True Crime Conversations

Some women dream of launching a career before 25. Some dream of owning their first home. Jemma Lilley had a different goal: she wanted to kill someone before her 25th birthday, but she knew she couldn't do it alone.
Obsessed with serial killers and violent fantasy, Lilley set her sights on turning desire into reality. She found an accomplice in Trudi Lenon, an impressionable single mother whom she gradually drew into her world of fixation and planning. Together, they searched for what they chillingly described as the “perfect victim.” They chose 18-year-old Aaron Pajich-Sweetman, a vulnerable teenager who was a friend of Lenon’s son.
It is a case that still shocks those who hear it. A real-life horror story about manipulation, obsession, and the calculated, meticulous planning of two women who conspired to take the life of an innocent young man.
CREDITS
Guest: Tim Clarke
Host: Claire Murphy
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy
Audio Engineer: Jacob Round
GET IN TOUCH
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations
Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes.
Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] or send us a voice note.
If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636.
We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In June 2016, Karen Ristevski vanished from her home. Her husband, Borce, told their daughter she had gone for a walk and never returned. For months, police and family searched in vain.
Then, in February 2017, hikers stumbled upon her skeletal remains in a quiet nature reserve. Police pieced together CCTV footage and phone records, leading to Borce’s arrest. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter in 2019, after prosecutors were unable to prove intent.
Now, 7NEWS Investigations Editor Alison Sandy is digging deeper, not just into Karen’s case, but into a disturbing pattern: women whose deaths could have been prevented or discovered earlier, had the warning signs of escalating intimate partner violence been recognised sooner.
If you need support, it's available at 1800 RESPECT.
Find out more about the Kiss & Kill podcast here.
CREDITS
Guest: Alison Sandy
Host: Gemma Bath
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy
Audio Engineer: Jacob Round
GET IN TOUCH
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations
Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes.
Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] or send us a voice note.
If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636.
We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Darryl Gardiner grew up in a home ruled by unimaginable violence... and it almost destroyed him.
Witnessing and experiencing abuse from a terrifyingly young age, he followed the same path, becoming a violent man himself. But Darryl broke the cycle.
Now a father, clinician, and founder of programs helping men and women escape abuse, Darryl shares a raw, unflinching story of accountability, redemption, and what it truly takes to stop the cycle of violence.
Find out more about Rolling With The Punches at www.rollingwiththepunches.com.au
CREDITS
Guest: Darryl Gardiner
Host: Gemma Bath
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy
Audio Engineer: Jacob Round
GET IN TOUCH
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations
Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes.
Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] or send us a voice note.
If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636.
We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In October 1976, 16-year-old Trenny Gibson boarded a school bus in Knoxville, Tennessee, expecting a routine day. Instead, her horticulture class was taken on a rainy hike into the Great Smoky Mountains National Park without warning.
Unprepared and uneasy, Trenny borrowed a jacket from a fellow student. By mid-afternoon, she was gone. One moment she was on the trail, the next she had vanished. Nearly 50 years later, her disappearance remains unsolved. Questions linger about suspicious behaviour, missing evidence, and why the case quietly faded from view.
In this episode, we speak with podcast hosts Tim Pilleri and Lance Reenstierna about their investigation into the haunting mystery of Trenny Gibson.
You can listen to Tim and Lance's podcast Missing, here and watch their YouTube videos here.
Listen to Claire Murphy on Missing here.
CREDITS
Guests: Tim Pilleri & Lance Reenstierna
Host: Gemma Bath
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy
Audio Engineer: Jacob Round
GET IN TOUCH
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations
Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes.
Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] or send us a voice note.
If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636.
We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In May 2019, 25-year-old Courtney Herron was murdered after a night out in Melbourne’s CBD. What happened next would ignite national outrage and raise disturbing questions about justice in Australia.
In this episode, Courtney’s father, John Herron, speaks about the daughter he loved deeply, her generosity, humour, and instinctive kindness, and the night she crossed paths with the man who killed her. He lays bare the failures he witnessed inside the justice and mental health systems, and explains why, as both a grieving father and a lawyer, he believes Courtney was denied justice.
You can read more from John Herron in his writing for Mamamia, including his powerful open letter about Courtney’s death, here.
CREDITS
Guest: John Herron
Host: Gemma Bath
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Group Executive Producer: Ilaria Brophy
Audio Engineer: Jacob Round
GET IN TOUCH
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations
Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes.
Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] or send us a voice note.
If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636.
We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.