The Human Risk Podcast

What if AI could help us understand people better, rather than simply replacing what humans do?

Episode summary
How can we use AI to become better at persuasion, communication and understanding human behaviour? My guest on this episode is Roger Dooley, author of The Persuasion Engine, a new book exploring what happens when behavioural science meets rapidly evolving technology.

Roger argues that tools once available only to large organisations — from behavioural science expertise to eye-tracking — are becoming accessible to almost anyone. We explore how AI can act as a personal “nudge unit”, helping us apply ideas from behavioural science, test communications and understand how different audiences might respond.We also discuss why simply asking an AI for an answer isn't enough, how to push LLMs beyond predictable responses, and why human judgement remains essential.

Roger introduces his idea of a “60-second audit” — using AI to identify how communications might be misunderstood or backfire before we send them.Along the way, we talk about Cialdini, cognitive biases, invisible calls-to-action, board papers, cultural disasters, AI collaborators, rally driving, long division and why the best analogy for AI might be a power tool rather than a replacement for human thinking.

Guest bio
Roger Dooley is an author, speaker and behavioural science expert who has spent years exploring a deceptively simple question: why do people do what they do?

His latest book, The Persuasion Engine (Wiley, 2026), looks at what happens when behavioural science meets AI — and how tools once available only to big companies with big budgets are now becoming accessible to almost anyone.Roger is also the author of Friction, named a Top 3 Management Book by PwC’s strategy+business, and Brainfluence, which has been published in 11 languages.

He brings an unusually practical perspective to the subject. Roger co-founded College Confidential  and today he combines that entrepreneurial experience with behavioural science in his writing, speaking and teaching.He is a lecturer at McCombs Business School, a Forbes contributor and host of the Brainfluence podcast — and his work focuses on helping organisations understand people better, remove unnecessary friction and communicate in ways that actually work.

AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — What if AI could be your behavioural scientist?
05:00 — Cialdini, behavioural science and why people don’t know why they decide
10:00 — Eye-tracking, attention and what people actually notice
15:00 — Making important information more visible
20:00 — Board reports, visual hierarchy and designing for human attention
25:00 — Better prompting and getting AI beyond obvious answers
30:00 — What happens to human expertise when AI knows the theory?
35:00 — Reactance, unintended consequences and communications that backfire
40:00 — Cultural context, reputation and Roger’s “60-second audit”
45:00 — Using AI to become better at understanding other audiences
50:00 — Roger’s lifelong interest in technology and what comes next
55:00 — Cognitive offloading, critical judgement and rally driving
57:00 — Why AI is best thought of as a power tool

Links to topics discussed
The Persuasion Engine — Roger’s latest book on how AI, behavioural science and neuromarketing tools are becoming accessible to organisations of all sizes.
Roger's previous appearance on this podcast talking about Friction.
RogerDooley.com — Roger’s website, including his books, articles, speaking and latest work.
Roger on LinkedIn — where Roger regularly shares ideas on behavioural science, persuasion, AI and marketing.
The Brainfluence Podcast — Roger’s podcast exploring behaviour, persuasion, neuroscience and business.
Roger’s episode on The Persuasion Engine — his own introduction to the ideas behind the book, including what he calls “Neuromarketing 2.0”.
Friction — Roger’s previous book, and the subject of his earlier appearance on The Human Risk Podcast.

What’s the last thing you learned simply because you wanted to know?

Episode summary
Why do we feel the need to justify what we learn? My guest on this episode is Annie Wagstaff, a musician and composer whose career has taken her around the world touring with Take That and into writing music for advertising. But alongside her work in music, Annie has developed another passion: learning about whatever happens to make her curious.That could be vine tomatoes, animals, colour, knots, the human body, or simply something she notices while walking through a supermarket.

Annie shares what she discovers on social media, not because the knowledge necessarily has an obvious purpose, but because she finds it interesting. And that raises a fascinating question: what happens to the natural curiosity we have as children as we become adults?In our conversation, we explore creativity and constraints, sonic branding, why children pick up stones while adults tell them to put them down, the pleasure of knowing a little about a lot, short attention spans and hyperfocus, authenticity in an age of AI, and why learning something without knowing what you’re going to do with it might be exactly the point.We also talk about Take That, vine tomatoes, staring at flowers, doomscrolling, notebooks, knots and sailing — the kind of eclectic mix that an episode about curiosity really ought to contain.

Guest bio
Annie Wagstaff is a London-based guitarist, musician and composer.She has worked as a session musician, toured internationally with Take That, and composes music for advertising and other commercial projects.

Earlier in her career, Annie also released her own music and built a large following online through her guitar playing.More recently, she has used her social channels to share the things she learns simply because they interest her — turning subjects ranging from science and animals to everyday observations into short, accessible explorations of curiosity.

AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — Why curiosity matters
05:00 — Touring the world with Take That
10:00 — Writing music for advertising
15:00 — Sonic branding and the power of sound
17:00 — From “Guitar Girl” to curiosity creator
22:00 — Vine tomatoes and unexpected rabbit holes
25:00 — Why children are naturally curious
34:00 — Flowers, distraction and noticing the world
38:00 — Becoming a “knowledge butterfly”
45:00 — Authenticity, social media and AI
50:00 — Why does knowledge need a purpose?
55:00 — Rediscovering curiosity — from five minutes to sailing

Links
Annie's Website: anniewagstaff.com including her books
TikTok: @annieplaysguitar on TikTok
LinkedIn: Annie Wagstaff on LinkedIn
Instagram: @annieplaysguitar on Instagram
YouTube: Annie Plays Guitar on YouTube

What happens when someone who spends his life thinking about risk, decision-making and human behaviour is confronted with an uncertainty he simply can’t control?

Episode summary
My guest is Paul Craven, a behavioural scientist, former investment professional, magician and keynote speaker, and one of my favourite people to talk to. When we sat down to record this episode, I noticed that Paul’s voice sounded different.

His explanation — that he had recently been diagnosed with oral cancer — took our conversation in an unexpected and deeply personal direction.We explore what his experience has taught him about uncertainty, why he deliberately chose not to Google his diagnosis, and the difference between having information and having useful information.

From there, we explore luck and skill, decision and gratitude journals, relationships versus transactions, the dangers of binary thinking, and why sometimes the best thing you can do when you’re in a bad mood is go for a walk in the rain. It’s a conversation about behavioural science, but also about perspective, paying attention and what we discover about ourselves when life doesn’t go according to plan.

Key themes
Living with uncertainty and the psychological value of having a plan
Why more information isn’t always better information
AI, search engines and our desire for certainty
Nuance versus binary thinking
Luck, skill and decision journals
Gratitude and paying attention to what matters
Relationships versus transactions
Storytelling, lived experience and different ways of seeing the world
Chameleon Thinking and the value of changing perspective
Guest Profile - Paul Craven
Paul is a behavioural scientist, keynote speaker and former investment professional who brings together insights from psychology, behavioural science, finance and magic to explore how people really think and make decisions.

Links
Paul Craven — speaker profile and booking enquiries
Paul Craven’s website
Iain McGilchrist
Martin Shaw
Mark Vernon
Paul’s previous appearances on the Human Risk Podcast
Solo: Paul Craven on Magic, Money & The Mind

With Gerald Ashley: Gerald Ashley & Paul Craven on Statistics, Spreadsheets & Scam Artistsand Paul Craven & Gerald Ashley on Context, Consequences & Changeability

With Rory Sutherland: Rory Sutherland & Paul Craven on Alchemy & Magic and Paul Craven & Rory Sutherland on Magic & Alchemy

With Rory Sutherland & Gerald Ashley at Abbey Road

Timestamped summary
00:00 — Introduction

01:35 — Paul’s diagnosis and living with uncertainty
Paul reveals his cancer diagnosis and reflects on why not knowing can sometimes be harder than receiving difficult news.

07:00 — Medicine, empathy and different perspectives
What Paul’s experience of the NHS taught him about communication, multidisciplinary thinking and the importance of context.

10:00 — Appreciating life, stories and walking in the rain
From Iain McGilchrist and Martin Shaw to Rowan Williams’ wonderfully simple advice for dealing with a bad mood.

17:10 — Reframing, Chameleon Thinking and “All shall be well”
Why changing perspective can help us navigate difficult circumstances — including Paul’s own illness.

25:45 — Why Paul chose not to Google his cancer
The risks of searching without context, what AI adds to the problem, and why life rarely provides simple binary answers.

31:20 — Luck, skill and keeping journals
What investment management can teach us about hindsight, decision quality and the value of both decision and gratitude journals.

37:20 — Relationships, transactions and the limits of efficiency
Why trust and relationships matter, and what can be lost when we optimise purely for efficiency.

43:25 — Authenticity, AI and Chesterton’s Fence
The value of individuality in an AI-mediated world and why we should understand what we’re discarding before we replace it.

47:10 — Wisdom under every rock
Paul brings together the themes of reframing, curiosity and learning from different perspectives.

49:10 — An update on Paul
Christian shares encouraging news following Paul’s surgery and looks forward to welcoming him back to the show.

Why do we rate everything and why do we do so on a scale of one to five stars? What happens when systems designed to help us make better choices start influencing our behaviour in ways we don’t necessarily notice?

Episode Summary
My guest is Benji Wilson, a journalist, TV critic and author of Rate This Book. Benji’s day job involves rating other people’s work, but when his children pointed out that Rotten Tomatoes was also rating him, it prompted him to investigate the ratings culture that surrounds us. In our conversation, we explore where ratings came from, why the five-star system became dominant and the psychology that makes us pay attention to the opinions of people we’ve never met.

We discuss social proof and the wisdom of crowds, why we often use ratings to avoid making bad decisions rather than to identify the very best option, and what happens when reviews are fake, manipulated or simply unfair.

We also explore the consequences of moving from rating products and services to rating people, including Uber drivers, hospitality workers and doctors, and why a single negative review can have significant consequences.Benji also explains how ratings might have applications in places we wouldn’t necessarily expect, including workplace appraisals and even democracy, where alternative voting systems use ratings to allow people to express more nuanced preferences.

And, appropriately for someone who has written a book called Rate This Book, we discuss what it feels like when the ratings are turned back on you — including why an anonymous three-star review might actually be more useful than a perfect five-star score.

Guest Profile
Benji is a journalist, author and TV critic. His book, Rate This Book, explores how ratings and reviews came to dominate modern life, the psychology that makes them work and what happens when the systems designed to help us make choices begin shaping those choices themselves.

Links
Benji's website — more about Benji and his work.
Rate This Book — How Star Ratings Took Over the World, published by New Modern Arcade.
Rate This Book audiobook — read by Benji Wilson.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary

00:00 — Introduction: why we rate everything
01:45 — Benji’s life as a TV critic and discovering that Rotten Tomatoes was also rating him.
03:30 — Where ratings came from, from our instinct to rank things to the emergence of star ratings.
08:30 — The psychology of ratings: prospect theory, avoiding bad decisions and why we rely on other people’s opinions.
10:15 — Why five stars became the dominant rating system.
16:00 — Experts versus crowds, social proof and why thousands of reviews can feel so persuasive.
20:00 — Fake reviews, manipulated ratings and why critical thinking still matters.
25:00 — What happens when we move from rating products to rating people — and the real-world consequences of negative reviews.
29:30 — Reputation management, review blackmail and whether ratings platforms need greater regulation.
33:30 — Ratings and democracy: could STAR voting offer a less binary way of choosing politicians?38:30 — Workplace appraisals, reciprocal ratings and what happens when a numerical score overwhelms everything else.
43:00 — Uber and how our relationship with rating systems changes over time.
44:30 — What it feels like to have Rate This Book rated — including Benji’s mysterious three-star review.
47:30 — Why three stars may be our most natural — and least useful — rating.
52:30 — How writing the book changed Benji’s own behaviour and why trusted personal recommendations can beat aggregated reviews.
56:30 — Why companies really want our ratings and the commercial incentives behind endless requests for feedback.
01:01:00 — Amazon Vine, gamification and how rating systems can influence the people doing the rating.
01:02:30 — Where to find Benji and Rate This Book, plus the inevitable invitation to rate both the book and the podcast.

What parts of yourself have you learned to hide in order to be taken seriously? My guest on this episode is Mark Heywood, a friend of the show, returning guest and someone I've collaborated with on a number of projects.

Episode Summary & Guest Profile
Mark has spent more than twenty years working in crisis management and operational resilience, while simultaneously building a successful career as a bestselling novelist, screenwriter and, more recently, stand-up comedian.

On the morning we recorded this conversation, Mark published an article marking his fifty-first birthday. In it, he reflected on the pressure many of us feel to present only one version of ourselves professionally, arguing that his creative and corporate lives were never really separate.

As he puts it, they were 'not two jobs, but one obsession wearing two different lanyards.' That simple idea becomes the starting point for a much wider discussion about the stories we tell ourselves, and the stories organisations tell themselves.

Along the way we explore:
Why "stay in your lane" may say more about other people's expectations than your own potential.
Why organisations often encourage people to bring their whole selves to work, while rewarding conformity.
What interviews, dress codes and organisational culture reveal about human behaviour.
Why stories often influence behaviour more effectively than rules, policies and frameworks.
What films can teach us about operational resilience, cybersecurity and crisis management.
Why the Titanic remains one of the most powerful lessons in organisational failure.
How imagination is a strategic capability rather than a soft skill.
Why thinking through "severe but plausible" scenarios requires organisations to become better storytellers.
Links
Mark's birthday article: "A Birthday Declaration from Someone Who Spent Over Twenty Years Pretending to Be Half of Himself" (LinkedIn)

Mark's Behind The Spine podcast

The Writing Salon

Behind The Spine podcast

Mark on LinkedIn

Mark's previous appearances on the show talking about The Creative Industries under COVID, and Human Risk in the Creative Industries

Films, Stories & People MentionedDie Hard  
Apollo 13 
The Martian 
The Odyssey (Christopher Nolan)
Don't Look Up
Snakes on a Plane 
Sharknado 
Noah's Ark 
RMS Titanic
Rachel Heyhoe Flint 
Jeremy King 

AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Why do we hide parts of ourselves to be taken seriously?

03:40 – Mark explains why he stopped separating his creative and corporate identities.

08:00 – Which hobbies and outside interests are considered professionally acceptable—and why?

10:30 – Job interviews, authenticity and bringing your whole self to work.

16:00 – Jeremy King on why behaviour matters more than dress codes.

19:00 – Rachel Heyhoe Flint, the MCC and what institutional rules reveal about culture.

23:00 – Why stories influence behaviour more effectively than rules.

24:00 – The Trojan Horse and using films to teach cybersecurity and resilience.

29:00 – The Titanic as a lesson in organisational resilience rather than maritime history.

32:00 – Conduct versus outcomes: why testing matters more than compliance.

36:00 – Using stories and popular culture to make risk real.

38:00 – Noah's Ark, history and the enduring power of storytelling.

40:30 – CrowdStrike, PPE and why organisations keep repeating the same mistakes.

46:00 – Stories aren't predictions—they're a way of exploring possibility.

49:00 – A ransomware exercise and the danger of relying on fixed policies.

52:00 – Returning to the Titanic: preparing for the inquiry before the crisis.

55:00 – Thinking like an attacker and challenging assumptions about cyber risk.

58:00 – Taylor Swift, insurance and why seemingly ordinary data can become highly sensitive.

1:02:00 – The idea of "risk inflation" and why yesterday's rules aren't enough.

1:10:00 – Why memorable stories change behaviour more effectively than realistic scenarios.

1:15:00 – Reverse stress testing and imagining what could really break an organisation.

1:20:00 – RAG ratings, reporting and the danger of looking resilient instead of being resilient.

1:23:00 – Final reflections on creativity, identity and why being more than one thing is a strength.