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The Human Risk Podcast

Human Risk
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  • Professor Yuval Feldman on Can The Public Be Trusted?
    Why do governments rely on coercion and punishment when voluntary cooperation often produces better, more sustainable outcomes?Episode SummaryOn this episode, I’m joined once again by Professor Yuval Feldman, who returns to explore the core question behind his latest book: Can The Public Be Trusted? Instead of asking how much we trust our governments, Yuval flips the script, asking how much governments trust us, and whether that trust is deserved. Together, we dive into the concept of voluntary compliance, where people follow rules not because they’re forced to, but because they believe in doing the right thing. We unpack the complexity of this idea through real-world examples, from tax compliance to environmental policy to COVID-19 interventions. Yuval explains why people who think they’re ethical can actually be the hardest to regulate, and how misplaced trust can lead to serious regulatory blind spots. We also explore the psychological tension between intrinsic motivation and external enforcement, and why regulators often default to command-and-control, even when trust might offer a better solution. As ever, Yuval makes nuanced, sophisticated ideas feel accessible and immediately relevant. You'll hear about the role of culture, the limits of nudging, why economists might (sometimes!) actually be right about human behaviour and how AI might help policymakers make better decisions. Guest BioProfessor Yuval Feldman is a legal scholar and behavioural scientist at Bar-Ilan University in Israel. A returning guest and the podcast’s very first interviewee, Yuval is internationally renowned for his work at the intersection of law, psychology, and behavioural economics. His new book, Can The Public Be Trusted? The Promise and Perils of Voluntary Compliance is available open-access via Cambridge University Press (link below).AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction: why this question of “can the public be trusted?” matters for regulation and risk[00:03:42] Yuval’s personal background: how he came into law + psychology and the origin of his VComp lab[00:09:15] Defining voluntary compliance: what it means, how it differs from coercion[00:14:52] Intrinsic motivation vs crowding out: when good intentions are undermined by heavy‑handed regulation[00:21:30] Designing regulatory systems for trust: frameworks and features that support voluntary compliance[00:27:47] Case study: Covid‑19 and public cooperation—what we learned about trust, compliance and enforcement[00:34:10] Tax compliance as a trust test: how citizens respond when they believe the system treats them fairly[00:39:58] Environmental regulation and the limits of voluntary strategies: when culture or technology create barriers[00:45:22] Cross‑cultural & technological dynamics: how digital reputation, culture and platforms impact compliance[00:50:05] The perils of voluntary compliance: when trust can be misplaced, manipulated or simply ineffective[00:55:30] Final reflections: what this means for risk professionals, policymakers and anyone designing systems of human behaviour[01:00:12] Closing: how to reframe regulation to see the public not as a risk but as a resource.LinksYuval's academic profile -  https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldmanHis profile on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuval-feldman-21942514/ His open-access book Can the Public Be Trusted? (Cambridge University Press) – https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/can-the-public-be-trusted/B3E11831E3051D4E928B9252B6767A4BYuval’s previous appearances on the show On The Law of Good People or ‘why we should write rules for good people not bad people’ (2019) - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-why/ On Trust & Voluntary Compliance (2022) - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-trust-compliance?
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  • Dr Michael Hallsworth on The Hypocrisy Trap
    We all intuitively know that hypocrisy is a bad thing. But what if it isn’t a flaw, but a feature? But maybe the real problem isn’t hypocrisy, it’s how we think about it.Episode SummaryOn this episode, I'm talking to Dr Michael Hallsworth, a leading behavioural scientist and the author of The Hypocrisy Trap. We explore a topic that’s instantly recognisable but not often properly understood. Hypocrisy is something we’re quick to spot in others, slow to acknowledge in ourselves, and often design around as if it were avoidable or inherently wrong. What Michael reveals — through personal stories, behavioural experiments, and a careful unpacking of what hypocrisy really means — is that our judgments of hypocrisy say more about us than about the people we’re criticising. In fact, hypocrisy isn’t just common; it’s structurally baked into how we navigate competing priorities, conflicting values and real-world trade-offs. And sometimes, paradoxically, a little hypocrisy might even be useful.That makes it incredibly relevant to human risk. In compliance, ethics, and organisational culture, we tend to assume people should act consistently with what they believe, and we often penalise them when they don’t. But as Michael explains, this assumption can lead us to build systems that are brittle, punitive or out of touch with how people actually behave. This conversation challenges that frame and offers a more human — and more effective — way of thinking about inconsistency, trust and moral judgment.Guest Biography - Michael HallsworthDr Michael Hallsworth is Chief Behavioural Scientist at the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT), where he applies behavioural science to policy, organisational design and real‑world behavioural change. He describes himself as someone “helping people apply behavioural science to real‑world problems” and is the author of The Hypocrisy Trap: How Changing What We Criticise Can Improve Our Lives.At BIT, Michael has led numerous projects spanning government and private sector domains, bridging rigorous academic research with operational behavioural insight. His work is characterised by practical translation of behavioural science and an upfront acknowledgement of human complexity — the grey zones rather than the simple binaries.His new book brings this lens to the topic of hypocrisy, exploring how our judgments of double standards shape behaviour, institutions and trust in counter‑intuitive ways.AI-Generated Timestamp Summary[00:00:00] Intro and framing of hypocrisy as a human behavioural risk[00:01:00] Why hypocrisy runs deeper than just “saying one thing and doing another”[00:02:00] Discussion of how organisations treat moral consistency — and the limitations of that approach[00:03:00] Michael’s background, BIT and the genesis of his book[00:04:00] Defining hypocrisy: the three‑part structure[00:06:00] The two‑fold meaning: false image vs double standards[00:07:00] Michael’s personal story with his daughter + the context of “PartyGate”[00:09:00] Historical roots: Freud’s view on civilisation and hypocrisy[00:11:00] Why hypocrisy is a social judgement rather than purely behavioural[00:13:00] When calling out hypocrisy becomes counterproductive in change efforts[00:15:00] Real‑world examples: politics, business, everyday life[00:17:00] The phenomenon of ‘do‑gooder derogation’ and why consistent people make us uneasy[00:20:00] Hypocrisy as a strategic accusation in social media and organisational life[00:22:00] The behavioural science of induced hypocrisy and what it tells us about change[00:25:00] Honest vs. relatable hypocrisy: shifting the narrative[00:28:00] Michael outlines three categories for navigating hypocrisy[00:30:00] His reflections on writing the book and the surprises he uncovered[00:34:00] Balancing moral integrity with public perception and stakeholder expectations[00:36:00] Hypocrisy in corporate ESG: the tension between expectation and action[00:39:00] Managing contradictions among stakeholders: the inevitable trade‑offs[00:41:00] Experiment results: private hypocrisy and moral judge[00:44:00] The paradox: why we prefer people who are ‘inconsistent but principled’ over ‘consistent and bland’[00:46:00] Authenticity vs inauthentic leadership — and the hypocrisy dimension[00:48:00] Is this a practical manual for “how to do hypocrisy well”?[00:51:00] Final reflections: hypocrisy isn’t always about morality—sometimes it’s about signalling, trust and change[00:54:00] Michael’s hope for what the book can achieve and closing thoughts[00:57:00] Wrap‑up, thanks and behavioural nudge for the listenerLinksMichael's website - https://www.michaelhallsworth.com/The Hypocrisy Trap  – https://www.thehypocrisytrap.com/Behavioural Insights Team - https://www.bi.team/Michael's IT profile – https://www.bi.team/people/michael-hallsworth/'Partygate' explainer - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59952395 
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  • James Geary on The Art of The Aphorism
    Can a single sentence change the way you see the world? My guest on this episode, James Geary thinks so.Episode SummaryOn this episode, I speak with writer and journalist James, whose lifelong fascination with aphorisms — the world’s shortest literary form — reveals why brevity really is the soul of wit. James explains what makes an aphorism work, shares the five laws that define them, and explores how these concise little sayings have guided human thought from ancient times to social media. We discuss:The difference between aphorisms and proverbsHow short phrases can serve as decision-making tools and emotional signpostsWhy humour and contradiction are central to wisdomHow modern culture, marketing, and even AI continue the aphoristic traditionJames’s book The World in a Phrase and why he chose to update it 20 years after originally publishing itI also ask him whether my friend James Victore's phrase 'what made you weird as a kid, makes you great today' is an aphorism (spoiler alert: it is!).Guest bioJames Geary is a writer, journalist, and Deputy Curator at Harvard’s Nieman Foundation for Journalism. He is the author of 'The World in a Phrase: A Brief History of the Aphorism' and 'Geary’s Guide to the World’s Great Aphorists'.Links to topics James' book The World in a Phrase: A Brief History of the Aphorism (Second Edition) — University of Chicago Press page. University of Chicago PressJames' official website (book + aphorism archive). jamesgeary.com+1Harvard Gazette profile piece (“Brief bursts of wisdom”). Harvard GazetteJames Geary — TED Talk “Metaphorically speaking.” TEDEarlier Human Risk podcast episode with James Victore (where he shares “the things that made you weird…”): The Human Risk PodcastAI-Generated Timestamp Summary[00:00:00] Opening, why short phrases stick; introducing James Geary and my confession about “aphorism” pronunciation and definition.[00:01:00] What aphorisms are; oldest literary form; Reader’s Digest spark at age eight. [00:03:00] First memorable line: “difference between a rut and a grave”; why compressing meaning captivated him. [00:05:00] The five laws: brief, personal, definitive, philosophical, with a twist; applying them to the Victore quote. [00:06:30] Truth vs. usefulness; contradictions (Johnson vs. Bierce) and situational wisdom. [00:08:45] Aphorisms as everyday philosophy; “signposts” and “violin in public” imagery. [00:10:45] Teenage collecting; writing aphorisms on the backs of rock posters. [00:12:45] Joy + darkness; why humour helps memory; “Why can angels fly? Because they take themselves lightly.” [00:16:30] Family sayings; “If you’re not living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space.” [00:17:45] Redundancy story; “treacherous ground” aphorism as psychological footing. [00:19:30] Secular scripture; Pascal’s tennis metaphor; timelessness across traditions. [00:23:00] Originality vs. recurrence; why the twist makes the familiar new. [00:25:15] Beyond greeting-card obviousness; Emerson’s “braver five minutes longer.” [00:27:45] Knowing when to persist vs. bail; relationship aphorism “don’t let someone show you twice.” [00:31:00] Short form ≠ short attention; links to deep, long thinking. [00:33:30] Craft vs. hot takes; how aphorisms provoke contemplation and dialogue. [00:37:00] Ukraine example; “We kneel before heroes, not invaders” and words+images. [00:41:00] Free speech, calm strength, and the form’s defiance of authoritarianism. [00:43:15] Why a history, not a favourites list; posters to book structure. [00:47:00] Rights reversion; why a new edition now; social media context; more aphorists. [00:49:15] Choosing figures: omitting Wilde; championing Stanisław Lec; “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.” [00:53:00] Aphorisms everywhere: t-shirts, bumper stickers, ads; “Lick the lid of life.” [00:56:30] Can AI write aphorisms? Yes — but beware “cognitive laziness.” [01:01:00] Prompts for humans vs. prompts for machines; why discomfort matters. [01:02:15] Book details; publisher; where to find it; closing thanks. [01:04:00] Outro: links, review ask, website, and final behavioural nudge on “phrases you live by.”
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  • Dr Nicholas Wright on How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes The Brain
    What can war teach us about how the human brain really works? And why is human decision-making a more significant factor than military strength in wars?Episode SummaryOn this episode, I'm exploring how the human brain truly manifests in conflict—and what that reveals about everyday decision-making. Dr Nicholas Wright, a neurologist-turned-neuroscientist who advises the Pentagon Joint Staff, joins me to discuss his new book Warhead: How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain. In our conversation, Nick explains why fear is functional, how “will to fight” can outweigh superior force, and why democracies remain capable of catastrophic decisions. He also explains how perception operates as a controlled hallucination anchored to reality rather than a simple sensory feed, and why that distinction matters for strategy, leadership, and risk. Moving from fruit flies to front lines, Nick shows how simple neural chemicals regulate aggression, how the brain’s grid cells create literal maps to navigate danger and opportunity, and how both biological and organisational models can mislead when mistaken for reality. The discussion ranges from 1940 France to Kyiv, from Stalingrad to Gaza, and from deception as a vice to deception as a civic virtue.Nick makes a compelling case for metacognition — the ability to think about one’s own thinking— as the conductor of the brain’s internal orchestra and argues that wisdom—not merely cleverness — must be deliberately designed into leaders and into the next generation of artificial intelligence.We end with practical insights: cultivating “better ignorance,” inviting real dissent in the spirit of Churchill, and creating deliberate spaces for reflection like (I'm delighted to report) long train journeys.Guest Biography Dr Nicholas Wright, MRCP, PhD, is a neuroscientist researching the intersections of the brain, technology, and security at University College London, Georgetown University, and the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington, DC. He also serves as an adviser to the Pentagon Joint Staff. Beyond academia, Wright leads projects connecting neuroscience, artificial intelligence, and strategy, and has advised the Pentagon Joint Staff for more than a decade.He consults on AI for SAP and edited Artificial Intelligence, China, Russia, and the Global Order (Air University Press, 2019).His latest book, Warhead: How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain, is published by St. Martin’s Press (US) and Pan Macmillan (UK).AI_Generated Time-stamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction [00:01:00] Nick Wright’s journey from neurologist to defense advisor, applying neuroscience to strategy and AI.[00:04:29] How evolution shaped the human brain for survival and combat — we’re “built to win or survive a fight.”[00:05:59] Fear as a vital yet double-edged emotion; anxiety as a side effect of peace.[00:08:26] Origins of the book Warhead and cultural perceptions of its title.[00:09:39] Why war remains relevant; critique of overconfidence in peace and Pinker’s “Better Angels” thesis.[00:12:01] Lessons from France’s WWII defeat — cognition and morale outweigh material strength.[00:14:41] Ukraine’s resistance as an example of will to fight; psychology as a decisive factor.[00:15:42] Creativity and emotion as essential tools in decision-making; the brain as an orchestra balancing logic and instinct.[00:18:10] What fruit flies reveal about aggression and shared neural circuitry with humans.[00:21:13] Structure of Warhead — using neuroscience to reinterpret history and warfare.[00:26:37] Mental models and how the brain simulates reality to guide choices.[00:30:37] Perception vs. reality — the brain generates, not records, the world we see.[00:35:31] The “uncanny valley” and prediction errors — why imperfect mimicry unsettles us.[00:36:17] Moral symmetry in conflict — both sides perceive their cause as just.[00:38:00] Deception and fog of war — manipulating human perception as a timeless weapon.[00:41:00] WWII story of René Carmille — lying as moral resistance.[00:43:59] Social media, attention, and the loss of reflection — the modern “disease of abundance.”[00:45:41] Wisdom versus cleverness — Churchill’s reflective habits and valuing dissent.[00:48:11] “Better ignorance” and intellectual humility as foundations of wise leadership.[00:51:26] Cognitive diversity, AI, and the need to embed wisdom—not just intelligence—into machines.[00:58:28] From WWII to China today — the enduring need for wisdom in navigating global conflict.LinksNick's website - https://www.intelligentbiology.co.uk/WarHead Nick's book - https://www.intelligentbiology.co.uk/booksNick on LinkedIn -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-d-wright-bba3a065/If you liked this episode, you might also like my discussion with Dr Mike Martin - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-mike-martin-on-war-politics/
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  • Dr Nikolay Kukushkin on Memory
    What if your body is learning things your mind doesn’t know? What if memory wasn't just something that our brain has?Episode Summary On this episode, I'm exploring a bold idea with neuroscientist Dr Nikolay Kukushkin: memory doesn’t just live in the brain. It might be a basic property of life itself. We unpack how scientists define memory (behavioural change over time) versus how the rest of us use the word, and why that distinction matters—from sea slugs to kidney cells. I ask the “muscle memory” question we all carry, and we separate the metaphor from the biology: your basal ganglia automate behaviours, but your muscle cells do literally adapt to patterned use.We go deep on “patterns.” Nikolay’s work shows that even non-neural cells can detect minute-scale timing differences—preferring spaced pulses over a single crammed dose. That has huge implications for learning, exercise, nutrition, and even medicine; it suggests timing might be as important as quantity. We also talk about sleep as essential “synaptic housekeeping,” why false memories are an adaptive feature (not a failure), and what it really means to “run out of memory” in our overstimulated world.Finally, we tilt at the big questions: how consciousness might have evolved, why Plato’s model of perception eerily echoes today’s top-down/bottom-up neuroscience, and what AI still lacks—learning patterns in time within an embodied world. If you’ve ever crammed for an exam, worried about forgetting your own name, or wondered what your cells are quietly learning from your daily routines, this one will rewire how you think about memory.Guest Biography — Dr Nikolay KukushkinDr Nikolay Kukushkin is a Clinical Associate Professor at NYU. His book One Hand Clapping: Unraveling the Mystery of the Human Mind  traces how consciousness emerged from the natural world; the original Russian edition won the Enlightener (Prosvetitel) Award and the Alexander Belyaev Medal.His recent research (Nature Communications, Nov 2024) showed that non-neural human cells display the classic “spacing effect,” suggesting memory-like temporal patterning beyond the brain.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary [00:00:00] Cold open: reframing memory as cellular, not just neural. [00:01:00] Scientists’ definition of memory vs everyday usage. [00:03:00] From behaviour change to cellular change; beyond “plugging a muscle into a brain.” [00:05:00] All cells have experiences; “pattern matters.” [00:06:00] Muscle memory: basal ganglia automation vs literal muscle adaptation. [00:07:00] Shared molecular machinery: “use it or lose it” in brain and muscle. [00:08:00] Nikolay’s path: from molecules to minds; bottom-up neuroscience. [00:09:00] Protein quality control: molecular barcodes and cellular “conversations.” [00:11:00] Why sea slugs: short path from molecules to behaviour. [00:13:00] Hypothesis leap: if single neurons learn from pulses, could kidney cells? [00:14:00] The experiment: four 3-min pulses vs one 12-min pulse (spacing wins). [00:16:00] What’s uniquely neural: synapses and specific connectivity; where salience arises. [00:19:00] Memory without awareness; non-neural systems can store patterns. [00:20:00] Applications: exercise, diet, medicine; timing as a lever. [00:23:00] The dark mirror: life as obsessive optimisation if we over-pattern. [00:24:00] Personal practice: being mindful of inputs, attention as filter. [00:26:00] Debunking “10% of the brain” and the sleep–memory link. [00:28:00] Sleep weakens synapses; deprivation leads to saturation and hallucinations. [00:30:00] The social-media “soup” analogy for saturated memory. [00:32:00] Names, identity and rehearsal; de-naming as degradation. [00:33:00] Reconsolidation: why false memories are a feature we need. [00:34:00] 9/11/Challenger studies: how memories drift with time. [00:36:00] Ebbinghaus and the spacing effect across species and systems. [00:39:00] Cramming vs spacing: initial strength and decay rates. [00:41:00] The forgetting curve and why “more” can decay slower in memory. [00:42:00] “My whole life is one big experiment on my brain.” [00:43:00] Practical “tip”: fix attention first; follow interest, not force. [00:45:00] Attention economy and selective inputs as memory hygiene. [00:48:00] From smoking to scrolling: a future of information hygiene. [00:50:00] One Hand Clapping: why it feels special to be you. [00:54:00] Plato’s “two fires”: ancient echoes of top-down/bottom-up perception. [00:58:00] Intuition as hidden associations; LLMs as an analogy. [01:00:00] AI: excitement, unease, and the risk of outsourcing humanness. [01:03:00] What AI lacks: learning patterns in time without a body. [01:05:00] Close and thanks. [01:06:00] Outro and calls to action.LinksNikolay's website - https://www.nikolaykukushkin.com/His NYC profile - https://liberalstudies.nyu.edu/about/faculty-listing/nikolay-kukushkin.htmlHis book 'One Hand Clapping' - https://www.nikolaykukushkin.com/press-1'Memory Takes Time': research into how wemory is not confined to a particular location or locations in the brain - https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-62731730467-1Herman Ebbinghaus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Ebbinghaus and The Ebbinghaus Illusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbinghaus_illusion
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About The Human Risk Podcast

People are often described as the largest asset in most organisations. They are also the biggest single cause of risk. This podcast explores the topic of 'human risk', or "the risk of people doing things they shouldn't or not doing things they should", and examines how behavioural science can help us mitigate it. It also looks at 'human reward', or "how to get the most out of people". When we manage human risk, we often stifle human reward. Equally, when we unleash human reward, we often inadvertently increase human risk.To pitch guests please email [email protected]
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