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Churchfront Podcast — Erwin McManus Lead Pastor, Mosaic Church (Los Angeles) | Author, The Seven Frequencies of Communication
Guest background: Erwin McManus has led Mosaic in LA for 35 years, building a congregation averaging in its twenties across 40+ nationalities. He's also an author, speaker, and has been a longtime participant in the Global Leadership Summit at Willow Creek.
Key Topics
What holds church leaders back The most common internal limitation isn't skill or resources — it's the lack of felt permission. Pastors are often communal and loyal by nature, which also makes them dependent on someone saying "it's okay to go for it." The church culture tends to withhold permission rather than grant it. This is a big reason conferences are so magnetic — they're not primarily about information, they're about permission receiving. People go to be in a room where they feel free to dream, risk, and believe. Erwin said a large part of his life's work has been giving people permission: to dream big, to risk, to try low-percentage ideas, and to fail without that defining their worth.
Giving permission downward in the org chart Leaders often receive permission at a conference and then come back and tell their team what to do — which is not the same as giving permission. True permission-giving means creating space for people to grow, develop, dream, and execute in their own way. Key principle: hold tight to where you're going, hold loosely to how you get there. Someone can execute at a high level and still do it differently than you would — and that's okay.
"It's All About People" vs. "You Can't Take Everyone With You" (from Mind Shift)McManus intentionally places these as Chapter 1 and Chapter 3 as a juxtaposition. Most leaders lean hard toward one and neglect the other. His advice: read both, figure out which one resonates more, then go apply the other one. That tension is where relational elegance lives.
When people leave, they attack your character At Mosaic, after major style and culture shifts, the people who left rarely said "I don't like the music." They attacked Erwin's character because it made them the hero of their story. He found the exceptions refreshing — the people who were honest ("the church is too young," "too diverse," "too evangelistic") made it easy to respond. His approach: when you bring clarity as a leader, you're giving people the gift of choice. If they hate who you are now, they're going to really hate who you're becoming — so this is actually a good time to part ways. "If you're everything, you're nothing."
The white interior at Mosaic Hollywood During the 18-month pandemic shutdown, Aaron McManus pitched painting everything white — stage, speakers, walls. No precedent existed for it. The idea was: when people come back, we don't want them having a nostalgicexperience — we want them going forward. The white space became a blank canvas for projection and lighting in every direction. It's now been widely imitated. (They did the same thing at their current Pasadena theater space, which was the longtime home of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.)
The Seven Frequencies of Communication The seven frequencies are a framework for understanding how people communicate and how they're heard — not just outwardly but internally, since your inner voice shapes the health of your soul. The frequencies: Commander, Challenger, Healer, Motivator, Professor, Seer, Maven. This isn't a static identity — it's a dynamic range you can access. The goal is mastery over your frequencies, not just defaulting to your primary one.
Every frequency also has a shadow — the dark version of the same trait. Commander → Dictator. Seer → Perfectionist. Challenger → Manipulator. Motivator → Performer. We tend to access our shadows with zero effort and have to work to access the authentic frequency. That's true of all positive human characteristics: courage, forgiveness, integrity all require work. Their negative counterparts (fear, bitterness, dishonesty) require nothing.
Practical example: Erwin's wife Kim is a Commander. 42 years of "turn off the lights and lock the doors" instead of "I love you." He learned to translate that as I love you, keep me safe. His daughter Mariah is a Challenger — she's always trying to elevate him, but it reads as reprimand. Understanding the frequency means getting offended less.
Hire for character, not for frequency When Jake asked whether leaders need Commander or Challenger to run a department, Erwin's answer was simple: if the character is right, the frequency will work itself out. A high-Motivator leader who doesn't have Commander will still make people want to achieve for them — and the team will learn to push for clarity on execution. Environmental health matters more than frequency profile.
Commanders and competency Commanders have competency as a core value. If you move a Commander into a new role without giving them enough context, resources, and framing, they won't feel like they're being trusted — they'll feel like they're being set up to fail. The key: make sure they feel equipped, not just trusted. "He just wants to make sure he has enough swords."
Seers in leadership Many megachurch pastors are Commander-Seer combinations. The risk for Seers is confusing movement with momentum — pivoting sideways to get around an obstacle, while the team thinks the direction has changed entirely. The Seer knows they're still heading north; they forgot to communicate why they went east first. Solution from their team's side: instead of assuming the vision changed, ask "this feels like a direction change — is this a strategic move to get there faster? Help me communicate it well."
Churchfront "Captive Consultant" segment Erwin's advice for Churchfront: since they're committed to serving churches exclusively, look for where churches are growing fastest — new residential development, emerging demographics — and think about what a scalable package looks like for smaller churches. The message is too important not to be heard clearly, which makes sound and AV integration genuinely mission-critical work. He also noted that once a building is built, the acoustic future is largely set — making early architectural involvement from integrators essential.
Book/Resource mentioned: The Seven Frequencies of Communication — includes an assessment on their website.  Also mentioned: Mind Shift by Erwin McManus.

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How to Disciple Your Team When You're Always On Stage - Part 2
Episode Description
In part two of this worship pastor conversation, Matt and Sean Bennett tackle the practical realities of leading volunteers, building sustainable systems, and avoiding burnout. They discuss how to disciple a team of 30 people when you can only really pour into 5 or 6, why production should enhance worship without becoming the focus, and why planning doesn't limit the Holy Spirit - it actually creates space for him to move.
Sean also shares why he has no desire to return to vocational ministry anytime soon, the "make it better" trap that burns out worship pastors, and the one simple rule that will save your sanity: Sundays are for service, not evaluation.
In This Episode
Discipleship at scale - You can't disciple 30 people on your own, so here's how to train disciples to be disciplers and create a sustainable leadership structure
How production supports worship - Why the pendulum is swinging away from production-heavy worship, and how to let production enhance rather than distract
Planning and the Holy Spirit - Why "I just want to be led by the Spirit" is a cop-out, and how good planning actually creates space for spontaneity
The biggest pitfall - Why not keeping the main thing the main thing is the fastest way to burn out your team and lose sight of why you're actually there
Practical tips for sustainability - Why Sundays are for service not evaluation, how to build yearly rhythms that include rest, and when to do acoustic sets to reset expectations
Timestamps
00:00 - How to Disciple Your Team When You're Always On Stage
04:42 - How Production Supports Worship Without Becoming the Focus
09:53 - Systems and Planning: The Holy Spirit Shows Up on Monday Too
16:03 - The Biggest Pitfall: Not Keeping the Main Thing the Main Thing
19:10 - The "Make It Better" Trap and How to Avoid Burnout
23:23 - Practical Tips: Sundays Are for Service, Not Evaluation
Key Quotes
"You can't lead 30 people on your own. At some point you have to teach your leaders to be leaders and to lead other people."
"The Holy Spirit can show up on a Monday morning planning meeting just as much as he can show up on a Sunday during a service."
"Sundays are for service, not for evaluation. You can't change Sunday. The only thing you can do is look at it for next week."
"When we stand before God someday, he's not going to ask us how many perfect services we put on. He's going to ask us what our hearts were like."
Resources Mentioned
Planning Center
ProPresenter
Tom Jackson Productions
Carey Nieuwhof podcast episode (referenced)
Connect With Us
Visit churchfront.com for free church production training and resources
This is part 2 of 2. If you missed part 1, go back and watch that for insights on what to look for when taking a new worship pastor role and navigating the tension between excellence and authenticity.

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What I Wish I Knew Before Becoming a Worship Pastor - Part 1
Episode Description
Matt sits down with Sean Bennett, one of the newest members of the Churchfront team and a 16-year worship ministry veteran, to talk about what it's really like to lead worship and production teams. In part one of this two-part conversation, they discuss what to look for when stepping into a new worship pastor role, navigating the tension between excellence and authenticity, and how to lead a production team you can never actually be with.
Both Matt and Sean have led in large churches, small churches, and multi-site churches. They've both been the worship pastor who also had to somehow lead the tech team. This conversation pulls back the curtain on the real challenges worship pastors face and offers practical wisdom for anyone in church production or worship leadership.
In This Episode
What to look for when interviewing for a worship pastor role - Why you need to see people at their worst before taking the job, and the red flags Sean wishes he'd paid more attention to
Excellence vs. authenticity - How to define excellence in a way that doesn't lead to perfectionism, and why "doing the best you can with what you have" changes everything
The worship/production leadership dilemma - Why churches should stop hiring one person to do both roles, and what to do if you're already in that position
You're a pastor first - Why your primary objective is discipleship, not musicianship, and how that changes the way you lead your team
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction: Meet Sean Bennett
03:27 - What I'd Do Differently Stepping Into a New Role
08:04 - The Tension Between Excellence and Authenticity
13:16 - Leading a Production Team You Can Never Be With
18:15 - You're a Pastor First, Leader Second
Key Quotes
"Excellence is doing the best you can with what you have. That starts with being honest about what you actually have."
"If you're leading people, you are a pastor. Your primary objective is discipleship - helping someone become more like Jesus."
"There are some churches that could not pay me enough to work for them. And knowing that ahead of time is a good thing."
Resources Mentioned
Working Genius Assessment by Patrick Lencioni
Churchfront free courses at churchfront.com
Connect With Us
Visit churchfront.com for free church production training and resources
This is part 1 of 2. Watch part 2 for more on discipling your team, building sustainable systems, and avoiding burnout.

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Podcast Notes: Leadership & Scaling from Solo to 10+ Team Members with Jake Gosselin
Overview
Matt interviews Jake Gosselin about growing Churchfront from a one-person YouTube channel into a 10+ person church AVL systems integration company. They talk through leadership growth, hiring, delegation, and how to maintain vision while scaling, with direct parallels to church leadership.
Key Topics & Timestamps
Vision as the Foundation (00:00–05:32)
Why clear vision needs to come before leadership development

Churchfront's mission: "Equip church leaders in spaces with innovative solutions for thriving ministry."

The importance of a mission statement, vision statement, and core values

A two-day workshop at Ramsey to clarify and communicate vision

Natural progression from YouTube creator to leading a 10-person team

Key Quote: "If there is no clear vision of where you're trying to bring that organization, then everything else that we're about to talk about with leadership development and scaling an organization is kind of irrelevant because nobody knows where you're going."
The Transition from Hands-On to Hands-Off (03:23–07:54)
How Jake went from knowing everything to empowering team decision-making

Building systems so problems get solved without senior leader involvement

Decision-making frameworks around mission, vision, values, and finances

When leaders should stay involved vs. when to delegate

Team members now have authority and clarity to address issues independently

High-risk or costly decisions still require senior leader involvement

Key Quote: "It's so cool that my brain, even though I can keep up with a lot of things, I can no longer keep up with all of the cool things that are happening in the business and probably some of the headaches."
Hiring A-Players (07:54–13:04)
Essential hiring criteria:
Mission alignment — genuinely excited about equipping church leaders

Self-leadership — evidence of personal discipline (health, appearance, habits)

Character references — take time to call references and vet thoroughly

Working Genius Assessment — using Patrick Lencioni's framework to build balanced teams

Team vetting — multiple team members interview candidates

Churchfront Focus: Churchfront only works with churches (not corporate AV, DJ setups, or other venues). Candidates need to genuinely care about the local church.
Working Genius Details:
$25 assessment (WIDGET acronym)

Identifies whether someone leans toward Wonder/Invention vs. Tenacity/Galvanizing traits

Helps place people into roles that fit their strengths

Recommended for church staff to understand their "genius zones"

Key Quote: "If you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others very well."
The Challenge of Letting Go (13:37–16:56)
Why control is tempting but unsustainable for growth

Long-term vision motivates delegation

Media/marketing was Jake's original specialty and the hardest area for him to delegate to Matt

Over time, Matt learned Jake's standards and expectations

Hiring people who are better than you in specific areas

Real Examples:
Chris installs, rigs, mounts, and runs cable better than Jake

Spencer models and drafts 3D spaces faster in Vectorworks

James creates better schematics

Senior Leader Principle: Leaders should understand all departments without controlling them. Spend a few hours learning the basics so you can make informed decisions about major investments.
Church Application: Senior pastors should take Churchfront courses (a couple half-days) to be more informed than most lead pastors when making major AV decisions.
Key Quote: "I'm motivated by the long-term vision of where this is going and how big the organization has to go that I'm just like, 'Yeah, I don't need to control everything. I don't want that life where I feel like I have to because I'm just going to be miserable about that.'"
Present Leadership Without Micromanaging (17:46–19:40)
Weekly team meetings where everyone shares what they're working on

Asking: "What did you do last week?" and "What are you working on this week?" (3–10 minutes)

Five minutes with each team member can make a huge impact

Being present builds trust across the org chart

Service businesses succeed based on team health and performance

Jake shifted from solo productivity to supporting team members

Key Quote: "That five minutes of interaction with one of your team members a week, no matter where they're at in the org chart, goes a long way because they're like, 'Oh wow, our senior leader knows me. I can trust him.'"
High-Leverage Activities (19:50–23:16)
Definition of leverage: low input, high output—like a tool that multiplies your strength.
What Jake focuses on now:
Pre-design client conversations — 2–3 hours per project that sets the trajectory for large-budget projects (using Wonder/Invention/Visionary strengths)

Media creation — 30 minutes to a few hours can reach thousands (what built Churchfront over 8–10 years)

Leader development — multiplication only happens as the team grows from 10+ toward 20–30

For church leaders:
Sunday preaching — communication at scale (in-person and online)

Developing other leaders — especially in areas where you're less gifted

Key Quote: "What can I put lower input into and gives me high output? That's what a lever or a tool is."
Leadership Evolution (23:23–25:23)
John Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership (applied):
Position — title alone (doesn't get you much)

Permission — relationships; people give you permission to lead

Productivity — "Follow me because I produce results" (how Churchfront started)

Leader development — "Follow me because I'll equip you to lead others" (current focus)

Multiplication — creating leaders who create leaders

Jake's journey:
2016: solo entrepreneur and highly productive individual

Read leadership books and understood the growth track

Started with productivity to get things off the ground

With 10 people (and aiming for 20–30), he must focus on leader development to reach multiplication

Key Insight: Leadership maturity means realizing it's more people-focused than anything else.
Advice to 2016 Jake (25:44–28:06)
What Jake would tell his younger self:
"Buy more Bitcoin" (half-joking)

With what he knows now, he could do in 2–3 years what took 10

But he wouldn't rush it—focus on the journey

Be a man of good character

Follow God

Keep sustainable work-life balance

Care for spouse and kids

Don't rush—God multiplies right inputs into massive outputs

Seek wise counsel on business strategy and online marketing

Show up and do the work every day

For young 20-somethings Jake mentors:
Focus on self-leadership and the basics

Better strategies exist—learn from wise voices

Put in consistent daily work

People don't see the late-night edits and behind-the-scenes grind

Key Quote: "A lot of people see Churchfront and they're like, 'Wow, it's like 300,000 subscribers. It's a decent sized little business growing a lot.' It's like, yeah, that's after eight to 10 years of just showing up and doing it every single day."
Main Themes
Don't Throw the Baby Out with the Bathwater
As church culture shifts away from overly corporate/produced approaches back toward authenticity, it's still worth keeping the leadership lessons that help organizations run well—especially because leadership often isn't taught deeply in Bible school contexts.
Parallels Between Business and Church Leadership
Churchfront is a Christian business that prays before meetings and focuses on serving the local church. The leadership principles Jake uses translate directly to church staff leadership, especially for teams of 5–15.
The Secret Sauce
In service businesses (and churches), the team and people are the product. That's why leader development and team health matter so much.
Natural Progression
Growth happens in stages. Jake went from being intimidated by the idea of 10 staff members to progressing through each hire and stage—each step building confidence for the next.
Practical Takeaways for Church Leaders
Clarify your vision first—mission, vision, and core values you return to weekly

Hire A-players only—take time, use assessments, and get team input

Build decision-making systems so your team can solve problems without you

Stay present without micromanaging—even five minutes per person per week helps

Focus on high-leverage activities—preaching, leader development, strategic decisions

Understand all departments without needing to control them

Invest in education—leaders should understand the basics of major spending areas

Progress through leadership levels—from productivity to multiplication

Prioritize character and self-leadership—in yourself and the people you hire

Think long-term—consistent daily effort over 8–10 years creates remarkable results

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Carey Nieuwhof Interview - Podcast Notes
Overview
Conversation with Carey Nieuwhof about the shift in modern church worship from entertainment-focused to encounter-focused experiences, live streaming strategy, and church growth in the digital age.
Key Themes
1. The Shift: Entertainment vs. Encounter
The Problem with Modern Church Production
Social media created a "copycat phase" where churches could suddenly see what megachurches were doing
Churches adopted same equipment, same songs, same production values
What was unique became ubiquitous - "we all became copies of each other"
Gen Z is "the most marketed to generation in human history" and numb to production
Quote: "Gen Z is the most marketed to generation in human history. And we're all kind of numb to the production. I don't think people are looking for hype. They're looking for hope."
What People Actually Want
Something real and tangible
An experience of God, not just information about God
Presence, not just presentation
Transformation over information
The Internet's Limitation
Really good at delivering information (especially with AI)
Cannot facilitate an encounter
"There's something that happens in the room that doesn't happen online"
2. What "Encounter Over Entertainment" Looks Like
The Tonal Shift
Worship leaders being more sensitive to what's happening in the room, not just rehearsed transitions
Preachers leaving space, not just hitting time marks
Paying attention to what God might be doing (people crying, leaning in, visible reactions)
Creating space to breathe
Silence and Space
"When I started in ministry, my goal was to get rid of as much silence in church as I could"
Now: "Where else are you going to get silence? You don't get it unless you're in church"
Don't have to fill every moment with words
Can be silent or "noodle" on instruments while creating space
Quote: "People's lives are so noisy and so crowded. I mean, we don't even sleep without white noise machines or anything like that. So where else are you going to get silence?"
Evoke vs. Manipulate
Can't plan a revival - it happens or it doesn't
Job is to "set the table" and make space for the Holy Spirit
Example: Great movies evoke genuine tears by accessing real emotions
Cheap manipulation feels different
Quote: "It's not our job as Christians to manipulate. It's our job possibly to evoke, to say, 'I'm going to set the table. I can't control the Holy Spirit.'"
3. The Liturgy Issue
Modern Church is "Liturgically Malnourished"
Liturgy = order of service (not an outdated term)
Modern church handles joy and praise well
Missing: contemplation, confession, lamentation, reflection
Lost practices: prayers of confession, prayers of the people
Carey's Confession
Presbyterian background included prayers of approach and confession
As church became attractional, prayer became "just an opportunity to clear the set for the sermon"
Regrets thin prayers: "God, it's so good to be here today. We thank you so much. Amen."
Quote: "It's like confess your sins to one another and you will be healed. We don't do that anymore. What if we did that?"
Not Either/Or, But Both/And
Keep good lighting, sound, production, and musicians who can play
Add breathing room, texture, color, tone, mood
Use liturgical calendar and historic practices adapted to modern context
Don't approach Sunday as "slots to fill"
Creative Freedom
52 Sundays = 52 blank canvases
Already do this well at Easter and Christmas
Can be more creative without confusing people
Example: Good Friday Service
Ended in darkness with no announcement
Faded to black and stayed there
People sat in uncomfortable silence, then slowly left
"I wanted them to feel that discomfort... if you can even get a small sampling of that"
Easter Sunday picked up in darkness, then sunrise/resurrection
4. Live Streaming Strategy
Who Should Live Stream?
Not every church needs to live stream everything
Need good musicians to sound great online (around 400-500 attendance to have talent base)
Need separate mix for online vs. in-house
Poor production = "school play" - only interesting to those directly involved
Quote: "A lot of churches, and these are well-meaning, beautiful Christian people. If you don't have the talent in production or in worship, you sound like a school play."
Alternatives
Stream just the message
On-demand after, mixed in post-production
Audio only if video isn't good
Consider what strangers stumbling on feed would think
The Discovery Argument
Pre-COVID minority of churches streamed
Now "everybody you want to reach is online"
"All of non-Christian America, all the nuns, all the duns, all the atheists, all the agnostics, they're on the internet"
Can't remember last time truly unchurched person hadn't watched online for weeks/months before visiting
The New Foyer
Online is now the foyer, not the physical lobby
People investigate online before visiting
By the time they show up, they're ready to go "further, faster"
"They've already done their investigating. They've already asked ChatGPT all the questions"
5. Practical Service Design
Handling Growth Pressure
Multiple services create pressure to program everything tightly
Solution: Trim 5 minutes from sermon
Do 60-minute service with breathing room between
Create more lobby/connection space
Leverage outdoor space (if climate allows)
Worship Set Strategy
Don't need extended mix of everything
Maybe two songs and a tag instead of three full songs
"Sit in the tag for a while"
Find the high-impact moments (example: bridge of "How Great Is Our God")
Get to what matters, like talent shows do 90-second versions
Quote: "You don't have to do the extended mix of everything, the seven minute version, do the tag. That would be great. Space is something that you can do in three minutes if you know how to do it well."
Service Flow Examples
Don't make people stand and greet (where else does that happen?)
Have emotionally intelligent people on doors, not just available people
Greet people the way THEY want to be greeted
Consider kids moments, announcements, communion as natural transitions
Call to commitment/involvement comes sooner now than 10 years ago
6. Online Presence Best Practices
Website Design
Design for new people first
Show service times and location prominently (mobile friendly)
Staff page is #3 most viewed - people want to see "are there people like me?"
Use accurate photos (don't show 27-year-olds if congregation is 70+)
Show actual diversity if you have it
Quote (Seth Godin): "Culture is people like us do things like this. So what people are looking for, are there people like us?"
Content Strategy
Lead with best sermons, not just latest
Most popular videos should be easy to find
People don't care if it's from 2 years ago (still watching The Office)
Have robust FAQ section for unchurched questions
Position yourself for lost people, not just members
7. The Current Moment
The Harvest is Ripe
People are seeking more than maybe in past decade or two
Culture is saturated with production - not the competitive edge anymore
Mental health crisis caused by social media
People desperate for something real
What to Do
Pray for it (spiritual activity)
Make newcomer journey easy
Take them somewhere when they show up
Go deeper faster - they're ready
Quote: "People come to church looking to find God, but sometimes all they find is us. They found a really cool song, they found a really great message, but they didn't actually find God in the midst of it."
Give Them Meat
Reference to Tara-Lee Cobble and The Bible Recap
Provide historical context (helps Christians AND non-Christians)
Don't be afraid to go deep on sin, gospel, redemption
Write/speak in accessible "street Greek" like the New Testament
Example Opening: "Hey, we're going back 3000 years. And there was a guy named David who was King of Israel. He was trying to keep the kingdom united because there was a north and a south. You can relate to that. These are divided times..."
Quote (Tim Keller): "It's worse than you can possibly imagine and better than you can possibly dream."
8. Leadership Advice
For Young Church Staff (25-40)
Navigating Frustration with Leadership
Write down actual issues you're facing (budget, staffing, expertise)
Present respectfully, thoughtfully, submissively
Good leaders will either provide resources or adjust priorities
Identifying Toxic Culture
Unrealistic expectations
Unsympathetic to staff needs
Expects 60-hour weeks with no life
Toxic leader will get mad/defensive when approached
Options in Toxic Environment
Respectfully approach and share difficulties
Accept the glass ceiling and stay
Build healthy team within unhealthy body (temporary solution)
Leave - "unhealthy bodies drive out healthy cells"
Interview Questions for New Positions
Ask to talk to current staff (not the pastor)
Ask to talk to FORMER staff
Find out who left and why
Read Google reviews
Have meals/experiences together (reveals character under pressure)
Quote: "Ask around, ask if you have permission. Don't ask the pastor. Don't ask the pastor. Are you healthy? The toxic people, 'I'm so healthy.'"
9. Team Building & Growth
Hiring Philosophy
Only hire A players
C players: you know immediately (late, unmotivated, incomplete work) - should be gone
B players: good but not great - "it's too bad but we'll survive"
A players: if they quit you'd need 3 people to replace them
Quote (Netflix): "Adequate performance gets you a generous severance package."
A Player Test If they knocked on the door saying "this is my last day," how do you react?
C player: "Thank goodness, now I don't have to fire them"
B player: "Too bad but we'll survive"
A player: "Grabbing the waste basket and throwing up"
Growth Wisdom
Don't settle on staff because you're panicking
Will eventually become bloated with no profit
Profit = "permission to do this again tomorrow" (Seth Godin)
Most businesses fail not from lack of vision but lack of cash
Use tools like Working Genius to find right fit
Don't just find A players - find A players with gifts your team needs
Cultural Values
Write them down and review regularly
Ritz-Carlton: 26 values, reviewed 2-3 daily in team meetings
Use to evaluate: "Where are we winning/losing with our values?"
Catch team members exemplifying values
Values help instill culture as org chart grows
10. Upcoming Projects
Carey's New Book
Topic: AI and the Future Church
Thesis: "As the world becomes more artificial, we need to become more human as Christians"
Church's future direction is human connection
Expected publication: 2026
Latest Book
"At Your Best" - about time, energy, and priorities
Notable Statistics & Data Points
72% of teenagers have tried AI chatbots
31% prefer AI companionship to human companions
Pre-COVID: minority of churches streamed services
Can't recall single unchurched person who didn't watch online for weeks/months before visiting
Around 400-500 attendance: churches start having talent base for good production
80-95% of church growth in America is conversion growth (not transfer)
Top 3 website pages: Homepage, Messages, Staff/About
Production Quality Basics
Good Enough to Stream
Great singing (doesn't need to be phenomenal)
Decent lights
Pretty good mix
Can work with church of 150-200 with good coaching
Everything else can be helped with technology
Bare Minimum
Great guitarist + great vocalist = "off to the races"
Don't feel pressure to have full mediocre band
Add musicians as you find/afford great ones
Practical Takeaways
Create space in services - silence, breathing room, sensitivity to the room
Recover lost liturgical practices - confession, lamentation, contemplation
Go deeper faster - people are ready for meat, not just milk
Design for online discovery - unchurched people are investigating you
Lead with best content - not just latest content
Only hire A players - don't panic hire when growing
Build real human connection - counter to increasingly artificial world
Make newcomer journey easy - they're ready to engage quickly
Be creative with 52 Sundays - not just slots to fill
Focus on encounter over entertainment - production supports experience, doesn't replace it
Questions for Further Reflection
How can we create more space for confession in our services?
What would it look like to "evoke" rather than "manipulate" in worship?
Are we positioning our online presence for unchurched discovery?
Is our production supporting encounter or replacing it?
What emotions are people carrying into our services, and how do we acknowledge that?
Are we moving too fast for the Holy Spirit to work?
Memorable Quotes
"I don't think people are looking for hype. They're looking for hope."
"People aren't looking for more information. They're looking for presence, not just presentation."
"The internet is really good at information, especially with AI. You want to know anything, you can find out anything, but the internet can't really facilitate an encounter."
"It's not our job as Christians to manipulate. It's our job possibly to evoke."
"Where else are you going to get silence? You don't get it unless you're in church."
"If you don't have the talent in production or in worship, you sound like a school play."
"Everybody you want to reach is online."
"Your foyer has moved online."
"People come to church looking to find God, but sometimes all they find is us."
"As the world becomes more artificial, we need to become more human as Christians."
"Adequate performance gets you a generous severance package."
"Profit is permission to do this again tomorrow."