A Pastor and a Philosopher Walk into a Bar

• Gender, Faith, and Privilege after Transitioning: Paula Stone Williams

  Text us your questions!What happens when a successful religious leader transitions genders and loses everything? Reverend Dr. Paula Stone Williams takes us on her extraordinary journey from privilege to authenticity.Paula once stood at the pinnacle of evangelical success – CEO of a large nonprofit, television host, magazine editor. But beneath this accomplished exterior lived a truth she'd known since childhood: she was transgender. When she finally answered what she describes as a "calling" toward authenticity (instigated by the TV show Lost, belive it or not!), the cost was staggering. Paula lost her jobs, her pension, and virtually all professional connections overnight, earning less than $6,000 annually for four years after transition.This conversation reveals Paula's unique perspective as someone who has experienced life on both sides of the gender divide. Her observations about male privilege are particularly illuminating – "I'll not live long enough to lose my white male entitlement. I brought it with me," she notes, while describing the jarring experience of suddenly being dismissed, patronized, and underestimated in professional settings after transition.Rather than abandoning faith after being rejected by her religious community, Paula describes developing a deeper, more nuanced spirituality. She frames this transformation as moving from a "left-brain heavy faith" focused on doctrine toward one embracing intuition and mystery, leading to a more authentic connection with Jesus's teachings.Paula brings refreshing nuance to often polarized conversations about transgender issues, distinguishing between different manifestations of gender dysphoria while expressing concerns about some current treatment approaches. For church leaders navigating these complex waters, she offers practical advice from her extensive experience leading religious communities.Through her book As a Woman, viral TED Talks, and speaking engagements worldwide, Paula now shares the wisdom gained from her journey, through both profound loss and unexpected discovery. We hope this conversation informs and challenges you as much as it did us.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at [email protected] Cheers!

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• Adding to the Good Pile: Women's Ordination and the Role of the Pastor's Wife with Beth Allison Barr

  Text us your questions!How did the role of "pastor's wife" replace ordination for women in church history? Is the news that there was women's ordination in church history hitting you unexpectedly right now? It's cool, we get it; take a moment and come back when you're ready.Historian and actual pastor's wife Beth Allison Barr returns for a potentially revelatory conversation about her latest book, Becoming the Pastor's Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman's Path to Ministry. Drawing from extensive research, including archival discoveries and reading 150 pastor's wife books/manuals (yes, that's a real genre), Beth uncovers how the glorification of this role coincided with efforts to restrict women's ordination.This interview weaves eye-opening historical findings with deeply personal experiences. Beth shares stories of pastors' wives—herself included—being treated as church property, essentially an extension of her husband and his ministry rather than a full person. These aren't isolated incidents; they are systematic experiences faced by countless pastors' wives who are expected to provide unpaid ministerial labor while supporting their husband's careers.Perhaps most striking is the historical evidence that women served in virtually every ministry role men did for the first thousand years of Christianity—including as deacons, bishops, and preachers. The rise of complementarian theology—spoiler warning if you're not a regular listener of this podcast—is a modern development that deliberately ignores this rich history.While Beth doesn't shy away from the harm these practices have caused, she leaves us with hope borrowed from Doctor Who's beloved Van Gogh episode: while we can't undo past damage, we can "add to the good pile" by recognizing the truth, stopping harmful practices, and building a better future where women's gifts are fully welcomed in ministry. This is a conversation that will challenge your understanding of church history and inspire you to imagine new possibilities for what the church could be.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at [email protected] Cheers!

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• Sexual Ethics, Queer Theology, & Responding to Critics: Matthew Vines (Part 2)

  Text us your questions!Matthew Vines returns to discuss how the revised edition of his book addresses critiques from prominent theologians, the distinction between affirming theology and queer theology, and the possibility of affirming, orthodox Christianity.Matthew unpacks the scholarly consensus that modern sexual orientation concepts simply didn't exist in biblical times—a fact many prominent theologians like NT Wright dismiss without substantial engagement. This historical disconnect creates profound implications for how we interpret biblical passages addressing same-sex relationships.The discussion takes an interesting turn when Matthew articulates a strong critique of queer theology, distinguishing it from his own affirming theological stance. He argues that queer theory's categorical opposition to all normative structures actually harms LGBTQ+ acceptance by creating an antagonistic "us versus them" narrative rather than one of shared values and inclusion.We also explore Christian sexual ethics more broadly, with Matthew making the compelling case that monogamy and covenant faithfulness remain valuable principles with profound theological significance. He explains how Christianity's sexual ethic was actually liberating in the ancient world, especially for women and enslaved people who had previously been treated as property without sexual agency.The conversation concludes with Matthew sharing the mission of The Reformation Project—his organization dedicated to equipping Christians to advocate for LGBTQ+ inclusion while maintaining orthodox Christian beliefs. By modeling how affirmation and biblical commitment can coexist, they're challenging the false narrative that accepting LGBTQ+ people necessarily leads to theological liberalism.Topics covered in this episode include:• How ancient and modern understandings of sexuality are fundamentally different, with sexual orientation being a modern concept• The two main schools of thought in sexuality studies that emerged in the 1970s: social constructionism (Foucault) and essentialism (Boswell)• NT Wright and Preston Sprinkle's claims about ancient sexuality• Matthew's response to criticisms of his interpretation of Matthew 7 regarding "good and bad fruit"• The role of Christian sexual ethics in liberating vulnerable populations by restricting sexual activity to marriage• How queer theology differs from affirming theology in its rejection of all norms as inherently oppressive=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at [email protected] Cheers!

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• Pope Francis' Legacy: A Global Church in Transition

  Text us your questions!Pope Francis, a man who inspired even many Protestants and non-Christians with his refreshingly prophetic voice, has died. The process to select his successor is ongoing as we release this. To help us understand what's happening, as well as its historical significance, we're talking with our friend and returning guest Shaun Blanchard, a Catholic theologian and theological historian. He helps us understand the significance of Francis's papacy and what might come next.As the first Latin American pope, first Jesuit pope, and first non-European pope since the 8th century, Francis broke numerous precedents while embodying what Shaun calls "the first truly post-Vatican II pope." While his predecessors were formed before Vatican II, Francis's entire priestly ministry took place afterward, fundamentally shaping his perspective on church reform.We explore how Francis's pastoral approach differed from Benedict XVI's more theological orientation and how his willingness to "make a mess" by reopening debates on issues like divorce, remarriage, and same-sex blessings represented a sea change in ecclesiastical culture. Francis challenged assumptions across the political and theological spectrum, championing environmental protection and migrant rights while maintaining core Catholic teachings.The conversation turns to the ongoing conclave, where approximately 80% of voting cardinals were appointed by Francis himself. Shaun offers insights into potential candidates including Pietro Parolin, Pierbattista Pizzaballa, and several Asian cardinals, discussing how geopolitical realities might influence the selection process. We also discuss the film "Conclave" and its portrayal of Vatican politics, including how realistic or sensational it was (spoiler warning!).Whether you're Catholic, Protestant, or simply curious about global religious leadership, this conversation illuminates a crucial moment of transition for the world's largest Christian denomination and invites reflection on what spiritual leadership means in our complex global environment.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at [email protected] Cheers!

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• Does the Bible Affirm LGB Relationships? Interview with Matthew Vines (Part 1)

  Text us your questions!Matthew Vines is here to discuss the revised and expanded edition of his influential book God and the Gay Christian, marking eleven years since its initial release. The book sent shockwaves through evangelical Christianity and remains a powerful and compelling case for an affirming reading of the Bible for those who want to hold onto biblical authority (if you're counting, that's exactly one of the hosts of this podcast).Matthew shares the backstory behind the book, including how he took a semester off from Harvard to come out to his parents and how he spent months studying the Bible and reading ex-gay literature with his dad. That process ultimately changed his dad's mind and started the trajectory to this book.The heart of our conversation concerns Matthew's case for reading the Bible in an affirming way. He draws a fascinating parallel with how Christians approached biblical prohibitions against charging interest (usury) for 1,500 years—until John Calvin recognized that while Scripture categorically condemned the practice, its underlying moral logic was about protecting the vulnerable from exploitation. Similarly, Matthew argues, we must understand what same-sex behavior meant in ancient times before we can draw parallels to current practices and understandings.Matthew is articulate and thoughtful and approaches the issue with a great respect for the Bible and for his interlocutors. (The new edition of the book includes new sections responding to some of his critics!)This conversation ran so deep that we had to split it into two episodes! Stay tuned for Part 2.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at [email protected] Cheers!

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