Australia in the World

• Ep. 170: Trump, Albo and (Saint?) Kevin

  The much-anticipated face-to-face meeting between Prime Minister Albanese and President Trump has happened, not in the Oval Office but the Cabinet Room of the White House. The PM will be very pleased with how it went, with only one major casualty – embarrassment for Australia’s US Ambassador Kevin Rudd, after past tweets critical of the president were brought up, creating some awkwardness. To discuss the dynamics and outcomes of the meeting Darren welcomes Dr. Charles Edel to the podcast, a long overdue guest, and the best-placed individual anywhere to provide insight into these events, and the broader alliance relationship. Why was the meeting needed? While widely agreed to have gone well, what exactly made the meeting a success? What is the status of AUKUS now, and what about critical minerals? And, while he did not have a good time at the meeting, how has Kevin Rudd been an essential part of the process and key to its success? Charles is a senior adviser and the inaugural Australia Chair at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He previously taught at the University of Sydney, where he was also a senior fellow at the United States Studies Centre. Prior to that, Charles was a professor of strategy and policy at the U.S. Naval War College and served on the U.S. secretary of state’s Policy Planning Staff. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Charles Edel (bio): https://www.csis.org/people/charles-edel Abraham Denmark and Charles Edel, “The AUKUS Inflection: Seizing the Opportunity to Deliver Deterrence”, CSIS Australia Chair Report, August 2025: https://www.csis.org/analysis/aukus-inflection-seizing-opportunity-deliver-deterrence Annabel Crabbe, “When Donald Trump was ready to take his pound of flesh, Kevin Rudd was here to help”, ABC News, 21 October: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-10-21/trump-albanese-meeting-rudd-pound-of-flesh/105916336 Australian Industry Group, “Developing industry capability and partnerships for AUKUS Pillar 2”, Report, August 2025: https://www.aigroup.com.au/globalassets/news/reports/2025/ai_group_spg_report_aukus_pillar-ii.pdf Trent Dalton, Gravity let me go, (4th estate, 2025): https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9781460713334/gravity-let-me-go/

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• Ep. 169: Tim Watts MP on the Indian Ocean Region & inputs to successful foreign policy

  Darren welcomes back Tim Watts MP to the podcast. Tim is now the government’s Special Envoy for Indian Ocean Affairs having also served as assistant minister for foreign affairs in the Albanese government’s first term. The discussion begins with Tim’s new role and the importance of the Indian Ocean Region to Australia’s national interests. From there, Darren asks Tim to reflect on his time as Assistant Foreign Minister and what the work he did says about Australian foreign policy more broadly. What are the inputs to success? The conversation finishes with the vital (and ongoing) challenge of Asian capability.  Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Peter Dean and Alice Nason, An Australian Indian Ocean agenda to 2035, United States Studies Centre Report, September 2025: https://www.ussc.edu.au/an-australian-indian-ocean-agenda-to-2035 Allan Gyngell, “White-papering Australian foreign policy”, East Asia Forum, 22 May 2017: https://eastasiaforum.org/2017/05/22/white-papering-australian-foreign-policy/ Tim Watts, “Complacent nation: Australia and the Asian Century”, Lowy Interpreter, 22 September 2025: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/complacent-nation-australia-asian-century Joya Chatterji, Shadows at Noon: The South Asian Twentieth Century (Vintage, 2024): https://www.penguin.com.au/books/shadows-at-noon-9781529925555 David Van Reybrouck, Revolusi: Indonesia and the Birth of the Modern World (Vintage, 2025): https://www.penguin.com.au/books/revolusi-9781529931525 Stephen Dziedzic and Yiying Li, “BHP vs China Inc: What the iron ore dispute says about Australia's present and future”, ABC News, 17 October: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-10-17/what-bhp-china-iron-ore-dispute-means-to-australia/105901692

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• Ep. 168: Reporting from China on the bilateral relationship

  Former Victorian Premier Dan Andrews made headlines when he was snapped in a picture with Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un, amongst others, at China’s recent military parade. While Andrews’ activities were puzzling, they also raise bigger questions around both the opportunities and the limits of Australia’s bilateral relationship with China. Will Glasgow, The Australian newspaper’s North Asia Correspondent, based in Beijing, joins Darren for this episode. Will is winner of the Keith McDonald Award for Business Journalist of the Year and previously worked at The Australian Financial Review. The conversation begins with Will’s own story in his current role, beginning in Beijing in early 2020, then leaving China and reporting from Taipei, before returning to Beijing in 2024. The main focus however is the bilateral relationship, both from the perspective of Canberra and Beijing, but also from Australian states, especially Victoria, where Dan Andrews was Premier, and Western Australia. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Will Glasgow (bio): https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/will-glasgow Will Glasgow, “China’s warning to Australian delegation over ‘two-faced’ policy”, The Australian, 20 Sep 2025: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/beijings-warning-to-canberra-delegation-over-twofaced-policy/news-story/327ce23188ec4ed7e607e2f066ab010e Will Glasgow, “Australia wined, dined and hectored on Xi’s diplomatic conveyor belt”, The Australian, 13 Sep 2025: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/wined-dined-and-hectored-on-xis-diplomatic-conveyor-belt/news-story/84d5771d3b9c925797850baf29c1627b Will Glasgow, “Should Australian correspondents be based in Xi’s China?”, The Australian, 22 Jul 2025: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/should-australian-correspondents-be-based-in-xis-china/news-story/7b2375eb1343726f0d1a3cc5ea698e74 Geremie Barmé, “In a retro mood: The ethical dilemmas of cutting a deal with Xi Jinping’s China”, The China Project, 15 Sep 2023: https://thechinaproject.com/2023/09/15/in-a-retro-mood-the-ethical-dilemmas-of-cutting-a-deal-with-xi-jinpings-china/ Foreign Policy Live (podcast), “Adam Tooze on the End of Development”, 19 Sep 2025: https://foreignpolicy.com/podcasts/foreign-policy-live/adam-tooze-on-the-end-of-development/ Josh Rogin, Chaos Under Heaven: Trump, Xi, and the Battle for the Twenty-First Century, Harper Collins (2021): https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9780358449348/chaos-under-heaven/ Tanner Greer, “Bullets and Ballots: The Legacy of Charlie Kirk”, The Scholar’s Stage, 14 Sep 2025: https://scholars-stage.org/bullets-and-ballots-the-legacy-of-charlie-kirk/ Fuschia Dunlop, Invitation to a Banquet: The Story of Chinese Food, Penguin (2024): https://www.penguin.com.au/books/invitation-to-a-banquet-9780141997216 Qiu Xiaolong, The Inspector Chen Series: https://www.qiuxiaolong.com/books_inspectorChen.php The Chinese Mayor (documentary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w_LSNrpKPc

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• Ep. 167: Development and strategy in the South Pacific

  PM Albanese recently travelled to Solomon Islands for the Pacific Islands Forum as well as Vanuatu and PNG. The headlines focused on what didn’t happen – neither an ambitious deal with Vanuatu (Nakamal Agreement) nor a security agreement with PNG were finalised (though the PNG seems close). Today’s episode (recorded 18 Sep) considers these and other stories through the dual lenses of development policy and foreign policy with Bridi Rice, CEO of the Development Intelligence Lab, returning as guest. Development isn’t just isolated acts like building schools and hospitals but is very wide range of actions that are inevitably nested in a strategic context. How do we fit those things together? Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Examining 25 years of Australian international spending: https://www.devintelligencelab.com/budget-lines On Australian public perception of aid and development: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/australians-ahead-game-aid-debate-mps-should-follow ANU DevPol Analysis on budget implications: https://devpolicy.org/burden-shedding-the-unravelling-of-the-oecd-aid-consensus-20250307/ Lydia Khalil et al on democratic erosion: https://interactives.lowyinstitute.org/features/democratic-erosion/ The FT on AI as the new foreign aid: https://www.ft.com/content/d02eb244-8b48-48b1-bd17-f5e48677e22b Ezra Klein interviews Ben Shapiro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAqG00FUOK8 “Leave me lonely” by Hilltop Hoods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vak9wUPkL3Q

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• Ep. 166: The global economy: Tariffs, industrial policy, and a fraying order

  In Darren’s own research, topics like tariffs, industrial policy and the decaying rules-based economic order are a daily focus. On these issues and many more relating to the global economy, financial markets, economic security, and US-China geoeconomic rivalry, there is no-one whose expertise and judgment Darren respects more than that of Brad Setser, today’s guest. In a conversation recorded on 1 September, three big themes are canvassed: (i) tariffs, (ii) China, and (iii) Australia’s position in a fraying economic order. As the hosts of the “Odd Lots” podcast would say, Brad is the ‘perfect’ guest, and Darren could not be more thrilled. What is motivating Trump, and what could constrain him? Which country has negotiated the best deal? Is China’s export-driven economic model locked in? Could other countries rein in Beijing’s overcapacity? Is the rules-based economic order finished? Brad Setser is the Whitney Shepardson senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. His expertise includes global trade and capital flows, financial vulnerability analysis, and sovereign debt restructuring. Bred served as a senior advisor to the United States Trade Representative from 2021 to 2022 and as the deputy assistant secretary for international economic analysis in the U.S. Treasury from 2011 to 2015. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Brad Setser (bio): https://www.cfr.org/expert/brad-w-setser Odd Lots (podcast), "Liz Truss on the 'Doom Loop' Engulfing the UK Economy", 29 August 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyQOEJ38kW8 Jonathon Sine, “Litigation Nation, Engineering Empire: A review of Dan Wang's new book Breakneck”, Cogitations (substack), 28 August 2025: https://www.cogitations.co/p/litigation-nation-engineering-empire Bob Davis and Lingling Wei, Superpower Showdown: How the Battle between Trump and Xi Threatens a New Cold War (Harper Collins, 2020): https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9780062953070/superpower-showdown/ Mark Kurlansky, Salt: A world history (Penguin, 2003): https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9780062953070/superpower-showdown/

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