The Urban Farm Podcast with Greg Peterson

The Appalachian Growers Seed Collective w/ Shelby Mandonado and Leeza Chen
In this Episode Shelby Mandonado and Leeza Chen share the story behind the Appalachian Growers Seed Collective, a collaborative network of farmers producing and stewarding locally adapted seeds for the Southern Appalachian region. They discuss why regional seed production matters, how climate change makes local adaptation increasingly important, and how farmers can reclaim seed sovereignty by saving and sharing seeds. The conversation explores the practical realities of launching a seed collective, preserving heirloom varieties, and strengthening local food systems through collaboration rather than competition. It is an inspiring discussion about resilience, biodiversity, and the long-term power of community-grown seeds.
Our Guests: Shelby is a farmer, organizer, and mother with a passion for collaborative models of community building based around our shared love of the land. And
Leeza is a seed farmer near Asheville, North Carolina. She is inspired by the way seeds are both deeply personal and powerfully political, often leaning on them as a lens to understand our connection to the land, culture, and sovereignty.
Key Topics
Appalachian Growers Seed Collective
Shelby Mandonado
Leeza Chen
Southern Appalachian seed stewardship
Bioregional seed adaptation
Seed sovereignty
Local food systems
Community-based seed production
Seed farming
Climate resilience in agriculture
Utopian Seed Project
Heirloom and heritage crop preservation
Farmer collaboration and shared equipment
Seed saving as cultural preservation

Key Questions Answered
What is the Appalachian Growers Seed Collective?
A regional network of approximately ten farmers who collaboratively grow, steward, package, and sell locally adapted seed varieties while sharing equipment, knowledge, and resources.
Why are locally adapted seeds so important?
Seeds grown and selected in a specific region become better adapted to local climate, weather patterns, soils, pests, and diseases, improving reliability for future growers.
What is a seed farmer?
A seed farmer allows crops to complete their full life cycle, harvesting mature seed instead of edible produce, then cleaning, testing, and packaging seed for future planting.
Why has on-farm seed saving declined?
Commercial seed industry consolidation has led many growers to purchase seed annually rather than saving their own, reducing regional adaptation and local seed resilience.
How did the COVID-19 pandemic influence the collective?
Seed shortages during the pandemic exposed vulnerabilities in the food system and highlighted the need for local seed production and regional seed independence.
How was the collective started?
The founders secured a grant, purchased shared seed-processing equipment, built a mobile processing trailer, and spent significant time developing trust, shared values, and collaborative systems before expanding production.
What makes Southern Appalachian seed production unique?
The region's humid climate presents challenges rarely addressed by traditional seed-saving literature, requiring local experimentation and farmer-to-farmer learning.
How can others start a regional seed collective?
Begin with trusted growers, define shared values and goals, develop a complementary seed collection, share resources, and grow at the "speed of trust."
How does the Utopian Seed Project support the collective?
The nonprofit evaluates diverse crop varieties through research and field trials, then shares promising selections with the collective for regional seed production and distribution.
What role does seed stewardship play in climate resilience?
Saving seed from plants that survive local stresses gradually builds populations better adapted to changing environmental conditions.
Can someone without a farming heritage become a seed steward?
Absolutely. Every seed saver can become the first generation of a new seed lineage by preserving, sharing, and passing seeds to future growers.
Episode Highlights
The collective includes about ten farmers working together to grow, process, and market locally adapted seeds.
Seeds are selected only after proving themselves through multiple growing seasons in Southern Appalachian conditions.
COVID-19 seed shortages revealed how dependent local food systems are on distant commercial seed suppliers.
Shared equipment, including a mobile seed-processing trailer, allows small farmers to access professional seed-cleaning tools.
Trust-building, shared meals, and collaborative decision-making are considered just as important as technical farming skills.
Climate change makes regional seed adaptation increasingly valuable for future food security.
Every heirloom seed carries generations of cultural history, family traditions, and local knowledge.
Anyone can become the first ancestor in a new seed-saving tradition by simply beginning to save and share seed.

Resources
Appalachian Growers Seed Collective Store — https://utopianseed.org/store
Utopian Seed Project — https://utopianseed.org
Real Seeds ZigZag Winnower Plans — https://www.realseeds.co.uk
Connect with Leeza Chen — leeza@utopianseed.org
Recommended Book - The Seed Garden by Jared Zystro
Follow Utopian Seed Project — Instagram, Facebook, and the Utopian Seed Project mailing list for breeding trials, research, and seed releases.
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/SeedCollective for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode we have Landen Schaelling, founder of Sacred Soil Solutions, sharing how healthy soil biology transforms plant health from the ground up. Drawing on years of homesteading, regenerative soil research, and microscopy, he explains why bacteria, fungi, and other microbes are the true engine behind thriving gardens and farms. The conversation explores the science of rhizophagy, microbial ferments, compost quality, and practical strategies that gardeners and farmers can immediately implement to build healthier, more resilient soil. Landen also discusses how understanding living soil can reduce fertilizer inputs, improve plant immunity, and restore natural ecological balance.
Our Guest: Landen Schaelling is the founder of Sacred Soil Solutions. He is focused on bringing optimal and approachable microbial inputs to gardeners and homesteaders, while also teaching farmers in the American West how to implement soil-building solutions at scale. Landen has been homesteading through a permaculture lens in Northern Arizona for over a decade. In the last couple of years, he has devoted his focus to restoring holistic soil microbiology and using practical microscope work to verify and guide that process.
Key Topics
Living soil biology
Soil microbiome
Rhizophagy (plant root feeding)
Compost quality and fungal dominance
Soil microscopy
Symbiotic Antioxidative Microbes (SAM)
Microbial ferments
Compost extracts vs. compost teas
Soil pH and alkalinity
Water retention in arid climates
Plant Health Pyramid
Complete protein synthesis in plants
Regenerative agriculture
Homesteading and permaculture

Key Questions Answered
What makes soil truly healthy?
Healthy soil contains a balance of minerals, water, air space, organic matter, and abundant biological life. Understanding each site's history helps determine the best path toward regeneration.
Why are microbes so important?
Microbes drive nutrient cycling, improve plant nutrition, build soil structure, support water retention, and create resilient ecosystems that naturally suppress disease and pests.
What is rhizophagy?
Rhizophagy is the process by which plant roots actively absorb bacteria and yeast through root tips, consume them, and gain proteins, micronutrients, and growth-promoting compounds directly from living microbes.
Why does compost sometimes perform better than fertilizer?
High-quality compost delivers living biology rather than simply nutrients. Plants respond rapidly when beneficial microbes become available through compost or microbial ferments.
What's the difference between compost tea and microbial ferments?
Compost tea extracts microbes already living in compost, while microbial ferments grow stable populations of beneficial microbes that can be applied as foliar sprays or soil drenches.
Why is soil history important?
Past management practices—including flood irrigation, synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, and previous crops—continue to influence soil biology, fertility, and plant performance years later.
How can gardeners encourage healthier soil biology?
Build mature compost, reduce unnecessary disturbance, increase carbon-rich materials, apply microbial ferments, mulch consistently, and maintain proper moisture.
Can healthier soil reduce pests and diseases?
Healthy plants with complete protein synthesis become naturally less attractive to many insect pests while beneficial microbes improve plant immune function against common diseases.
How does soil microscopy help?
Microscopy allows growers to directly observe microbial populations, assess compost quality, diagnose biological deficiencies, and monitor progress during soil restoration.
What common mistake delayed Landen's success?
Using feedlot cattle manure overloaded his soil with nitrates, producing vigorous foliage but poor fruit production and severe pest pressure, ultimately leading him to study soil biology more deeply.
Episode Highlights
Landen left a traditional academic path after discovering permaculture and dedicated his life to regenerative homesteading.
Healthy soil depends as much on living biology as it does on minerals and organic matter.
Rhizophagy has changed how scientists understand plant nutrition, showing plants directly consume microbes.
Compost quality depends more on microbial diversity than simply creating dark, finished organic matter.
Acidic microbial ferments can help offset alkaline soils common throughout the American Southwest.
Living microbes improve plant nutrition, reduce pest pressure, and strengthen natural disease resistance.
Soil microscopy allows growers to verify biological activity instead of relying solely on assumptions.
Taking action before knowing everything is often the fastest path to learning and improving soil health.

Resources
Book Recommendation
Regenerative Soil by Matt Powers
Learn More
Sacred Soil Solutions School (Skool community)
Sacred Soil Solutions educational resources on microbial ferments

Follow
Facebook: Landen Schaelling
Instagram: Sacred Soil Solutions

Email
landen.schaelling@protonmail.com
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/SacredSoil for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode Aly Nickling-Riddle shares her journey from personal tragedy and corporate life to building a homestead in Northern Ontario. After leaving everything behind to travel in a vintage RV, she unexpectedly met her future husband, and together they pursued a simpler, more self-sufficient lifestyle. Aly discusses the realities of homesteading, the emotional and financial challenges many aspiring homesteaders underestimate, and the inspiration behind her book Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You? This conversation offers a practical roadmap for anyone considering a move toward greater self-reliance.
Our Guest: Aly is a Canadian author, keynote speaker, McGill lecturer, and freelance journalist who brings a refreshingly honest perspective to modern homesteading and self-sufficient living. With a background in media, business, and more than a decade of professional writing experience, she helps people think carefully before making major lifestyle changes. Her book, Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You?, encourages aspiring homesteaders to look beyond social media ideals and understand the real physical, financial, and emotional demands of rural life. Through workshops, lectures, and presentations, she focuses on practical planning, resilience, sustainability, and building realistic paths toward long-term self-reliance.
Key Topics
Aly Riddle
Riddle Ridge Homestead
Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You?
Self-sufficiency and resilience
Emotional challenges of homesteading
Financial planning before buying land
Community and neighbor relationships
Rural versus urban lifestyles
Infrastructure costs and land development
Preparedness and disaster resilience
Building realistic homestead plans
Personal consultations for aspiring homesteaders
Hurricane Helene recovery lessons
The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery

Key Questions Answered
Why did Aly choose the homesteading lifestyle?
After experiencing multiple personal tragedies and a divorce, Aly decided to rebuild her life from scratch. She left the corporate world, traveled in an RV, and eventually found a path toward a simpler, more intentional lifestyle.
What inspired the book Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You?
Aly and her husband noticed many people leaving homesteading after only a couple of years because they entered the lifestyle with unrealistic expectations. The book was created to help people understand what they are truly signing up for before they buy land.
What makes this book different from other homesteading books?
Most homesteading books focus on skills and projects after purchasing land. Aly's book focuses on the planning, financial, emotional, and practical considerations that should happen years before purchasing property.
What is the biggest misconception about homesteading?
Many people believe homesteading is a slower, stress-free lifestyle. In reality, it replaces urban stresses with different challenges that require resilience, adaptability, and commitment.
How does Aly define homesteading?
Homesteading is any effort to become more self-sufficient and less dependent on systems that can fail. It can happen in rural settings, suburban backyards, or even urban apartments.
What hidden costs surprise new homesteaders?
Infrastructure expenses such as wells, septic systems, driveways, utilities, and ongoing maintenance are often underestimated. Many people also overestimate how quickly a homestead can generate income.
Why is community important for homesteaders?
Strong neighbor relationships provide support, skill sharing, trade opportunities, and resilience during emergencies. Community often determines long-term success more than individual effort.
What lesson did Aly learn from a tornado striking her property?
The experience reinforced that no amount of planning eliminates uncertainty. Gratitude, adaptability, and resilience become essential when nature disrupts carefully crafted plans.
What drives Aly's work today?
She is passionate about helping people move from dreaming about self-sufficiency to creating practical, realistic plans that can succeed over the long term.
Episode Highlights
Aly rebuilt her life after personal tragedy by leaving corporate life and traveling full-time in a vintage RV.
She met her future husband on the very first day of a work-camping opportunity in Florida.
Their homesteading journey required far more planning and time than they originally expected.
Emotional resilience is often more important than practical skills for long-term success.
Homesteading can be practiced anywhere, not just on large rural properties.
New homesteaders frequently underestimate infrastructure and development costs.
Community relationships can be as valuable as land, tools, and equipment.
A tornado that dropped over 100 trees on Aly's property became a lesson in gratitude and resilience.

Calls to Action & Resources
Book — Homesteading: Is It the Lifestyle for You? (Available through Amazon and local bookstores)
Instagram — Riddle Ridge Homestead
Facebook — Riddle Ridge Homestead
Consulting Services — Personal planning consultations for new and aspiring homesteaders available through the website.
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/RiddleRidge for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

Harvesting, Milling, and Cooking with Arizona’s Native Superfood
In this episode we explore mesquites as a desert food source, hosted by Romey Romero & Farmer Greg. This episodes guests are Peggy Sue Creekmore and Mike Clow and we explore one of the Sonoran Desert’s most abundant and overlooked food sources: mesquite beans. The conversation covers how to identify quality mesquite trees, harvest pods safely, dry them properly, and turn them into nutritious mesquite flour using a community hammer mill. Listeners learn why mesquite has been a staple food for centuries, how it compares to conventional flour, and how to transform this free local resource into delicious baked goods, drinks, and snacks. The episode also highlights educational workshops, harvesting walks, and community milling opportunities.
Key Topics & Entities
Mesquite bean harvesting
Mesquite flour production
Community hammer mill project
Native desert food systems
Peggy Sue Creekmore
Mike Clow
Farmer Greg Peterson
Sonoran Desert edible plants
Palo verde beans
Carob pods
Ironwood seeds
Aflatoxin prevention
Bruchid beetles
Urban Farm mesquite milling events

Key Questions Answered
Why is mesquite considered a valuable food source?
Mesquite pods are highly nutritious, naturally sweet, gluten-free, and rich in protein. Indigenous peoples and desert communities have relied on mesquite as a staple food across the Southwest and northern Mexico for centuries.
Do all mesquite trees produce good-tasting pods?
No. While all mesquite pods are technically edible, flavor varies significantly from tree to tree. Some are sweet and pleasant, while others can be chalky or have an unpleasant aftertaste. Tasting pods before harvesting is essential.
What does mesquite flour taste like?
Mesquite flour has a naturally sweet flavor often compared to graham crackers, caramel, or malt. Many recipes require little or no additional sugar because of the flour’s natural sweetness.
When is mesquite harvesting season?
Mesquite pods typically begin ripening in June, although weather and elevation can shift timing earlier or later. Pods should be fully tan, dry, and free of green coloration before harvesting.
How should mesquite pods be harvested?
Harvest pods directly from the tree rather than from the ground. Many harvesters use a tarp and gently shake or tap branches to collect ripe pods.
Why shouldn't pods be collected from the ground?
Ground-harvested pods can develop mold and aflatoxins, which may contaminate community milling equipment and reduce food safety.
How can harvested pods be stored properly?
Pods should be dried thoroughly in shallow boxes, baskets, dehydrators, ovens, or even a parked vehicle. Moisture is the primary cause of spoilage and milling problems.
What is a mesquite hammer mill?
A hammer mill is a specialized machine that pulverizes entire mesquite pods, including seeds and pod walls, into flour. Traditional grain mills cannot process mesquite effectively because its natural sugars gum up the machinery.
What can be made with mesquite flour?
Mesquite flour can be used in cookies, muffins, crepes, breads, energy balls, beverages, and other baked goods. It works particularly well in low-temperature baking and gluten-free recipes.
What happens to the material that doesn't become flour?
The coarse material, often called "chunky bits" or chaff, can be used to make tea, brewing mash, and other food products.
Episode Highlights
Mesquite flour is naturally sweet enough to reduce or eliminate added sugar in many recipes.
Flavor quality varies dramatically between mesquite trees, making tasting an important step before harvesting.
A mature mesquite tree can produce more than 100 pounds of pods in a season.
Harvesters should only collect pods directly from the tree to prevent mold contamination.
Proper drying is the single most important factor for successful milling.
The Urban Farm community hammer mill converts harvested pods into food-grade flour.
Mesquite flour is gluten-free and requires binders such as eggs, chia, or applesauce when baking.
Desert trees such as palo verde, carob, ironwood, and mesquite offer significant edible resources often overlooked by modern food systems.

Calls to Action & Resources
Mesquite Harvesting Walks — https://urbanfarm.org/mesquite
Mesquite Milling Appointments — https://urbanfarm.org/mesquite
Urban Farm Educational Programs — https://urbanfarm.org
Desert Food Tree Guide — https://learn.desertkitchen.net/trees

Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/990 for the show notes and links on this episode!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!
*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode Beth Cole of Riverview Farms shares how local farms strengthen communities, preserve farmland, improve food security, and support healthier ecosystems. Drawing from her experience as a market gardener in Western North Carolina, Beth explains the value of Certified Naturally Grown certification, community-supported agriculture (CSA), farmers markets, and home gardening. She also reflects on lessons learned from Hurricane Helene, the challenges of starting a farm, and why growing food is one of the most important skills families can develop.
Our Guest: Beth Cole is a market gardener in Asheville, North Carolina. At their farm they grow a variety of certified naturally grown veggies and cut flowers, are passionate about preserving farmland in the region and growing real food that nourishes the community.
Key Topics
Beth Cole
Riverview Farms
Market gardening
Asparagus production
Certified Naturally Grown (CNG)
Local food systems
Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)
Farmers markets
Hurricane Helene recovery
Soil health and floodplain farming
Garden plant starts
Dirt Craft Living Soils
Food security and preparedness
Growing food in Western North Carolina

Key Questions Answered
What is market gardening?
Market gardening is small-scale intensive food production focused on growing a diverse mix of vegetables and flowers for local markets, restaurants, and consumers. Riverview Farms grows on roughly two acres while maintaining additional acreage for wildlife habitat, hay production, and floodplain preservation.
How does asparagus grow?
Asparagus is a long-term perennial crop typically started from crowns. Growers wait several years before harvesting heavily, with full production often beginning around year five. Well-maintained asparagus beds can remain productive for 15 years or longer.
What is Certified Naturally Grown?
Certified Naturally Grown follows standards similar to organic certification but is designed for smaller farms. The program emphasizes sustainability, biodiversity, wildlife habitat, and farmland preservation while relying on peer-to-peer farm inspections rather than third-party auditors.
Why does buying from local farms matter?
Purchasing from local farms helps preserve farmland, protect watersheds, support pollinators, strengthen local economies, and provide farmers with a sustainable livelihood. Local food purchases keep money circulating within the community.
What is a CSA?
Community Supported Agriculture allows customers to purchase a subscription to a farm's harvest. Members share both the risks and rewards of farming while providing farmers with critical early-season income.
What positive lessons came from Hurricane Helene?
Although the storm caused significant damage throughout the region, Beth observed that floodplain farmland acted as a natural sponge, reducing downstream impacts. In some areas, nutrient-rich sediments deposited by floodwaters improved soil quality and organic matter.
Why should gardeners buy plants locally?
Locally grown plant starts are better adapted to regional growing conditions and often outperform plants shipped long distances to big-box stores. Supporting local growers also strengthens the regional food economy.
Why do new gardeners struggle?
Gardening is a learned skill that requires time, observation, and experience. Success depends on understanding local conditions, improving soil health, and accepting mistakes as part of the learning process.
Why are farmers markets important?
Farmers markets provide the freshest possible produce, often harvested within 24 hours of sale. They create direct relationships between growers and consumers while supporting local agriculture.
What motivates Beth's farming work?
Beth is driven by concerns about chronic disease, declining food quality, and the disconnect between people and real food. She believes locally grown produce can improve both individual and community health.
Episode Highlights
Beth transitioned from humanitarian work and Montana grain farming into market gardening in North Carolina.
Riverview Farms shifted from primarily asparagus production to diversified vegetable and flower production.
Asparagus requires patience, often taking five years before reaching full harvest potential.
Certified Naturally Grown certification strengthens farmer-to-farmer learning through peer inspections.
Buying local food directly supports farmland preservation, pollinator habitat, and watershed protection.
Hurricane Helene highlighted the important role farms play in absorbing floodwaters and protecting communities.
Local plant starts provide gardeners with healthier, more resilient plants adapted to regional conditions.
Farmers markets offer unmatched freshness while building relationships between farmers and consumers.
Soil quality is one of the most important investments gardeners can make.
Gardening success comes from persistence, observation, and continuous learning.

Calls to Action & Resources
Certified Naturally Grown
https://www.naturallygrown.org
Riverview Farms NC
Facebook: Riverview Farms NC
Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project (ASAP)
https://asapconnections.org
Dirt Craft Living Soils
https://dirtcraftorganics.com
Recommended Book
Grow Great Vegetables in North Carolina — A practical guide for understanding regional growing conditions, soil, weather patterns, and crop selection.
Visit www.urbanfarm.org/RiverviewFarms for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!
Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.