Distance To Empty

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

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⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
She won Moab 240 and Tahoe 200. She won Western States, Hardrock, and UTMB — sometimes back to back to back in the same summer. She came to Cocodona 250 last year, led the entire field through 108 miles, and stopped at Mingus Mountain. She ran a 2:38 road marathon in the fall because she wanted to feel like a beginner at something. She is back.
In this episode of Flagstaff Bound 2026, Kevin and Peter sit down with Courtney Dauwalter for a conversation about what this distance actually requires from her — patience, adventure, and progress that looks different depending on which part of the roller coaster you're on. Courtney talks about what a full reset after UTMB actually looked like, why rediscovering the road marathon reignited something she didn't know needed reigniting, and how she thinks about racing something this long when every decision you make on day one compounds across day two, night two, and day three.
She also asked if there were NBA jerseys at the Mingus Basketball Association. There are. She is extremely ready.
Her chalkboard message at Mingus Mountain is a letter to herself: dear Courtney, this is not your finish line. Love Courtney.
Her prediction for Cocodona 2026 is that at least 1,500 pickles will be consumed across all race distances. She needs Jamil and the team to count.
Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!
She won Badwater 135 in 2021. In 2023 she ran four 200-plus mile races in five months — Cocodona 250 first, then Tahoe, then Bigfoot two weeks after that, then won Moab 240 to cap the Grand Slam — despite getting blisters within the first few miles of Cocodona and spending much of that year in a level of physical discomfort she describes as the worst of her life. She's coming back for Cocodona in 2026 after a significant knee injury that had doctors telling her she was done with 200s. She found a surgeon who paused and said "but."
In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Sally McRae — Yellow Runner, Badwater champion, Grand Slam finisher, author of Choose Strong, and the only guest in this series who described Cocodona 250 as "an eating contest from Phoenix to Flagstaff." Sally talks about what that 2023 Grand Slam actually felt like from the inside, why she's leaning into gratitude and away from pride heading into this year's race, and the thing she tells athletes who are in their darkest moments out there — think about the story you want to tell.
Her daughter is a runner at NAU. Sally is hoping she runs her into the finish line.
Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

EPISODE DESCRIPTION
She was almost on the U.S. Olympic ice hockey team. She got a scholarship to Princeton. She taught world history. Then she became a professional triathlete, won six Ironman triathlons, set the all-time fastest Ironman by an American woman, finished third at Kona, and retired from triathlon in 2022. Since then she has won Western States golden ticket races, finished seventh at Western States, taken fifth at CCC, and set the course record at the Unbound XL — a 350-mile gravel race.
This is her first 200-mile trail race.
In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Heather Jackson — six-time Ironman champion, professional ultrarunner, and someone who by her own admission goes out way too hard and blows up, and is hoping to not do that at Cocodona. Heather talks about what the transition from triathlon to trail actually looks like from the inside, how her husband manages her sponsors, films her YouTube channel, and sags her training runs on his mountain bike, and why she's genuinely terrified of this race in the best possible way. She's been watching the Cocodona live stream for five years and can't believe she gets to be on it.
Her five words are "holy shit I am scared." Her chalkboard message at Mingus is for her dogs Stevie and Frankie. If they're waiting for her, she'll get there faster.
Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Episode Title: Cocodona 250 Course Preview 2026
Kevin and Peter are back with their most-downloaded episode of the year — the Cocodona 250 Course Preview. With a combined ~5 finishes between them, the guys break down everything you need to know before toeing the line in Black Canyon City this May.
They cover all the meaningful 2026 course changes first: the new Watson Lake Aid Station (bring $5 cash for parking), the relocated Fain Ranch at Living Waters Church, the loss of crew access at Deer Pass (hello, 50K crew-less stretch), and the big pacer rule flip — you can now bring a pacer through Walnut Canyon, but the final 19 miles over Elden are solo. No pacers. Just you and the mountain.
Then it's a section-by-section breakdown of all 253 miles:
Start to Crown King — 37 miles, 11K+ feet of gain, and one critical right turn you cannot miss
Crown King to Whiskey Row — navigating the Bradshaws overnight through Camp Kippa and the Yankee Doodle Trail
Whiskey Row to Mingus Mountain — crossing Prescott Valley, the Granite Dells, the Fain Ranch gopher field, and the big Mingus climb
Mingus to Sedona — the most mentally draining stretch of the race, a junkyard descent out of Jerome, and a Verde River crossing
The Hangover Trail — slick rock, big exposure, 40-minute miles, and somehow the most beautiful part of the course
Schnebly Hill to Walnut Canyon — 51 miles deep in the race on the Coconino Plateau, Muns Park, Kelly Canyon, and the legendary Fort Tuthill
Walnut Canyon to the Finish — the final solo push up Elden via the Newhart Trail and down the steep descent into Heritage Square
The guys also share details on the Distance to Empty ShakeOut Run (Sunday May 3rd, 2 PM at Deep Canyon Ranch), the Mingus Basketball Association three-shot challenge (live leaderboard, prizes from Mount to Coast, John G, and Ultraspire), and how to score some DTE swag out on course.
Whether you're racing, crewing, pacing, or just dreaming — this is the episode to prep with.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In 2023 he showed up to Whiskey Row ten hours behind the leaders, told his crew he was still going to win and set the course record, and then did exactly that. In 2025 he herniated a disc and watched Kilian Korth take his Triple Crown records from his couch. He described it as a whirlwind of emotions. He went to therapy, read about the mind-body connection, and concluded his back hurt because he was trying too hard to win. He came back and immediately won the Arizona Monster 300 and set the course record.
In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Mike McKnight — the Dark McKnight, the King of 200s, the man who is very uncomfortable being called the King of 200s — for one of the most honest conversations in the series. Mike talks about why Cocodona is the one race he hasn't figured out despite winning it, how his mantra of "decide, don't hope" played out in real time at the Arizona Monster when second place closed a three-mile gap on him in the Tucson heat, and why he's working to get to the start line with genuine confidence rather than just telling himself he has it.
His chalkboard message at Mingus is "I want it that way." He is a Backstreet Boys fan. He is not embarrassed about this.
Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.