The Human Risk Podcast

What happens when two people who spend their careers thinking about human behaviour meet in a London pub and start complaining about conferences? Apparently, they decide to organise one.

Episode Summary
In this episode I'm joined by David Grosse, founder of behavioural risk advisory firm Behavor, to talk about The Unconvention, an event we're creating together that aims to rethink how conversations about risk, culture and human behaviour actually happen. But this isn't just an episode about an event.

David and I explore why organisations continue to treat behavioural risk as a niche topic, despite human decision-making sitting at the heart of almost every organisational failure. We discuss why so many conferences on culture and conduct feel formulaic, why measuring culture through board packs can miss the point entirely, and why stories often reveal far more than statistics ever can.

Along the way we touch on Silicon Valley Bank, Plato's Cave, behavioural science, organisational culture, productive discomfort, and why the best events might leave you with fewer certainties than when you arrived.

If you're curious about The Unconvention, or simply interested in why we think there has to be a better way to have these conversations, I hope you'll enjoy listening.

Links
David on LinkedIn 
David's company Behavor 
The Unconvention Website and ticketing site.
AI-Generated Timestamped summary
00:00 – Christian introduces the episode and explains how a conversation in a London pub led to the creation of The Unconvention.

02:20 – David shares his journey from chartered accountant and banker to behavioural risk specialist, and explains why human behaviour became the focus of his work.

05:30 – Why behavioural risk still isn't taken as seriously as other forms of risk, despite sitting behind so many organisational failures.

11:30 – Christian and David discuss what's wrong with many industry conferences, from scripted panels to sponsor-led agendas, and why they rarely change anyone's thinking.

18:00 – The conversation turns to culture, governance and why dashboards and board packs can never fully capture human behaviour.

24:30 – Stories, rather than statistics alone, often provide the richest insights into how organisations really work.

29:00 – The origins of The Unconvention and the principles behind creating an event that deliberately breaks with conference convention

35:30 – Why attendees are being invited to help shape the event, and how behavioural thinking has influenced everything from the format to the ticketing model.

42:00 – Christian and David discuss what they hope participants will take away: curiosity, productive discomfort and conversations that continue long after the event ends.

48:45 – Final details on The Unconvention, where to find David, and the unexpectedly simple story behind the name "Behavor".

Why is it so hard to stop people playing vides, music or phone calls out loud on public transport — and what does that tell us about changing human behaviour?

Show Summary
This episode of The Human Risk Podcast is a little different. It is a cross-cast from The Freewheeling Podcast, hosted by Thomas Ableman, in which I join Thomas to tackle a problem raised by the show's most important listener: his mum.

The issue? People using phones, videos, music and speaker calls out loud on trains and buses. What begins as a seemingly small transport etiquette problem quickly becomes a much bigger conversation about social norms, antisocial behaviour, customer experience, incentives, enforcement and the limits of signage. In our discussion, we explore why simply telling people to stop may not work, how reactance can make things worse, and why transport operators need to think more creatively about behaviour change.

Along the way, we consider quiet carriages, “electronic entertainment carriages”, cheap headphones, better-targeted messaging, staff intervention, social media campaigns and the wider question of whether public transport operators are responsible for the behaviour of the humans they carry.

The Freewheeling Podcast
The Freewheeling Podcast  is a show for transport change-makers. It explores how we can move forwards faster, bringing listeners fresh voices, new ideas and unconventional thinking.
While it has a strong focus on transport and mobility, the show also ranges into entrepreneurship, politics, public policy, cities and how systems can be designed to work better for the people who use them.

Links
The Freewheeling Podcast - https://www.freewheeling.info/the-freewheeling-podcast
Thomas on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasableman/

What if the best way to improve cybersecurity — or any other form of human risk — wasn't another policy, training course, or piece of technology, but a board game?  That's the kind of question my guest, Jill Wick, loves asking.

Episode Summary 
Jill is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, podcaster, and author. Her work sits at the intersection of psychology, marketing, behavioural science, and cybersecurity, and she is passionate about helping organisations understand that security is fundamentally a human challenge, not simply a technical one. 

Drawing on her experience in fraud prevention and her academic background in business psychology, Jill explains why traditional approaches to awareness often fail, why experimentation matters, and how a simple Snakes and Ladders-inspired game can create meaningful conversations about risk and decision-making.

The discussion ranges far beyond cybersecurity. We explore creativity, curiosity, communication, organisational culture, social media, learning, and the challenge of measuring success when the outcome you're seeking is something that doesn't happen.

Key Topics
In this episode, we discuss:
Why cybersecurity is ultimately a human problem rather than a technology problem
The psychology behind phishing, scams, and social engineering
Why more policies and more training often fail to change behaviour
How unclear policies can create confusion instead of compliance
The role of curiosity, creativity, and experimentation in risk management
How games can create psychologically safe environments for learning
The importance of conversation and peer learning in awareness programmes
What compliance, safety, conduct, and operational risk professionals can learn from cybersecurity awareness
Why awareness professionals should think more like marketers
The value of experimentation, iteration, and A/B testing
How social media can help build communities around important ideas
Why measuring engagement may be just as important as measuring failures
Guest Biography
Jill Wick is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, author, and podcast host who specialises in the human side of cybersecurity. Drawing on a background in fraud prevention and behavioural science, she helps organisations build stronger security cultures through creative, engaging approaches that go beyond traditional training and compliance. Known for her innovative use of games, psychology, and marketing techniques, Jill is a passionate advocate for making cybersecurity awareness more human, effective, and enjoyable

Links
Jill's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-wick/
Jill's website - https://www.jillwick.com/
Cyber & Psych, Jill's podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5uteiqHvCTGCVtCsKCzGJ6?si=322ef51fd6a3423c&nd=1&dlsi=c6d8309550784df9
Security-Awareness-Tools, Jill's book - https://www.isbn.de/buch/9783658511111/security-awareness-tools

AI-Generated Timestamped Outline
00:00 – Introduction
02:15 – Jill's background: From fraud prevention and business psychology to cybersecurity awareness.
05:30 – Understanding why people fall for scams, phishing attacks, and social engineering.
06:00 – Why cybersecurity is fundamentally a human problem, not just a technical one.
08:00 – The limitations of rules, policies, and traditional awareness training.
12:00 – The origin of Jill's cybersecurity board game and why simplicity matters.
14:00 – How games create psychologically safe conversations and improve learning.
19:30 – The game as a conversation tool: building culture, peer learning, and engagement.
22:00 – Creativity, curiosity, and the courage to experiment with new approaches.
26:00 – What cybersecurity awareness can learn from marketing, advertising, and A/B testing.
35:30 – Why awareness and technology must work together rather than compete.
41:30 – New projects: workshops, events, games, and Jill's forthcoming book Security Awareness Tools.
44:00 – Lessons for compliance and risk professionals: attention is a limited resource.
51:00 – Measuring success: engagement, participation, reporting, and positive signals.

What can businesses learn from cults?
It might sound like an uncomfortable comparison: one involves strategy meetings, values statements and quarterly targets; the other manipulation, charismatic leaders and extreme behaviour. But perhaps the distinction isn't as clear as we'd like to think. Both create identities and shared beliefs. Both shape how people think and behave. And both can evolve gradually in ways that are hard to recognise from the inside.

Unhealthy cultures rarely appear overnight. Small compromises become normal, difficult questions become harder to ask, and behaviours that once felt uncomfortable slowly become accepted.

Episode Overview
On this episode, I'm joined by Tobias Sturesson, culture advisor and author of You Can Culture, whose understanding of organisational culture comes not from business school, but from a deeply personal experience growing up inside a religious community that gradually evolved into a cult.

Drawing on his own story — and his work helping organisations create healthier cultures — Tobias explains why good people can become part of unhealthy systems, why speaking up is often far harder than leaders realise, and why culture is shaped far less by mission statements than by the everyday behaviours people learn to accept.

We also explore:
How communities and organisations can slowly drift into unhealthy patterns
Why leaving damaging environments is often much harder than outsiders imagine
The role of sunk costs, identity and belonging in keeping people trapped
Why organisations often mistake symptoms for root causes
The difference between “tone from the top” and “example from the top”
Why humility may be one of the most underrated leadership traits
The dangers of leaders creating the appearance of listening without genuinely hearing people
Why culture initiatives often fail to create lasting behavioural change
How everyday leadership habits shape organisational culture
Why discomfort is often necessary for growth
Guest Profile - Tobias Sturesson
Tobias is a culture advisor, speaker and author focused on helping organisations build healthier cultures and develop more responsible leadership practices. His work combines personal experience with research and practical interventions designed to help organisations identify and address the root causes that undermine cultural health. He is the author of You Can Culture: Transformative Leadership Habits for a Thriving Workplace, Positive Impact and Lasting Success.

Links
Tobias on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiassturesson/
Heart Management - https://www.heartmanagement.org/
Tobias' Book: You Can Culture – https://youcanculture.com/

AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — Introduction: What can cults teach us about culture?
03:00 — Tobias's story of growing up inside a community that became a cult
08:30 — How unhealthy environments evolve gradually
11:00 — Why leaving can be harder than joining
13:00 — The importance of people who help without judging
16:00 — Turning personal experience into professional purpose
19:00 — Why organisations often misunderstand their own problems
23:00 — Humility as a leadership strength
26:00 — The tension between expertise and curiosity
29:00 — Why business systems often reward the wrong behaviours
33:00 — The importance of listening and asking better questions
38:00 — Why reflection matters in fast-moving environments
42:00 — Culture as everyday conversations and habits
45:00 — Leadership signals and behavioural norms
49:00 — Building healthier cultures through leadership habits
53:00 — Why changing culture is difficult but necessary
56:00 — Creating a movement for healthier leadership

What makes great service? It’s one of those things we instantly recognise when we experience it, but struggle to define. And while organisations spend huge amounts of time trying to design seamless customer experiences, the reality is that service doesn’t happen in strategy documents or training manuals. It happens in real time, between real people, in messy and unpredictable situations where eventually the playbook runs out.

Episode Overview
In this episode, Christian is joined by Will Tarrant, CEO of Freeman Group, who focus on helping organisations close the gap between what they promise customers and what actually gets delivered in reality.

Drawing on decades of experience across hospitality, aviation, healthcare and destinations, Will explains why compliance-based training can sometimes increase hidden risk, why empowerment without judgment can quickly become chaos, and why the real differentiator in service is rarely the process itself — it’s the human response when something unexpected happens.

Along the way, the conversation explores:
Why “making people feel a certain way” is the real job in hospitality
The hidden risks created by over-reliance on scripts and SOPs
Why organisations often confuse solving problems with compensating customers
The psychology of customer perception and expectation
How hotels, airports and even destinations manage emotional experiences
Why breakfast might be the best indicator of a hotel’s quality
The tension between automation and human interaction
Why good service recovery is about judgment, not generosity
As Will puts it: “Compliance-based training reduces visible risk, but it increases hidden risk.”

Although framed around hospitality and customer service, this episode is really about something much broader: how humans make decisions when the script no longer applies.

Guest Profile - Will Tarrant
Will Tarrant is the CEO of Freeman Group, a consultancy that helps organisations design and deliver service cultures that align operational reality with brand promise. The company works globally across hospitality, aviation, healthcare, retail and tourism destinations.

LinksWill on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willtarrant/
Freeman Group website - https://freemangroupsolutions.com/

AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — Introduction: Why service failures create risk
02:30 — Closing the gap between promise and reality
07:00 — Hospitality is about making people feel something
11:30 — The hidden risk of compliance-based training
13:00 — What happens when the playbook runs out
15:00 — Scripts, authenticity and service style
16:00 — Measuring service quality
19:00 — Perception is reality
20:00 — Why empowerment needs structure
22:00 — Seeing service everywhere
24:00 — The timeless mechanics of good service
26:00 — Automation versus human interaction
29:00 — “The customer is always your customer”
30:00 — Solving problems versus compensating customers
33:00 — Inheriting other people’s problems
36:00 — Hiring for judgment, not just experience
39:00 — The changing status of hospitality careers
43:00 — Humans as the source of unpredictability
47:00 — Why hotel breakfast matters
50:00 — Choice overload and decision fatigue
53:00 — Applying service thinking beyond hospitality
55:00 — The gap between marketing and operational reality