A Pastor and a Philosopher Walk into a Bar

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We sit down with Kristin Kobes Du Mez to talk about her new book Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made. We discuss how what looks like consumer fluff often hides a dense system of theology, discipline, and power. If you grew up around evangelical culture, charismatic spirituality, Christian bookstores, or influencer Christianity--especially if you're a woman--a lot of this will probably feel uncomfortably familiar. 

We follow the thread from holiness teaching and positive thinking into the promise that attitude and obedience can unlock blessing, prosperity, and control over your life. Along the way, we talk about why traditions that seem like opposites can end up reinforcing the same instincts, how publishers and celebrity platforms shape theology, and how doctrines like inerrancy function to centralize authority. Kristin also walks us through the human cost: leaders whose public scripts preach happiness while their private lives reveal suffering, disillusionment, and contradictions that ripple through generations of followers. 

Then we connect it to right now: multi-level marketing as a high-control training ground, “no negativity” culture, wellness conspiracies, and the pipeline that helped "pastel QAnon" spread during COVID. We also ask why mainstream political analysis still struggles to take religion seriously, even when Christian nationalism and religious politics keep showing up in the data. If this one helps you name something you’ve lived through, please share it with a friend and leave a review!
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Randy and Kyle get brutally honest about the moment doubt stops feeling like “questions” and starts feeling like unbelief, including what it’s like to say that out loud when you’re a pastor with a church, a family, and a job that takes for granted that you believe in God.

We dig into the philosophy and the lived spirituality behind the words we toss around too easily: belief, disbelief, doubt, and faith. Kyle unpacks the senses in which belief is (and isn't) an attitude toward a proposition, why certainty is basically impossible, and why faith can’t survive if it’s treated like a 100% confidence score. From “faith that” (propositions like the resurrection) to “faith in” (trust, loyalty, relationship), we explore how acceptance, hope, desire, and resilience can carry a Christian faith journey through seasons when your mind won’t cooperate.

We also talk Bible language like pistis as faithfulness, the hiddenness of God, and why the tradition is full of saints and spiritual giants who knew darkness from the inside. Our goal isn’t to shame atheism or glorify doubt, but to make space for honesty and widen the possibilities for understanding what faith can mean.
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Prayer can fall apart slowly. One day you are sure your words move heaven, and eventually you can't tell if you're talking to anyone at all. We return to the topic of prayer to discuss what happens when it stops feeling natural, when the old charismatic certainty no longer fits, and when trying to pray the way you used to would feel performative instead of real.

We dig into how Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity formed us with beautiful gifts as well as disappointed expectations, especially the pressure to pray with confidence, eloquence, and nonstop positivity. From public prayer “for the room” to private prayer that feels like a foreign language, we name the awkwardness, the grief, and the fear that prayer struggles can signal a bigger faith crisis. We share stories of spiritual experience, including moments that feel like the Holy Spirit’s presence and the unsettling moments that feel like absence.

Then we turn toward rebuilding. We talk about liturgical prayer and communal rhythms, written prayers that give us words when we do not have them, and how practices like contemplative prayer, attention in creation, gratitude, and the Eucharist can become genuine ways of connecting with God without pretending we have it all figured out. We also wrestle with a hard question for progressive Christianity and post-evangelical life: if you change enough ingredients, is it still prayer, or did it become something else?

If you feel stuck, cynical, hopeful, or all of the above about prayer, you are not alone. We'd love to hear from you.
Catch our first conversation about prayer here.
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The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.

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Text us your questions!
We wanted something different from our usual fare, so we invited musician David Gungor to help us see spirituality through an artist’s eyes: beauty, story, woundedness, and play. What starts as a talk about music becomes an exploration of navigating Christian deconstruction, church hurt, and the fear that life’s best days might already be gone.

David shares his pastor’s kid upbringing, the family fallout that reshaped his world, and how his songwriting moved from evangelical worship culture toward liturgical art, peacemaking, and honest ambiguity. We dig into his “threefold path” of spiritual growth, why mythos and narrative matter for meaning, and what separates art from propaganda. If you’ve ever wondered why “Christian music” can feel instantly recognizable in the worst way, this part will stick with you: great spiritual art creates space for interpretation, awe, and participation.

Things get even more real when David talks about pandemic-era health scares, anxiety attacks, intrusive thoughts, therapy, and the practice of “learning to just be.” We end somewhere unexpected: sports as structured play, where competition can become communal healing and even a kind of liturgy.
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The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.

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Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com
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Text us your questions!
Democrats can pass huge bills and still lose the argument with the people those bills are meant to help. That’s the tension we dig into with Chuck Rocha, a longtime Democratic strategist, Bernie Sanders alum, and proud “Mexican redneck” from East Texas who learned politics through factory work and union life. He comes in hot on one theme: voters don’t just weigh policies, they decide whether they trust you, whether they feel seen, and whether your message fits their world.

We talk insider baseball on the Bernie versus Hillary primary, what changed between 2016 and 2020, and why party power almost never gives up the wheel willingly. Then we zoom out to the bigger mess: how social media algorithms profit from outrage, how safe districts make primaries the real election, and why gerrymandering and fundraising incentives push politicians toward extremes. Chuck also challenges our assumptions about “populism,” arguing that most Americans are a mix of right and left instincts, and they mostly want government to stop making life harder while still protecting basic dignity and fairness.

The practical heart of the conversation is his prescription for a new Democratic majority: root the story in work and family, speak like a real person, show cultural competency, and earn trust before you ask for votes. We also get into faith language, regional candidates, and why Chuck thinks a figure like James Talarico could shock the country in Texas.
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Want to support us?

The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.

If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal.

Other important info:
Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify
Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast
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Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com
Cheers!