The Canine Paradigm

In Episode 373 of The Canine Paradigm, Glenn Cooke and Pat Stuart sit down with David McKelson, founder of Pro Dog Training.

David has one of the more unusual backgrounds in Australian dog training. Before moving into dogs, he spent 17 years working in zoos. Much of that time was centred around elephant handling and training.

He also worked with marine mammals and assisted with the training of many other species. Those included gorillas, giraffes and maned wolves.

That experience gave David a very different perspective on training, animal welfare, staff development and risk management.

From Elephants to Dog Training

David’s career with animals began in a small wildlife park before he eventually secured a position at a major zoo.

Early in his career, he worked across several departments. He eventually moved into elephant handling, where he remained for many years.

Working with elephants carried serious consequences. David explains that when things go wrong with an elephant, the result may not simply be an injury.

That reality shaped the way his team approached training.

Clear systems mattered. Preparation mattered. Staff development mattered. David also became increasingly focused on creating training processes that reduced unnecessary errors.

Over time, he travelled internationally and worked alongside experienced elephant trainers in Europe, the United Kingdom, the United States and Asia.

Animal Welfare, Suppression and Enrichment

One of the strongest parts of the episode explores the relationship between training and animal welfare.

David discusses elephants that had experienced heavily suppressive handling earlier in life. Some became extremely difficult and potentially dangerous.

One female elephant provides a particularly striking example.

She rarely vocalised and displayed repetitive behaviour. She also struggled to settle and sleep normally.

After she was introduced to another female elephant, her behaviour changed dramatically. She began vocalising and later started lying down to sleep.

The discussion highlights the importance of social needs, enrichment and appropriate relationships.

It also raises a larger question.

Are animal management decisions always being made because they improve welfare, or are some decisions influenced by how things appear to the public?

Training Versus Public Perception

David explains how elephant management within zoos began changing.

There was increasing pressure to move away from free-contact programs and towards protected-contact systems.

Safety was part of that discussion. Public perception was another.

David describes the difficulty of balancing staff safety, animal welfare and the opportunities created through training.

The group also discusses how removing training opportunities can sometimes create another problem.

Animals still require stimulation.

They need opportunities to move, solve problems, interact and engage with their environment.

David makes the point that training itself can be an important form of enrichment.

That same principle carries directly into dogs.

What This Means for Dogs

Glenn, Pat and David draw several comparisons between zoo animals and domestic dogs.

Simply providing more space does not automatically create better welfare.

An animal can have space and still lack meaningful activity.

Dogs in boarding or daycare environments may also struggle when they spend too much time without appropriate interaction or stimulation.

The conversation examines the importance of enrichment, training and experienced staff.

Good animal care requires people who can observe behaviour and recognise when something is beginning to change.

That can be particularly important in daycare environments, where group dynamics can shift quickly.

Building Pro Dog Training

After leaving the zoo industry, David began moving into professional dog training.

He completed the NDTF Certificate III and continued developing his practical dog training experience.

David later established Pro Dog Training.

The business developed from dog training and daycare into a much larger professional operation.

Training eventually became approximately 70 per cent of the business.

At the time of this conversation, the West Footscray operation was delivering around 80 private lessons each week, along with approximately 40 to 50 classes.

David explains that one of the areas he is most proud of is client retention.

Many clients who begin with puppy training continue progressing through higher levels of the Pro Dog system.

Leadership and Developing Trainers

David’s zoo career also shaped the way he approaches staff development.

He had already spent years managing teams before entering the dog training industry.

That included dealing with strong personalities, workplace culture and the challenges that come with highly specialised animal professionals.

David explains that technical skill is only one part of building a good organisation.

Communication matters.

Leadership matters.

Culture matters.

Those principles later became central to the way Pro Dog developed.

Creating Safer Dog Daycare Systems

Pro Dog also takes a structured approach to daycare.

Dogs generally attend on the same day each week rather than entering the system casually.

This allows the team to develop more stable groups.

David believes this creates a safer environment and allows staff to understand the individual dogs more thoroughly.

The group also discusses one of the biggest mistakes new daycare operations can make.

Growing too quickly can create significant risk.

Adding large numbers of unfamiliar dogs into an inexperienced system can quickly overwhelm staff and destabilise groups.

Good daycare requires patience, observation and competent supervision.

Systems, Franchising and Business Growth

The discussion then moves into franchising and business systems.

David explains that Pro Dog spent considerable time developing its operating procedures before offering franchise opportunities.

The business created extensive systems, manuals and processes.

However, David does not believe documentation replaces good leadership.

Franchise operators still need support, communication and access to experienced people.

He also explains that Pro Dog is not pursuing growth at any cost.

In fact, David says they often try to talk potential franchise applicants out of proceeding.

The objective is to find people who understand the workload and genuinely want to operate the system properly.

Dr Stuart Hilliard

The episode finishes with a discussion about Dr Stuart Hilliard and his upcoming Australian seminars.

David explains Stuart’s background in working dogs, behavioural science and military dog programs.

The seminars will explore topics including Pavlovian conditioning, instrumental conditioning, reward, sign tracking, goal tracking and ethology.

The discussion also touches on Stuart’s long history in working dogs and his contribution to the development of modern training knowledge.

For serious dog trainers, David believes the opportunity to learn from someone with Stuart’s depth of experience is significant.

A Conversation About More Than Dogs

Episode 373 covers much more than David McKelson’s journey into dog training.

It explores animal welfare, enrichment, risk, leadership, business systems and the consequences of removing meaningful activity from intelligent animals.

Most importantly, it asks a question that applies across many areas of animal training.

Are we making decisions because they genuinely improve the animal’s life, or because they are easier to explain and defend publicly?

That question runs throughout David’s story, from elephants and zoo management through to dogs, daycare and professional training.

Further Details

Learn more about David McKelson and Pro Dog Training, including their dog training programs, daycare services and professional education.

You can also follow Pro Dog Training through their social media channels for updates on workshops and future events.

Support The Canine Paradigm through Patreon for access to additional content and the podcast archive.

You can also follow The Canine Paradigm through your preferred podcast platform, YouTube and the Canine Paradigm Discussion Group.

If you enjoy the show, leaving a review, subscribing and sharing episodes helps new listeners discover the podcast.

Dog training motivation is not simply about how quickly a dog performs or how intensely they pursue a reward. Does your dog genuinely enjoy training, or have they simply learned to chase the food, ball or tug at the end of it? The difference matters. When the reward is the only valuable part, performance can become dependent on what the dog can see, while the training itself holds very little value.

In Episode 372 of The Canine Paradigm, Glenn Cooke and Pat Stuart explore dog training motivation, what actually matters to the individual dog, and how handlers can build training that dogs actively choose to participate in.

What Actually Matters to Your Dog?

Owners can easily assume they know what their dog values. Some dogs are strongly motivated by food, while others place greater value on play, movement, social interaction, environmental access, relief from pressure or the opportunity to perform the work itself.

Understanding dog training motivation requires us to observe the individual dog rather than decide what should motivate them. A reward is only reinforcing if it genuinely increases or strengthens the behaviour that preceded it.

Creating Dog Training Motivation That Lasts

Creating value in the game means allowing the handler, cues, equipment and opportunity to work to predict worthwhile outcomes. Sessions should be clear, rewarding and short enough to preserve the dog’s enthusiasm.

Visible lures should gradually disappear. Reward placement and timing should support the next repetition, while difficulty should increase without producing constant failure. The aim is a dog that engages before seeing the payment, persists when challenged and recovers comfortably from mistakes.

For sporting and working dogs, intensity alone is not enough. Strong motivation also includes clarity, connection and the ability to settle after the work finishes. Fair pressure and well-timed correction can exist within balanced training, but they cannot compensate for confusing criteria or a game the dog was never taught to value.

Key Takeaways

Motivation is individual and can change with the situation.

Reinforcement is defined by its effect on behaviour, not the handler’s intention.

A visible reward can support learning, but it should not become the dog’s only reason to perform.

Genuine engagement includes enthusiasm, clarity, resilience and connection with the handler.

The goal is to create a dog that chooses the training game, even before the payment appears.

Frequently Asked Questions

Does using food mean my dog only works for food?

No. Food can help establish a strong reinforcement history. The aim is to prevent the dog from becoming dependent on seeing the food before performing.

How can I tell whether my dog enjoys training?

Look for voluntary engagement, anticipation, resilience after mistakes and a willingness to participate when the reward is not visible.

Can corrections reduce a dog’s motivation?

Poorly timed, confusing or excessive corrections can create conflict. Fair and understandable communication should clarify the task without overwhelming the value already built into the activity.

Further Details

For practical training education and foundational health resources, visit our Dog Training and Canine Wellness page. It brings together Serious Dog Business and Canine Ceuticals for dog owners, trainers and handlers.

Support The Canine Paradigm and access exclusive content through our Patreon page. Every contribution helps us continue producing the podcast.

Explore our complete range of merchandise at our Teespring store.

You can also support the podcast by sharing episodes, recommending guests, leaving reviews, and spreading the word within the canine community.

For podcast listening options, visit our Subscribe to Podcast page and choose the platform that works best for you.

Subscribe to The Canine Paradigm on YouTube for video content, updates, and additional discussions.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast directory you use. Reviews help more dog owners, trainers, and canine professionals find the show.

Support Our Supporters

Narelle Cooke hosts Natural Health for People and Pets, available on major podcast platforms.

For premium human-grade canine supplements, visit Canine Ceuticals. Canine Ceuticals is also now available in the USA.

Jason Firmin of Einzweck Dog Quip is another proud supporter of the show.

For daycare and heartfelt training services, check out From the Heart Dog Training.

Our dear friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy, can be found at The Magic in Dogs.

Special Thanks

A huge thank you to all of our contributing artists. Please take a moment to support their work.

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

In Episode 371 of The Canine Paradigm, Glenn and Pat explore the idea that people are often reflected in their dogs. This topic came from conversations Pat had with his boot camp attendees and Skool subscribers, where the discussion turned to how much a trainer can observe about an owner simply by watching the dog.

Dogs do not live in isolation. They live inside our habits, our timing, our emotional patterns, our inconsistencies, and our expectations. As a result, the way a dog behaves can often reveal the structure, confusion, pressure, or clarity that exists in the human side of the relationship.

In this episode, Glenn and Pat discuss how trainers can read these patterns without turning it into judgement or blame. Sometimes the dog’s behaviour tells us the owner lacks clarity. Sometimes it shows too much emotion, poor timing, mixed rules, or a household that has no consistent system. However, it can also show dedication, effort, improvement, and a person trying hard to get better.

Further Details

This conversation is about learning to observe the whole picture. If we want to help the dog, we often need to help the person first. Better owners create better outcomes, and better coaching helps both ends of the lead.

Are you looking for trusted dog trainers, canine professionals, and supporters of The Canine Paradigm? Below are the people, businesses, and organisations that help support the show, contribute to the wider canine community, and keep the podcast moving forward.

Glenn Cooke oversees a wide range of canine-related services through Pet Resorts Australia.

Pat Stuart offers coaching, education, and dog training services through Serious Dog Business.

You can support The Canine Paradigm and access exclusive content through our Patreon page. Your support helps cover the ongoing costs of producing the show, and we are deeply grateful for the community that continues to grow around it.

Explore our complete range of merchandise at our Teespring store.

You can also support the podcast by sharing episodes, recommending guests, leaving reviews, and spreading the word within the canine community.

For podcast listening options, visit our Subscribe to Podcast page and choose the platform that works best for you.

Subscribe to The Canine Paradigm on YouTube for video content, updates, and additional discussions.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast directory you use. Reviews help more dog owners, trainers, and canine professionals find the show.

Support Our Supporters

Narelle Cooke hosts Natural Health for People and Pets, available on major podcast platforms.

For premium human-grade canine supplements, visit Canine Ceuticals. Canine Ceuticals is also now available in the USA.

Jason Firmin of Einzweck Dog Quip is another proud supporter of the show.

For daycare and heartfelt training services, check out From the Heart Dog Training.

Our dear friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy, can be found at The Magic in Dogs.

Special Thanks

A huge thank you to all of our contributing artists. Please take a moment to support their work.

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

In Episode 370 of The Canine Paradigm, Glenn and Pat begin with a quick recap on The Bear and the lessons carried over from the previous conversation. However, the main focus quickly moves into a topic that always seems to stir emotion in the dog training world: punishment.

Recently, parts of the training community have been poking holes in each other’s understanding of punishment, learning theory, and how these concepts apply in real dog training. Some of those conversations have been useful. They have encouraged trainers to think harder, define terms more clearly, and question whether they truly understand the concepts they discuss. In that sense, good critique can improve the industry.

At the same time, not all of it has been helpful. Some discussions have looked less like education and more like performance. When the goal shifts from clarity to clicks, the conversation can quickly become personal, hostile, and unproductive.

In this episode, Glenn and Pat try to stay out of the cheap shots while still spitballing their own thoughts on punishment, communication, consequence, and education. The aim is not to win an argument. Instead, it is to think more clearly about a difficult topic and encourage better conversations around training.

Further Details

Are you in search of top-tier dog trainers and steadfast supporters of the Canine Paradigm? Below is a comprehensive list of individuals and businesses that stand by our mission, contribute to our operational costs, and make significant contributions to the canine community.

Glenn Cooke oversees a wide range of canine-related services at Pet Resorts Australia.

Pat Stuart offers a full suite of coaching and dog training services through Serious dog business

We invite you to support our show and access exclusive content on our Patreon page. Your contributions directly support the show’s ongoing production, and we deeply appreciate the wonderful community that has formed around it. If you’re unsure how to contribute, feel free to reach out to us for assistance.

Explore our complete range of merchandise at our Teespring store.

You can also help by spreading the word within the canine community or suggesting special guests for future interviews.

For information on how to listen to our podcast, please visit this link.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel for video content and updates.

If you enjoyed the podcast, we would greatly appreciate your reviews on iTunes, Spotify, and other podcast directories.

Details on joining the International Association of Canine Professionals (IACP) can be found here. We highly recommend membership for anyone serious about advancing in the canine industry.

We also encourage you to check out Dogs Playing for Life, a transformational rescue process making a positive impact on dogs across the USA.

Support Our Supporters

Narelle Cooke hosts her own podcast, Natural Health for People and Pets, available on all major podcast platforms. Be sure to listen in.

For the finest human-grade supplements for your dogs, visit Canine Ceuticals. Now available in the USA. SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin of Einzweck Dog Quip is another proud SHOW SPONSOR.

The innovative motorcycle dog kennel can be found at Rowdy Hound. SHOW SPONSOR

For daycare and heartfelt training services, check out From the Heart Dog Training. SHOW SPONSOR

Our dear friend and frequent contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy, can be found at The magic in dogs

Special Thanks

A huge thanks to all our contributing artists. Please take a moment to support their amazing work:

Jane Stuart

Avery Keller

Zoie Neidy

In Episode 369 of The Canine Paradigm, Glenn and Pat catch up after a run of recent adventures, including PSA trials, Red Team work, and the arrival of a new dog. However, the main thread of this episode comes from two powerful episodes of The Bear, titled Fishes and Forks and the phrase, every second counts.

Glenn explains how he interpreted those episodes through a dog training lens. Fishes shows chaos, pressure, poor communication, emotional overload, and the damage that can happen when people are stuck reacting instead of leading. In contrast, Forks shows what can happen when someone is placed in the right environment, given structure, trusted with responsibility, and allowed to discover their own value.

From there, we connect those ideas back to dogs, handlers, and trainers. Some dogs live in constant noise, pressure, and confusion. Others begin to change when we give them clarity, standards, purpose, and a chance to succeed. The same applies to people learning the craft. Training is not just about commands. It is about environment, timing, leadership, confidence, and creating moments where the learner starts to believe they can do better.

This episode is part catch-up, part television breakdown, and part dog training reflection. If you loved The Bear, or if you care about how pressure and purpose shape behaviour, this one will make sense.

Further Details

Are you in search of top-tier dog trainers and steadfast supporters of the Canine Paradigm? Below is a comprehensive list of individuals and businesses that stand by our mission, contribute to our operational costs, and make significant contributions to the canine community.

Glenn Cooke oversees a wide range of canine-related services at Pet Resorts Australia.

Pat Stuart offers a full suite of coaching and dog training services through Serious dog business

We invite you to support our show and access exclusive content on our Patreon page. Your contributions directly support the show’s ongoing production, and we deeply appreciate the wonderful community that has formed around it. If you’re unsure how to contribute, feel free to reach out to us for assistance.

Explore our complete range of merchandise at our Teespring store.

You can also help by spreading the word within the canine community or suggesting special guests for future interviews.

For information on how to listen to our podcast, please visit this link.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel for video content and updates.

If you enjoyed the podcast, we would greatly appreciate your reviews on iTunes, Spotify, and other podcast directories.

Details on joining the International Association of Canine Professionals (IACP) can be found here. We highly recommend membership for anyone serious about advancing in the canine industry.

We also encourage you to check out Dogs Playing for Life, a transformational rescue process making a positive impact on dogs across the USA.

Support Our Supporters

Narelle Cooke hosts her own podcast, Natural Health for People and Pets, available on all major podcast platforms. Be sure to listen in.

For the finest human-grade supplements for your dogs, visit Canine Ceuticals. Now available in the USA. SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin of Einzweck Dog Quip is another proud SHOW SPONSOR.

The innovative motorcycle dog kennel can be found at Rowdy Hound. SHOW SPONSOR

For daycare and heartfelt training services, check out From the Heart Dog Training. SHOW SPONSOR

Our dear friend and frequent contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy, can be found at The magic in dogs

Special Thanks

A huge thanks to all our contributing artists. Please take a moment to support their amazing work:

Jane Stuart

Avery Keller

Zoie Neidy