A Different Perspective Official Podcast

You've probably heard of the Seven Deadly Sins.  Sounds old fashioned, but actually those same seven are tearing people's lives apart. Which one are you most prone to, and how can you break free from its clutches?
Over this last week and a half on the program, we've been spending some time looking at what are called the "seven deadly sins". Not because we want to do a guilt trip, not because we want to bandy round some seemingly old fashioned word like "sin" but because sin ruins our lives and the seven deadly sins that we've been talking about over these last couple of weeks certainly do that.
Lust, gluttony, greed, laziness, anger, envy and pride; seven of the deadliest. That's the problem with sin, it robs us of life itself. Spend your time being angry all the time, what joy are you going to have? Do the gluttony thing and the weight will ruin your health and quality of life. Lust ruins marriages. On it goes; sin ruins lives, it's plain and it's simple.
I just want to spend some time today with Keith Henry again, our special guest, being honest about the consequences. Tomorrow, we're going to look at the wondrous, beautiful solution but today, let's get real about the consequences. What do you think Keith, do you think that we try and sweep them under the carpet, these sins sometimes?
Keith: I think we can but also think that we don't know what to do about them and secondly we don't feel we have any power to do something about them.
Berni: You see, what strikes me is, let's assume for a moment, God made us, right. Let's assume for a moment God knew what He was doing, didn't make a mistake.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right, what all the experts, including yourself, tell us is that each personality type is prone to a particular one of these downfalls. It's almost like each personality type has a good side but there's an underside.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: So the sin of lust is one that the leader is prone to. Gluttony, what personality type, remind me, is prone to gluttony?
Keith: Encourager.
Berni: The encourager. Greed.
Keith: Is the server, it's a fear.
Berni: Yeah. Laziness.
Keith: Is the teacher.
Berni: Anger.
Keith: Is the prophet.
Berni: Envy.
Keith: Is the carer.
Berni: And pride.
Keith: Is the giver.
Berni: See, each one of those is prone to one of those sins. What was God thinking, I wonder sometimes, giving us each one of those sins? See, God doesn't have any sin in Him and yet He creates personality types and we all end up with a particular Achilles heel, if you like.
Keith: We do but I don't think God made us to actually have these things, it's actually in the form of our culture and our nature that is not divine, we have these sins which manifest in our personality, more so in 1 personality than in another and God provides the way out.
Berni: Yeah, we're going to talk about that. I was interested though, one of the passages that's always drawn me to it is in 2 Corinthians, chapter 12 and I want to share this with you. This is the apostle Paul, 2 Corinthians 12, beginning in verse 7:
Therefore to keep me from being too elated, (writes Paul) a thorn was given me in my flesh, a messenger of satan to torment me and keep me from being too elated. 
Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would leave me but He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in your weakness." So I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamities for the sake of Christ. For whenever I am weak then I am strong.
The fist few hundred times I read this passage I thought this thorn in the flesh must be, maybe he's got a limp or maybe there's something wrong with his hip or maybe he's sick or whatever but the more I read it, this thorn in the flesh and the word he uses there, for flesh, is the same word that Paul uses elsewhere for the sinful nature.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right. "As a messenger of satan to torment me". The more I read that, the more I'm thinking Paul's actually talking about some sin that he's dealing with and we read elsewhere where Paul writes he struggles to do the right thing, same struggles as you and I have and everybody else has and 3 times Paul goes and says, "God, take it away", and God says, "Well no actually, you know what the answer is, the answer is not me taking this away, the answer is that my grace is sufficient for you and my power becomes perfect in your weakness." Isn't that awesome?
Keith: It is, isn't it?
Berni: And I look at my sins and my weaknesses and the flaws in my character and I think, "You know, God wants to use me anyway even though I have these weaknesses." How do you respond to this passage?
Keith: I agree with you, I think "flesh", the word there is referring to his nature and if we think, from reading about Paul, that he really has a prophet personality, he's very black and white, there's one right way, one wrong way. So his real sin there that God could be talking about is anger, where he resents things not being perfect.
Berni: And you see him getting angry, in the Scriptures, when he's writing to some of these Churches, don't you?
Keith: Yes ... he pulls them up, doesn't he?
Berni: I was going to ask you what personality type you thought Paul was, the prophet. He is a pretty "in your face" kind of guy.
Keith: He is and I know myself, when I've suffered a weakness, a physical weakness or something like that, you do become strong. You become humble, I often say to my wife, "I'm a better person when I'm suffering."
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: 'Cause it's not about me anymore.
Berni: Yeah. Although you don't want to be there all your life.
Keith: No, you don't do you?
Berni: No, you don't say, "God, I want to suffer." (Both laugh)
Keith: No, you want to be free from it but you want to also have the personality that participates in the nature of God, not in our own selfishness or in Paul's case, that resentment, that anger.
Berni: Yeah, I come back to what God said to Paul and I think God's saying it to each one of us. You know, we each have different personality types and we each have an Achilles heel don't we? We each have something, whether it's anger or envy or lust or gluttony or, whatever it is, each one of us, kind of, relates to one of those. We go, "you know something, I really don't want to admit this to anyone but that's me."
Keith: That's right.
Berni: And God's saying to us here, "I know, I made you, you are no surprise to me", and Paul goes and says, "God, you know the best thing would be if you took this away" and God says, "well no, actually the best thing would be Paul, is if you experience my grace instead and if you start to become like Me because the power that I have for you, that power becomes perfect when you're weak." And Paul says, "zippidy-doo-da", and it's almost, we need to accept who we are, good and bad.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: I don't want to revel, I don't want to live in my sin, I don't want to, I want God to deal with that but Gods saying, "I'll deal with it, in my way, in my time. In the mean time, my grace is sufficient for you." What an awesome God.
Keith: He is, He's the one that provides the way out for everything.
Berni: Yeah, and that grace, that grace is hanging there on the cross, that grace is Jesus Christ nailed, His flesh nailed to a cross suffering a painful death to pay for my sin, to pay for your sin, to pay for everybody's sin. That grace is sufficient for Paul, it's sufficient for Keith Henry, it's sufficient for Berni Dymet, it's sufficient for all of us and Gods power is what ultimately changes us.
Keith: I think the whole point of the Bible is that we are to become more like Christ every day. That's our nature; our personality has to change to be more like God. We can't do it but God can do it.
Berni: We cannot and that's what we're going to look at, tomorrow, on the program. Keith, it's been great to talk to you.
Keith: Thank you Berni.

Pride is an ugly thing – but these days, it's almost a virtue. I mean on the one hand should we be delighted when we succeed at something? Sure, but pride takes that delight to a different level.  That's why it's one of the seven deadly sins. And let me tell you, it's still deadly.
Interestingly, the other week I was being interviewed by an editor of a magazine, sharing what God was doing through this ministry, Christianityworks, that I'm involved in. And the interviewer said to me, "You must be incredibly proud of what you've achieved!"
I was horrified, mortified. I said, "No, no, you haven't been listening to me. It's what God's been doing. I've had the privilege of being involved but most days you know, I feel much more like a bystander than a participant. All the really big things that have happened have been so far beyond anything we could ever have achieved as people."
What I experience in my heart, when I look at that, is a quiet contentment and a joy of looking back to see what I have been allowed to have some part in. But not proud. After the interview I had a good think. You see, before I met Jesus in my life 13 years ago, I was proud of everything I'd had achieved. And I had achieved a lot in my business career. Problem is, it all fell down like a house of cards.
It seems it's something of a virtue these days, to be proud. It's good for our self esteem and yet, the truth be known, pride is a sin and it's still deadly.
Berni: Joined on the program today, again by Keith Henry. Keith thanks for joining us.
Keith: Pleasure Berni.
Berni: Now listen, you're a bit of a guru. Tell me about this "pride" thing. What's that about? I mean what sort of person is prone to pride? Why do we get proud?
Keith: Well, as you said, it's very rife in our communities at the moment. And when you look at pride and you think of, for instance, the Olympics or some sporting event. People who get a gold medal would rightly, you'd think, be very proud of what they've achieved.
Berni: Sure.
Keith: But it can be a false sense of ability because we all know what you're good at today can be robbed from you tomorrow. We have to give credit to, you know, a lot of other people who got us there as well as what we've done in ourselves.
And in Christianity, if you're a big name preacher, well it's not pride in what you're doing, it's "proud", as you said, in what God has done through you and you've been able to be a part of it. And so pride, really is a very worldly sort of terminology. And with pride comes entitlement, right. If I've achieved something therefore I'm entitled to something.
Berni: Yeah, it's like all about me.
Keith: Exactly.
Berni: As though, as though it ever is all about you. It's really quite bizarre. One of the things I really dislike intensely is the tennis players and the swimmers who win and they kind of, you know how they lift their hand up and they point at themselves like, "It's all about me". And I think, "Mate, that is just so not, not the case".
Keith: It isn't, they can lose the next point can't they, very easily?
Berni: Exactly.
Keith: Reality's round the next point. But in the, in the giftings of what type of gift you are, you know.
Berni: Yeah, what sort of personality type suffers from this?
Keith: Okay, the one that you wouldn't think about is the giver.
Berni: The giver suffers from pride?
Keith: Yes, that's right.
Berni: That's weird.
Keith: It is because when you think about it, a giver is a person who is very, very good at sensing your needs and what they do. It's not just giving of money, it's giving their time and their ability. They are the great "behind the scenes" people.
Berni: Yep.
Keith: You know you might happen to be the Managing Director of a big company, your personal assistant is the giver.
Berni: Yep, yep.
Keith: And people say you can't get through to the Managing Director unless you go through the gateway.
Berni: Yes.
Keith: They control everything. They are the power behind the scene.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: They are the ones that, they think, can think, that really runs the company.
Berni: Yeah, okay, and I guess if you had someone who give financially to support some philanthropic work or ministry, they can ending up saying, "Well actually, if it wasn't for me they wouldn't be in business."
Keith: That's right and then they start wanting entitlement, "I want you now to do it my way."
Berni: Yeah, okay, they want to control the way in which the giving is used.
Keith: That's right. So they actually try and become a "behind the scenes leader" where they want to use power and control but not be out the front.
Berni: Now we're not saying all givers are bad.
Keith: No.
Berni: We're just saying this is, 'cause givers, we need givers in this world, we need people who give of their time and their money and their abilities because it would be a sad old world without the giver but this is the downside of their personality type I guess.
Keith: That's the downside.
Berni: It's the Achilles heel.
Keith: Yeah but here, another really good giver was Mother Theresa.
Berni: Right.
Keith: You might think she was a carer. Well she was actually a giver because they both come from emotions, the emotional side, so they both have sensitivity, a very high sensitivity. Then Mother Theresa could sense the needs of the people and she went out and physically did something to help them overcome their problems.
Berni: Okay. Well if pride is, is one of the 7 deadly sins, how is it deadly? What's the impact of pride?
Keith: The impact is one, mainly of payment, "I do this for you, I expect you to do this for me."
Berni: Quid pro quo
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: Rather than giving freely.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Giving with strings attached.
Keith: Very much so. The more a person starts to give and somebody else becomes dependant on them, then they want.
Berni: Okay and I guess that's destructive because that's not what giving should be about, is it?
Keith: No, in the Bible in 2 Peter 1, where the virtues are, it actually says that the giver should have kindness, brotherly kindness.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: So they should be kind without expecting anything in return for their giving. And that's when they're fulfilled. They participate in the divine nature once they use their ability to give. And you and I and lots of people know if you're married to a giver, as we both are, or if you have a giver in your life somewhere, they are the most wonderful people. They can spoil you and make life easy for you. And they love spending time with you, love helping you, they're called the helpers, the real helpers. And so they're so valuable but they're not to look at what they can get out of it. They do it because that's their gift, as we all do, to use our gift.
Berni: And I know some givers you know, invariably when you give to Gods work, somehow God just makes it that the timing is so amazing, that it just came at the right time or was just the right amount or whatever it is. And the person who gives, who gives in faith, that must be such a buzz for them when they find that out.
Keith: Yes. Well it's the ultimate in non-selfishness isn't it to actually give? Especially money. We're a money society, especially give your money, you know that really is hard and so they find it easier. They can give to so many causes and if they have a sensitivity to sense that this person really needs something at this moment, they can sense it, they can do it.
Berni: You know, it just amazes me how, I guess, each of these different 7 deadly sins seems to pop up in the lives of the sorts of people you and I wouldn't expect.
Keith: That's right, that's exactly right. It's not always the way it's interpreted if you think of envy and all those other things. It's not really the way it's normally interpreted.
Berni: Tomorrow we're going to sort of recap and go through each one of these 7 deadly sins, just quickly to summarise because there's been a lot there for me. And if you've been with us over these last week and a half or so, the insights that Keith's shared with us have been really, truly amazing. So, it's been a blessing, we'll catch you again tomorrow Keith.
Keith: Thanks Berni.

Envy is probably one of the most destructive of all emotions.  We see something someone else has and we want it.  Wars have been fought over envy. That's why it numbers amongst the seven deadly sins.  And it's still deadly.
I imagine that envy, envy is one of those emotions, no, lets not call it an emotion, lets call it what it really is. Envy is one of those sins that we experience from our earliest childhood. Little Johnny next door has a new toy car and I want it or little Sarah next door has a brand new doll and you want it.
So we envy what they have, we want to get our hands on what they have and then we grow up and it's so easy to envy the things that other people have or how they look or who they're married to or what other people think of them, so easy.
You may have heard me say this before but I really used to suffer from this, I couldn't stand it, I hated it when someone else had something that I couldn't have.
You stand back and you think about it and you realise two things about envy. Firstly, it doesn't have a single redeeming feature, it's just plain ugly and secondly, it's an incredibly destructive sin.
While I envy what you have and you envy what I have, we can't have any trust between us. There can't be any closeness or friendship, it robs us of the most important thing of all; relationship. Envy has always been a deadly sin and you know something; today, right here and now, it's still deadly.
Berni: I'm joined today again by Keith Henry. Keith thanks for joining us.
Keith: Pleasure Berni.
Berni: It's been such a blessing. You know, Keith has some real insights about these 7 deadly sins. It's not because he specialises in each one of them or anything like that. Keith's spent the last 10 years of his life, really understanding our different personality types we have and what it turns out is that each different personality type has one particular sin that it specialises in. Now Keith, tell us about envy, what's this envy thing all about, where does it come from, where does it start from?
Keith: Envy, I believe, is one of the most misunderstood of the 7 deadly sins and as you said, one of the most destructive. Only because people don't know a way out of it and the secret is, envy is really love of what other people have. It comes back to that 'love' point of view, God is love and in envy, we love what somebody else has. But when you get it, often you don't want it. It's one of those things, 'I want it when I can't get it, when I do have it, I don't want it anymore'.
Berni: It's really interesting, envy, I was reading something the apostle Paul wrote in Galatians chapter 5, have a listen. He says:
The works of the flesh are obvious; sexual immorality, impurity, licentiousness , idolatry, sorcerery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger.
Quite a list: Quarrels, dissention, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing and things like that. I'm warning you against them.
Interesting that envy numbers amongst those sorts of sins; idolatry, sorcerery, strife, jealousy, anger, envy. It's right up there.
Keith: It is. Envy's in the mind, this is what makes it so strong. Envy is a sensitivity to something and people who have envy are very, very much live in their mind, they're thinking and often in the past.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: They actually re-do or re-think things that have happened in the past and put a different slant on it so that they are envious of, they should have had that, why didn't they have it? What was wrong with me? And it brings about shame and guilt and all the destructive forces. Envy is terrible, all the deadly sins are terrible but this one is the hardest one to overcome.
Berni: So what sort of person is more prone to envy than another?
Keith: It's funny, when you ask that question, 'cause you don't really expect the answer. In the Bible, in Romans 12 where it talks about the 7 personality types, it's actually the carer and who do we think the carer is? The carer is that lovely, sweet...
Berni: That is bizarre!
Keith: ... kind. It is isn't it? Because in their personality, the carer wants to be unique, they want to be special, they want to be different and they can see things that are special, that are different that we can't, that sensitivity level is the highest of all personalities and so they actually,
Berni: Makes sense.
Keith: Yeah and what happens is they can see it, like if you were hurting right now, in your feelings, you have a problem, I wouldn't see it, they would and they'd start asking you questions. They want to help people, they have a natural inclination to help people but when they're not doing that they can get depressed easily, they have bi-polar, they can, they could commit suicide if it got really bad. It's so, so destructive because they're thinking all the time and regurgitating things.
Berni: They're emotionally sensitive.
Keith: They're very emotionally sensitive.
Berni: And there's an upside to that and there's a downside to that.
Keith: Well the upside to it is the carer is one of the nicest, happiest, fulfilled people out. The way out of this is, see, as I said at the start is, envy is a love of what other people have and what I don't have.
Berni: Before we talk about the way out I want to understand why it is that someone whom we all love, the carer, the one who pulls alongside and spends the time with us and all sorts of stuff, why is it particularly the carer who is prone to envy, why?
Keith: Because of their sensitivity. They see things in it, they have a real appreciation for creativity for instance and for music and things like that, that we don't have and they see things in the world that we don't have sensitivity for.
Berni: Okay and so I guess, because they see things so deeply they latch onto them and they want them.
Keith: That's right, they do and they want to be special.
Berni: Okay, so what's the way out, I mean if someone's, it almost must be a Jeckel and Hyde thing, on the outside they're so loving and so warm and on the inside, this envy thing must eat away like a cancer.
Keith: It is, it's a bit like the leader is an adrenaline junkie, you know just wants to do things that challenge them and gets adrenaline going. This is the closest, in a way, you wouldn't think it but this is the closest in the way to the leader in terms of that. They want the highs and lows because they have the feeling sensitivity, they want to go up and then come down and realise what it's like again and go up again. They're going, they're sensitivity...
Berni: A sort of cyclotronic type of.
Keith: Yeah.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Yeah and the way out of it is the way that you enter it. Envy is love of other things, the actual way out of it is, being a carer, is love of God but love of others, to care for them. They have the sensitivity to see where you're hurting, they have the sensitivity to help you and so they have to, if they take it away from themselves, this is the only way out for them. They actually have to focus on using that sensitivity to help people and to not take things as "somebody's had a go at me" all the time.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: Because they're sensitive, you could say something and not mean it, they take it and they run away.
Berni: They're over sensitive sometimes.
Keith: Over sensitive.
Berni: See, interesting, before I became a Christian I was always very envious. Now I'm not a carer by any stretch of the imagination but I did experience envy. I hated it when other people succeeded and I didn't think about it much but when I became a Christian, God turned my life around and I began to serve other people.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: It's just what I do now and I get so much fulfilment, envy's just gone, it doesn't exist anymore for me. I love it when other people succeed now and I never thought about it.
Keith: That's the divine nature. See the Bible says we should participate in the divine nature. Divine nature is centered on focusing on other people. You've stopped focusing on yourself Berni and now you're fulfilled. You were never fulfilled ...
Berni: No.
Keith: ... when you focused on yourself.
Berni: Never, ever. Alright, we're going to talk tomorrow about another of the 7 deadly sins, in fact, the last one and this one is pride and I've got to tell you Keith, I keep running into these and think, "I remember that one too!" So I'm really interested to see what you have to say about pride tomorrow.
Keith: Look forward to it Berni.

You don't have to look very far to figure out that anger is something that's hitting society in plague proportions. Everybody seems to be angry. Anger is one of the seven deadly sins. And it's still deadly.
Every now and then we all get angry, we just do. It's a natural human emotion, in fact, you read a bit about God in His word, the Bible, and you discover God gets angry. Jesus became so angry he made a whip and drove the money changers and the traders out of His Father's house, the Temple of God in Jerusalem.
So anger is natural, it happens when one person wrongs another person and yet, if we let anger get the better of us, if we live constantly in anger, it's pretty ugly.
I have a dear friend and his particular weakness is anger. In fact, I have to say, I used to be a very angry person and you know something, if we're angry all the time we just can't enjoy life. In fact, angry people can't easily have relationships with other people.
Angry people, well they tend to be very lonely people because no-one trusts them. People don't know when they're going to be on the end of that next angry outburst. Anger may well be justified, although often it's not, but if that's where we live all the time, it's really very ugly.
Today, as always, anger is a particularly deadly sin.
Berni: What do you reckon Keith?
Keith: It is Berni; nobody wants to be around an angry person. They're very threatening and we try and avoid being around them and you would think the leader personality would be the one that would have the anger, the most anger.
Berni: Yeah, you would, I mean because the leader is a sort of personality that's driving towards a conclusion and would get frustrated with people who don't come along.
Keith: That's right but it's outside anger right, so they voice it to anybody or anything that gets in their way because they want to get rid of them. But the anger we're talking about today, in terms of the 7 deadly sins, is an internal anger, right. It's given to the, for instance, the prophet.
The prophet is likely to be angry because they can see justice or they can see what's fair or what's right, have integrity and things aren't correct. They're very black and white people, the prophet.
Berni: Now explain a prophet to me. By the way Keith Henry's joining me this week; I forgot to tell people that you were joining me Keith. Keith's a bit of a guru, he's done a bit of, quite a bit of study haven't you, about personality types and particular strengths and weaknesses, that's your gig isn't it?
Keith: It is, for about 10 years, studied that and talk on that but getting back to the prophet here Berni, the prophet is a particular personality type, next door to the leader I call them because they are managers, they can manage.
Berni: Right.
Keith: Not the leader who breaks down the wall and leads the team out, they're actually the manager who can manage with integrity, right and that's the important thing; a prophet has integrity.
Berni: A sort of gyroscope of right and wrong.
Keith: Exactly, there's only one right way, there's only one wrong way therefore there's no shades of grey.
Berni: I relate to that a little bit.
Keith: Well it's next door to you.
Berni: Okay.
Keith: Right, in personality but when we talk about anger here, both the prophet and the leader come from will, they're strong willed people. But the will and the anger for the leader goes outward, against anything, the anger we're talking about here, the deadly sin, is internal in the prophet.
Berni: It's a seething anger.
Keith: It is and can build resentment.
Berni: Yeah that would be very destructive, wouldn't it?
Keith: It can be very destructive. Not only for them but also, if they start letting it out to ... you know "you're not doing it right, you must do it this way" type of attitude; well it puts people down very much.
Berni: We all kind of know people who seethe away and seethe way and bubble away and all of a sudden explodes, is that what happens here with that sort of anger?
Keith: Yes it is, it is a bubbling away anger, it's an internal anger and because they only, as I said, they only see one right, one wrong therefore you must do it that way. I've got a good example here actually, there's 1 person I know who covers books right.
Berni: Right.
Keith: At a school and they cover them very diligently, they're a prophet personality and there's only one way to cover a book.
Berni: The right way isn't it?
Keith: It's the right way and it is perfect, it's the best book cover you ever see. We actually happened to import and sell a book covering machine that can do 80 books an hour, would never even look at it because it's not perfect they way that they can do it. So, would never consider it, that they could actually free the school up, to get all the books covered.
Berni: Yep.
Keith: They would rather take them home at night and keep doing it because there's only one way to do it.
Berni: Yeah, yeah, the right way and of course the hard thing with that is, the rest of the world doesn't function that way. The rest of the world does what the rest of the world wants to do and so this must eat away at the prophet type personality because the prophet type personality is the person that wants to speak out the right way.
And if you look at the prophets of old in the Old Testament, the prophets were the people who called Gods people back to God again. Who pointed out the things that they were doing wrong. So that's the prophet's natural inclination. So you've got this bubbling away and you can see how it would hurt them inside. What does the prophet do with this?
Keith: How do they overcome it?
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: They have to stop working in their own integrity or virtue right, they're saying it must be done this way, that's the way it should be done. They have to look at the integrity of Gods word. In other words, not be selfish about 'I want this way because that's the only right way', they actually have to open themselves up to see it as God sees it. So they have to have the integrity, they're integrity people, but they have to have the integrity of God, not of themselves.
Berni: Anger itself is not a sin is it? I mean, Paul writes in Ephesians 4, verse 26:
Be angry but do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your anger.
So it seems what he's saying is, we're all going to get angry, God gets angry but what's wrong about it is letting it bubble away and bubble away and bubble away.
Keith: Yes and there's a righteous anger but the righteous is according to God not according to your own selfishness.
Berni: Yeah.
Keith: The prophet has a very righteous anger but who's righteousness is it?
Berni: Okay so let's imagine that, that I've got the problem, I'm the prophet, I can see things very black and white and I see the right way and I'm burning with anger, inside at these people who aren't doing it my way, who aren't doing it the right way and after all my ways the only right way.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: Right, so exactly what can I do with a person that's driving me nuts today?
Keith: The only way is to have some empathy with them and to take time to be a teacher. They have to have patience which is the teacher right, the teacher has to have patience and they, even though they're on the other side, they actually have to take time to be patient with that person and to teach them and to show them there's a right way of doing it.
Berni: Okay because it's almost like sharing the right way.
Keith: It is.
Berni: And in that, learning a little bit from the other person as well.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: 'Cause I guess the process of sharing and all of a sudden we discover that there are some other ways of doing things and some better ways of doing things maybe than the ones we thought were the only way.
Keith: They have a closed mind. I've got a son who's a prophet and when he was studying at school, for the High School Certificate, he would put, do 2-hour blocks and maybe half a dozen in a day, 2 hour blocks. They're so disciplined right, they are and they have such high integrity that they actually have to realise there is another life.
Berni: There is another life and the way of stepping outside this is to take the time to work with people and to share with people. Keith, that's really good. Listen, tomorrow we're going to look at the last of these 7 deadly sins which is envy.

It seems in this fast changing world, that laziness couldn't possibly be a problem anymore. But certain people are truly prone to this sin. But they are and that's why it is one of the seven deadly sins.  And it's still deadly today.
We all have patches in life where we need to take our foot off the pedal, just a bit. That's natural, we can't keep running at a million miles an hour, otherwise we'd burn out. Then we're no good to ourselves or anyone else for that matter.
So yes, we all need to take a breather and make sure that we have plenty of rest and recreation. But sometimes, sometimes that kind of slips over the line and too much R and R, well we have a name for that. It's called laziness. Sloth in the old fashioned language. I like the sound of that word, 'sloth'. It's pretty confronting.
And as we're going to see on the program today, some people are more prone to laziness than others. And laziness, well it's like a disease or a cancer. Laziness turns us into couch potatoes. Instead of cooking, we watch TV shows about cooking. Instead of travelling, we watch shows about travelling. Instead of gardening, we watch other people doing gardening.
Instead of having a life, we watch other people having a life and kind of kid ourselves that we have a life too. But here's the paradox; laziness doesn't revive us like rest should. Laziness robs us. It drains us. It drains the life out of us. Whether in yesteryear when we called it sloth or today we call it laziness, doesn't matter what we call it, it robs us of life and it's deadly.
Berni: Well Keith, welcome to the program again today. Tell us about this "sloth" thing, didn't you love that word?
Keith: Yes.
Berni: They used to call it sloth, laziness.
Keith: That's right. Well we're all lazy up to a point. As you said, we have to rest. But laziness, in this term doesn't just mean lying on the couch watching the TV, eating chocolates, right. You can be very busy but you can be lazy.
Berni: Explain that.
Keith: Well, laziness in this term is more talking about putting off what you should do. You could be something else right, I should go and mow the lawn but I won't, I'll actually do something else. You know, there's priorities in life, there's big things that we should do and laziness is more talking about putting those things off 'til tomorrow.
Berni: So you never get around to it?
Keith: Yeah and tomorrow comes and you might put it off until the next day.
Berni: Okay. So why, why are some people more prone to that than others?
Keith: In personality, the one that Romans 12 calls "a teacher" is the one most prone to laziness because their priority is really to relate to people. They're the real relationship people. That's why they're called teachers. It doesn't mean they have to teach or they're the best teachers. But they really relate to spending time with people.
Therefore, if they have a priority of having to go to work or having to wash the car or do something and somebody calls up and says, "Lets go for a drink or a cup of tea", they're more likely to take the cup of tea option rather than what they should do.
Berni: So it's kind of like they're lazy about the mundane things in life that aren't the relationship orientated things which they enjoy.
Keith: Exactly. They're called the "procrastinators" and that's a really good description of them.
Berni: Oh, procrastinators drive me nuts (Both laugh)
Keith: You're the action person, the leader.
Berni: All you procrastinators out there watch out. (Said with humour)
Keith: But the funny part about it, you come from will Berni, the leader but they also come from will. Well ... they're wills first. But their will is to get along with people.
Berni: Yep.
Keith: So they will put off other things and not do what they should do. Now there's, we for instance, have at work, we have a girl who is a teacher personality and she can put things off. Now I told her about her personality the other day and I said, "How do you overcome procrastinating?" She said, "Oh, I make a list every day of what I should do and I put them in priority." Simple thing, we've all heard of and that's what teachers must do. They must have a list and they must do them, one by one, in the right order. Because what they'll try to do is to do the less important things first because they're easier. So it's mere laziness. Let's not take on the hard issues, let's take the soft issues first and we'll work our way up to the hard issues.
Berni: But we never do.
Keith: Never do, keep putting them off.
Berni: I thought you were going to say, when you asked her how she handles procrastination, she answered, "Ah, I'll think about it". (Both laugh)
Keith: Well hopefully she doesn't.
Berni: That's a hard one because I think we all put off the things we don't enjoy doing so much, don't you think? I mean, we all have things we don't much like doing.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: If you have a job that really fits your personality type well, 80% of it might but there's that 20% of stuff that you have to do. I mean someone said to me once when I was in business that I'm administratively recalcitrant, I don't enjoy the nuts and bolts of administration right, I just don't.
Keith: Too slow for you.
Berni: Well, yeah, it just doesn't flick my switch and so I will put those things off because I don't enjoy them so much. Is that what you're saying here with the procrastinator?
Keith: That's right.
Berni: Keith, I seem to have all of these things. Is there something wrong with me? (Both Laugh)
Keith: No, you major in one as we all do, we all major in one.
Berni: Right.
Keith: And so, the other thing with the teacher, what they can do is, they want to be peaceful and easy going because they like relating to everybody. So if there's some conflictive issue here, they will put that off and put it off, they don't want to face conflict because it robs them of their peace and their relationships, so they won't say anything to anyone.
Berni: The laziness thing is a bit cancerous isn't it because; in a sense it doesn't appear like a sin? You're just putting things off but you think about it, you put off your tax return and eventually the government comes knocking on your door.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: You put off paying the bills and eventually they turn the electricity off. You put off the things that you don't want to do and you don't enjoy eventually it all slips away. There's an interesting passage in Proverbs, chapter 24, have a listen to this:
I passed by the field of someone who's lazy, by the vineyard of a stupid person and see it was all overgrown with thorns ...
See, that doesn't happen overnight, does it? The thorns don't come overnight, the come in time.
... and the ground was covered with nettles and its stone walls were broken. Then I saw it and considered it, I looked and I received instruction. A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest and poverty will come upon you like a robber and want like an armed warrior.
Keith: Yes.
Berni: It creeps up on you very slowly, this particular sin, doesn't it? But eventually it bites.
Keith: It does and it bites because, one real reason, is they don't want to make decisions. You make a decision that I'm going to pull the weeds out today and you go and do it. They put off decision making.
Berni: I can't remember which Charlie Brown character it was but one of them said, "Nothing is so important that it can't be put off until tomorrow." (Both laugh)
Keith: That's right. That's a good definition of what laziness is.
Berni: So the solution is, that this woman gave you was, she actually does a list and tries to stick by her list.
Keith: She does and that's actually in 2 Peter 1, the virtue to overcome the laziness is to have that list and to persevere. It says actually patience but its perseverance, long suffering. And these are, that's why they're very good teachers.
They will persevere in showing you what you should do. Great people to show you what to do because they don't get annoyed with you. They'll persevere. And that's in all their life. They have to take on the perseverance and the patience to actually do them until they're finished.
Berni: Now Keith, this stuff is really making me think. I'm looking forward to next week. We're going to continue on the program next week, looking at some of the 7 deadly sins. But it seems like we're going under the covers here.
And I hope, if you've been with us this week, that you've really been thinking, "Ah, that one's me" or "Wow, I never realised that about myself or about my wife or about my husband or about my friend." And you're seeing how we're differently wired and each one of us has a different one of these 7 deadly sins that we have to struggle with.
And yet, each one God gives us a way out. Keith, thanks for joining us, you'll catch up with us again next week?
Keith: Love to.