The Peel with Turner Novak

Alfred Wallfors is the Co-founder of Listen Labs, the AI customer research company.
Companies like Microsoft use Listen to run AI-powered customer interviews, and Alfred talks about how they first landed them as a customer at a pitch competition.
We talk why startups should pursue enterprise customers early on, why 85% of survey answers are random clicks, how AI is changing the $140B market research industry, leveraging VC’s for customer intros, how to stand out when recruiting as a startup, and hiring for obsession.

Thank you to Numeral, Flex, and Amplitude for supporting this episode
Numeral: The end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance https://www.numeral.com
Flex: Get premium banking and a net 60 day credit card at 0% APY https://home.flex.one/referral/bananacapital
Amplitude: AI analytics, all you have to do is ask https://www.amplitude.com

Timestamps:
(0:14) Listen: AI customer research tool
(7:30) Fraud is a big problem in customer research
(9:06) The $140B customer survey industry
(12:08) Why running customer surveys is so hard
(16:03) AGI will never replace humans
(18:25) Surveys vs interviews
(21:13) Importance of emotion in data collection
(22:54) Using AI interviews to get product feedback
(26:15) Building digital twins creates better data
(32:22) Outperforming generic AI tools
(34:17) Sweetgreen’s Max Protein Bowl
(36:09) Jevon’s Paradox in customer research
(40:37) Quantitative vs qualitative
(42:38) Landing Microsoft as an early customer
(44:50) Targeting enterprise customers from day 1
(48:05) Building a VC customer intro leaderboard
(51:53) Recruiting with billboard games
(57:20) Hiring for obsession
(1:02:07) Alfred’s favorite movies
(1:03:53) Listen’s custom agent harness
(1:06:24) Velocity Fellowship for Swedes moving to SF
(1:08:34) Growing up with entrepreneurial older brother
(1:09:46) No shoes in the office

Referenced
Try Listen: https://listenlabs.ai/
Careers at Listen: https://listenlabs.ai/careers
Sweetgreen protein bowls: https://listenlabs.ai/case-studies/sweetgreen
Toni Erdmann: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4048272/
Episode with Erik @ Modal: https://www.thespl.it/p/building-ai-native-infrastructure

Follow Alfred
Twitter: https://x.com/itsalfredw
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wahlforss

Follow Turner
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovak

Subscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

Tomasz Tunguz is the Founder and General Partner of Theory Ventures.

We talk about today’s “all out sprint” in AI, Anthropic’s strategy, the three layers of AI business models, how AI compares to prior technologies, where to invest in AI today, and what Theory looks for in new investments.

Thank you to Numeral, Flex, and Amplitude for supporting this episode

Numeral: The end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance https://www.numeral.com

Flex: Get premium banking and a net 60 day credit card at 0% APY https://home.flex.one/referral/bananacapital

Amplitude: AI analytics, all you have to do is ask https://www.amplitude.com

Timestamps:
(0:42) The “all out sprint” in AI today
(1:40) Why GPU prices are up 116% in six weeks
(6:34) AI infra end-state: “We’ll over build”
(9:12) Tokenmaxxing, and why AI needs to get more efficient
(15:48) AI models will resemble pharma more than software
(19:52) Why Anthropic still trades at a discount
(25:42) Anthropic’s strategy: commoditize the compliments
(30:29) Why OpenClaw is so strategic for OpenAI
(34:08) The three layers of AI business models
(38:18) Where to invest in AI today
(45:49) Who will survive SaaSpocalypse?
(52:15) Comparing AI’s impact to historical technology cycles
(57:34) How new technology historically impacts jobs
(1:05:58) Where AI is underrated today
(1:10:41) How people are actually buying AI products
(1:14:06) Why Theory’s investing in ads, inference, and email
(1:16:24) 2026 IPO pipeline, how VC has changed over 20 years
(1:20:56) What Theory looks for in new investments
(1:22:32) Starting Theory Ventures in 2022
(1:25:39) Running a monte carlo analysis to determine portfolio construction
(1:27:54) Tomasz personal AI projects

Referenced
Theory Ventures: https://theoryvc.com/
Tomasz Blog: https://tomtunguz.com/

Follow Tomasz
Twitter: https://x.com/ttunguz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasztunguz

Follow Turner
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovak

Subscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

Ali Partovi is the Co-founder and CEO of Neo.

Neo started in 2017 as a network for the top college students. Neo is a “people-first” investor, a thesis it developed missing out on early investments in PayPal and Google at three employees.

Neo has since invested in the Seed rounds of Cursor and Kalshi, and Ali shares everything he’s learned about spotting outlier talent, how to hire the best people, how computer science is the best business education, and why the best entrepreneurs start young.

Special thanks to Hadi Partovi, Fuzzy Khosrowshahi, Alan Shusterman, and Claire Shorall for their help brainstorming topics for Ali.

Thank you to Numeral, Flex, and Amplitude for supporting this episode

Numeral: The end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance https://www.numeral.com

Flex: Get premium banking and a net 60 day credit card at 0% APY https://home.flex.one/referral/bananacapital

Amplitude: AI analytics, all you have to do is ask https://www.amplitude.com

Timestamps:
(0:09) Neo’s two 10x funds
(2:19) Missing PayPal led to Neo
(9:32) Not investing in Google at 3 employees
(11:31) Backing Facebook despite the idea
(13:01) Starting Neo to help top college students
(17:21) How to identify outlier talent
(24:38) Neo’s coding test
(27:41) Bootstrapping the first cohort of Neo Scholars
(34:58) How Cognition President Russel Kaplan changed Neo forever
(39:21) Starting Neo after talking to Steph Curry
(46:42) Launching [Code.org](http://Code.org) to teach 20M kids to code
(59:38) Is coding still relevant in 2026?
(1:03:43) How to hire outlier talent
(1:07:25) Why you should aggressively apply for one job
(1:11:09) Neo Residency: $750k uncapped
(1:19:51) Growing up in Iran during the revolution
(1:26:03) Impact of the immigrant mentality
(1:29:15) Most entrepreneurial roots start very young
(1:39:18) Lessons investing in Cursor + Kalshi seed rounds
(1:50:27) Confession: a podcast about failure
(1:52:36) Fucking up a $50m deal by lying to Steve Jobs

Referenced
Neo: https://neo.com/
Neo Scholars Application: https://neo.com/scholars
Neo Residency: https://neo.com/residency
Code.org: https://code.org/
Lying to Steve Jobs: https://x.com/apartovi/status/1447251334814523392
Losing a deal with Yahoo: https://x.com/apartovi/status/1449856639331340289

Follow Ali
Twitter: https://x.com/apartovi
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/apartovi/

Follow Turner
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovak

Subscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

Jim Belosic is the Co-founder and CEO of SendCutSend, a sheet metal manufacturing business he bootstrapped to a $140 million revenue run rate in eight years.

We talk building a manufacturing business in the US, creative ways he financed the company early on, using speed and trust to compete with overseas competitors, lessons from restaurants, and why you can’t run a factory from a spreadsheet.

Thank you to Numeral, Flex, and Amplitude for supporting this episode

Numeral: The end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance https://www.numeral.com

Flex: Sign-up for Flex Elite with code TURNER, get $1,000 https://form.typeform.com/to/Rx9rTjFz

Amplitude: AI analytics, all you have to do is ask https://www.amplitude.com

Timestamps:
(0:16) Automating sheet metal manufacturing
(5:59) Zero to $140 million ARR in 8 years
(7:58) Acquiring a $750k laser with $0
(13:38) Automating factories is like baking cookies
(15:17) Being legible to capital
(17:31) Unlocking custom, low order manufacturing with software
(20:00) Building more factories instead of selling the software
(24:50) Run your company like a lemonade stand
(28:30) Raising an angel round in 2021 as a safety net
(33:21) SendCutSend’s unique bottoms-up GTM
(38:24) Fun coupons
(40:12) Building a moat with speed and trust
45:55) How US factories can beat China
(47:40) Gaslight product launches
(52:05) Lessons from non-manufacturing businesses
(55:19) You can’t run a factory from a spreadsheet
(58:10) Using data in manufacturing
(59:50) Lessons from Factorio
(1:03:17) Unlocking a negative cash conversion cycle
(1:06:14) You need to resist automating everything
(1:13:51) Surviving COVID with six weeks of cash
(1:15:47) Solving the US skilled labor shortage
(1:26:17) Teaching kids about manufacturing

Referenced
SendCutSend: https://sendcutsend.com/
Careers at SendCutSend: https://sendcutsend.com/careers
Sandy Kory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandykory
Horizon VC: https://www.horizon.vc/
Concrete Canoe Competitions: https://www.asce.org/communities/student-members/conferences/asce-concrete-canoe-competition

Follow Jim
Twitter: https://x.com/jimbelosic
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belosic

Follow Turner
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovak

Subscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

Alex Israel is the Co-founder and CEO of Metropolis.He unpacks the unique strategy they used as a tech startup to rollup parking lots and become the largest parking operator in the world.Thank you to Will Quist, Yoni Rechtman, Adam Bain, and Jamie Siminoff for their help brainstorming topics for the conversation.Thank you to Numeral, Flex, and Amplitude for supporting this episodeNumeral: The end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance https://www.numeral.comFlex: Sign-up for Flex Elite with code TURNER, get $1,000 https://form.typeform.com/to/Rx9rTjFzAmplitude: AI analytics, all you have to do is ask https://www.amplitude.comTimestamps:(1:10) Helping 50m Americans park(4:00) Building “Buy Now” for the physical world(9:02) Real-world checkout technology that works(16:07) Why parking never institutionalized as an asset class(18:34) Using tech to make parking assets more valuable(21:53) Parking lots as autonomous robotics hubs(29:07) Going to film school, working at MTV(30:55) Starting his first parking data company(33:47) Culture of pranking each other(36:27) A Fortune 500 CEO convinced him to start a 2nd parking company(42:55) Realizing they couldn’t sell to real estate operators(46:09) Acquiring a company 10x their size to jumpstart GTM(50:20) How to do a successful AI growth buyout(54:48) Revenue growth must be driven by technology(1:00:33) Why companies should do growth buyouts(1:03:55) Being legible to capital(1:09:16) You need creativity to take risks(1:13:30) AI is the first ever disruption to skilled labor(1:19:14) CEO challenges growing zero to 23,000 employees(1:24:31) Alex’ personal AI stackReferencedMetropolis: https://www.metropolis.io/Careers at Metropolis: https://www.metropolis.io/careersRoy Amara: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_AmaraFollow AlexTwitter: https://x.com/Alex__IsraelLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-israelFollow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/