The Deconstructionists

This episode steps back and asks a harder question:

What has the church done in moments like this before—and what does faithfulness actually require now?

We begin with church history, tracing how Christians have repeatedly been asked to bless state violence in the name of order and safety. We examine how labels like “criminal,” “terrorist,” and “threat” have historically been used to short-circuit moral responsibility.

We then turn to Scripture—not as proof texts, but as story—allowing the biblical narrative to confront modern assumptions about power, violence, and the stranger.

Topics covered

Historical patterns of Christian complicity with state violence
Why labels matter more than we think
False equivalence arguments (“what about…”)
Why due process is a moral issue
Jesus, the stranger, and state power
Why faith rooted in the margins looks different

Scripture referenced

Exodus 22:21
Leviticus 19:33–34
Deuteronomy 10:18–19
Isaiah 1
Amos 5
Micah 6:8
Luke 10:25–37
Matthew 25:31–46
Matthew 26:52
John 18–19
Romans 12–13 (read together, not selectively)

Historical & analytical resources

Migration Policy Institute — Immigration & Enforcement Analysis
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/explainers
Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse
https://tracreports.org

Reflection question

Who are we being asked to look away from—and what does that cost our faith?

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Behind-the-scenes content and extended conversations

If you value thoughtful, well-researched conversations like this one—and want tools to keep exploring—Patreon is the best way to support the work and dive deeper.
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👉 Join us on Patreon and help make conversations like this possible.

For all things Deconstructionists check out: www.thedecontructionists.org

Special music provided by Forrest Clay from the Recover EP.

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When Fear Becomes Policy

In this episode, we address what’s happening right now in the United States as Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operations escalate in visibility, intensity, and violence.

This is not a political episode.
It’s a human one.

We examine verified facts, video evidence, and legal realities surrounding recent enforcement actions, including documented cases involving American citizens, the failure to follow established protocols after lethal force, and the growing pattern of intimidation, escalation, and public spectacle.

We also talk about confirmation bias—how fear and identity shape what we’re willing to see—and why Christians and the spiritually curious alike have a responsibility to trust evidence over narratives.

Topics covered

What ICE can and cannot legally do
Why due process matters even when immigration law is involved
The danger of pre-justifying violence
Confirmation bias and moral shortcuts
Why “order” is not the same thing as justice
The role of witnesses, neighbors, and allies

Key resources & links

American Civil Liberties Union — Know Your Rights (Immigrants & Bystanders)
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/immigrants-rights
National Lawyers Guild — Legal Observers & Recording Rights
https://www.nlg.org/legal-observers/
Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC Immigration)
Independent reporting on ICE enforcement and immigration court data
https://tracreports.org/immigration

Reflection question

When fear is loud and authority is visible, how do we decide what we’re willing to accept—and what we’re willing to question?

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Behind-the-scenes content and extended conversations

If you value thoughtful, well-researched conversations like this one—and want tools to keep exploring—Patreon is the best way to support the work and dive deeper.
Support: https://patreon.com/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast
👉 Join us on Patreon and help make conversations like this possible.

For all things Deconstructionists check out: www.thedecontructionists.org

Special music provided by Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

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Episode Description

In Part Two of our conversation with Alexander Shaia, we move beyond theory and into practice—exploring what spiritual transformation actually looks like in real life.

In Part One, we traced the foundations of Dr. Shaia’s work and why his approach to the Gospels resonates so deeply with people navigating faith, doubt, and deconstruction. In this episode, we go deeper—into lived experience, inner change, and the courage it takes to move forward when certainty falls away.

Dr. Shaia shares how spiritual frameworks are meant to form us, not control us, and why the Christian tradition—at its best—has always been about movement, growth, and becoming. This conversation speaks especially to those who feel stuck between belief and disbelief, longing for a faith that can hold both honesty and hope.

About Our Guest

Alexander Shaia is a theologian, speaker, and author best known for his work on the transformational structure of the Gospels. His book, Heart and Mind, explores the fourfold journey found within the Christian tradition and presents a compelling alternative to rigid, belief-based models of faith.

Dr. Shaia’s work has become especially meaningful for those who are deconstructing inherited belief systems while still seeking depth, wisdom, and spiritual grounding.

Education:

Ph.D., Clinical Psychology, California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, CA, 1991
Graduate Certificate, Pastoral Psychotherapy, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA, 1982
Master of Religious Education, Seattle University, Seattle, WA, 1981
M.A., Counseling Education, University of Alabama in Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, 1976
B.A., Cultural Anthropology, University of Notre Dame du lac, Notre Dame, IN, 1974
Jungian and Sandplay Studies, 1973 - Current; month intensive with Dora M. Kalff – Jungian analyst & originator of Sandplay, Zollikon, Switzerland, July/August 1989
Psychosynthesis Certificate, Psychosynthesis Training Institute, San Francisco, CA, Two year training, 1986-1988 

Website: www.quadratos.org
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/quadratos/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Quadratos1/featured
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderJohnShaia/

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Listen & Connect

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Share this episode with someone navigating faith, doubt, or transition

Website: www.thedeconstructionists.org

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A Holiday Conversation with Dr. Alexander Shaia — 
Part 1

For many people, the holiday season isn’t filled with joy and nostalgia — it’s filled with grief, loneliness, exhaustion, and complicated memories. This episode is especially for those who find this time of year difficult.

In Part One of this two-part holiday conversation, we’re joined by our dear friend Alexander Shaia for a reflective, unhurried dialogue about meaning, presence, and the wisdom found in honoring seasons rather than fighting them.

Rather than offering platitudes or quick fixes, Dr. Shaia invites us to slow down — to consider what it looks like to live faithfully and humanely when certainty feels thin and the world feels overwhelming. Drawing from ancient Christian wisdom, lived experience, and deep compassion, this conversation offers space to breathe, reflect, and feel less alone.

This is not a teaching session or a debate. It’s a pastoral, contemplative conversation — meant to be received gently, especially by those who are carrying more than they can name this season.

Part Two will continue the conversation, moving deeper into themes of hope, transformation, and what it means to move forward without rushing resolution.

🕯️ About Dr. Alexander Shaia

Dr. Alexander Shaia is a theologian, speaker, author, and Quadratos-trained scholar best known for his work on the ancient Christian fourfold Gospel model, a framework that predates modern linear approaches to Scripture and spiritual formation.

His work focuses on helping individuals and communities rediscover cyclical wisdom, spiritual maturity, and transformative faith — especially for those who feel disillusioned, wounded, or worn down by rigid or overly simplistic expressions of Christianity.

Dr. Shaia is widely respected for his ability to bridge scholarship, spirituality, and real human experience, offering language for faith that is honest, compassionate, and deeply grounded in history.

📚 Learn More & Connect with Dr. Shaia

Official Website:
https://www.alexandershaia.com & https://www.quadratos.org/
Books by Dr. Shaia:
Heart and Mind: The Four-Gospel Journey for Radical Transformation
Returning From Camino
Speaking & Teaching:
Information about events, workshops, and courses can be found on his website.

Education:

Ph.D., Clinical Psychology, California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, CA, 1991
Graduate Certificate, Pastoral Psychotherapy, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA, 1982
Master of Religious Education, Seattle University, Seattle, WA, 1981
M.A., Counseling Education, University of Alabama in Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, 1976
B.A., Cultural Anthropology, University of Notre Dame du lac, Notre Dame, IN, 1974
Jungian and Sandplay Studies, 1973 - Current; month intensive with Dora M. Kalff – Jungian analyst & originator of Sandplay, Zollikon, Switzerland, July/August 1989
Psychosynthesis Certificate, Psychosynthesis Training Institute, San Francisco, CA, Two year training, 1986-1988 

🎧 Coming Up Next

➡️ Part Two of this holiday conversation continues with deeper reflection on wisdom, hope, and what it means to live faithfully in uncertain times.

If this episode resonates with you, consider sharing it with someone who might need a quieter, gentler voice this season.

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Episode Summary:
Part 2 of our conversation with philosopher and friend of the show Peter Rollins goes even deeper into the psychological, existential, and communal dynamics of faith and identity. If Part 1 set the stage, Part 2 pulls the curtain all the way back.

This is one of those conversations that lingers. It’s dense, it’s provocative, and it’s full of the kind of insights that Pete has become known for all around the world.

Resources & References:
Peter Rollins’ official website: https://peterrollins.com
Pyrotheology gatherings, seminars, and resources
Peter’s books and lectures on belief, identity, and desire

Connect With Us:

Website: www.thedeconstructionists.org
Instagram: @deconstructionistspodcast
Email: [email protected]
If you enjoyed this two-part conversation, share it with a friend and tag us on social media.

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