A Different Perspective Official Podcast

It seems in this fast changing world, that laziness couldn't possibly be a problem anymore. But certain people are truly prone to this sin. But they are and that's why it is one of the seven deadly sins.  And it's still deadly today.
We all have patches in life where we need to take our foot off the pedal, just a bit. That's natural, we can't keep running at a million miles an hour, otherwise we'd burn out. Then we're no good to ourselves or anyone else for that matter.
So yes, we all need to take a breather and make sure that we have plenty of rest and recreation. But sometimes, sometimes that kind of slips over the line and too much R and R, well we have a name for that. It's called laziness. Sloth in the old fashioned language. I like the sound of that word, 'sloth'. It's pretty confronting.
And as we're going to see on the program today, some people are more prone to laziness than others. And laziness, well it's like a disease or a cancer. Laziness turns us into couch potatoes. Instead of cooking, we watch TV shows about cooking. Instead of travelling, we watch shows about travelling. Instead of gardening, we watch other people doing gardening.
Instead of having a life, we watch other people having a life and kind of kid ourselves that we have a life too. But here's the paradox; laziness doesn't revive us like rest should. Laziness robs us. It drains us. It drains the life out of us. Whether in yesteryear when we called it sloth or today we call it laziness, doesn't matter what we call it, it robs us of life and it's deadly.
Berni: Well Keith, welcome to the program again today. Tell us about this "sloth" thing, didn't you love that word?
Keith: Yes.
Berni: They used to call it sloth, laziness.
Keith: That's right. Well we're all lazy up to a point. As you said, we have to rest. But laziness, in this term doesn't just mean lying on the couch watching the TV, eating chocolates, right. You can be very busy but you can be lazy.
Berni: Explain that.
Keith: Well, laziness in this term is more talking about putting off what you should do. You could be something else right, I should go and mow the lawn but I won't, I'll actually do something else. You know, there's priorities in life, there's big things that we should do and laziness is more talking about putting those things off 'til tomorrow.
Berni: So you never get around to it?
Keith: Yeah and tomorrow comes and you might put it off until the next day.
Berni: Okay. So why, why are some people more prone to that than others?
Keith: In personality, the one that Romans 12 calls "a teacher" is the one most prone to laziness because their priority is really to relate to people. They're the real relationship people. That's why they're called teachers. It doesn't mean they have to teach or they're the best teachers. But they really relate to spending time with people.
Therefore, if they have a priority of having to go to work or having to wash the car or do something and somebody calls up and says, "Lets go for a drink or a cup of tea", they're more likely to take the cup of tea option rather than what they should do.
Berni: So it's kind of like they're lazy about the mundane things in life that aren't the relationship orientated things which they enjoy.
Keith: Exactly. They're called the "procrastinators" and that's a really good description of them.
Berni: Oh, procrastinators drive me nuts (Both laugh)
Keith: You're the action person, the leader.
Berni: All you procrastinators out there watch out. (Said with humour)
Keith: But the funny part about it, you come from will Berni, the leader but they also come from will. Well ... they're wills first. But their will is to get along with people.
Berni: Yep.
Keith: So they will put off other things and not do what they should do. Now there's, we for instance, have at work, we have a girl who is a teacher personality and she can put things off. Now I told her about her personality the other day and I said, "How do you overcome procrastinating?" She said, "Oh, I make a list every day of what I should do and I put them in priority." Simple thing, we've all heard of and that's what teachers must do. They must have a list and they must do them, one by one, in the right order. Because what they'll try to do is to do the less important things first because they're easier. So it's mere laziness. Let's not take on the hard issues, let's take the soft issues first and we'll work our way up to the hard issues.
Berni: But we never do.
Keith: Never do, keep putting them off.
Berni: I thought you were going to say, when you asked her how she handles procrastination, she answered, "Ah, I'll think about it". (Both laugh)
Keith: Well hopefully she doesn't.
Berni: That's a hard one because I think we all put off the things we don't enjoy doing so much, don't you think? I mean, we all have things we don't much like doing.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: If you have a job that really fits your personality type well, 80% of it might but there's that 20% of stuff that you have to do. I mean someone said to me once when I was in business that I'm administratively recalcitrant, I don't enjoy the nuts and bolts of administration right, I just don't.
Keith: Too slow for you.
Berni: Well, yeah, it just doesn't flick my switch and so I will put those things off because I don't enjoy them so much. Is that what you're saying here with the procrastinator?
Keith: That's right.
Berni: Keith, I seem to have all of these things. Is there something wrong with me? (Both Laugh)
Keith: No, you major in one as we all do, we all major in one.
Berni: Right.
Keith: And so, the other thing with the teacher, what they can do is, they want to be peaceful and easy going because they like relating to everybody. So if there's some conflictive issue here, they will put that off and put it off, they don't want to face conflict because it robs them of their peace and their relationships, so they won't say anything to anyone.
Berni: The laziness thing is a bit cancerous isn't it because; in a sense it doesn't appear like a sin? You're just putting things off but you think about it, you put off your tax return and eventually the government comes knocking on your door.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: You put off paying the bills and eventually they turn the electricity off. You put off the things that you don't want to do and you don't enjoy eventually it all slips away. There's an interesting passage in Proverbs, chapter 24, have a listen to this:
I passed by the field of someone who's lazy, by the vineyard of a stupid person and see it was all overgrown with thorns ...
See, that doesn't happen overnight, does it? The thorns don't come overnight, the come in time.
... and the ground was covered with nettles and its stone walls were broken. Then I saw it and considered it, I looked and I received instruction. A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest and poverty will come upon you like a robber and want like an armed warrior.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: It creeps up on you very slowly, this particular sin, doesn't it? But eventually it bites.
Keith: It does and it bites because, one real reason, is they don't want to make decisions. You make a decision that I'm going to pull the weeds out today and you go and do it. They put off decision making.
Berni: I can't remember which Charlie Brown character it was but one of them said, "Nothing is so important that it can't be put off until tomorrow." (Both laugh)
Keith: That's right. That's a good definition of what laziness is.
Berni: So the solution is, that this woman gave you was, she actually does a list and tries to stick by her list.
Keith: She does and that's actually in 2 Peter 1, the virtue to overcome the laziness is to have that list and to persevere. It says actually patience but its perseverance, long suffering. And these are, that's why they're very good teachers.
They will persevere in showing you what you should do. Great people to show you what to do because they don't get annoyed with you. They'll persevere. And that's in all their life. They have to take on the perseverance and the patience to actually do them until they're finished.
Berni: Now Keith, this stuff is really making me think. I'm looking forward to next week. We're going to continue on the program next week, looking at some of the 7 deadly sins. But it seems like we're going under the covers here.
And I hope, if you've been with us this week, that you've really been thinking, "Ah, that one's me" or "Wow, I never realised that about myself or about my wife or about my husband or about my friend." And you're seeing how we're differently wired and each one of us has a different one of these 7 deadly sins that we have to struggle with.
And yet, each one God gives us a way out. Keith, thanks for joining us, you'll catch up with us again next week?
Keith: Love to.

Greed these days, at least in some circles, is almost a virtue, not a sin.  And yet greed is such a destructive force in this world.  That's why greed is one of the seven deadly sins.  And it's still deadly.
One of the most fascinating creatures alive on this earth is the stock market because it's a place where people trade shares in companies and it behaves so irrationally.
During the so called "dot com" boom, a few years back, people were paying exorbitant amounts of money for shares in companies that were losing money, hand over fist. It was all about getting a stake in the new economy, it was all about greed.
And then, during the huge boom that followed, people behaved as though there's no tomorrow. Eat, drink, be merry, they couldn't imagine another recession. But as surely as God made little green apples, it came. And billions, no trillions of dollars were wiped off the stock markets of the world in a matter of days.
Now, don't get me wrong, I believe very much in hard work and free enterprise. But if there were ever a beast that was like a massive neon sign advertising humanity's greed, it would have to be the stock market.
Fortunes made and lost. It seems that in the good times, greed isn't a sin or a vice, it's almost, well we applaud it. But when the bad times come, as surely they do, what we discover is this; greed is a sin and it's still deadly today.
Berni: Keith Henry, what do you think about greed?
Keith: Greed is one of those things that is very little understood because what you just described there could also be gluttony, where you want more money at the stock market. Greed, in this context, in terms of our personality, is not so much about wanting more; it's more about hoarding what you have.
It's being greedy and not sharing it because you don't think you'll have enough, right. So greed actually, is not gluttony, it's the opposite, it's actually hoarding. The problem here is, greed brings about fear or it's related to fear and with this greed, you hoard it so that you don't give it away, that you'll be able to survive.
Berni: Okay, not sharing nicely with the other children.
Keith: That's right.
Berni: Interesting, some proverbs, Proverb 15:27 says:
A greedy man brings trouble to his family but he who hates bribes will live.
And Proverbs 28:25:
A greedy man stirs up dissention but he who trusts in the Lord will prosper.
So it's interesting, it's what you're saying, it's this hoarding mentality that "I won't share and I won't give away" because God does call us to give a lot of what we get away.
Keith: That's right and that's where we hold onto it, I know I'll only give ten dollars in the plate today instead of a hundred because I might need the rest, I'll go for lunch, right, I need it for that. So it's not gluttony, greed is something, is based on fear, it's a fear that I won't have enough. It's a fear that actually, in the Bible, says, "if you doubt and have fear, you just won't prosper."
Berni: Fear's a destructive thing.
Keith: Totally destructive, one of the most destructive things and this is what greed's referring to, the destruction of fear and doubt.
Berni: So who, what sort of personality type, because over the last few days, what you've been telling us is, each of these particular 7 deadly sins is kind of hooked to one of the particular personality types. Some people are more prone to this than others. Who's the person who's most prone to greed?
Keith: The server.
Berni: Now that surprises me. (Keith laughs) Why the server?
Keith: Well the server is, comes from thinking, right. First of all they think a lot, more than any other type of personality and when you think, it's very easy to have fear because you think of what could go wrong. It's also, the server's not always the most extraverted people and they're a bit quieter.
And some servers need to actually, might be at a party but they need to get away from that, they need to have time alone, in other words, greed to get alone, so they can recharge the batteries. They're just not extraverts; they need to hoard themselves away from everybody for a time.
Berni: It's kind of weird because again, I mean yesterday we were talking about the encourager and I made the point, we love having encouragers around and I tell you, I love having servers around too because people who want to serve you, they're a delight to be with are they not?
Keith: Oh they are, they make our life easy don't they?
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: They do have a fear, they come from anxiety and worry. A server is looking at what can go wrong.
Berni: That makes sense.
Keith: Right, they can see things that we don't see, the potholes and things like that and so, they are looking from a fear perspective all the time.
Berni: Okay. And so that's what spills over, when you let that fear grip you too much, that's what spills over into the greed thing?
Keith: It does and then you start hoarding yourself, "I can't give anymore of myself. I can't give anything else away because I might need it. The stock market might crash tomorrow. I'll put my money in a bank." Or the parable of the talents, the person who buried the money in the soil.
Berni: Because they wouldn't put it at risk.
Keith: No, they don't want to risk anything. These are anti-risk people.
Berni: So the sort of person you want as an accountant maybe.
Keith: A lot of the people are accountants.
Berni: Oh really?
Keith: They're very analytical type people, they use their mind and analyse.
Berni: Okay. So okay, lets say I'm a server, I'm not but lets say I'm a server and let's say this fear is gripping me and let's say I've been listening to Keith Henry today and I'm thinking, "You know something, that thing that he's talking about is exactly what I go through". So now what Keith? What can the person who suffers from this do about it?
Keith: There is an answer in the Bible. In 2 Peter 1, which we mentioned before, the virtue is there, that you'll actually gain knowledge because, if you gain knowledge of the word of God, it's got to be the right knowledge, the knowledge can set you free.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Right. So they have to actually see what Gods word says. Then the other part, of course, is (we're talking about faith now), how do you get faith? You get it through the word of God, right, knowing more about the word of God.
Berni: I seem to get faith dangling off a cliff every time, you know (Both laugh) that's where I get my faith from brother and the word of God. Sorry to interrupt you.
Keith: That's all right but once you get the faith, you then set, the Bible says you must put into action; faith without action is dead.
Berni: But that's good for a server because a server is an action person, right?
Keith: Well they only action to serve you but in their own world, they're fearful or anxiety people, they hoard, the Bible says, 'now have faith and go out and do it'. So buy those shares or go out and see that person or go to that party or go to whatever. So, it has to be faith with action based on knowledge.
Berni: Okay, give me a really practical example. I'm struggling to grasp this one.
Keith: Take for instance a person who wants to invest in a company or want to start their own company. So what they have to do, they have to have a lot of faith to do that. So often they will analyse and gain more and more knowledge, become more fearful, see all the problems that they can fall into. They actually have to take the step, they have to have faith and take the step. It's not until they take the step that they can overcome their fear.
Berni: That's good. That's good, so fear kind of paralyses doesn't it?
Keith: Very good way of putting it, yeah.
Berni: Fear stops you like (Berni suddenly inhales) and you freeze. We all experience that sometimes and yet, what you're saying for the person who is the server, they just step out, use their gift; take the risk because the risk is not a risk if it's done in faith.
Keith: That's right. They analyse enough, they think about it enough but they think about it too much.
Berni: This is the "just do it".
Keith: Yeah, just do it and so greed is actually, comes from a basis of fear.
Berni: That's good. That was really good. Thank you for that Keith. Well tomorrow we're going to look at the next one in the list of the 7 deadly sins and that next one is laziness.

We rarely think of overeating – gluttony – as being one of the seven deadly sins. But it is. People are eating themselves to death.  I know – I used to be one of them.  Gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins.  And it's still deadly.
There's a certain brand of chocolate biscuits that you can buy in Australia, where I live. They're called Tim Tams. Now it's two biscuit wafers with a chocolate layer in between and the whole things wrapped in a casing of chocolate. And if I were to point to any food that I have an addiction to, Tim Tams would be it. Just as I talk about them I can picture them, smell them and feel the taste as they crunch around in my mouth.
Now of course, there's nothing wrong with the odd Tim Tam or any other food for that matter. In fact, without food we'd die of starvation and one of the amazing things that God's done, is that He's given us such an amazing variety of food.
Cereals, meats, vegetables, herbs, spices in an endless array, I mean incredible. One of the things I love to do is to try and cook a nice meal for my family, on weekends and to be creative. I love Thai food and Hungarian Goulash, fabulous.
But, and there is a "but", in western society today, we're eating ourselves to death. Obesity is rocketing and whilst people are living longer, on the whole, heart disease, diabetes, stroke, they're all on the increase.
Gluttony is not word we like to use, so old fashioned it seems, so judgemental. But gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins and whether we like it today or not, even in modern society, it's still deadly.
Berni: Well Keith, welcome to the program.
Keith: Thanks Berni.
Berni: We're talking about gluttony today. Tell us about gluttony, what's gluttony all about? Why, why do we over eat? What's motivating us to do that?
Keith: We want more and more and more basically and gluttony is basically about seeking what's pleasurable for you.
Berni: Okay,
Keith: You become a pleasure seeker so that you want more pleasure and less responsibility.
Berni: Well that fits pretty well with the sort of thinking of our times, doesn't it? You watch the ads on TV and it's all about 'you' isn't it?
Keith: It is, that's right; what you can get, what you can have. These are the consumers that use gluttony, they want to consume and use everything that they can.
Berni: Okay, so are you saying it's more than just food?
Keith: Yes it is. If we look at the 'encourager', their 7 deadly sin, the one that they major in, is gluttony because they want to consume as much as they can, they want to have as many ideas as they can. They want to keep moving, they don't want to stop moving because they have to think about what they're doing.
Berni: Hang on, let me just stop and think about that for a moment. The "encourager", tell me a bit about the "encourager", 'cause encouragers sound good.
Keith: Well they are, though they're happy people, the entertainers, the people at school when you went to school, they were always the stars. They could do anything, they never had to try, they're just good at school, good at sport, friends with everyone.
The trouble is, because they don't have to work hard at things, they're usually quite talented people; they want to now enjoy life. They're the "Peter Pans" of this world, never grow up.
Berni: Ah, okay, so it's kind of, isn't it funny how the personality type has this particular virtue and when you say to someone, "do you like encouragers?" Our answer is, "absolutely, we do!" I mean who doesn't like to be around an encourager?
Keith: That's right.
Berni: If I was going to be shipwrecked on a desert island, I think I'd pick an encourager instead of a leader to be around because they're nice to be around and yet, somehow, I just want you to help me make this linkage here between the encourager and this, this sin of gluttony. Why is again, that there's this particular linkage? Why is the encourager so prone to this over consumption, if we can call it that?
Keith: They're seeking pleasure all the time, they want to taste life, they want to taste everything that's pleasurable. Unlike a leader, who wants to challenge life, they don't want the challenge. They want the excitement, the taste and they want it to keep moving.
Berni: Alright, so the encourager wants all the pleasure, what's the down side of gluttony? What are the consequences of gluttony? I mean, I guess if we over eat, that's obvious.
Keith: Yes. The problem is that they never commit to doing anything or to finish everything. They want to, you know, eat as you said, they consume things. Or they come up with a million ideas and they keep running from one idea to the other. They never finish one and, because there's no responsibility there, they can just keep moving all the time and leave somebody else to clean up the mess.
In marriages, if you have an encourager, they can commit by the way, they're not always like this. but this is the sin of gluttony. In some marriages you'll have an encourager, they never have a regular job. They don't want to commit to something because it ties them down.
Berni: Okay, that's the down side, how do they get out of that 'cause there's a good side to being an encourager and I think this would be a horrible world without encouragers, wouldn't it?
Keith: Oh, it would. Everybody, as you said, wants to be around an encourager, they're positive people. They're excitement, as soon as they walk in the room, they're the ones that will make it fun. They're the fun people.
Berni: So, how do they, is there some virtue, is there some way that they can channel their energies and their passions and their desires, which kind of works against this sin, which minimises its affect and impact?
Keith: The virtue for them, as mentioned in 2 Peter 1, is temperance. Temperance is moderation, so they have to focus more. They're problem is they're not focusing, that instead of running to the next thing, they actually have to stop where they are and finish it.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: So moderation or temperance.
Berni: That must be hard for them to do though. That wouldn't be a natural thing for them to do, the encourager. If the encourager is the entertainer who runs onto the next idea, stopping and finishing would have to be something they learn?
Keith: Yes, they would have to learn it. In the Bible, it does say that we can overcome the lusts in the world by actually walking in the Spirit. So we can't do it naturally very well at all. We know what the answer is, we have to go moderation, we have to focus more but it's very hard for us to do and to overcome any of these 7 deadly sins. The only way to do it is to walk in the Spirit.
Berni: What does that mean in practical, give me a practical example? I'm an encourager, I work in a job, I have to finish off things before I can move onto the next. It's driving everyone crazy that I'm not doing that. I kind of know that I've got to do it but I just can't bring myself to get stuck in the detail. Is that what you're saying and finish it off? What do I do now? That's my problem, what do I do now?
Keith: Well, it's hard to do it, you have to train yourself and it's discipline. They don't have discipline in their lives; they have to start putting discipline in their lives.
Berni: Okay. It's not my particular gifting and so it's not my particular area of weakness. I'm someone who really likes to finish something off well. In fact, my school motto, which I've taken on as my life motto, is "age quod agis", "Whatever you do, do well", and so I can't relate to this one.
Keith: Well there is one way here, what they have to do. They're passionate people, instead of having 100 things they could do, find 1 thing that they can be really passionate about.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Focus on that 1 thing and then, they will be fulfilled, they will complete it.
Berni: That is good advice isn't it? That is really good advice. So if you happen to be an encourager out there and this is something you're struggling with, I think that was a fantastic bit of advice. Well Keith, thank you for that, join me again tomorrow and we're going to look at the next deadly sin on the list and that sin is greed.

Some people are particularly prone to the sin of lust. Not just sexual lust – but also a lust after life. And that lust can ruin relationships, marriages and our lives.  That's why lust is one of the seven deadly sins. And it's still deadly.
It seems that the more affluent we become and the more powerful we become, the more we think that really what matters is fulfilling our every desire. I was watching a program on TV the other night which was like a panel of advertising guru's analysing different TV ads. And what became evident, over and over again, is how those ads play on this insatiable craving we have to be successful and to have and to consume.
Whether it's a 4 wheel drive or a pair of shoes, these experts tap into a rich vein of desire in our hearts. And that's what makes the world go round. When it comes to advertising all the guru's tell you sex sells, right?
And pandering to these desires, well not only don't we see that there's anything wrong with it. Well there's an old fashioned word, that word is 'lust', which kind of describes this whole rampant desire thing.
I'm joined again today by my special guest, Keith Henry. Now Keith, what exactly does this word "lust" mean?
Keith: Well as you said Berni, lust can be sexual but it's a lot more than that. It's really a drive that you have that you want to tackle everything in life Berni. It also includes arrogance. It includes power 'cause you want to control things, you want to try to take on the world, to challenge the world. You want your way. And it's this excess where you're trying to get everything that you want and denying everybody else.
Berni: Okay, so there's sexual lust.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Now what sort of person is prone to this, this "lust" thing?
Keith: In Romans 12, it gives you the different personality types and one of them mentioned there is "leader". So a leader has to be strong, they have to take control. They have to have all these good points that, in sin in the world, we'd also take on the bad points and this is where lust comes in. That they want what they want not what somebody else wants.
Berni: It almost sounds, you're right, a leader does have to be strong, has to be very focused. People follow the leader and it's almost as though, if you take those gifts too far, then all of a sudden the virtue turns into a sin. Is that what you're saying?
Keith: Yeah. I think, in the world, we do start from the 'sin' point first and we want to participate in the divine nature, which is the proper leadership style in this case but we get corrupted by the sin. And the sin, it's very enticing, you know. You can have power over people, you can control people. You're a leader, people look up to you.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: You know it's very enticing.
Berni: Interesting. I just want to share a story with you from the book of 2 Samuel in the Bible. One that a lot of people might be familiar with:
One late afternoon, King David got up from taking a nap. He was strolling on the roof of the palace. From his vantage point on the roof he saw a woman bathing. That woman was stunningly beautiful. David sent and asked about her and was told, "Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah, the Hittite? And David sent his agents to get her. After she arrived he went to bed with her and then she returned home.
See David was probably the greatest leader Israel ever had.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right, he was the leader, absolutely. Everybody naturally followed David. What was his sin? (Berni clicks fingers) Lust.
Keith: Lust. He had the power, he had the control. People looked up to him and he wanted everything.
Berni: It sort of explains to me why some of these really high profile, both Church leaders and secular leaders, fall in this area. I mean Bill Clinton is a very obvious example...
Keith: Yes.
Berni: ... of a fabulous leader who clearly, this sin got the better of him.
Keith: It does. And all sorts of evangelists and people prominent. If you're prominent you have to be very careful, especially if you're a leader. These are the people that can tackle anything. They're the people that climb the mountains and you think,"'Why would you want to climb a mountain?" A lot of personality types think, "why would I want to do that?" No, they want to conquer things. See it's in their personality to go out and challenge and take control of things in people.
Berni: And you do, you actually want a leader to do that, don't you?
Keith: You do.
Berni: If you're following someone who is a leader, you want them to be in control. If a leader is weak, I mean you see it in political parties. If the leader is weak the party gets rid of that leader and puts in a new one because they actually want a strong leader.
Keith: They do.
Berni: So, there's nothing wrong with that is there?
Keith: No. We don't have enough good leaders. We need leaders and whatever it is, in the parliament or Church or whatever area, we need leaders. There's not enough good ones and we do need good leaders. There's an interesting verse in Proverbs 6:27 that says:
Can a person take fire to the bosom and his garments and not be burnt?
These people that play with fire and it can destroy them.
Berni: Yep. So what do they do about that? I mean, if you're a leader and you know you have a weakness in this area. Either its sexual and a lot of men do, a lot of men are caught up in pornography, right? It's a massive, in fact pornography, someone said, accounts for 80% of internet traffic. Pretty scary! So, if someone's caught up in that or just the lust of power or the lust for life or for the lust for, 'just go out there and get it', what can they do about that?
Keith: Well, the way out is to participate in the divine nature. In this we have to set our hearts on. Now, ours sins are passions. So what's our passion, is our passion worldly or is our passion Godly? And the way out of it for the leader is to focus on becoming Godly and in 2 Peter 1, it does actually have the virtues there and it says we can participate in divine nature and escape the lust in the world caused by evil desire, the corruption of the world.
But the way for the leader is to become very magnanimous. In other words, very giving and working for others not for what they want because they'd get anything almost, these are the leaders.
Berni: That's the temptation isn't it?
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: You can get anything because you're a leader.
Keith: Yeah, so are you going to work for others or are you going to work for yourself? Become Godly, God works for other people.
Berni: Mmm, I was just thinking about that because, I think in the work force where I've worked and there are some leaders and you know they have your interests at heart and actually, they're the ones that you have a real heart to follow.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: That's what you're saying isn't it?
Keith: Yes.
Berni: It's the leader who almost sees himself, or herself, as the servant of the people who are following him or her.
Keith: Yes, and that's the way, to become a servant or actually, to become more of a giver, you know because you've got lots to give. You know a leader has a lot to give, they have so much more energy, so much more everything than anybody else and they have to give it to others.
Berni: That's fascinating! So as a leader, you can decide to go off and manipulate and control and run over the top of people and 9 times out of 10 you'll get your way, yeah?
Keith: Yep. Who wants to fight a leader? Most personalities don't.
Berni: Another leader.
Keith: Only another leader because, you know what? They enjoy it because they like to test things out and challenge things.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: And if you, as a leader, walk into a party, you know a room and first of all, you'll sense where the power is in that room.
Berni: Isn't that fascinating?
Keith: Or in a board meeting, you'll know where the power is and you'll watch and you'll try and conquer that power so that you're in charge.
Berni: Isn't that fascinating and the way to change that, the way to deal with this particular deadly sin of lust for power and lust for everything else is to say, "I'm going to take the gifts that I have and become a servant with them."
Keith: Not selfish, yeah that's right. Become a server, give it away and give it to others and don't be self focused.
Berni: That is just amazing. You know, God does, isn't it amazing, God does things and changes you. When you go after Him and you start focusing on Him and serving others, He fixes a whole bunch of things behind you that you don't even have to think about. He is amazing!

Funny thing, but each one of us knows we have a particular weak spot.  Maybe it's envy or anger or pride.  Whatever.  And it turns out, that each particular personality type is particularly prone to one of the seven deadly sins.  Which one is yours?
Over the last couple of thousand years a whole bunch of things has changed in society. The way we look at people, women for instance, in most parts of the world are treated much, much better today than they were way back when. Slavery, it's no longer an accepted norm in most parts of the world. Many things have changed for the better but that's not always the case.
In this so called, "modern society" we've shifted the morality line, the line between good and bad, quite a way. Even over the last 50 years. Today we're happy to say, "this goes" when back then, it didn't. Is that good or bad?
I guess from where I sit, it doesn't matter when or where or who we are, some things will always be wrong. If I picked up a venomous snake 2 thousand years ago and it bit me, well the poison was deadly. And if I picked up that same breed of snake today and it bit me, guess what; it's still deadly.
Over the last few weeks on the program we've been looking at breaking free from the power of sin. Not some old fashioned concept of an irrelevant Church, it's the stuff that we know is wrong, the stuff that ruins our lives, the stuff that's like a poisonous venom that pumps through our veins.
And so this week and next week, on the program, we're going to take a look at what are known as the 7 deadly sins. Because you know something, it doesn't matter who we are, where we are or whatever; they're still deadly.
And I'm joined on the program today by a special guest, Keith Henry.
Berni: Keith, welcome!
Keith: Thanks Berni.
Berni: Now listen; you've spent a bit of time in your life kind of figuring out how people tick and the different personality types. Why is that? Why have you done that?
Keith: About 10 years ago I was asked to talk, at a Church camp, on what our gifts are and I didn't want to do it but you know when it's a calling of God, you can't get out of it. So I studied it and gave a talk on it. Then I was captured, I wanted to know more myself, I realised I only knew so much.
But when I started teaching people about what their gift was, the whole personality issue came out. It's not just what your gift is but who are we? You know, what do we think about? What grabs our attention? In this case, what's our deadly sin?
Because there's one sin, more than the others, even though we have all of them right but there's one sin more than others, for each personality, that really is your main sin that you have to combat.
Berni: Interesting! The Bible actually talks about personality types in Romans chapter 12, verses 6-8, doesn't it? The person who wants to prophecy, the person who serves, the teacher, the encourager, the giver, the leader, the administrator. So even, even way back then God was telling us that we have different personality types. So is your observation, as you've studied, that we certainly are hard wired, each differently?
Keith: Yes, in our nature. There's nature and nurture. In our nature we're actually made and hard wired with a real motivation, a real gift and a temperament which is our style.
Berni: Hang on, you rushed over those. A motivation,
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: A gift and a temperament, just explain those.
Keith: Well, motivation is what drives us. We all have a drive and in those, each of those personality areas in Romans 12, there's actually 7 drives.
Berni: Okay, let's say I'm an encourager, what's my drive?
Keith: Your drive there is to find fulfilment in what you're doing. Doesn't have to be money, doesn't have to be, it could be saving the whales, right? It could be anything.
Berni: Okay, so if I'm a leader, what's my motivation?
Keith: Your motivation there is to have power and control.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: You want to control your environment.
Berni: Okay, so there's the personality type, there's the motivation, now what was the other thing you said?
Keith: There's temperament.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Because we all have a style. If you look at the temperaments such as sanguine, choleric etc., we all fit into one of those areas. And that's a style that we have. Are we really out there or are we quiet and sit behind the scenes?
Berni: Oh, I'm quiet and shy myself.
Keith: No. (Berni laughs) No you're not. (Keith laughs)
Berni: Well I try and tell people I am.
Berni: Okay, so we all have a different personality type, do you think that people really, by and large, understand that about themselves? Do you think the average person says, "Well actually, I know that I'm a leader or I know that I'm a caregiver?" You know, do people understand that about themselves or not?
Keith: Unfortunately, because we have cultural influences, that sort of wipes a bit of our hard wiring away and it could be you know, your family, your school, your Church, your friends. Whatever you grow up in it tends to take the attention away from who you are. I would say, if I could just pick a figure out of the air, 99% of people have no idea who they are.
Berni: Isn't that scary?
Keith: It's terrible.
Berni: I mean, everyone's striving for fulfilment in some way, shape or form.
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: If we don't, I know for a lot of my life, you know I didn't really know what my 'shtick' was, what my 'gig' was, what I would be good at. Tried a whole bunch of things, some of them I wanted but they weren't particularly satisfying. And you get to the age, 36, 40, 50 even and people still don't know.
Keith: Well that's one of the reasons too that people have mid life crisis.
Berni: Ahh.
Keith: Because they, they work it and get somewhere but they then realise, "this isn't me, I don't want this and where do I go now? What do I do?" and they try and change. Maybe a divorce, maybe going out into the country and get away from it all, whatever, but you can't run away from who you are.
Berni: No.
Keith: You've got to find out who you are.
Berni: But who we are also has some down sides doesn't it? There's a flip side to the coin for each personality type.
Keith: There is. We've got our hard wired or Gods standard that we're supposed to meet that in the culture that we live, it doesn't come anywhere near close to the "God standard". But there is a pathway through that sin, that loss of things, that we can find who we are. We can find out how God has made us because God's made us, as you say, to be the person that He's made us to be. How do we find that?
Berni: Okay, we're going to be talking about the 7 deadly sins and Keith's going to be joining me over these next couple of weeks to talk about those things because, what I've found is, he meets you and within about 10 minutes he's got you sized up so accurately, its frightening. In fact, my wife is afraid of meeting him (both laugh).
Okay, let's look at the 7 deadly sins, let's say, give me an example, let's say I'm an encourager, which I'm not. But let's say I'm an encourager. What's my particular down fall?
Keith: The deadly sin that mostly affects an encourager is gluttony.
Berni: All right, okay. Well we're going to look at that specifically but quickly, why gluttony?
Keith: Okay, it's not just gluttony of food, it's gluttony of wanting too much of everything. In this case it could be too many ideas.
Berni: Okay, well what about a leader, what's the sort of deadly sin the leader struggles with?
Keith: The leader struggles with lust because, as we said, what drives them is to have power and control. They are the adrenaline junkies.
Berni: Oh okay, I relate to that.
Keith: (laughing) I know you do.
Berni: I'm your "run through the brick wall" sort of person.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: So I relate to that.
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: Yeah. Okay and what about someone who's a server, someone who wants to serve people, what's the downside of their particular personality type?
Keith: The server is from greed. But it's not greed that they, like gluttony, that they want more and more. It's actually a greed of hoarding which means fear.
Berni: Okay, you see, it seems to me so important because we try, people believe in Jesus right? A lot of them do and you try and you live your life for Him and then you fail and you keep failing in one particular area.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: And you feel like you're all alone but actually, what you're saying to us is, that the different personality types, well you can almost predict, fairly accurately, what the particular sin is going to be that that person falls into.
Keith: You can. And it's interesting. If I'm in a, say a dinner with some people and you start talking about things like that, about who they are, they either react "I want to know more" or they withdraw from you, "This fellow knows to much about me". If they want to know more it's a lot of fun.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: You know, finding out who they are.
Berni: Well we're going to have that fun over the next couple of weeks because we're going to go through each of these 7 deadly sins, one by one and I'm really looking forward to it.
Keith: So am I Berni.