Swim Chats

This episode was originally released on 11/04/25.
Our first 'swim history' episode! Featuring special guest John Hancock, a marathon swimmer and the organiser of this year's ANZAC Day swim in Wellington. In this episode John tells the story of the brave, accomplished, and fascinating Sir Bernard Freyberg who painted himself in black and undertook a stealthy nighttime swim in Gallipoli during World War One. We also discuss a few other notable swimmers in history: John F Kennedy, Kahe Te-Rau-o-te-Rangi, and Mao Zedong. Finally, John Hancock reflects on his own 'big' swims, across Lake Taupō and Cook Strait / Raukawa Moana.
Lots of background links for this one – it is a history episode, after all!
⁠⁠Shona's family war tortoise⁠⁠ (Great War Stories, NZHistory.govt. nz).
⁠⁠ANZAC biscuit recipe⁠⁠ (Edmonds Cooking)
⁠Bernard Freyberg's Wikipedia page⁠
⁠Image of Freyberg⁠ (taken in 1904 at Te Aro Baths in Wellington) is courtesy of ⁠Horowhenua Historical Society inc, Levin, New Zealand⁠
'⁠Debunking Freyberg's Mexican myth⁠' – NZ International Review
'⁠When Sir Bernard tried to swim the Channel⁠' – Greymouth Evening Star, August 1950, via paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
⁠Kahe Te-Rau-o-te-Rangi,⁠ who swam from Kāpiti Island to the mainland in 1824 (Eleanor Spragg. 'Te Rau-o-te-rangi, Kahe', Dictionary of New Zealand Biography, first published in 1990, updated July, 2013. Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand)
'⁠The swim that changed Chinese history⁠' (Mao Zedong's river swims) The China Project, 14 July 2021.
'⁠Caroline Kennedy recreates her father JFK's heroic wartime swim⁠.' CNN, August 2023. (correction: JFK's crew were attacked by a Japanese boat, not a plane as I incorrectly stated in this episode)
John Hancock talks about his ⁠Cook Strait⁠ and ⁠Lake Taupō ⁠swims on the Effortless Swimming podcast
*
Support the podcast via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Swim Chats on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Hit 'Follow' so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for listening! :-)

Wen Erh Hsu completed the Triple Crown of Open Water Swimming (English Channel, Catalina Channel and 20 Bridges in Manhattan) within one season in 2024. She is the first Taiwanese person to swim solo across the English Channel and her Facebook page ‘Wen’s Swimming Club’ has more than 10,000 followers.
On this episode Wen talks about her journey from pool swimmer in Taiwan to ultramarathon training in the UK, as well as the importance of staying positive during challenging swims – such as when the water is ‘less warm' than ideal, when you're swimming the Catalina Channel overnight through the pitch black, or when a turbulent swim across the Cook Strait can not be completed (solution: book in for another go!).
Wen also talks about life in Taipei, where she coaches new swimmers and encourages people to join the wonderful world of open water swimming.
Follow Wen’s Swimming Club on Facebook
Wen's page on Openwaterpedia
*
Bunbathers ponytail swim cap giveaway – see the Instagram post for details on how to enter.
*
Support the Swim Chats podcast ($5 per month) via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Swim Chats on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Contact me via [email protected]
Hit 'Follow' so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for listening! :-)

Seti Afoa is the Director of Samoa Events, a swim business that offers tours, events, and retreats in Moananui (the Pacific Ocean).
Seti was born in Samoa, in a coastal village on the island of Upolu. As was common for Samoan kids of his generation, swimming out of his depth was not encouraged. His family moved to South Auckland when he was about 13 and as an adult he began visiting swimming pools with his wife. He joined a pool squad, then ventured into the open water in Kohimarama. Gradually Seti’s distances and confidence increased until he swam the Rangitoto Double (about 10km) and in 2012 he completed a swim now known as ‘Seti’s Triangle’ – a 14km swim between Kohimarama Beach, Rangitoto Wharf and Browns Island. 
In 2012 Seti also began running tours for people who wanted to swim in Samoa. The Samoa Swim Series was born, as well as cycling and running events. He began helping ultramarathon swimmers achieve their own epic swims, including across the Apolima Strait (22.3km). These days he also organises swim tours in French Polynesia, the Cook Islands, Tonga, and runs the Rotoroa Swim Island Retreat in Auckland. 
Seti says he is not a fast swimmer, describing himself as the ‘mayor of the slow lane’, but he’s an inspiration. We talk about his swim journey, what it’s like running a swim business, and also how swimmers can overcome their fear of the deep.
Visit Seti’s Samoa Events website
*
Jono Ridler swam down the east coast of the North Island (1600km over 90 days) to raise awareness of destructive sea bottom trawling in NZ – find out more at⁠ ⁠swim4theocean.com⁠⁠.
*
Support the Swim Chats podcast ($5 per month) via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Swim Chats on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Contact me via [email protected]
Hit 'Follow' so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for listening! :-)

This episode was published on March 26 to coincide with Epilepsy Awareness Day (#PurpleDay).
Kate Wareham is a Wellington pool and open water swimmer, the CEO of Volunteer Service Abroad (VSA), and last year she was diagnosed with epilepsy, a neurological condition that can cause recurring, unprovoked seizures.
Kate experienced her first seizure in 2025 while in Italy on holiday with her family, a day or two after completing a lake swim event. Since her diagnosis she has been learning to navigate life as a swimmer with epilepsy, a condition that affects about 1% of the world’s population.
In this episode Kate shares her experience of having a seizure while overseas, the life changes that have come with her diagnosis, how others have supported her at the pool and in the sea, and how she manages swimming with epilepsy.
Visit ⁠Epilepsy NZ⁠ to learn more.
Health and safety notes: Every swimmer is different and every person with epilepsy is different, so talk to your medical health professional for advice on exercising safely after a diagnosis. If you have epilepsy, don’t swim alone and tell someone (e.g. pool lifeguards) that you have epilepsy. If a swimmer experiences a seizure, get them out of the water and cushion their head, but don’t attempt to restrain them.
*
Jono Ridler is swimming down the east coast of the North Island (1600km over 90 days) to end bottom trawling in NZ – find out more at ⁠swim4theocean.com⁠ and sign the petition.
*
Support the Swim Chats podcast ($5 per month) via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Swim Chats on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Contact me via [email protected]
Hit 'Follow' so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for listening! :-)

Dr Abi Lafbery has a PhD in outdoor swimming from Lancaster University in the UK. Her thesis focussed on the health, thoughts, experiences and behaviours of wild/open water swimmers, the health of the water they swim in, and swimmers’ impacts on waterways. For almost five years she was researching and writing about swimming, flora and fauna, pollution, and climate.

In this episode we talk about Abi’s own swimming in Cornwall, the Lake District, and on the wild, post-industrial coast of North West England; what she discovered from her research and interviews with outdoor swimmers; the ‘immersive knowledge’ (Abi coined this term!) that we develop from getting into open water and observing what is around us; issues, rights, and decision-making around access to waterways and water quality; how swimming can be environmental, comforting, liberating, or even a ‘wild’ act that transcends societal boundaries; and our connections to water, other people, and ourselves.

Read Abi’s articles:
​In hot water: swimming and climate change (Outdoor Swimmer magazine, January 2026 – paywalled) 
​Outdoor swimming is becoming a sanctuary for female swimmers in the UK (The Conversation, December 2025)

In this episode I mention Jono Ridler, who is swimming down the east coast of the North Island (1600km over 90 days) to end bottom trawling in NZ – find out more at swim4theocean.com and sign the petition.

Abi also mentions ‘sea gooseberries’ and I wondered if they were the same as salps – apparently they are similar but not identical! Sea gooseberries are ctenophores (comb jellies), while salps are barrel-shaped tunicates that swim by pumping water. Both are harmless, non-stinging, and jelly-like.

*
Support the Swim Chats podcast ($5 per month) via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Swim Chats on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Contact me via [email protected]
Hit 'Follow' so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for listening! :-)