The Urban Farm Podcast with Greg Peterson

In this Episode: Abey Rae Scaglione has cultivated a deep understanding of the need for animals in our food system, layered upon her decades-long fascination with nutrition and self-sufficiency. After earning her degree in psychology, Abey worked as Pilates instructor in Los Angeles, eventually owning her own studio. Long interested in where our food comes from, it was in Northern California that she fell in love with growing vegetables and raising chickens. In 2021, Abey moved with her husband and two sons to Ruckle Heritage Farm on Salt Spring Island in British Columbia, Canada, where they raise sheep, cattle, turkeys and chickens. As a former vegetarian turned rancher, she has an incredibly intimate relationship with the complex realities of raising animals for food and the deep conviction that more can be done for animal welfare by supporting good farming practices, than by rejecting all animal agriculture.
Our Guest: Abey Rae Scaglione has cultivated a deep understanding of the need for animals in our food system, layered upon her decades-long fascination with nutrition and self-sufficiency. After earning her degree in psychology, Abey worked as Pilates instructor in Los Angeles, eventually owning her own studio. Long interested in where our food comes from, it was in Northern California that she fell in love with growing vegetables and raising chickens. In 2021, Abey moved with her husband and two sons to Ruckle Heritage Farm on Salt Spring Island in British Columbia, Canada, where they raise sheep, cattle, turkeys and chickens. As a former vegetarian turned rancher, she has an incredibly intimate relationship with the complex realities of raising animals for food and the deep conviction that more can be done for animal welfare by supporting good farming practices, than by rejecting all animal agriculture.
Key Topics
Abey Rae Scaglione
Ruckle Heritage Farm
Regenerative agriculture
Local food systems
Animal welfare in agriculture
From vegetarianism to ranching
Self-sufficiency and homesteading
Raising sheep, cattle, turkeys, and chickens
Nutrition and food sourcing
Small-scale farming realities
Salt Spring Island farming culture
Food resilience and sustainability
Ethical meat production
Family farming

Key Questions Answered
Why did Abey Rae Scaglione transition from vegetarianism to ranching?
Abey’s evolving understanding of nutrition, ecology, and food systems led her to recognize the important role animals play in regenerative agriculture. Her firsthand experiences growing food and raising animals deepened her perspective on ethical animal stewardship and sustainable farming.
How did her background in psychology and wellness shape her approach to farming?
Her education in psychology and years as a Pilates instructor gave her insight into health, behavior, and holistic wellness. That foundation naturally expanded into curiosity about food quality, nutrition, and self-reliance.
What changed after moving to Salt Spring Island?
Relocating to British Columbia in 2021 allowed Abey and her family to fully immerse themselves in farming life at Ruckle Heritage Farm, where they now raise multiple livestock species and participate directly in building resilient local food systems.
What does Abey believe about animal welfare?
She believes meaningful improvements in animal welfare come from supporting responsible and regenerative farming practices rather than rejecting all forms of animal agriculture.
Why are resilient food systems important?
Localized and regenerative food systems can strengthen communities, improve soil health, reduce dependence on industrial agriculture, and create more transparency between consumers and producers.
Episode Highlights
Abey shares the surprising path from vegetarianism to regenerative ranching.
A discussion about why animals are essential to healthy agricultural ecosystems.
The realities of raising livestock ethically on a family farm.
Insights into reconnecting consumers with where food actually comes from.
Reflections on moving from Los Angeles wellness culture to rural farm life.
Why supporting small farms can directly improve animal welfare outcomes.
The connection between nutrition, ecology, and resilient communities.

Resources
Abey's Website —  radicalfarmbook.com
Abey's Book Recommendation - Milk Into Cheese, David Asher
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/RadicleFarm for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this episode, Greg Peterson sits down with DePhane Weaver, founding president of the Garden Exchange Stands organization, to explore how neighborhood seed and plant sharing can strengthen local food systems and reconnect communities. Inspired by family traditions of gardening and generosity, DePhane shares how a simple neighborhood exchange evolved into a nonprofit network with hundreds of garden stands across Arizona and beyond. The conversation dives into food sovereignty, community resilience, pollinator support, permaculture principles, and the joy of sharing seeds, plants, tools, and gardening knowledge. DePhane explains how Garden Exchange Stands helps neighbors connect through a global interactive map and volunteer-driven community network. This episode is a powerful reminder that growing food is about more than harvests — it’s about relationships, local resilience, and creating spaces where people can give, learn, and belong.
Our Guest: DePhane is the founding president of the Garden Exchange stands organization, inspired by family tradition of gardening and community service to FE champions, seed and plant sharings as a timeless way to connect neighbors, support wildlife and grow local food. Through a global map of exchange stands, the organization helps communities build gardens and a food sovereignty network.
Key Topics
Garden Exchange Stands nonprofit
Community-based seed and plant sharing
Food sovereignty and local food systems
Neighborhood garden exchange networks
Pollinator-friendly gardening
Permaculture-inspired community design
Seed saving and seed stewardship
Free garden exchange stands and seed libraries
Building resilient neighborhood communities
Gardening as a tool for connection
Volunteer-driven nonprofit organizing
Sharing herbs, cuttings, tools, and garden supplies
Interactive global garden stand mapping
Sustainable living and wildlife habitat gardening

Key Questions Answered
What is a Garden Exchange Stand?
A Garden Exchange Stand is a neighborhood sharing station where people exchange seeds, plants, herbs, gardening tools, books, and other garden-related items for free. Some are permanent outdoor structures while others are portable or seasonal.
How did Garden Exchange Stands begin?
The project started organically when DePhane hosted seed and plant exchanges at her home. Leftover plants and supplies were placed near a neighborhood bench for others to take, eventually evolving into a larger community-driven nonprofit network.
Why are garden exchange networks important?
They strengthen local communities, encourage food production, reduce waste, support pollinators, and create opportunities for neighbors to connect through gardening and shared resources.
How do people find exchange stands?
Garden Exchange Stands uses an interactive online map where users can search by city, stand name, or location to find participating stands and seed-sharing sites.
What kinds of items are exchanged?
Participants share seeds, seedlings, herbs, cuttings, tools, gardening books, shade cloth, baskets, aprons, painted rocks, and seasonal harvests.
Can people participate even if they live in an HOA?
Yes. Many participants create small movable stands or seed libraries that fit HOA guidelines while still serving their local community.
How does the organization support community resilience?
The network encourages local food production, seed saving, pollinator habitat creation, and community cooperation — all key components of resilient local food systems.
What role do volunteers play in the organization?
The entire network is volunteer-powered. Volunteers help moderate groups, maintain stands, move plants between locations, host events, and support educational workshops.
Why are herbs recommended for beginner gardeners?
Herbs are inexpensive to grow, easy to maintain, highly productive, and useful for cooking and wellness. DePhane especially recommends rosemary and basil for beginners.
What larger mission drives the organization?
The mission centers on reconnecting people through gardening, sharing abundance, supporting wildlife, and rebuilding a culture of local food production and neighbor-to-neighbor generosity.
Episode Highlights
DePhane shares how her family’s gardening traditions inspired the creation of Garden Exchange Stands.
The organization now supports hundreds of exchange locations throughout Arizona and additional stands across the United States.
Garden stands operate similarly to Little Free Libraries, but for seeds, plants, and gardening supplies.
Community members help maintain stands by watering plants, tidying displays, and redistributing excess supplies.
The nonprofit promotes pollinator habitats alongside food production and seed saving.
A Mother Earth News feature helped expand awareness of the movement into other states.
Volunteers regularly transport plants and cuttings between cities to support gardeners across the region.
DePhane explains how gardening creates lasting emotional connections between neighbors and communities.

Resources
Garden Exchange Stands
Arizona Garden Exchange Stands Facebook Group
Seed Library Network
Book Recommendation — The Complete Book of Herbs by Leslie Bremness
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/GardenExhangeStands for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!
*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

With Host Greg Peterson and Guests Bill McDorman and Rebecca Newburn
Find our monthly Seed Chat at SeedChat.org
In This Podcast: This episode of Seed Chat explores the future of seed sovereignty through two connected lenses: grassroots seed libraries and the global seed banking system. Greg Peterson is joined by Bill McDorman and special guest Rebecca Newburn to examine how communities can steward seeds locally while industrial institutions struggle to preserve crop diversity at scale. Rebecca shares how the seed library movement has grown into a global network and why the next challenge is helping communities “close the loop” by saving and returning seeds. Bill then zooms out to explain the history, promise, and limitations of international seed banks—and why local seed stewardship may be our most resilient path forward.
Key Topics
Seed Library Network
Community seed libraries
Seed saving education
CGIAR international gene banks
Global Crop Diversity Trust
Svalbard Global Seed Vault
GRIN (Genetic Resources Information Network)
Regional seed co-ops
Climate adaptation through seed diversity
Snake River Seed Cooperative
Utopian Seed Project

Key Questions Answered
How do seed libraries actually strengthen local food systems?
Seed libraries give communities free access to seeds while rebuilding the habit of growing, saving, and sharing locally adapted crops. Their long-term value is not just seed distribution, it is creating local resilience through community stewardship and regional seed knowledge.
What makes a seed library successful over time?
The strongest seed libraries are sustained by committed people, clear systems, and community participation. Whether run by one passionate organizer or a collective, successful libraries create pathways for education, local seed donations, and long-term stewardship.
What does it mean to “close the loop” in a seed library?
It means moving beyond simply borrowing and planting seeds. A resilient seed library teaches people how to save seeds, clean them, label them, and return them so the system becomes regenerative instead of extractive.
What is CGIAR and why does it matter?
CGIAR is a global agricultural research network that manages 11 major international gene banks holding hundreds of thousands of seed accessions. These collections preserve crop diversity and serve as a global backup for agriculture, but they are increasingly underfunded and difficult to access.
Why are global seed banks under pressure?
Major seed banks face chronic funding shortages, institutional bottlenecks, and climate-related risks. Even the world’s largest backup systems, including Svalbard, are vulnerable to warming temperatures, infrastructure strain, and political instability.
Why is local seed saving becoming more urgent?
As climate disruption, fertilizer shortages, and industrial fragility intensify, communities will need crops adapted to local conditions. Local seed saving builds food security, preserves biodiversity, and gives communities direct control over future growing conditions.
What role do regional seed companies and seed co-ops play?
Regional seed companies and co-ops bridge the gap between grassroots seed libraries and commercial distribution. They grow regionally adapted seed at scale, distribute locally, and help create more durable seed infrastructure.
Why does Bill argue that “nobody’s coming”?
Bill’s central argument is that communities cannot rely solely on governments, institutions, or global systems to protect seed diversity. The responsibility for preserving and adapting seeds increasingly falls to local growers, seed savers, and regional networks.
Episode Highlights
Rebecca Newburn explains how seed libraries have evolved from a novel idea into a global movement with thousands of community-led seed libraries.
Seed libraries succeed when they move beyond free seed distribution and teach people how to save and return seeds.
Rebecca shares new downloadable “zines” designed to help gardeners plant, save, and return seeds with clear instructions.
Bill outlines how CGIAR’s global gene banks were built to preserve crop diversity but now struggle with access, staffing, and long-term funding.
The Global Crop Diversity Trust still lacks the endowment needed to sustainably maintain major international seed collections.
Bill argues that climate resilience depends on getting seed diversity back into the hands of growers, not just preserving it in vaults.
Regional seed banks and co-ops may offer a more resilient model than centralized institutions alone.
Collaboration—not competition—is framed as the cultural shift needed to rebuild seed resilience at scale.

Resources
Find out about Seed libraries — Seed Library Network
Monthly Seed chat — Urban Farm Seed Chat
Podcast Archive — Urban Farm Podcast
Newsletter — Seed Library Network Substack
Regional Seed Inspiration — Snake River Seed Cooperative
Regional Seed Inspiration — Utopian Seed Project
Visit UrbanFarm.org/982 for the show notes and links on this episode!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. You can chat with Greg to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

This Seed Chat explores the growing consolidation of global seed ownership and the implications of patenting life. Farmer Greg and Bill McDorman dive into the history of seed patent law, the rise of corporate control, and the tension between industrial agriculture and traditional seed saving. They highlight global efforts, especially in Europe, to resist seed patents and protect biodiversity. The episode emphasizes seed saving as both a practical skill and a powerful act of resilience and autonomy.
Key Topics
Corporate consolidation of global seed ownership
Seed patenting and intellectual property rights
Supreme Court case Diamond v. Chakrabarty (1980)
Plant Variety Protection Act (PVPA)
Utility patents vs. plant breeder protections
European coalition: No Patents on Seeds
Role of NGOs and international advocacy
Open Source Seed Initiative (OSSI)
Center for Food Safety legal efforts
ETC Group and global seed policy research
Organic Seed Alliance publications
Seed saving as resistance and resilience
Genetic diversity and climate adaptation
Industrial agriculture vs. small-scale seed saving

Key Questions Answered
Who controls the world’s seeds?
A small number of multinational corporations dominate the global seed market, controlling a significant percentage of commercial seed distribution. This concentration is driven by mergers, acquisitions, and patent protections that favor industrial agriculture.
How did seed patenting become legal?
The 1980 Supreme Court ruling in Diamond v. Chakrabarty opened the door for patenting living organisms. This decision enabled utility patents on seeds, allowing companies to claim ownership over genetically modified—and later even conventionally bred—plants.
What was the original compromise to protect seed breeders?
The Plant Variety Protection Act (PVPA) provided a 20-year protection period for breeders while still allowing farmers to save seeds and researchers to use protected varieties. This balance has been eroded by utility patents.
Why are seed patents controversial?
Seed patents restrict farmers from saving seeds and limit other breeders from using patented genetics. This undermines traditional agricultural practices and reduces biodiversity.
What is being done globally to resist seed patents?
Organizations like No Patents on Seeds in Europe mobilize public campaigns, monitor patent filings, and challenge approvals. Coalitions of NGOs are working to influence policy and raise awareness.
What is the Open Source Seed Initiative?
OSSI is a movement that protects seeds from patenting by creating a legal framework that ensures varieties remain freely available for use, breeding, and saving.
Why is seed saving important?
Seed saving preserves genetic diversity, strengthens local food systems, and gives growers autonomy. It’s a foundational practice that has sustained agriculture for over 10,000 years.
Is seed saving difficult?
No—contrary to common belief, seed saving is simple at a small scale. The complexity often associated with it comes from industrial agriculture requirements, not backyard or community gardening.
Episode Highlights
Global seed ownership is increasingly concentrated among a few corporations.
The 1980 Supreme Court ruling enabled the patenting of life forms.
The PVPA once balanced breeder rights with farmer freedoms.
Utility patents now restrict both seed saving and research.
European NGOs have mobilized hundreds of thousands against seed patents.
Seed saving is accessible, resilient, and historically proven.
Genetic diversity is critical for adapting to climate change.
Local seed saving builds community and food sovereignty.

Calls to Action & Resources
Join Live Seed Chats - https://seedchat.org
Learn about seed freedom advocacy - https://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org
Explore open-source seeds - https://osseeds.org
Support legal advocacy - https://www.centerforfoodsafety.org
No Patents On Seeds - https://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/en
Organic Seed Alliance - https://seedalliance.org/
A Guide to Seed Intellectual Property Rights - https://seedalliance.org/publications/a-guide-to-seed-intellectual-property-rights/
Penn Parmenter - https://www.pennandcordsgarden.com/
Seed The Untold Story - https://www.seedthemovie.com
Email Bill at [email protected]


Canada
National Farmers Union - Save Our Seed - https://www.nfu.ca/learn/save-our-seed/
Seed Change - https://weseedchange.org/
etc Group - Research global seed policy — https://www.etcgroup.org

Visit UrbanFarm.org/981 for the show notes and links on this episode!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. You can chat with Greg to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

A Rosie On The House Replay
This episode explores practical, low-cost strategies for reusing household gray water to irrigate landscapes. Brad Lancaster shares decades of experience designing regenerative water systems in dryland environments, emphasizing simple gravity-fed solutions over complex infrastructure. The conversation highlights how homeowners can dramatically reduce water use by “stacking functions” and capturing water already on-site. By pairing gray water with rainwater harvesting, households can meet most or all of their irrigation needs.
 Brad Lancaster runs a successful permaculture consulting design and education business in Tucson, Arizona. He's focused on integrated and sustainable approaches to landscape design, planning and living. Growing up in a dryland environment, water harvesting has long been one of his specialties and a true passion. He's the author of the Permaculture Bible for Water Harvesting, Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond, Volumes One and Two. And he has just released new color versions, revised and expanded of both of them.
Key Topics
Gray water (definition and household sources)
Difference between gray water and black water
Brad Lancaster (water harvesting expert)
Rainwater harvesting systems
Gravity-fed irrigation design
Soil as a living filtration system
Mulch basins and infiltration strategies
Laundry-to-landscape systems
Outdoor shower gray water reuse
Water conservation in dryland climates
Arizona gray water regulations (13 guidelines)
Soap and detergent impacts (salt vs liquid)
Planting water before plants (design philosophy)
Evapotranspiration and passive cooling

Key Questions Answered
What is gray water and how much of household water does it represent?
Gray water is lightly used water from showers, sinks, bathtubs, and washing machines. It represents a significant portion of household water use—nearly equal to outdoor irrigation demand—making it a major opportunity for reuse.
Is gray water safe to use in the landscape?
Yes, when basic guidelines are followed. Avoid toxins, prevent pooling, and distribute water across multiple areas. Soil biology naturally filters the water, making it safe for fruit trees and many landscape plants.
How can homeowners start using gray water cheaply and easily?
Simple systems like redirecting a washing machine hose or using an outdoor shower can send water directly to plants using gravity. No pumps, tanks, or complex filtration systems are needed.
What soaps and products should be used with gray water systems?
Liquid soaps are preferred over powdered detergents because they contain fewer salt-based fillers. Avoid chlorine bleach and opt for hydrogen peroxide alternatives to protect soil health.
Why shouldn’t gray water be stored in tanks?
Stored gray water quickly turns septic due to organic matter, creating odor and health issues. It’s best used immediately by directing it into soil systems.
How does combining gray water and rainwater maximize impact?
Together, they can meet nearly all irrigation needs for a landscape, especially with low-water-use plants. This reduces reliance on municipal water and increases resilience.
What does “plant the water first” mean?
Design the landscape to capture and infiltrate water using basins and contours before planting. This ensures plants receive consistent moisture naturally.
Where should plants be placed in a water-harvesting landscape?
Higher water-use plants should be placed near water sources like roofs or gray water outlets. Trees should be positioned for shade and cooling benefits, especially on east and west sides of buildings.
Episode Highlights
Gray water is “perennial water”—it flows daily as long as you live in your home
You’ve already paid for this water—reuse it instead of sending it to the sewer
A simple laundry system can irrigate multiple trees by rotating a drain hose
Soil acts as a living sponge and filter, outperforming mechanical systems
Outdoor showers can double as irrigation systems and cooling zones for animals
Avoid overcomplication—gravity systems are cheaper, more reliable, and effective
Capturing both rainwater and gray water can eliminate most irrigation needs
Water harvesting landscapes create cooler microclimates and support biodiversity

Calls to Action & Resources
Brad Lancaster Resources — https://www.harvestingrainwater.com
YouTube Channel — Search “Brad Lancaster water harvesting”
Books — Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond (Volumes 1 & 2)
Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/980 for the show notes and links on this episode!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!
*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.