttony which was kind of weird.
Keith: Yes, they want more of everything and they want to do everything. They just don't settle down, they're forever on the move, life's exciting for them but they have to focus more. They actually have to get one thing that they're passionate about and focus on it. So they become more in moderation, not so many things that they're doing at one time.
Berni: Okay, so for the encourager, the sin is gluttony but the strength, the virtue is moderation.
Keith: Yes, that's right.
Berni: Okay. What about the server, the server is someone who serves. Love being around servers, all you servers can come over to my place.
Keith: Well, the server, in this case, we're talking about a server who's got greed and the greed we're referring there is hoarding things. So it's not gluttony as we said, of wanting more and more, it's hoarding things because they don't think they have enough. The hoarding is based upon fear so that what they have to do, the way out is really, they're a knowledge person, so get more word, get more knowledge and then go out and use it. They actually have to put it into action, go out in faith in other words.
Berni: Okay, so if they're hoarding their money because they're afraid they won't have enough for tomorrow, the way to deal with that is to, for instance, exercise faith by giving some of that away.
Keith: Exactly or entering a new project if they wanted to.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Actually going and doing it instead of just gaining more knowledge and being too scared.
Berni: The teacher, what's the teacher's deadly sin?
Keith: The deadly sin is sloth there or what we call laziness.
Berni: I love that "sloth".
Keith: Yes but as I said, even the busy can be lazy, right. It's really putting off what should be done today and putting off until tomorrow and the tomorrow and the tomorrow. It's not having priority, it's to do things and sticking to them. So the virtue of that is perseverance.
Berni: Okay, so sticking with things and seeing them through to completion.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right.
Keith: And having a priority to do the first things first, not to put them to the last.
Berni: Alright, the prophet. The prophet's someone who speaks out right and wrong. In fact, the prophet's in the Bible were the people who spoke out Gods right and wrong. What's the deadly sin that the prophet has a problem with?
Keith: The deadly sin is anger but it's not an anger that a leader might use in shouting at somebody. It's an internal anger, that they resent things not being perfect, they resent people not doing the right thing. So what they have to do, they have to have integrity of Gods integrity there. They actually look at His standard, God has a standard, these are "standard" people. They like a standard set, a very high standard, so they have to look at Gods standard, not their standard and work to Gods standard.
Berni: So the prophet's the person who finds it hard to soar like an eagle when they're surrounded by turkeys.
Keith: Exactly, so they have to really, Gods standard is to be patient and understanding with everyone.
Berni: Yep, yep, it is. Alright, the carer.
Keith: The carer has envy as the deadly sin that they have most of. They love what other people have. The carer's a loving person and they go up and down, their emotions and they want to experience the ride but the way out of it for them and the only way out is to show love to others. They're sensitive, not to their own feelings, become sensitive to other people's feelings and show love to them.
Berni: And the neat thing about that is that that's the carer's natural inclination anyway, isn't it?
Keith: It is.
Berni: Is to show love. So really they're replacing their sin with their virtue.
Keith: Exactly.
Berni: If they live out their virtue, the sin actually has no room.
Keith: That's right, yes, that's right.
Berni: That's God's way, isn't it?
Keith: Focus on others, not themselves.
Berni: Yeah. Alright, the giver.
Keith: The giver, it's pride here which sounds very very funny but say I'm supporting your ministry and I'm the biggest supporter, I then start want to expect things from you, I want you to do it my way. I don't want you to do this; I want you to do that. So they, they think, pride can think, "I'm the power behind the throne, I'm the one that has done everything". The way over that is brotherly kindness; they actually have to give, with kindness, without any expectation of return. Just give through a loving heart.
Berni: In each case, there's a natural virtue that these personality types have and the natural virtue, if they exercise that, God starts driving out the sin.
Keith: He does, we can't do it, there is no way. You can become like a monk, a Buddhist monk and you can become the highest level you want and the peaceful person but you cannot break through the divine nature.
Berni: No, that's the thing that God does through His Spirit. Hey listen Keith, it's been fascinating spending these couple of weeks with you and time has just gone out the window but it's been really fascinating and I've learned so much about myself and about other people.
Keith: That's good Berni; I've enjoyed being here, thank you very much.
Berni: Good on ya, hopefully we'll be able to have Keith Henry back another time and it's been a real blessing. God bless you.
Keith: Thank you.

You've probably heard of the Seven Deadly Sins.  Sounds old fashioned, but actually those same seven are tearing people's lives apart. Which one are you most prone to, and how can you break free from its clutches?
Over this last week and a half on the program, we've been spending some time looking at what are called the "seven deadly sins". Not because we want to do a guilt trip, not because we want to bandy round some seemingly old fashioned word like "sin" but because sin ruins our lives and the seven deadly sins that we've been talking about over these last couple of weeks certainly do that.
Lust, gluttony, greed, laziness, anger, envy and pride; seven of the deadliest. That's the problem with sin, it robs us of life itself. Spend your time being angry all the time, what joy are you going to have? Do the gluttony thing and the weight will ruin your health and quality of life. Lust ruins marriages. On it goes; sin ruins lives, it's plain and it's simple.
I just want to spend some time today with Keith Henry again, our special guest, being honest about the consequences. Tomorrow, we're going to look at the wondrous, beautiful solution but today, let's get real about the consequences. What do you think Keith, do you think that we try and sweep them under the carpet, these sins sometimes?
Keith: I think we can but also think that we don't know what to do about them and secondly we don't feel we have any power to do something about them.
Berni: You see, what strikes me is, let's assume for a moment, God made us, right. Let's assume for a moment God knew what He was doing, didn't make a mistake.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right, what all the experts, including yourself, tell us is that each personality type is prone to a particular one of these downfalls. It's almost like each personality type has a good side but there's an underside.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: So the sin of lust is one that the leader is prone to. Gluttony, what personality type, remind me, is prone to gluttony?
Keith: Encourager.
Berni: The encourager. Greed.
Keith: Is the server, it's a fear.
Berni: Yeah. Laziness.
Keith: Is the teacher.
Berni: Anger.
Keith: Is the prophet.
Berni: Envy.
Keith: Is the carer.
Berni: And pride.
Keith: Is the giver.
Berni: See, each one of those is prone to one of those sins. What was God thinking, I wonder sometimes, giving us each one of those sins? See, God doesn't have any sin in Him and yet He creates personality types and we all end up with a particular Achilles heel, if you like.
Keith: We do but I don't think God made us to actually have these things, it's actually in the form of our culture and our nature that is not divine, we have these sins which manifest in our personality, more so in 1 personality than in another and God provides the way out.
Berni: Yeah, we're going to talk about that. I was interested though, one of the passages that's always drawn me to it is in 2 Corinthians, chapter 12 and I want to share this with you. This is the apostle Paul, 2 Corinthians 12, beginning in verse 7:
Therefore to keep me from being too elated, (writes Paul) a thorn was given me in my flesh, a messenger of satan to torment me and keep me from being too elated. 
Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would leave me but He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in your weakness." So I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamities for the sake of Christ. For whenever I am weak then I am strong.
The fist few hundred times I read this passage I thought this thorn in the flesh must be, maybe he's got a limp or maybe there's something wrong with his hip or maybe he's sick or whatever but the more I read it, this thorn in the flesh and the word he uses there, for flesh, is the same word that Paul uses elsewhere for the sinful nature.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right. "As a messenger of satan to torment me". The more I read that, the more I'm thinking Paul's actually talking about some sin that he's dealing with and we read elsewhere where Paul writes he struggles to do the right thing, same struggles as you and I have and everybody else has and 3 times Paul goes and says, "God, take it away", and God says, "Well no actually, you know what the answer is, the answer is not me taking this away, the answer is that my grace is sufficient for you and my power becomes perfect in your weakness." Isn't that awesome?
Keith: It is, isn't it?
Berni: And I look at my sins and my weaknesses and the flaws in my character and I think, "You know, God wants to use me anyway even though I have these weaknesses." How do you respond to this passage?
Keith: I agree with you, I think "flesh", the word there is referring to his nature and if we think, from reading about Paul, that he really has a prophet personality, he's very black and white, there's one right way, one wrong way. So his real sin there that God could be talking about is anger, where he resents things not being perfect.
Berni: And you see him getting angry, in the Scriptures, when he's writing to some of these Churches, don't you?
Keith: Yes ... he pulls them up, doesn't he?
Berni: I was going to ask you what personality type you thought Paul was, the prophet. He is a pretty "in your face" kind of guy.
Keith: He is and I know myself, when I've suffered a weakness, a physical weakness or something like that, you do become strong. You become humble, I often say to my wife, "I'm a better person when I'm suffering."
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: 'Cause it's not about me anymore.
Berni: Yeah. Although you don't want to be there all your life.
Keith: No, you don't do you?
Berni: No, you don't say, "God, I want to suffer." (Both laugh)
Keith: No, you want to be free from it but you want to also have the personality that participates in the nature of God, not in our own selfishness or in Paul's case, that resentment, that anger.
Berni: Yeah, I come back to what God said to Paul and I think God's saying it to each one of us. You know, we each have different personality types and we each have an Achilles heel don't we? We each have something, whether it's anger or envy or lust or gluttony or, whatever it is, each one of us, kind of, relates to one of those. We go, "you know something, I really don't want to admit this to anyone but that's me."
Keith: That's right.
Berni: And God's saying to us here, "I know, I made you, you are no surprise to me", and Paul goes and says, "God, you know the best thing would be if you took this away" and God says, "well no, actually the best thing would be Paul, is if you experience my grace instead and if you start to become like Me because the power that I have for you, that power becomes perfect when you're weak." And Paul says, "zippidy-doo-da", and it's almost, we need to accept who we are, good and bad.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: I don't want to revel, I don't want to live in my sin, I don't want to, I want God to deal with that but Gods saying, "I'll deal with it, in my way, in my time. In the mean time, my grace is sufficient for you." What an awesome God.
Keith: He is, He's the one that provides the way out for everything.
Berni: Yeah, and that grace, that grace is hanging there on the cross, that grace is Jesus Christ nailed, His flesh nailed to a cross suffering a painful death to pay for my sin, to pay for your sin, to pay for everybody's sin. That grace is sufficient for Paul, it's sufficient for Keith Henry, it's sufficient for Berni Dymet, it's sufficient for all of us and Gods power is what ultimately changes us.
Keith: I think the whole point of the Bible is that we are to become more like Christ every day. That's our nature; our personality has to change to be more like God. We can't do it but God can do it.
Berni: We cannot and that's what we're going to look at, tomorrow, on the program. Keith, it's been great to talk to you.
Keith: Thank you Berni.

Pride is an ugly thing – but these days, it's almost a virtue. I mean on the one hand should we be delighted when we succeed at something? Sure, but pride takes that delight to a different level.  That's why it's one of the seven deadly sins. And let me tell you, it's still deadly.
Interestingly, the other week I was being interviewed by an editor of a magazine, sharing what God was doing through this ministry, Christianityworks, that I'm involved in. And the interviewer said to me, "You must be incredibly proud of what you've achieved!"
I was horrified, mortified. I said, "No, no, you haven't been listening to me. It's what God's been doing. I've had the privilege of being involved but most days you know, I feel much more like a bystander than a participant. All the really big things that have happened have been so far beyond anything we could ever have achieved as people."
What I experience in my heart, when I look at that, is a quiet contentment and a joy of looking back to see what I have been allowed to have some part in. But not proud. After the interview I had a good think. You see, before I met Jesus in my life 13 years ago, I was proud of everything I'd had achieved. And I had achieved a lot in my business career. Problem is, it all fell down like a house of cards.
It seems it's something of a virtue these days, to be proud. It's good for our self esteem and yet, the truth be known, pride is a sin and it's still deadly.
Berni: Joined on the program today, again by Keith Henry. Keith thanks for joining us.
Keith: Pleasure Berni.
Berni: Now listen, you're a bit of a guru. Tell me about this "pride" thing. What's that about? I mean what sort of person is prone to pride? Why do we get proud?
Keith: Well, as you said, it's very rife in our communities at the moment. And when you look at pride and you think of, for instance, the Olympics or some sporting event. People who get a gold medal would rightly, you'd think, be very proud of what they've achieved.
Berni: Sure.
Keith: But it can be a false sense of ability because we all know what you're good at today can be robbed from you tomorrow. We have to give credit to, you know, a lot of other people who got us there as well as what we've done in ourselves.
And in Christianity, if you're a big name preacher, well it's not pride in what you're doing, it's "proud", as you said, in what God has done through you and you've been able to be a part of it. And so pride, really is a very worldly sort of terminology. And with pride comes entitlement, right. If I've achieved something therefore I'm entitled to something.
Berni: Yeah, it's like all about me.
Keith: Exactly.
Berni: As though, as though it ever is all about you. It's really quite bizarre. One of the things I really dislike intensely is the tennis players and the swimmers who win and they kind of, you know how they lift their hand up and they point at themselves like, "It's all about me". And I think, "Mate, that is just so not, not the case".
Keith: It isn't, they can lose the next point can't they, very easily?
Berni: Exactly.
Keith: Reality's round the next point. But in the, in the giftings of what type of gift you are, you know.
Berni: Yeah, what sort of personality type suffers from this?
Keith: Okay, the one that you wouldn't think about is the giver.
Berni: The giver suffers from pride?
Keith: Yes, that's right.
Berni: That's weird.
Keith: It is because when you think about it, a giver is a person who is very, very good at sensing your needs and what they do. It's not just giving of money, it's giving their time and their ability. They are the great "behind the scenes" people.
Berni: Yep.
Keith: You know you might happen to be the Managing Director of a big company, your personal assistant is the giver.
Berni: Yep, yep.
Keith: And people say you can't get through to the Managing Director unless you go through the gateway.
Berni: Yes.
Keith: They control everything. They are the power behind the scene.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: They are the ones that, they think, can think, that really runs the company.
Berni: Yeah, okay, and I guess if you had someone who give financially to support some philanthropic work or ministry, they can ending up saying, "Well actually, if it wasn't for me they wouldn't be in business."
Keith: That's right and then they start wanting entitlement, "I want you now to do it my way."
Berni: Yeah, okay, they want to control the way in which the giving is used.
Keith: That's right. So they actually try and become a "behind the scenes leader" where they want to use power and control but not be out the front.
Berni: Now we're not saying all givers are bad.
Keith: No.
Berni: We're just saying this is, 'cause givers, we need givers in this world, we need people who give of their time and their money and their abilities because it would be a sad old world without the giver but this is the downside of their personality type I guess.
Keith: That's the downside.
Berni: It's the Achilles heel.
Keith: Yeah but here, another really good giver was Mother Theresa.
Berni: Right.
Keith: You might think she was a carer. Well she was actually a giver because they both come from emotions, the emotional side, so they both have sensitivity, a very high sensitivity. Then Mother Theresa could sense the needs of the people and she went out and physically did something to help them overcome their problems.
Berni: Okay. Well if pride is, is one of the 7 deadly sins, how is it deadly? What's the impact of pride?
Keith: The impact is one, mainly of payment, "I do this for you, I expect you to do this for me."
Berni: Quid pro quo
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: Rather than giving freely.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Giving with strings attached.
Keith: Very much so. The more a person starts to give and somebody else becomes dependant on them, then they want.
Berni: Okay and I guess that's destructive because that's not what giving should be about, is it?
Keith: No, in the Bible in 2 Peter 1, where the virtues are, it actually says that the giver should have kindness, brotherly kindness.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: So they should be kind without expecting anything in return for their giving. And that's when they're fulfilled. They participate in the divine nature once they use their ability to give. And you and I and lots of people know if you're married to a giver, as we both are, or if you have a giver in your life somewhere, they are the most wonderful people. They can spoil you and make life easy for you. And they love spending time with you, love helping you, they're called the helpers, the real helpers. And so they're so valuable but they're not to look at what they can get out of it. They do it because that's their gift, as we all do, to use our gift.
Berni: And I know some givers you know, invariably when you give to Gods work, somehow God just makes it that the timing is so amazing, that it just came at the right time or was just the right amount or whatever it is. And the person who gives, who gives in faith, that must be such a buzz for them when they find that out.
Keith: Yes. Well it's the ultimate in non-selfishness isn't it to actually give? Especially money. We're a money society, especially give your money, you know that really is hard and so they find it easier. They can give to so many causes and if they have a sensitivity to sense that this person really needs something at this moment, they can sense it, they can do it.
Berni: You know, it just amazes me how, I guess, each of these different 7 deadly sins seems to pop up in the lives of the sorts of people you and I wouldn't expect.
Keith: That's right, that's exactly right. It's not always the way it's interpreted if you think of envy and all those other things. It's not really the way it's normally interpreted.
Berni: Tomorrow we're going to sort of recap and go through each one of these 7 deadly sins, just quickly to summarise because there's been a lot there for me. And if you've been with us over these last week and a half or so, the insights that Keith's shared with us have been really, truly amazing. So, it's been a blessing, we'll catch you again tomorrow Keith.
Keith: Thanks Berni.

Envy is probably one of the most destructive of all emotions.  We see something someone else has and we want it.  Wars have been fought over envy. That's why it numbers amongst the seven deadly sins.  And it's still deadly.
I imagine that envy, envy is one of those emotions, no, lets not call it an emotion, lets call it what it really is. Envy is one of those sins that we experience from our earliest childhood. Little Johnny next door has a new toy car and I want it or little Sarah next door has a brand new doll and you want it.
So we envy what they have, we want to get our hands on what they have and then we grow up and it's so easy to envy the things that other people have or how they look or who they're married to or what other people think of them, so easy.
You may have heard me say this before but I really used to suffer from this, I couldn't stand it, I hated it when someone else had something that I couldn't have.
You stand back and you think about it and you realise two things about envy. Firstly, it doesn't have a single redeeming feature, it's just plain ugly and secondly, it's an incredibly destructive sin.
While I envy what you have and you envy what I have, we can't have any trust between us. There can't be any closeness or friendship, it robs us of the most important thing of all; relationship. Envy has always been a deadly sin and you know something; today, right here and now, it's still deadly.
Berni: I'm joined today again by Keith Henry. Keith thanks for joining us.
Keith: Pleasure Berni.
Berni: It's been such a blessing. You know, Keith has some real insights about these 7 deadly sins. It's not because he specialises in each one of them or anything like that. Keith's spent the last 10 years of his life, really understanding our different personality types we have and what it turns out is that each different personality type has one particular sin that it specialises in. Now Keith, tell us about envy, what's this envy thing all about, where does it come from, where does it start from?
Keith: Envy, I believe, is one of the most misunderstood of the 7 deadly sins and as you said, one of the most destructive. Only because people don't know a way out of it and the secret is, envy is really love of what other people have. It comes back to that 'love' point of view, God is love and in envy, we love what somebody else has. But when you get it, often you don't want it. It's one of those things, 'I want it when I can't get it, when I do have it, I don't want it anymore'.
Berni: It's really interesting, envy, I was reading something the apostle Paul wrote in Galatians chapter 5, have a listen. He says:
The works of the flesh are obvious; sexual immorality, impurity, licentiousness , idolatry, sorcerery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger.
Quite a list: Quarrels, dissention, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing and things like that. I'm warning you against them.
Interesting that envy numbers amongst those sorts of sins; idolatry, sorcerery, strife, jealousy, anger, envy. It's right up there.
Keith: It is. Envy's in the mind, this is what makes it so strong. Envy is a sensitivity to something and people who have envy are very, very much live in their mind, they're thinking and often in the past.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: They actually re-do or re-think things that have happened in the past and put a different slant on it so that they are envious of, they should have had that, why didn't they have it? What was wrong with me? And it brings about shame and guilt and all the destructive forces. Envy is terrible, all the deadly sins are terrible but this one is the hardest one to overcome.
Berni: So what sort of person is more prone to envy than another?
Keith: It's funny, when you ask that question, 'cause you don't really expect the answer. In the Bible, in Romans 12 where it talks about the 7 personality types, it's actually the carer and who do we think the carer is? The carer is that lovely, sweet...
Berni: That is bizarre!
Keith: ... kind. It is isn't it? Because in their personality, the carer wants to be unique, they want to be special, they want to be different and they can see things that are special, that are different that we can't, that sensitivity level is the highest of all personalities and so they actually,
Berni: Makes sense.
Keith: Yeah and what happens is they can see it, like if you were hurting right now, in your feelings, you have a problem, I wouldn't see it, they would and they'd start asking you questions. They want to help people, they have a natural inclination to help people but when they're not doing that they can get depressed easily, they have bi-polar, they can, they could commit suicide if it got really bad. It's so, so destructive because they're thinking all the time and regurgitating things.
Berni: They're emotionally sensitive.
Keith: They're very emotionally sensitive.
Berni: And there's an upside to that and there's a downside to that.
Keith: Well the upside to it is the carer is one of the nicest, happiest, fulfilled people out. The way out of this is, see, as I said at the start is, envy is a love of what other people have and what I don't have.
Berni: Before we talk about the way out I want to understand why it is that someone whom we all love, the carer, the one who pulls alongside and spends the time with us and all sorts of stuff, why is it particularly the carer who is prone to envy, why?
Keith: Because of their sensitivity. They see things in it, they have a real appreciation for creativity for instance and for music and things like that, that we don't have and they see things in the world that we don't have sensitivity for.
Berni: Okay and so I guess, because they see things so deeply they latch onto them and they want them.
Keith: That's right, they do and they want to be special.
Berni: Okay, so what's the way out, I mean if someone's, it almost must be a Jeckel and Hyde thing, on the outside they're so loving and so warm and on the inside, this envy thing must eat away like a cancer.
Keith: It is, it's a bit like the leader is an adrenaline junkie, you know just wants to do things that challenge them and gets adrenaline going. This is the closest, in a way, you wouldn't think it but this is the closest in the way to the leader in terms of that. They want the highs and lows because they have the feeling sensitivity, they want to go up and then come down and realise what it's like again and go up again. They're going, they're sensitivity...
Berni: A sort of cyclotronic type of.
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Yeah and the way out of it is the way that you enter it. Envy is love of other things, the actual way out of it is, being a carer, is love of God but love of others, to care for them. They have the sensitivity to see where you're hurting, they have the sensitivity to help you and so they have to, if they take it away from themselves, this is the only way out for them. They actually have to focus on using that sensitivity to help people and to not take things as "somebody's had a go at me" all the time.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: Because they're sensitive, you could say something and not mean it, they take it and they run away.
Berni: They're over sensitive sometimes.
Keith: Over sensitive.
Berni: See, interesting, before I became a Christian I was always very envious. Now I'm not a carer by any stretch of the imagination but I did experience envy. I hated it when other people succeeded and I didn't think about it much but when I became a Christian, God turned my life around and I began to serve other people.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: It's just what I do now and I get so much fulfilment, envy's just gone, it doesn't exist anymore for me. I love it when other people succeed now and I never thought about it.
Keith: That's the divine nature. See the Bible says we should participate in the divine nature. Divine nature is centered on focusing on other people. You've stopped focusing on yourself Berni and now you're fulfilled. You were never fulfilled ...
Berni: No.
Keith: ... when you focused on yourself.
Berni: Never, ever. Alright, we're going to talk tomorrow about another of the 7 deadly sins, in fact, the last one and this one is pride and I've got to tell you Keith, I keep running into these and think, "I remember that one too!" So I'm really interested to see what you have to say about pride tomorrow.
Keith: Look forward to it Berni.

You don't have to look very far to figure out that anger is something that's hitting society in plague proportions. Everybody seems to be angry. Anger is one of the seven deadly sins. And it's still deadly.
Every now and then we all get angry, we just do. It's a natural human emotion, in fact, you read a bit about God in His word, the Bible, and you discover God gets angry. Jesus became so angry he made a whip and drove the money changers and the traders out of His Father's house, the Temple of God in Jerusalem.
So anger is natural, it happens when one person wrongs another person and yet, if we let anger get the better of us, if we live constantly in anger, it's pretty ugly.
I have a dear friend and his particular weakness is anger. In fact, I have to say, I used to be a very angry person and you know something, if we're angry all the time we just can't enjoy life. In fact, angry people can't easily have relationships with other people.
Angry people, well they tend to be very lonely people because no-one trusts them. People don't know when they're going to be on the end of that next angry outburst. Anger may well be justified, although often it's not, but if that's where we live all the time, it's really very ugly.
Today, as always, anger is a particularly deadly sin.
Berni: What do you reckon Keith?
Keith: It is Berni; nobody wants to be around an angry person. They're very threatening and we try and avoid being around them and you would think the leader personality would be the one that would have the anger, the most anger.
Berni: Yeah, you would, I mean because the leader is a sort of personality that's driving towards a conclusion and would get frustrated with people who don't come along.
Keith: That's right but it's outside anger right, so they voice it to anybody or anything that gets in their way because they want to get rid of them. But the anger we're talking about today, in terms of the 7 deadly sins, is an internal anger, right. It's given to the, for instance, the prophet.
The prophet is likely to be angry because they can see justice or they can see what's fair or what's right, have integrity and things aren't correct. They're very black and white people, the prophet.
Berni: Now explain a prophet to me. By the way Keith Henry's joining me this week; I forgot to tell people that you were joining me Keith. Keith's a bit of a guru, he's done a bit of, quite a bit of study haven't you, about personality types and particular strengths and weaknesses, that's your gig isn't it?
Keith: It is, for about 10 years, studied that and talk on that but getting back to the prophet here Berni, the prophet is a particular personality type, next door to the leader I call them because they are managers, they can manage.
Berni: Right.
Keith: Not the leader who breaks down the wall and leads the team out, they're actually the manager who can manage with integrity, right and that's the important thing; a prophet has integrity.
Berni: A sort of gyroscope of right and wrong.
Keith: Exactly, there's only one right way, there's only one wrong way therefore there's no shades of grey.
Berni: I relate to that a little bit.
Keith: Well it's next door to you.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Right, in personality but when we talk about anger here, both the prophet and the leader come from will, they're strong willed people. But the will and the anger for the leader goes outward, against anything, the anger we're talking about here, the deadly sin, is internal in the prophet.
Berni: It's a seething anger.
Keith: It is and can build resentment.
Berni: Yeah that would be very destructive, wouldn't it?
Keith: It can be very destructive. Not only for them but also, if they start letting it out to ... you know "you're not doing it right, you must do it this way" type of attitude; well it puts people down very much.
Berni: We all kind of know people who seethe away and seethe way and bubble away and all of a sudden explodes, is that what happens here with that sort of anger?
Keith: Yes it is, it is a bubbling away anger, it's an internal anger and because they only, as I said, they only see one right, one wrong therefore you must do it that way. I've got a good example here actually, there's 1 person I know who covers books right.
Berni: Right.
Keith: At a school and they cover them very diligently, they're a prophet personality and there's only one way to cover a book.
Berni: The right way isn't it?
Keith: It's the right way and it is perfect, it's the best book cover you ever see. We actually happened to import and sell a book covering machine that can do 80 books an hour, would never even look at it because it's not perfect they way that they can do it. So, would never consider it, that they could actually free the school up, to get all the books covered.
Berni: Yep.
Keith: They would rather take them home at night and keep doing it because there's only one way to do it.
Berni: Yeah, yeah, the right way and of course the hard thing with that is, the rest of the world doesn't function that way. The rest of the world does what the rest of the world wants to do and so this must eat away at the prophet type personality because the prophet type personality is the person that wants to speak out the right way.
And if you look at the prophets of old in the Old Testament, the prophets were the people who called Gods people back to God again. Who pointed out the things that they were doing wrong. So that's the prophet's natural inclination. So you've got this bubbling away and you can see how it would hurt them inside. What does the prophet do with this?
Keith: How do they overcome it?
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: They have to stop working in their own integrity or virtue right, they're saying it must be done this way, that's the way it should be done. They have to look at the integrity of Gods word. In other words, not be selfish about 'I want this way because that's the only right way', they actually have to open themselves up to see it as God sees it. So they have to have the integrity, they're integrity people, but they have to have the integrity of God, not of themselves.
Berni: Anger itself is not a sin is it? I mean, Paul writes in Ephesians 4, verse 26:
Be angry but do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your anger.
So it seems what he's saying is, we're all going to get angry, God gets angry but what's wrong about it is letting it bubble away and bubble away and bubble away.
Keith: Yes and there's a righteous anger but the righteous is according to God not according to your own selfishness.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: The prophet has a very righteous anger but who's righteousness is it?
Berni: Okay so let's imagine that, that I've got the problem, I'm the prophet, I can see things very black and white and I see the right way and I'm burning with anger, inside at these people who aren't doing it my way, who aren't doing it the right way and after all my ways the only right way.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right, so exactly what can I do with a person that's driving me nuts today?
Keith: The only way is to have some empathy with them and to take time to be a teacher. They have to have patience which is the teacher right, the teacher has to have patience and they, even though they're on the other side, they actually have to take time to be patient with that person and to teach them and to show them there's a right way of doing it.
Berni: Okay because it's almost like sharing the right way.
Keith: It is.
Berni: And in that, learning a little bit from the other person as well.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: 'Cause I guess the process of sharing and all of a sudden we discover that there are some other ways of doing things and some better ways of doing things maybe than the ones we thought were the only way.
Keith: They have a closed mind. I've got a son who's a prophet and when he was studying at school, for the High School Certificate, he would put, do 2-hour blocks and maybe half a dozen in a day, 2 hour blocks. They're so disciplined right, they are and they have such high integrity that they actually have to realise there is another life.
Berni: There is another life and the way of stepping outside this is to take the time to work with people and to share with people. Keith, that's really good. Listen, tomorrow we're going to look at the last of these 7 deadly sins which is envy.