Agrarian Futures

Steve Gabriel joins us to unpack one of the most consequential myths shaping how we grow food in America: the separation between forest and field.
As a co-steward of Wellspring Forest Farm in Mecklenburg, New York, author of Silvopasture, and researcher at the Cornell Small Farms Program, Steve has been listening. Through a SARE-funded project called Farming with Trees, he's been in conversation with over 120 farmers, from Bronx-raised beginners to multi-generational stewards, exploring not just how to plant trees, but why it matters and what gets in the way.
What he's found is that the barriers to agroforestry aren't just technical. They're cultural, historical, and deeply personal, rooted in a Eurocentric agricultural paradigm that told farmers to clear the land and never look back.
In this episode, we dive into:
How personal relationships with trees in childhood shape a farmer's vision for the land
The paradigm shift required to move from stark field or stark forest toward something in between
How indigenous land stewardship modeled a working tree landscape long before "agroforestry" was a word
What livestock farmers, vegetable growers, and flower farmers each need from trees and why those needs are so different
Why starting with willow and poplar might matter more than starting with chestnuts and apples
The role of community, craft traditions, and living fences in rebuilding our relationship with trees
More about Steve (links below):
Steve Gabriel is an ecologist, farmer, and educator from the Finger Lakes Region of New York. Throughout his career spanning 20 years, Gabriel has taught thousands of farmers and land stewards about land planning, mushroom growing, and agroforestry. His experience working in academic research and extension, as a teacher and lecturer, and managing several working farm landscapes has built a unique balance of knowledge and practice which he brings to his work.
With his family, Gabriel co-stewards Wellspring Forest Farm, which is an agroforestry demonstration farm that produces mushrooms, nursery trees, pastured lamb, maple syrup, and elderberry in Mecklenburg, New York. He also collaborates with diverse individuals and organizations through the Farming with Trees Collective.
Gabriel previously served for 12 years as Extension Specialist for the Cornell Small Farm Program, focused on research and education on agroforestry and mushroom production. Steve co-authored Farming the Woods with Ken Mudge (2014) and is the author of Silvopasture (2019).
www.MycenaTrees.org -- his new non profit working on social aspects of agroforestry
www.FarmingWithTrees.org -- report on listening sessions with farmers and nursery stewards
www.WellspringForestFarm.com -- Steve's farm website
Agrarian Futures is produced by Alexandre Miller, who also wrote our theme song. This episode was edited by Drew O’Doherty.

Regenerative agriculture isn’t just about how we raise animals. It’s about whether the entire system around them makes sense.
Smaller, regenerative producers with meat businesses, have traditionally lacked an economic outlet for hides and other byproducts. That missing piece can be the difference between a system that works for regenerative farmers and one that doesn’t.
Jim and Mark Kleinschmit are working to rebuild that piece. Through Other Half Processing, they’re creating new pathways for regenerative hides and reconnecting ranchers to a leather economy that reflects the full value of the animal.
In this episode, we dive into:
• Why whole-animal thinking is essential to regenerative systems
• How value from hides and byproducts has been pulled out of local economies
• What that means for the economics of regenerative ranching
• What it takes to rebuild regional leather and processing infrastructure
• The role of tanneries, brands, and partnerships in closing the loop
• Where they see real opportunity to make these systems work again
More about Other Half Processing:
Jim & Mark Kleinschmit. Brothers that grew up on a family farm in Northeast Nebraska. Raised by parents who were early adopters and champions for sustainable and regenerative agriculture.
​OHP works directly with farmers/ranchers and small and medium sized meat processors to verify and buy traceable hides and other meat processing byproducts from regeneratively raised, organic, grassfed and other ethically raised animals. We aggregate and sell raw and finished products to apparel, food and pet sector companies.
Their business model is centered on providing shared economic returns to producer and other value chain partners, and fair pricing for customers and market partners.
Agrarian Futures is produced by Alexandre Miller, who also wrote our theme song. This episode was edited by Drew O’Doherty.

We walk into our local grocery store and most likely barely consider what’s on display in front of us. Forty thousand items. Stacked, uniform, produce. Cuisine from around the globe. Open often 24 hours.
As author Benjamin Lorr points out, that can be considered a miracle.
In The Secret Life of Groceries, Ben dives deep into the hidden machinery behind that miracle. He spent years inside the system, working behind a Whole Foods fish counter, riding cross-country with long-haul truckers, and tracing supply chains all the way to shrimp boats in Thailand. What he found is a system that delivers abundance, convenience, and quality at historically unprecedented levels. But it does so by squeezing every inefficiency out of the chain, and often squeezing workers and ecosystems along with it.
In this episode, we dive into:
• Why the modern supermarket truly is miraculous
• How deregulation reshaped trucking and the invisible logistics backbone of food
• What “just-in-time” efficiency means for grocery workers
• The hidden labor dynamics behind ultra-cheap shrimp and other commodities
• Why certifications and labels often can’t fix systemic incentives
• The tension between convenience, price, and ethics
• Whether we actually have the food system we’ve chosen
More about Benjamin:
Benjamin Lorr is the author of Hell-Bent, a critically acclaimed exploration of the Bikram Yoga community that first detailed patterns of abuse and sexual misconduct by guru Bikram Choudhury, and The Secret Life of Groceries, called “a titanic achievement of reportage, insight, humor, and humanity” examining the American supermarket from all angles. Lorr is a graduate of Montgomery County, Maryland public schools and Columbia University. He lives in New York City.
You can buy Benjamin’s books online here or for audiobooks, here.
Follow him on Instagram.
Agrarian Futures is produced by Alexandre Miller, who also wrote our theme song. This episode was edited by Drew O’Doherty.

I’m willing to bet that most of our listeners - like us - have traditionally seen acorns as food for squirrels, not people. But as Elspeth Hay points out in this conversation, that assumption says more about our food system than it does about the acorn.
For much of human history, acorns were a staple. They fed communities across North America, Europe, North Africa, and Asia - and in some cases - still do. They were managed, processed, stored, and celebrated. So how did we go from acorns as everyday food to acorns as woodland debris? In her fantastic book Feed Us with Trees, Elspeth traces how enclosure, industrial agriculture, and a narrow definition of “real farming” pushed perennial forest foods to the margins of our imagination.
In this episode, we dive into:
• Why acorns were once reliable staple crops, not novelty ingredients
• The myth that we can only feed ourselves with annual row crops
• How the loss of commons reshaped our relationship to forests and food
• What Indigenous land management, including fire, meant for food abundance
• The false divide between farming and foraging
• How pigs, oaks, and people once formed integrated food systems
• What it would take to bring acorns and other perennial tree foods back into our diets
More about Elspeth:
Elspeth Hay is the creator and host of the Local Food Report, a weekly feature that has aired on the Cape and Islands NPR station since 2008, and the author of Feed Us with Trees: Nuts and the Future of Food.
Deeply immersed in her own local-food system, she writes and reports for print, radio, and online media with a focus on food and the environment. You can learn more about her work at elspethhay.com.
Agrarian Futures is produced by Alexandre Miller, who also wrote our theme song. This episode was edited by Drew O’Doherty.

We’ve spent a lot of time on this show digging into the dire state of modern farming and ranching, and the challenging economics for those trying to build a regenerative future. Our guest today, Cate Havstad, is no stranger to these challenges as a first-generation farmer and rancher. That experience led directly to an innovative solution that could be an important missing piece in this economic puzzle.
As she explains, only about 65 percent of the cattle she sent out to slaughter was actually used, leaving hides and other materials treated as low-value byproducts rather than essential parts of a living system. That waste isn’t just ecological. It’s economic, and it puts real pressure on ranchers trying to do things the right way.
Cate is changing that. As the founder of Range Revolution, she’s building a new market for regenerative hides, turning them into high-quality leather goods while creating an additional revenue stream for ranchers committed to land stewardship. Her work challenges the idea that sustainability and luxury are incompatible, and shows how value-added products can help make regenerative ranching financially viable.
In this episode, we dive into:
• Why hides have been devalued in the modern meat system
• How waste in the supply chain undermines regenerative ranchers
• What it takes to build a leather supply chain aligned with land health
• Why luxury markets can play a role in regenerative economics
• The hidden costs of conventional leather production
• How whole-animal utilization strengthens rural livelihoods
• What a more honest pricing of materials could unlock for agriculture
More about Cate and Range Revolution:
Cate Havstad-Casad is a first-generation farmer/rancher, designer, systems-thinker and agricultural advocate.
At the age of 23 Cate founded Havstad Hat Company and began her career as a designer and maker. She has crafted hats for Post Malone, Shania Twain, Kacey Musgraves among other notable pop-culture icons.
Cate began farming with her husband in 2014, both first generation farmers. Starting on 5 acres of leased land, Cate and her husband now manage 1400 acres of farmland & rangeland at Casad Family Farms in Madras, Oregon. This work on the ranch and in building markets for regenerative meats informed the launch of Range Revolution in 2021; a category-defining regenerative leather goods company which is building 100% of its products out of traceable American cattle hides coming from verifiably regenerative ranches. Range Revolution addresses the 5 million cattle hides that are thrown into the trash each year, rebuilding systems for whole-carcass utilization, increasing margins for processors and producers, and harnessing brand building to tell stories that reconnect citizens to natural fibers and regional supply chains. Range Revolution offers both a collection of finished goods as well as B2B material development.
Cate believes deeply in building businesses that support regional, decentralized systems for agriculture of the middle to thrive, and that human health and ecosystem health are one in the same.
Agrarian Futures is produced by Alexandre Miller, who also wrote our theme song. This episode was edited by Drew O’Doherty.