207 episodes
- In this episode, Historian and author Marc Dunkelman to explain why the 19th-century fight over railroad power is the exact fight we're about to have over algorithms and AI. Drawing on his acclaimed book Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress — and How to Bring It Back (a Best Book of the Year in the Financial Times and The Economist), Marc unpacks the two competing tools America has always used against concentrated power — antitrust vs. regulation — and why our government's "endemic diffusion of authority" now means nobody can decide anything, from congestion pricing to clean-energy transmission lines to AI safety.
CHAPTERS
04:52 — When private projects come back to the public: Warp Speed, DARPA, CHIPS
08:55 — Two ways to fight concentrated power: break them up vs. regulate
10:52 — Railroads, island communities & the birth of regulation
12:29 — The railroad = algorithm parallel
20:33 — Why nothing gets built: the diffusion of authority
27:30 — "A voice without a veto" and the AI moment
32:53 — Where should government draw the line on new tech?
37:20 — Dunkelman the pragmatist: there is no simple answer
38:21 — Where math and AI can genuinely help public policy
40:46 — The lesson we keep overlooking
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email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com Can Math Save Journalism?: Julia Angwin on Proof, Power, and Amazon's Algorithm
02/07/2026 | 52 mins.In this conversation we chat with Julia Angwin — Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, founder of Proof News, and former Wall Street Journal and ProPublica reporter — to make the case that journalism should function more like mathematical proof than anecdote.
We cover how Angwin's team at The Markup used a decision-tree model to prove Amazon was favoring its own products in search results by an 8-to-1 margin — a finding the House Antitrust Committee later cited when referring Amazon to the DOJ for possible perjury. We dig into her "ingredients label" approach to reporting at Proof News (hypothesis, sample size, techniques, limitations), the difference between mathematical proof and the scientific method, and why she thinks control over algorithmic media is now the central battleground for authoritarian power. She also unpacks her new book on resisting authoritarianism, built from interviews with dissidents worldwide, including the "Swiss cheese" model of personal security and why perfectionism is dangerous in a crisis.
Chapters
09:50 Proof News: A New Era in Journalism
19:56 Data-Driven Investigations: A Case Study
30:02 The Future of Journalism and AI
32:53 The Evolution of Search Rankings
35:06 The Role of Algorithms in Information Access
36:41 Fighting Authoritarianism Through Journalism
44:52 Community Resistance Against Authoritarianism
48:33 The Dangers of Perfectionism in Resistance
51:26 Declaring a Position in Journalism
56:25 The Importance of Math in Modern Society
Julia Angwin's book, “On Courage” (https://amzn.to/448G8kY)
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email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.comThe Proof in the Code: How Lean Is Quietly Rewriting Trust in Math (w/ Kevin Hartnett)
24/06/2026 | 45 mins.In this episode, Autumn and Noah talk with Kevin Hartnett about why mathematicians are willing to spend years reducing an idea to a level of detail a machine can check, whether formal verification can catch an AI that's technically correct but fundamentally misaligned, the cold-start problem that kept earlier theorem-provers niche, and what it means for the future of mathematical trust once AI can generate proofs faster than any human community can read them.
Timeline:
00:00 Introduction to Lean and Its Significance
03:18 The Journey of Writing the Book
05:13 Human Element in Mathematical Formalization
06:57 Understanding Formal Proofs in Mathematics
11:21 The Origins of Lean and Its Purpose
13:03 Misalignment in Software Specifications
14:39 Building Mathematical Libraries in Lean
17:23 Ensuring Accuracy in Mathematical Foundations
22:00 Overcoming the Cold Start Problem in Lean Adoption
24:36 The Future of Mathematical Proofs
30:26 AI's Role in Mathematics
38:29 Expanding Beyond Mathematics
41:40 The Long-Term Impact of Lean
The Proof in the Code is out now from Quanta Books. (https://amzn.to/3SuNlJm)
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email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com- What happens when the evidence of injustice is buried in messy, redacted, or inaccessible data? Mathematician and data scientist Chad Topaz joins Breaking Math to discuss his book Unlocking Justice. Together, we explore policing, sentencing, public records, Rikers Island, algorithmic risk, and the limits of quantifying human lives. This is a conversation about math, power, transparency, and the small acts of hope that can change systems.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation
01:11 Chad's Journey from Mathematics to Social Justice
03:50 The Personal Nature of Chad's Book
04:40 Challenges in Data Collection and Access
08:03 The Impact of Data on Policing and Surveillance
09:51 Humorous Yet Tragic Data Collection Experiences
12:55 The Importance of Data Preparation and Cleaning
14:40 Navigating Imperfect Data and Its Consequences
17:48 The Balance Between Quantification and Human Stories
22:25 Incarceration and Public Health: The Rikers Island Case Study
31:36 Mathematics and Social Justice: Secrets of the Elite
39:03 Hope and Action: A Personal Journey in Data for Justice
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email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com - This conversation explores the profound impact of AI and automation on the future of work, economy, and society. Featuring Martin Ford, author of 'Rise of the Robots,' the discussion covers technological progress, economic implications, policy ideas like universal basic income, and the evolving nature of jobs in an AI-driven world.
Key Topics
Impact of AI on employment and economy
Potential of universal basic income as a solution
Differences between past technological revolutions and AI
The evolution from physical robots to AI software agents
Jobs most vulnerable to automation and AI
Chapters
04:14 The Impact of Technological Revolutions on Employment
10:40 The Shift from Physical to Intellectual Automation
12:16 The Debate: Replacement vs. Augmentation of Jobs
18:01 Economic Implications of Job Displacement
21:00 Exploring Solutions: Universal Basic Income and Beyond
24:08 The Awakening of Economists
25:12 Historical Perspectives on Automation
28:27 Navigating the Future Job Market
32:57 The Role of Skilled Trades in an AI World
38:13 The Alien Thought Experiment
42:17 The Future of AI and Its Implications
44:14 The Rise of Automation and Its Impact
45:14 AI as a Digital Workforce
45:38 The Shifting Landscape of Work
46:08 Questioning the Future of Automation and AI
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email: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
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About Breaking Math Podcast
Breaking Math is a deep-dive science, technology, engineering, AI, and mathematics podcast that explores the world through the lens of logic, patterns, and critical thinking. Hosted by Autumn Phaneuf, an expert in industrial engineering, operations research, and applied mathematics, and Noah Giansiracusa, a mathematician and leading voice in algorithmic literacy and technology ethics, the show is dedicated to uncovering the mathematical structures behind science, technology, and the systems shaping our future.What began as a conversation about math as a pure and elegant discipline has evolved into a platform for bold, interdisciplinary dialogue. Each episode of Breaking Math takes listeners on an intellectual journey—into the strange beauty of chaos theory, the ethical dilemmas of AI and algorithms, the hidden math of biology and evolution, or the physics governing black holes and the cosmos. Along the way, Autumn and Noah speak with working scientists, researchers, and thinkers across fields: computer scientists, physicists, chemists, engineers, economists, philosophers, and more.But this isn’t just a podcast about equations. It’s a show about how mathematics shapes the way we think, decide, build, and understand the world. Breaking Math pushes back against the idea that STEM belongs behind a paywall or an academic podium. It’s for the curious, the critical, and the creative—for anyone who believes that ideas should be rigorous, accessible, and infused with wonder.If you’ve ever wondered:What’s the math behind machine learning and modern algorithms?How do we quantify uncertainty in climate and economic models?Can intelligence or consciousness be meaningfully described in AI?Why does beauty matter in an equation?You’re in the right place.At its heart, Breaking Math is about building bridges—between disciplines, between experts and the public, and between abstract mathematics and the messy, magnificent reality we live in. With humor, clarity, and deep respect for complexity, Autumn and Noah invite you to rethink what math can be—and how it can help us shape a better future.Listen wherever you get your podcasts.Website: https://breakingmath.ioLinktree: https://linktr.ee/breakingmathmediaEmail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
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