The Holly Pivec Podcast

Is it a miracle, or just a really good trick? In this revealing interview, 55-year veteran magician Terry Holley pulls back the curtain on the "supernatural" claims of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).

While many believers are amazed by "words of knowledge" and "miraculous" powers, Terry reveals how professional mentalism, data mining, and theatrical illusions can replicate these exact experiences. We explore the historical deception of figures like William Branham and Paul Cain, and the danger of building theology on anecdotal stories that crumble under investigation. If you've ever questioned the "Glory Cloud" or how a prophet knew personal details about your life, this video provides the technical and biblical clarity you need.

Inside this investigation:

Mentalism 101: How performers "read minds" using natural techniques.
The Andre Kole Legacy: Why Jesus’ miracles were impossible to fake.
Nailing Jello to a Wall: The truth about levitation stories and "miracle" reports.
The "Hot Reading" Scandal: Why some modern prophets are just data mining.
Biblical Discernment: How to distinguish between theatrical magic and occult practices.

CHAPTERS
0:00 – Intro: Why interview a Christian magician?
1:25 – Terry Holley 55-year background in magic
4:45 – What is Mentalism? (Mind reading vs. tricks)
7:20 – Andre Kole and the investigation of Jesus’ miracles
17:15 – The difference between theatrical magic and the occult
19:10 – Why magicians use equipment (debunking demonic power)
21:05 – Magician vs. Illusionist: Why some churches prefer "illusionist"
23:30 – "Magic in the Bible": Hebrew and Greek word studies
26:50 – Investigating the Kansas City Prophets and Bob Jones
30:15 – Correspondence with John Piper and Wayne Grudem
38:15 – The "Flying Reindeer" argument: Why we need proof
43:50 – The Levitation Myth: Investigating supernatural claims
50:15 – Observations on Craig Keener’s Miracles book volumes
53:40 – Paul Cain and "Hot Reading" techniques
56:10 – The "Sick Cat" experiment: How easy it is to fool people
1:02:30 – Data mining and modern prophets (Shawn Bolz)

Help us spread the truth:
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Share this video with anyone currently involved in NAR circles to help them test what they are seeing against the truth.

#NAR #Prophecy #Mentalism #BethelRedding #BiblicalDiscernment #Apologetics #FaithHealing #Discernment

On March 6, 2026, Francis Chan released a public apology titled "Tremble at His Words, Be Careful with Your Own." In it, he addresses his associations with leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), including Mike Bickle and IHOPKC. But does this apology truly address the root of the problem, or does it sidestep the real issues and dangers?

In this special audio-only episode of the podcast, Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett (joining from the Florida Everglades!) break down Chan’s letter and the accompanying statement from his network elders.

We dive deep into:
The "Integrity" Gap: Was Mike Bickle a man of integrity who "fell," or was the foundation flawed from the start?
"Fooled Hundreds of Times": Analyzing Chan’s admission of a lack of discernment and what that means for his role as a globally influential leader.
The Elder’s Defense: Why claiming "refutation" of NAR accusations is factually incorrect and misleading to the church.
The Prophetic Movement: Why a focus on character scandals ignores the deeper crisis of fallible prophecy and theological error.
A Call to Action: Will Chan ever give us the biblical criteria for evaluating prophets?

Resources Mentioned:
-Francis Chan’s Letter: Tremble at His Words, Be Careful with Your Own (Crazy Love Ministries)
https://www.crazylove.org/articles/tremble-at-his-words-be-careful-with-your-own
-Holly’s Blog: hollypivec.com
-The Implosion of IHOPKC: https://www.hollypivec.com/blog/implosionofihopkc

-Books by Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett: Counterfeit Kingdom, God's Super-Apostles, and more.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=holly+pivec+and+doug+geivett&crid=2B4DQ2AUNRY85&sprefix=holly+pivec+and+doug+geivett%2Caps%2C216&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction & Background on Francis Chan
04:46 – Framing the Apology: "Those who no longer walk in integrity"
15:10 – The avoidance of addressing "false teaching" in the apology
21:47 – The stunning admission of being "fooled hundreds of times"
35:34 – Analyzing the Elders’ Statement
52:40 – Can a "legitimate" prophet be fallible?
1:10:00 – Unity vs. Truth: Final thoughts and closing wisdom

Stay Connected: If you found this analysis helpful, please Like and Subscribe to stay updated on our latest critiques and theological discussions.

#FrancisChan #NAR #MikeBickle #IHOPKC #Discernment #Theology #NewApostolicReformation #HoldFast #HollyPivec #DougGeivett

The ongoing collision with NAR has forced a moment of truth for the Assemblies of God, requiring a clear and final decision on whether it will protect its Pentecostal roots or succumb to apostolic infiltrators.* See a note of correction and clarification from Aaron Mapes below.*In this deep-dive interview, an AG pastor pulls back the curtain on how "Latter Rain" doctrines and modern NAR theology are covertly reshaping Pentecostal churches—and why the stakes for the AG have never been higher.From the controversial "offices" of modern-day apostles and prophets to the devastating impact of "fallible prophecy," Pastor Aaron Mapes and I explore why AG leaders must draw a line in the sand. We discuss the historical link between the 1940s Latter Rain movement and Jim Jones, the theological danger of the "always God’s will to heal" doctrine, and why Pastor Aaron has chosen not to use Bethel Music to protect his congregation.If you’ve ever wondered why your favorite worship song, or a "prophetic word" you've heard, feels like it’s leading to a different gospel, this conversation is for you. Key Topics Discussed:The historical condemnation of "Latter Rain" doctrines by the AG in 1949.Why Jim Jones is a sobering warning for modern charismatic movements.The "fallible prophecy" trap: Can a true prophet be wrong?Why Bethel’s theology is creating a "wrecking yard" of deconstructed faith.The practical reasons why Pastor Aaron has banned Bethel Music in his AG church (and other AG churches should do the same)How to identify "bad fruit" in a movement before it leads to spiritual and sexual abuse.Timestamps:0:00 – Introduction: NAR and the AG04:15 – The 1940s Latter Rain Movement & Jim Jones12:30 – Why the AG Issued New Position Papers on Apostles & Prophets18:45 – The Dangers of "Fallible Prophecy" (Deuteronomy 18)25:10 – Shipwrecked Faith: When "God’s Will to Heal" Fails33:20 – Why We Stopped Singing Bethel Music in Our Church41:15 – The "Cover-Up Culture" and Biblical Discernment50:40 – Truth Over Relationship: How to Talk to People in the AG About NAR58:20 – Final Thoughts: A Bigger Vision for the GospelResources Mentioned:Counterfeit Kingdom by Holly Pivec & Doug Geivett - https://a.co/d/0hncwff4God’s Super-Apostles by Doug Geivett and Holly Pivec- https://a.co/d/0aURrk3lA/G Pastors Concerned about NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1299878327294092/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBTAre you seeing NAR influence in your local Pentecostal or other type of church?#AssembliesOfGod #NAR #BethelChurch #ChristianDiscernment #NewApostolicReformation #TheologyMatters #Pentecostal #biblicaltruth A Correction and Note of Clarification from Aaron Mapes:"Thanks, Holly! It was a pleasure to join you for this podcast! I need to make a public correction. In the interview, I stated Jim Jones was an A/G (Assemblies of God) minister instead of Independent Assemblies of God International minister. Very similar in history, relationship and doctrine, but separate organizations with cooperative ties and relationships as well as a shared name and some shared roots, as was the case with many early pentecostal churches and movements as they were emerging. The IAOGI was born out of the Scandanavian Assemblies of God." See Aaron's full note, with additional information about Jim Jones, on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/aaron.mapes.9/posts/pfbid0248NMNZNxixLyzLVNCJfZAMLFFPfuYXsBKcAgiFDyhZ6adHMGP5Cd3VrZYYYNJrRtl

Is the New Apostolic Reformation covertly reshaping your church? Join me and 5th-generation Assemblies of God pastor Aaron Mapes for a deep dive into the "smuggling" of NAR doctrine into classical Pentecostalism.

While the boundaries between NAR and Pentecostalism have become increasingly blurred, the differences are critical for those concerned about the future of the Assemblies of God. In this episode, we expose how specific terminology—like the "five-fold ministry"—is being used as a gateway to introduce NAR "apostles" and "prophets" into local Assemblies of God churches. Pastor Aaron shares his personal journey of watching a thriving church of 300 dwindle to 80 after a NAR takeover and discusses the high-profile departures of flagship churches from the AG, like James River and Bethel Redding.

In this video, you will learn:

The vital distinctions between Pentecostalism, charismatic belief, and NAR.
Why "five-fold ministry" language is often a red flag for aberrant teaching.
The truth behind the "Show Me the Toes" (alleged) miracle and the danger of deceptive "revival" narratives.
How the Assemblies of God’s new 2025 position papers address these encroachments.

TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro: The Encroachment of NAR into the AG
2:15 - Aaron Mapes’ Story: A 5th-Generation Heritage
5:30 - Pentecostal vs. NAR: Clearing the Confusion
9:45 - The "Second Act of Grace" and Initial Physical Evidence
14:10 - How NAR Emerged Out of Independent Charismatic Churches
17:40 - The "Seven Mountain Mandate" vs. Traditional Eschatology
21:30 - Personal Fallout: When a NAR Takeover Splits a Church
28:15 - "Smuggling" Doctrine: The Five-Fold Ministry Language
35:50 - Case Study: James River Church and the "Toes" Controversy
42:10 - The 2025 AG Position Papers: Do They Go Far Enough?

RESOURCES MENTIONED
American Gospel: Spirit & Fire: https://www.americangospelfilm.com/spirit--fire-ag3.html

#NAR #AssembliesOfGod #Pentecostal #ChurchDiscernment #FiveFoldMinistry #Theology #JamesRiverChurch #BethelRedding #SpiritualAbuse #ChristianPodcast

Is modern missions work inadvertently hindering the gospel? In Part 2 of our deep dive, former Beyond missionaries Aaron and Chelsea—who were accused by the organization's leadership of being "unteachable"—share their firsthand experiences with the "Church Planting Movement" (CPM) strategy and the controversial "Insider Movements" that allow for religious syncretism.

We discuss how the pressure to "hear from God" and meet artificial deadlines, like the 2025 goal, is resulting in unqualified leadership and the compromise of sound Christian doctrine. If you’re a missionary, a church supporter, or interested in the future of global evangelism, this conversation is a must-watch.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Syncretism in Missions: Why some organizations allow "converts" to continue to worship in mosques or give gifts to idols
Lack of Transparency: Why missionaries are being instructed to hide syncretistic practices from their sending churches and financial supporters
The Problem with Speed: How fast-tracking missions efforts results in unqualified missionaries on the field
Subjective Leadings: How some missionary training models have integrated a version of Discovery Bible Studies that shift the focus from the objective meaning of the biblical text to subjective internal impressions

RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Nine Marks: https://www.9marks.org/ (Resources on biblical missions)

#Missions #ChurchPlanting #Theology #Christianity #Discernment #Beyond #YWAM #Evangelism #BibleStudy #Apologetics