Extraordinary Creatives

Today, I am joined by Marcel Baettig, artist, cultural leader, and founder and CEO of Bow Arts, one of London’s most influential arts and education charities. Over three decades, Marcel has quietly built a values-led social enterprise that provides affordable studios and housing for artists, reaches tens of thousands of young people, and continually reinvests in local communities.

This conversation isn’t just about scale or success. It´s about precarity, why artists need infrastructure as much as inspiration, and how Marcel’s own experience of working as an artist shaped Bow Arts. We explore leadership without ego, the long game of cultural change, and why we need to stop treating artists as an afterthought in regeneration.

This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt the system is stacked against them - and wondered what it looks like to build a different one.

KEY TAKEAWAYS


We need to stop accepting scarcity as inevitable, to question who systems are really designed for - building a better art world is not a theoretical exercise. It’s a daily practice.


Sustainable creative lives are built through shared responsibility and leaders who remember what it feels like to be at the kitchen table wondering how the rent will get paid and still choosing to make the work.


If we want artists to survive, we must design practical, long-term infrastructure - affordable space, stable income pathways, and owned assets, not just offer prestige moments or short-term opportunities.

BEST MOMENTS

“Artists thrive when they are trusted, resourced, and rooted in their communities.”

“Artists don’t just need opportunities. They need conditions. Time. Space. Stability and a sense their contribution to society is not decorative, but essential.”  

THE GUEST

Marcel Baettig is the Founder and CEO of Bow Arts, a pioneering London charity providing affordable, sustainable spaces for artists to live and work while contributing to their local communities. Originally trained as an artist, he founded Bow Arts in 1994, and it now supports over 1,100 artists across London, runs a major learning programme that reaches tens of thousands of young people, and reinvests significant funds into local cultural life. He is also a founding director of the National Federation of Artist Studio Providers and has advised bodies including the Mayor of London, Arts Council England, and DCMS on creative workspace and cultural regeneration. 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/1639152

https://www.facebook.com/bowarts/?locale=en_GB

https://bowarts.org/

HOST BIO

With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals.

**

Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today!

https://cerihand.com/membership/

**

Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course

Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today.

https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/

**

Book a Discovery Call Today

To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at [email protected]

Welcome to episode 179 of the Extraordinary Creatives podcast - Should You Quit Your Job to Be an Artist? 

There’s a moment every artist fantasises about. The email sent. The notice handed in. The clean break. Finally, time, headspace, freedom.

But more time doesn’t automatically mean better work. Sometimes it means more fear.

So, Should you give up your full-time job to pursue your art?

Not in theory. Not in Instagram-caption wisdom. But in real life, with real nervous systems, real rent, real doubt, and real ambition. This episode was sparked by a conversation inside her Artist Mastermind Circle. 

An artist who’d built a successful business alongside his practice. Financially stable. Thoughtful. Clear-eyed. And still asking himself the hardest question of all. Is now the moment to make a clean break? 

KEY TAKEAWAYS


Quitting your job won’t magically fix your practice. It might give you space.It might also give you anxiety, comparison, and a nervous system in overdrive. Before you burn the bridge, build the baton. Steady the work. Strengthen the support. Then decide.


Anxiety has a way of shrinking creativity. It narrows risk. It softens ambition. It pushes you towards safer work, not braver work. That's not a moral failure, that's biology.


Before you quit, make sure your work is strong, you’re truly committed to sharing it and ready for the time and energy doing that takes. Ensure your inner world is steady, you’re supported, and you’ve tested that your art can actually sustain you. Don’t jump; build the bridge.

BEST MOMENTS

“More time doesn't automatically mean better work. Sometimes it means more fear.”

“A sustainable creative career isn't built on bravery alone. It's built on emotional regulation. Your thoughts affect your feelings. Your feelings affect your actions. Your actions create your results.”

“Can you manage your inner weather when doubt hits? Do you have tools to regulate yourself, or do you collapse into self, judgement and comparison and shrink?”

“The lone, brave warrior fantasy is seductive. And dangerous. It's bullsh**t. No artist gets there alone.”

PODCAST HOST BIO

With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals.

****

Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today!

https://cerihand.com/membership/

****

Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course

Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today.

https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/

****

Book a Discovery Call Today

To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at [email protected]

****

Discover Your Extraordinary Creativity

Visit www.cerihand.com to learn how we can help you become an extraordinary creative.

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Today’s episode is with the extraordinary Eva Sajovic, an artist whose art works provoke questions about labour, value, and exchange. We talk about how growing up with her grandma in the countryside in Slovenia shapes not just what she makes, but how she makes it and how that early encounter with political rupture still informs her resistance to spectacle, speed, and extractive systems. 

We unpack the emotional, ethical, and practical labour beneath participatory work, and talk candidly about teaching, money, sustainability, and authorship. Eva shares what shifted during her British School at Rome fellowship, and what it takes to build a practice that can hold complexity without collapsing. She also reflects on joining the Artist Mastermind Circle, and why vulnerability is essential to getting the work into the world.

KEY TAKEAWAYS


Eva´s childhood experiences of scarcity and playing in freedom taught her to explore and be resourceful and that “makeshift” muscle is still at the core of her work. 


When you move out of your body and into your head to “solve” the work, it tends to die. Instead let materials, repetition, instinct and sensation lead. Often, the images and ideas are already in your body, waiting for the right process to draw them out.


If you work with people, factor in the emotional and ethical labour as part of the project, not an add-on. Build in support, debrief time, and clear roles. 

BEST MOMENTS

“Art is really about deep care and attention. About what you offer and what you are willing to hold.”

“The images are in my body, not somewhere else. They are inside and they come out.”

EPISODE RESOURCES

https://www.evasajovic.co.uk

https://www.instagram.com/eva_sajovic

https://www.arts.ac.uk/whats-on/eva-sajovic-rise-and-fall-of-a-temple

PODCAST HOST BIO

With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals.

****

The Artist Mastermind Circle: Ready to stop second-guessing and start building next level momentum in your art career? Applications are now open for the Artist Mastermind Circle—a six-month coaching programme for 25 mid-career artists serious about growing their income, network, opportunities, and confidence.

Register by 6pm Monday 2nd February: Artist Mastermind Circle Application and take the next bold step. (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf6hXd1YpO5MvUq2oRqW3qyqte7BBn5CSkgHG76dXzBMbT66Q/viewform)

****

Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today!

https://cerihand.com/membership/

****

Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course

Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today.

https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/

****

Book a Discovery Call Today

To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at [email protected]

****

Discover Your Extraordinary Creativity

Visit www.cerihand.com to learn how we can help you become an extraordinary creative.

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Today we’re getting into co-representation, the realities of working with more than one gallery, and how to navigate it without damaging the relationships you’ve worked so hard to build.

You’ve built a body of work that has momentum. You’ve shown commitment to your gallery. You’ve done the shows, the fairs, the dinners, the follow-ups. And now you feel ready to build internationally. Not as a vanity move. Not because you’re bored. But because your work feels ready to travel, and because you understand that long-term sustainability often requires more than one market. 

So, you raise the question with your gallery. And instead of traction, you get drag. The response isn’t hostile. It’s not a no. It’s just… slow.

This is where many artists start to doubt themselves. Or worse, start making moves quietly, without support, because waiting feels unbearable.

This episode is for that moment.

KEY TAKEAWAYS


Wanting to expand internationally does not make you impatient or ungrateful, but moving without strategy, clarity or the consent and co-operation of your existing gallery can undo years of careful relationship building.


Co-signing you into another territory carries real reputational risk for your gallery and for you and introduces complexity.


Instead of quietly scrambling behind your gallery’s back, ask for a focused meeting, lay out why this territory and why now, and work with them to define clear criteria, a realistic timeline and a small pilot so co-representation becomes a shared, strategic project rather than a secret escape plan. Use the scripts Ceri shares to help you.

BEST MOMENTS

“Joint representation only works when there is deep trust, transparency and aligned strategy.”

“Your primary gallery should lead on sales strategy and pricing coherence… This coherence is what builds confidence and protects your long-term value.

“If the gallery is not acting, you need clarity, not patience without end. So, step one, ask for a decision, not a discussion.”

HOST BIO

With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals.

**

The Artist Mastermind Circle: Ready to stop second-guessing and start building next level momentum in your art career? Applications are now open for the Artist Mastermind Circle—a six-month coaching programme for 25 mid-career artists serious about growing their income, network, opportunities and confidence.

Register by 6pm Monday 2nd February: Artist Mastermind Circle Application and take the next bold step https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf6hXd1YpO5MvUq2oRqW3qyqte7BBn5CSkgHG76dXzBMbT66Q/viewform

**

Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today!

https://cerihand.com/membership/

**

Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course

Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today.

https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/

**

Book a Discovery Call Today

To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at [email protected]

This week’s podcast guest is the extraordinary David Horvitz, an artist whose work has been exhibited at and collected by major institutions around the world.

Witty, poetic, and nomadic, David’s work traverses photography, artist books, performance, mail art, sound, the internet, food, and natural environments, engaging systems of language, time, and networks.

We talk about why artists should resist being burdened by identity or authorship, what it means to let work travel without you, why erasure can be as generative as making, and how attention, patience and trust shape a long creative life.

This is an invitation to rethink how art moves, how ideas land, and why not everything needs to be planned and held tightly to matter. It’s juicy, so I hope you enjoy it!

KEY TAKEAWAYS


You don’t need a tidy label or style. Let your work move across mediums. Consistency of spirit matters more than a fixed “brand.” Protect your ability to change direction, even if it risks sales.


Stop over managing meaning. Allow your work to circulate, mutate, and find its own audiences in its own time. Trust that small gestures, made with intention, can ripple far beyond what we can see.


David reminds us that nerves and doubt aren’t problems to fix, but raw material: use that nervous energy, bounce half-formed ideas off people, and let that call-and-response sharpen what the work really wants to be.

BEST MOMENTS

“You don't have to be burdened by the image you've created of yourself. You could start over.”

“Artists need to be inconsistently consistent, if you like, in order to have freedom to kind of roam and be like a free-range chicken.”

“Once the work leaves your hands, you don’t get to control how it’s held.”

EPISODE RESOURCES

http://www.davidhorvitz.com/

https://www.instagram.com/davidhorvitz/?hl=en

PODCAST HOST BIO

With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals.

****

The Artist Mastermind Circle: Ready to stop second-guessing and start building next level momentum in your art career? Applications are now open for the Artist Mastermind Circle—a six-month coaching programme for 25 mid-career artists serious about growing their income, network, opportunities and confidence.

Register by 6pm Monday 2nd February: Artist Mastermind Circle Application and take the next bold step. (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf6hXd1YpO5MvUq2oRqW3qyqte7BBn5CSkgHG76dXzBMbT66Q/viewform)

****

Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today!

https://cerihand.com/membership/

****

Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course

Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today.

https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/

****

Book a Discovery Call Today

To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at [email protected]

****

Discover Your Extraordinary Creativity

Visit www.cerihand.com to learn how we can help you become an extraordinary creative.

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/