The Urban Farm Podcast with Greg Peterson

with Brad Lancaster & Andrew Millison
In this Episode - What begins as a simple effort to redirect stormwater becomes a powerful story of ecological restoration, community organizing, and policy change. Brad Lancaster and Andrew Millison discuss how a grassroots, initially "pre-legal" water harvesting project transformed neighborhoods in Tucson, inspired new city policies, and is now influencing communities across the Southwest. They explore how small interventions can create lasting cultural shifts, why regenerative change requires generations of stewardship, and how anyone can become a catalyst for positive change in their own community.
Our Guests: Brad is the author of the books Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond, the creator of HarvestingRainwater.com, and co-founder of Neighborhood Foresters.org. These converge through his neighborhood’s rain-irrigated native food forestry efforts in downtown Tucson, AZ. Their work has planted over 1,800 native food-bearing trees and thousands of multi-use understory plants solely watered by the 1.25 million gallons of stormwater they planted in streetside- and in-street rain gardens.
Andrew Millison is an educator and founder of Oregon State University’s Permaculture Design program. He has travelled the Earth documenting impactful stories of land regeneration on his popular YouTube channel, which boasts over 100 million video views. In his 30-year career in Permaculture, he has designed and consulted on numerous projects throughout the world.
Key Topics
Street-side water harvesting
Brad Lancaster
Andrew Millison
Tucson neighborhood restoration
Community-led ecological design
Rainwater harvesting
Urban heat island mitigation
Native food forests
Water policy reform
Regenerative community development
Green infrastructure
Earth Repair Fund
Neighborhood stewardship
Permaculture design

Key Questions Answered
How did an illegal curb cut become a model for public policy?
A neighborhood experiment redirecting street runoff into planted basins demonstrated measurable environmental and community benefits. Those results convinced city officials to legalize and eventually promote the practice, creating a model now spreading to other cities.
What problems does street-side water harvesting solve?
It reduces flooding, cools neighborhoods, slows traffic, supports native ecosystems, grows food, increases biodiversity, improves walkability, and strengthens neighborhood relationships—all using rainwater that previously became waste.
Why is community participation more important than infrastructure?
Infrastructure creates opportunity, but long-term success depends on residents becoming active stewards. Cultural change happens when people continually care for and improve the systems they've created together.
How has Tucson changed over the past 30 years?
What was once a hot, barren streetscape has become a shaded urban forest filled with native plants, birds, pedestrians, cyclists, and community gathering spaces.
Why focus on native plants?
Native species require less irrigation, survive harsh conditions, support local wildlife, and create resilient landscapes that continue thriving even when maintenance decreases.
What does "pre-legal" mean?
Rather than breaking rules for the sake of rebellion, Brad describes testing practical solutions before regulations existed. Successful demonstrations then became the basis for changing policy.
How do you convince government agencies to support innovation?
By solving their existing problems—flooding, crime, heat, traffic, maintenance costs—and collaborating with receptive allies inside government rather than making demands.
When does a project become a cultural movement?
When it measurably improves people's daily lives, inspires widespread participation, changes public policy, and motivates others to adapt the ideas within their own communities.
Why did Andrew Millison choose to document this story?
Because it represents a proven, decades-long example of regenerative change that others can replicate, offering practical hope instead of theoretical solutions.
What mindset shift do the speakers hope listeners experience?
To begin seeing neighborhoods as living watersheds full of opportunities for regeneration, rather than fixed infrastructure that cannot be improved.
Episode Highlights
A neighborhood experiment in harvesting street runoff evolved into city-approved infrastructure and inspired policy changes beyond Tucson.
Water harvesting became a catalyst for cooling neighborhoods, restoring wildlife habitat, calming traffic, and building stronger communities.
Native food forests transformed once-barren public rights-of-way into productive community commons.
Brad Lancaster explains how changing policy requires collaboration, persistence, and demonstrating successful models.
Andrew Millison shares why documenting proven regenerative projects creates hope and motivates action.
The discussion explores how infrastructure can become a tool for cultural transformation.
Both guests emphasize that regenerative work is lifelong, requiring continual community participation rather than one-time projects.
Listeners are encouraged to identify their own community's "acupuncture point"—the small intervention capable of creating widespread positive change.

Resources
Watch the documentary
Fundraising documentary on Brad Lancaster's Tucson water harvesting project

Learn Rainwater Harvesting
HarvestingRainwater.com

Support the Project
Earth Repair Fund crowdfunding campaign

Explore Native Urban Forestry
NeighborhoodForesters.org

Learn Permaculture
Oregon State University Permaculture Program

Books
Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond by Brad Lancaster

YouTube
Andrew Millison
Brad Lancaster

Podcast Show Notes Visit www.urbanfarm.org/TucsonWaterHarvesting for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback. Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this special commentary episode, Farmer Greg reflects on his conversation with Shelby Maldonado and Leeza Chen of the Appalachian Grower Seed Collective. He explores how the Southeast lost much of its regional seed-growing infrastructure, why COVID-19 exposed the fragility of modern seed supply chains, and what it takes to rebuild resilient, locally adapted seed systems. Greg highlights the importance of bioregional seed stewardship, community collaboration, and becoming a "seed ancestor" by saving and sharing seeds. The episode is both a call to action and a vision for strengthening local food security through regional seed sovereignty.
Key Topics
Appalachian Grower Seed Collective
Seed sovereignty and regional resilience
COVID-19 seed shortages
Local seed production infrastructure
Seed saving traditions
Bioregional seed adaptation
Southern heirloom varieties
Community seed cooperatives
Climate resilience in agriculture
Shared seed processing equipment
Utopian Seed Project
Local food security
Seed stewardship
Becoming a seed ancestor

Key Questions Answered
Why did the Southeast largely stop producing its own seeds?
Over time, seed production became concentrated in other regions and large commercial seed companies. Farmers shifted from saving seeds to purchasing them annually, causing local seed knowledge and infrastructure to fade.
What did the COVID-19 pandemic reveal about the seed supply chain?
When seed inventories sold out during the pandemic, many growers realized they were dependent on distant suppliers and vulnerable to disruptions beyond their control.
Why are locally adapted seeds so valuable?
Seeds selected over multiple seasons in the same region naturally adapt to local soils, climate, pests, and weather patterns, often outperforming varieties developed elsewhere.
What is bioregional seed adaptation?
Bioregional adaptation is the ongoing process of selecting and saving seeds that thrive under local growing conditions, creating increasingly resilient crops over successive generations.
How did the Appalachian Grower Seed Collective get started?
The collective began with ten farmers, shared seed-cleaning equipment housed in a mobile trailer, grant funding, and a year dedicated to building trust before launching seed production.
Why does the collective only steward seeds grown locally for at least three years?
Three growing seasons provide enough time for varieties to begin adapting to regional conditions, strengthening their long-term resilience and performance.
How can individual gardeners begin preserving seed diversity?
Anyone can save seeds from plants they love, share them with neighbors, and begin creating a regional seed legacy—even without large-scale infrastructure.
Why should every region develop a seed collective?
Regional seed collectives create local agricultural resilience, preserve genetic diversity, strengthen community relationships, and provide insurance when commercial supply chains fail.
Episode Highlights
COVID-19 exposed how dependent many local farmers are on distant seed suppliers.
Modern local food systems are only as resilient as their seed sources.
Seed saving knowledge disappeared gradually as commercial seed purchasing became the norm.
Trust-building among growers proved just as important as equipment or funding.
Every growing season becomes a selection event that strengthens locally adapted genetics.
Gardeners can become the first "seed ancestor" in a new regional seed lineage.
Seed collectives create practical infrastructure that complements—not replaces—the commercial seed industry.
Building resilient food systems begins with communities stewarding their own seeds.

Calls to Action & Resources
Listen to Episode 993 - https://urbanfarm.org/seedcollective
Learn about the Appalachian Grower Seed Collective - https://utopianseed.org/store
Connect with the Urban Farm Podcast - https://urbanfarm.org
Email Farmer Greg - podcast@urbanfarm.org
Interested in starting a seed collective?
Reach out to the Appalachian Grower Seed Collective to learn from their experience and begin building seed resilience in your own region. leeza@utopianseed.org
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/993 for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

The Appalachian Growers Seed Collective w/ Shelby Mandonado and Leeza Chen
In this Episode Shelby Mandonado and Leeza Chen share the story behind the Appalachian Growers Seed Collective, a collaborative network of farmers producing and stewarding locally adapted seeds for the Southern Appalachian region. They discuss why regional seed production matters, how climate change makes local adaptation increasingly important, and how farmers can reclaim seed sovereignty by saving and sharing seeds. The conversation explores the practical realities of launching a seed collective, preserving heirloom varieties, and strengthening local food systems through collaboration rather than competition. It is an inspiring discussion about resilience, biodiversity, and the long-term power of community-grown seeds.
Our Guests: Shelby is a farmer, organizer, and mother with a passion for collaborative models of community building based around our shared love of the land. And
Leeza is a seed farmer near Asheville, North Carolina. She is inspired by the way seeds are both deeply personal and powerfully political, often leaning on them as a lens to understand our connection to the land, culture, and sovereignty.
Key Topics
Appalachian Growers Seed Collective
Shelby Mandonado
Leeza Chen
Southern Appalachian seed stewardship
Bioregional seed adaptation
Seed sovereignty
Local food systems
Community-based seed production
Seed farming
Climate resilience in agriculture
Utopian Seed Project
Heirloom and heritage crop preservation
Farmer collaboration and shared equipment
Seed saving as cultural preservation

Key Questions Answered
What is the Appalachian Growers Seed Collective?
A regional network of approximately ten farmers who collaboratively grow, steward, package, and sell locally adapted seed varieties while sharing equipment, knowledge, and resources.
Why are locally adapted seeds so important?
Seeds grown and selected in a specific region become better adapted to local climate, weather patterns, soils, pests, and diseases, improving reliability for future growers.
What is a seed farmer?
A seed farmer allows crops to complete their full life cycle, harvesting mature seed instead of edible produce, then cleaning, testing, and packaging seed for future planting.
Why has on-farm seed saving declined?
Commercial seed industry consolidation has led many growers to purchase seed annually rather than saving their own, reducing regional adaptation and local seed resilience.
How did the COVID-19 pandemic influence the collective?
Seed shortages during the pandemic exposed vulnerabilities in the food system and highlighted the need for local seed production and regional seed independence.
How was the collective started?
The founders secured a grant, purchased shared seed-processing equipment, built a mobile processing trailer, and spent significant time developing trust, shared values, and collaborative systems before expanding production.
What makes Southern Appalachian seed production unique?
The region's humid climate presents challenges rarely addressed by traditional seed-saving literature, requiring local experimentation and farmer-to-farmer learning.
How can others start a regional seed collective?
Begin with trusted growers, define shared values and goals, develop a complementary seed collection, share resources, and grow at the "speed of trust."
How does the Utopian Seed Project support the collective?
The nonprofit evaluates diverse crop varieties through research and field trials, then shares promising selections with the collective for regional seed production and distribution.
What role does seed stewardship play in climate resilience?
Saving seed from plants that survive local stresses gradually builds populations better adapted to changing environmental conditions.
Can someone without a farming heritage become a seed steward?
Absolutely. Every seed saver can become the first generation of a new seed lineage by preserving, sharing, and passing seeds to future growers.
Episode Highlights
The collective includes about ten farmers working together to grow, process, and market locally adapted seeds.
Seeds are selected only after proving themselves through multiple growing seasons in Southern Appalachian conditions.
COVID-19 seed shortages revealed how dependent local food systems are on distant commercial seed suppliers.
Shared equipment, including a mobile seed-processing trailer, allows small farmers to access professional seed-cleaning tools.
Trust-building, shared meals, and collaborative decision-making are considered just as important as technical farming skills.
Climate change makes regional seed adaptation increasingly valuable for future food security.
Every heirloom seed carries generations of cultural history, family traditions, and local knowledge.
Anyone can become the first ancestor in a new seed-saving tradition by simply beginning to save and share seed.

Resources
Appalachian Growers Seed Collective Store — https://utopianseed.org/store
Utopian Seed Project — https://utopianseed.org
Real Seeds ZigZag Winnower Plans — https://www.realseeds.co.uk
Connect with Leeza Chen — leeza@utopianseed.org
Recommended Book - The Seed Garden by Jared Zystro
Follow Utopian Seed Project — Instagram, Facebook, and the Utopian Seed Project mailing list for breeding trials, research, and seed releases.
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/SeedCollective for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode we have Landen Schaelling, founder of Sacred Soil Solutions, sharing how healthy soil biology transforms plant health from the ground up. Drawing on years of homesteading, regenerative soil research, and microscopy, he explains why bacteria, fungi, and other microbes are the true engine behind thriving gardens and farms. The conversation explores the science of rhizophagy, microbial ferments, compost quality, and practical strategies that gardeners and farmers can immediately implement to build healthier, more resilient soil. Landen also discusses how understanding living soil can reduce fertilizer inputs, improve plant immunity, and restore natural ecological balance.
Our Guest: Landen Schaelling is the founder of Sacred Soil Solutions. He is focused on bringing optimal and approachable microbial inputs to gardeners and homesteaders, while also teaching farmers in the American West how to implement soil-building solutions at scale. Landen has been homesteading through a permaculture lens in Northern Arizona for over a decade. In the last couple of years, he has devoted his focus to restoring holistic soil microbiology and using practical microscope work to verify and guide that process.
Key Topics
Living soil biology
Soil microbiome
Rhizophagy (plant root feeding)
Compost quality and fungal dominance
Soil microscopy
Symbiotic Antioxidative Microbes (SAM)
Microbial ferments
Compost extracts vs. compost teas
Soil pH and alkalinity
Water retention in arid climates
Plant Health Pyramid
Complete protein synthesis in plants
Regenerative agriculture
Homesteading and permaculture

Key Questions Answered
What makes soil truly healthy?
Healthy soil contains a balance of minerals, water, air space, organic matter, and abundant biological life. Understanding each site's history helps determine the best path toward regeneration.
Why are microbes so important?
Microbes drive nutrient cycling, improve plant nutrition, build soil structure, support water retention, and create resilient ecosystems that naturally suppress disease and pests.
What is rhizophagy?
Rhizophagy is the process by which plant roots actively absorb bacteria and yeast through root tips, consume them, and gain proteins, micronutrients, and growth-promoting compounds directly from living microbes.
Why does compost sometimes perform better than fertilizer?
High-quality compost delivers living biology rather than simply nutrients. Plants respond rapidly when beneficial microbes become available through compost or microbial ferments.
What's the difference between compost tea and microbial ferments?
Compost tea extracts microbes already living in compost, while microbial ferments grow stable populations of beneficial microbes that can be applied as foliar sprays or soil drenches.
Why is soil history important?
Past management practices—including flood irrigation, synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, and previous crops—continue to influence soil biology, fertility, and plant performance years later.
How can gardeners encourage healthier soil biology?
Build mature compost, reduce unnecessary disturbance, increase carbon-rich materials, apply microbial ferments, mulch consistently, and maintain proper moisture.
Can healthier soil reduce pests and diseases?
Healthy plants with complete protein synthesis become naturally less attractive to many insect pests while beneficial microbes improve plant immune function against common diseases.
How does soil microscopy help?
Microscopy allows growers to directly observe microbial populations, assess compost quality, diagnose biological deficiencies, and monitor progress during soil restoration.
What common mistake delayed Landen's success?
Using feedlot cattle manure overloaded his soil with nitrates, producing vigorous foliage but poor fruit production and severe pest pressure, ultimately leading him to study soil biology more deeply.
Episode Highlights
Landen left a traditional academic path after discovering permaculture and dedicated his life to regenerative homesteading.
Healthy soil depends as much on living biology as it does on minerals and organic matter.
Rhizophagy has changed how scientists understand plant nutrition, showing plants directly consume microbes.
Compost quality depends more on microbial diversity than simply creating dark, finished organic matter.
Acidic microbial ferments can help offset alkaline soils common throughout the American Southwest.
Living microbes improve plant nutrition, reduce pest pressure, and strengthen natural disease resistance.
Soil microscopy allows growers to verify biological activity instead of relying solely on assumptions.
Taking action before knowing everything is often the fastest path to learning and improving soil health.

Resources
Book Recommendation
Regenerative Soil by Matt Powers
Learn More
Sacred Soil Solutions School (Skool community)
Sacred Soil Solutions educational resources on microbial ferments

Follow
Facebook: Landen Schaelling
Instagram: Sacred Soil Solutions

Email
landen.schaelling@protonmail.com
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/SacredSoil for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode Aly Nickling-Riddle shares her journey from personal tragedy and corporate life to building a homestead in Northern Ontario. After leaving everything behind to travel in a vintage RV, she unexpectedly met her future husband, and together they pursued a simpler, more self-sufficient lifestyle. Aly discusses the realities of homesteading, the emotional and financial challenges many aspiring homesteaders underestimate, and the inspiration behind her book Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You? This conversation offers a practical roadmap for anyone considering a move toward greater self-reliance.
Our Guest: Aly is a Canadian author, keynote speaker, McGill lecturer, and freelance journalist who brings a refreshingly honest perspective to modern homesteading and self-sufficient living. With a background in media, business, and more than a decade of professional writing experience, she helps people think carefully before making major lifestyle changes. Her book, Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You?, encourages aspiring homesteaders to look beyond social media ideals and understand the real physical, financial, and emotional demands of rural life. Through workshops, lectures, and presentations, she focuses on practical planning, resilience, sustainability, and building realistic paths toward long-term self-reliance.
Key Topics
Aly Riddle
Riddle Ridge Homestead
Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You?
Self-sufficiency and resilience
Emotional challenges of homesteading
Financial planning before buying land
Community and neighbor relationships
Rural versus urban lifestyles
Infrastructure costs and land development
Preparedness and disaster resilience
Building realistic homestead plans
Personal consultations for aspiring homesteaders
Hurricane Helene recovery lessons
The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery

Key Questions Answered
Why did Aly choose the homesteading lifestyle?
After experiencing multiple personal tragedies and a divorce, Aly decided to rebuild her life from scratch. She left the corporate world, traveled in an RV, and eventually found a path toward a simpler, more intentional lifestyle.
What inspired the book Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You?
Aly and her husband noticed many people leaving homesteading after only a couple of years because they entered the lifestyle with unrealistic expectations. The book was created to help people understand what they are truly signing up for before they buy land.
What makes this book different from other homesteading books?
Most homesteading books focus on skills and projects after purchasing land. Aly's book focuses on the planning, financial, emotional, and practical considerations that should happen years before purchasing property.
What is the biggest misconception about homesteading?
Many people believe homesteading is a slower, stress-free lifestyle. In reality, it replaces urban stresses with different challenges that require resilience, adaptability, and commitment.
How does Aly define homesteading?
Homesteading is any effort to become more self-sufficient and less dependent on systems that can fail. It can happen in rural settings, suburban backyards, or even urban apartments.
What hidden costs surprise new homesteaders?
Infrastructure expenses such as wells, septic systems, driveways, utilities, and ongoing maintenance are often underestimated. Many people also overestimate how quickly a homestead can generate income.
Why is community important for homesteaders?
Strong neighbor relationships provide support, skill sharing, trade opportunities, and resilience during emergencies. Community often determines long-term success more than individual effort.
What lesson did Aly learn from a tornado striking her property?
The experience reinforced that no amount of planning eliminates uncertainty. Gratitude, adaptability, and resilience become essential when nature disrupts carefully crafted plans.
What drives Aly's work today?
She is passionate about helping people move from dreaming about self-sufficiency to creating practical, realistic plans that can succeed over the long term.
Episode Highlights
Aly rebuilt her life after personal tragedy by leaving corporate life and traveling full-time in a vintage RV.
She met her future husband on the very first day of a work-camping opportunity in Florida.
Their homesteading journey required far more planning and time than they originally expected.
Emotional resilience is often more important than practical skills for long-term success.
Homesteading can be practiced anywhere, not just on large rural properties.
New homesteaders frequently underestimate infrastructure and development costs.
Community relationships can be as valuable as land, tools, and equipment.
A tornado that dropped over 100 trees on Aly's property became a lesson in gratitude and resilience.

Calls to Action & Resources
Book — Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You? (Available through Amazon and local bookstores)
Instagram — Riddle Ridge Homestead
Facebook — Riddle Ridge Homestead
Consulting Services — Personal planning consultations for new and aspiring homesteaders available through the website.
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/RiddleRidge for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.