The Defiant - DeFi Podcast

In this episode of The Defiant podcast, Camila Russo sits down in Buenos Aires (Devconnect) with Marissa Foster (Product, Ethereum Foundation) and Yoav Weiss (security researcher, Ethereum Foundation) to unpack The Trustless Manifesto and the Ethereum Interop Layer (EIL), why “trust assumptions” are quietly creeping into Ethereum’s stack, and what it will take to preserve Ethereum’s core values while making UX actually usable.We dig into the hidden places users are forced to trust intermediaries, from cross-chain interoperability and solvers to something most people never question: RPCs. Then we get practical: the guests walk through the EIL, a new approach to cross-chain UX that aims to deliver one-signature interop without introducing new trust assumptions, plus why the wallet becomes the center of the user’s security model.Finally, we zoom out: how should wallets warn users, what does “walkaway test” really mean, and why institutions may end up being one of the strongest forces pushing crypto toward less counterparty risk.Topic list: • Why Ethereum’s next phase is “mainstream adoption” — and why that raises the stakes • The Trustless Manifesto: what it is, why it was written, and what it’s trying to prevent • Where trust assumptions sneak in: bridges, interop protocols, sequencers, oracles • RPCs as a giant blind spot: “we trust RPCs blindly” and why that can have real-world consequences • Trustlessness vs UX: why “great values + bad UX” can still lose users • “You can’t build something trustless on top of something that isn’t trustless” • What users should demand — and why it can’t require everyone to be a security expert • How “beat” frameworks help: L2BEAT, upcoming interop criteria, and Walletbeat • The walkaway test: what happens if the team/server/intermediary disappears (or turns hostile)? • L2 sequencers: permissioned vs permissionless, censorship risk, and practical exit paths • Cloud dependencies (Cloudflare outage) and what it reveals about today’s “decentralized” apps • Ethereum Interop Layer (EIL) explained: one-signature, wallet-centric, self-executing interop • Why “solvers open the envelope” — and how EIL avoids that trust model • Liquidity providers, vouchers, and how users pay gas cross-chain without the usual friction • Standards and coordination: wallets, L2s, and dapps all need to meet in the middle • The HTTP analogy: Ethereum today as the “pre-HTTP internet” and what seamless interop could unlock • Institutions and counterparty risk: why big players may push hardest for trust-minimized infrastructure • What’s next: testnet learnings, audits, standards, wallet integrations, and 2026 mainnet target

In this episode of The Defiant podcast we speak with Morgan Krupetsky, VP of OnChain Finance at Ava Labs, to break down one of the most significant shifts happening in crypto today: the rapid institutionalization of blockchain and Avalanche’s strategy to lead it.Morgan walks us through Avalanche’s “real-world adoption first” ethos, explaining how its unique architecture enables enterprises, fintechs, banks, governments, and consumer apps to build purpose-designed blockchains while tapping into a shared liquidity hub.

Robert Leshner — the mind behind Compound, and now the founder of Superstate — believes the next trillion-dollar shift will come from bringing the world’s assets on-chain.In this episode, Cami sits down with one of DeFi’s earliest pioneers to unpack:Why DeFi itself shouldn’t change — but assets willHow tokenized T-bills, basis strategies, and even equities are finally getting institutional tractionWhy regulatory “tailwinds,” not new laws, unlocked the RWA boomThe two competing models of tokenized stocks — and why both will winWhat happens when DeFi becomes the infrastructure powering TradFiWhat he’d do differently after Compound’s messy transition to decentralized governanceRobert also gives us a candid breakdown of how Superstate is building “canonical tokenization” — letting public companies turn their actual stock into blockchain-native assets — and why the real breakthrough won’t come from issuance… but from DeFi use cases.

In a world of fast-advancing technology, we are told to trust in our own research. But as the crypto space matures, scams and exploits remain a constant presence. When your assets are gone, they are gone forever, with a near-zero chance of recovery. The old mantra of "Do Your Own Research" falls short against sophisticated threats like address poisoning, advanced malware, and convincing AI deepfakes. How, then, do we build a safer Web3 without sacrificing the decentralized ideals at its core?Alex Katz, CEO of the Web3 security solution Kerberus, joins us to explore this new frontier. We delve into the philosophical debate of autonomy versus protection, the push for auditing standards, and the future of wallet-native security.Chapters00:00 Android vulnerability: why mobile crypto is risky01:21 Building safer Web3 without sacrificing decentralization02:10 Crypto’s Wild West: few rules, big risks03:37 Why scams continue: prosecution, standards, protection gaps05:44 Kerberus approach and results: zero user losses06:24 Coverage up to $30K and growth needs08:24 Why DYOR is insufficient for modern threats09:33 Traders’ behavior, phishing risk, and automation11:25 Crypto antivirus vision and malware threats12:11 Hardware vs. hot wallets: balancing safety and speed14:41 Address poisoning, clipboard privacy, and deepfakes20:22 Autonomy vs. protection: beyond user education24:44 Wallet security should be default, like antivirus31:51 Getting grandma into Web3 safely32:29 Lightning round: tools, myths, key lessons36:04 Where to find Kerberus and closing notes

In the second episode of Ecosystems: Avalanche, we track the protocol’s trajectory, which included a peak valuation of $13 billion, followed by a period of consolidation and strategic redevelopment.The Defiant founder Camila Russo and Ava Labs' Chief Strategy Officer Luigi D’Onorio DeMeo are joined by founders from BENQI, Euler Labs, and LFJ, who are building on the Avalanche protocol. The conversation covers technical upgrades such as Octane and Etna, aimed at reducing fees, and Interchain Messaging, designed to enhance interoperability between blockchains. It also addresses the strategy to onboard institutional clients, including T. Rowe Price and Wellington, through customized Layer 1 solutions.Can Avalanche cultivate an ecosystem that thrives without relying on constant incentives, particularly regarding liquidity and user retention? Join us to find out.