Cross Party Lines

Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines goes live at Q Theatre in Auckland — with a very special guest: the Right Honourable Helen Clark, former Prime Minister, former UNDP Administrator and member of The Elders.
An episode that moves from a government having a terrible week to the West Bank, and doesn’t pull a single punch along the way.
All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.
In this episode:
* A bad week for Luxon, a worse week for Peters — and a referendum nobody asked for — The week opened with unemployment at 5.6% nationally, 6.5% in Auckland — the highest in eleven years — wages up 2% against inflation running at 4.1%, and Labour leading National on all five of the top issues in the Ipsos poll. Then came Luxon’s comments to small businesses — essentially telling them to stand on their own feet — which he backtracked on within hours. Helen’s verdict is pointed: to change something as fundamental as the electoral system, you need a royal commission, a proper process and a mandate — not a prime minister who’s sick of his coalition partners.
* Populism, The Elders and the rise of the illiberal right — Chris is reading a book called Centrists of the World Unite and using it as a frame for the episode’s most wide-ranging conversation. He is genuinely alarmed: a potential President Le Pen next year, the AFD in Germany and Pauline Hanson in Australia. Helen welcomes Andy Burnham as a confident new leader capable of dispatching Farage and makes the structural point: social democratic and liberal centre parties have failed to build the kind of cross-bloc flexibility that the German FDP or the British Liberal Democrats offered at their best. The Opportunities Party, both Chris and Helen note, may be trying to fill that space — though Helen is sceptical of their land tax, and Phil’s concern remains unchanged: a TOP vote that falls below 5% is a vote for the status quo.
* The West Bank, Gaza and Palestine disappearing before our eyes — Helen has just returned from her third visit to the West Bank as part of The Elders’ work, and her account is one of the most vivid and sobering of any episode. Seven hundred thousand illegal settlers. Israeli flags lining the roads into Palestinian villages. Tear gas thrown into schoolyards. Olive groves inaccessible. A village with one road in after the other was closed. Her conclusion, shared with The Elders: Palestine is disappearing before our eyes.
Along the way: Paul Henry naming Helen Clark as the most impressive politician of recent decades, the SIS agent thrown down the stairs of the Political Studies Department in the 1970s, Raybon Kan’s line that when Peters told him to go back where he came from, he was relieved it wasn’t back to the third world — or Masterton.
Warm, historically rich and more emotionally charged than any episode before it, this live show is a reminder that the best political conversation happens when three people who have actually done the job sit in a room and tell the truth.
Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.
🎙 This was our Auckland live show at Q Theatre. Wellington’s Hannah Playhouse is next — with special guest Tracey Martin. Follow us so you don’t miss the announcement.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crosspartylines.substack.com

Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines returns with an episode that opens on Winston Peters telling a Green MP to go back to his own country and calling China’s leaders liars — and asks why the Prime Minister is applying a different standard to racism than he did to sexism.
Proudly brought to you by Frank Risk Management, the 100% kiwi-owned insurance brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.
In this episode:
* Peters goes off the rails — again, and possibly for the last time — Winston Peters told Lawrence Xu-Nan, a Green MP who has lived in New Zealand for most of his life, to go back to his own country. He then labelled China’s leadership — New Zealand’s biggest trading partner — a bunch of liars, prompting a formal rebuke from the Chinese Embassy that neither Phil nor Chris can recall happening before in their combined decades in politics. Chris reaches for Dylan Thomas — do not go gentle into that good night — and reads the whole episode as a career in its dying convulsions: disproportionate, extreme and politically self-destructive.
* Economies of Doubt and Data of Hope — $3.5 billion, 280 megawatts and a debate nobody is having — DataGrid, a Singapore-based company, is planning a data centre near Invercargill that would consume more than twice the power of all 62 existing data centres in New Zealand combined. Both Phil and Chris land cautiously in favour — New Zealand would effectively be exporting sustainable energy in the form of data, worth potentially $50-70 billion in economic benefits according to the Boston Consulting Group — but both are frustrated that neither the government nor the company is making the public case.
* Too many commissioners? — The episode closes on a genuine disagreement: Children’s Commissioner Claire Achmed has been removed halfway through her term after calling out worsening child poverty — 170,000 children now, up from 148,000. Phil defends her forcefully: child poverty in New Zealand is three times the developed-country average, a bipartisan approach is needed. Chris pushes back: we have too many commissioners, the role should sit with the minister responsible, and the Salvation Army, the Child Poverty Action Group and the Catholic Social Justice Commission make the case perfectly well without a separate office. They agree to disagree — and both agree the underlying problem is real, urgent and not being addressed.
Along the way: Jim Bolger yelling “racist” at Peters across the House in 1995 and then sharing a bench with him two months later and Chris’ memorable answer to Michael Cullen on the Iwi Kiwi advertisement (”that was then, this is now”).
Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.
🎟 Cross Party Lines Live is sold out — Live stream available for both shows at tapliveevents.com. $10 per show or $16 for both.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crosspartylines.substack.com

Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines returns to a week that generated more podcast fallout than any episode before it — the Stuart Nash story broke on this show — and moves through Trump’s forced labour tariffs, the Iran quagmire and a parliamentary endgame that Phil and Chris think is being handled badly.
All thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management - the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.
In this episode:
* The Nash fallout, Shane Jones’s knee pads and one rule for some — The Stuart Nash story dominated New Zealand media after breaking on Cross Party Lines, and both Phil and Chris use this episode to set the record straight on how it happened — and why Chris has no apology to make. But the more pointed argument is Phil’s: in the same week Nash was sacked by Peters for ill-judged comments about maternity leave, Shane Jones used the term “knee pads” to describe the Prime Minister’s behaviour toward Modi — a clear sexual innuendo that drew no consequences whatsoever.
* Trump’s forced labour tariffs — hypocrisy dressed as principle — The Supreme Court struck down Trump’s original reciprocal tariffs six to three, so the administration has now reimposed them under a forced labour justification. Phil dismantles the argument completely: the Global Slavery Index rates the United States itself as having 1.1 million people in modern slavery, Trump has gutted domestic funding to combat forced labour, and he is simultaneously doing favourable nuclear deals with Saudi Arabia — one of the world’s worst human rights offenders.
* Iran, the RMA and a parliament running out of time — Back home, 21 sitting days remain before the House rises on 24 September and the election writ is issued in early October. The order paper is heavy — the RMA replacement legislation alone will generate a hefty debate — and the government has already used urgency more than any administration since MMP, stripping select committee scrutiny from legislation that deserves it.
Sharp, historically grounded and angrier than usual in all the right places, this episode is a reminder that double standards in politics — whether applied to MPs or to nuclear deals — always have consequences, and the people who pay them are rarely the ones who set them.
Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.
🎟 Wellington sold out. Last few tickets for Auckland Q Theatre — 8 August with Helen Clark. Live stream also available for both shows at tapliveevents.com — $10 per show or $16 for both.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crosspartylines.substack.com

Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines returns with a week so packed it barely fits into an hour — Paul Henry joins ACT, Andy Burnham becomes Britain’s fourth Prime Minister in five years, Farage faces a comedian with a bin on his head, and back home, the government’s RMA and consent law moves prompt one of Chris’s angriest moments yet.
Thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned insurance brokerage.
In this episode:
* Paul Henry, celebrity candidates and the history of profile without substance — ACT’s announcement of Paul Henry as a candidate generates the most entertaining segment of the episode. Phil goes through the long and largely undistinguished history of celebrity candidates in New Zealand politics — weather forecasters, All Blacks, broadcasters, and one pair of underpants — and concludes that profile without policy preparation is a recipe for disappointment.
* Andy Burnham kisses hands, Farage resigns and Count Binface enters the arena — Britain has a new Prime Minister, its fifth in four years and seventh in ten. Phil and Chris welcome Andy Burnham’s communication skills, his record as Mayor of Greater Manchester, and his promise to rewire the economy for ordinary people and take power out of Westminster — while noting that the fiscal constraints facing him are identical to those that sank Starmer. The episode closes on Farage, who has resigned his Clacton seat to avoid scrutiny by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner over his undisclosed donations, triggering a by-election against 34 candidates — including Count Binface of the Recyclon Party, whose deputy is General Waste, and whose campaign slogan is simply that he is not Nigel Farage.
* Treaty arrangements, consent law, move-on orders and a government undoing its own party’s legacy — Chris makes his position unmistakable: the government’s move to overturn local council agreements with iwi is a betrayal of the National Party traditions built by Jim Bolger, Doug Graham and Ralph Hanan, done without proper process, without submissions, and in direct contradiction of assurances that such arrangements would be grandfathered. He calls the MPs responsible two-bit careerists who despise the party’s history and says so without qualification.
This episode is a reminder that the traditions that hold a political party — and a country — together are easier to destroy than to build, and that the people doing the destroying rarely understand what they’ve lost.
Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.
🎟 Auckland Q Theatre live show with Helen Clark — 75% sold. Wellington sold out. Get your tickets now at tapliveevents.com.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crosspartylines.substack.com

Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines opens with a tribute to Sam Neill — actor, environmentalist and proud New Zealander. Then it’s into a packed episode that moves from Modi’s visit to Pacific power plays, and closes with a verdict on the Roads of National Significance that is not kind.
Thanks to our Foundational Partner, Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.
In this episode:
* Modi in Auckland — a historic visit with an unresolved $35 billion question — Phil gives the visit its due — India is on track to become the world’s third largest economy, the FTA could do for New Zealand-India trade what the China agreement did after 2008, and Modi has genuinely modernised India and lifted millions out of poverty. And the $35 billion investment commitment — mentioned three times by Modi, described as a promise by Indian trade officials, and quietly reframed as an “aspiration” by Christopher Luxon — has the makings of the 21st century version of the Treaty of Waitangi.
* The Pacific power vacuum — and how New Zealand got left flat-footed — Phil and Chris are in agreement: New Zealand has dropped the ball, Foreign Affairs has missed the moment, and Penny Wong has run rings around us diplomatically. The deeper story is the vacuum created by Trump cutting US aid by 95% and declaring climate change a hoax — the two issues Pacific Island nations care most about — while China fills the gap with construction projects and red carpet treatment for small-nation leaders.
* Roads of National Significance — over promised, under costed and running out of road — The announcement that multiple Roads of National Significance have no start date, no finish date and no funding lands with a thud. Phil puts the blame squarely on Simeon Brown, who as transport spokesperson costed 17 roads at $24 billion in 2023 — a figure that has since more than doubled to $56 billion. Chris asks the question nobody has answered: why does everything cost so much in New Zealand, and why does analysis paralysis set in every time a project reaches the implementation stage?.
Wide-ranging, this episode is a reminder that the decisions made in Beijing, Canberra and Washington about the Pacific are not abstract — they show up in aid cuts, missile tests and the vacuum that small nations fill however they can.
Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.
🎟 Auckland live show at Q Theatre — Saturday 8 August with special guest Helen Clark. Nearly 70% sold. Get your tickets now at tapliveevents.com.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crosspartylines.substack.com