The Deconstructionists

What happens when grief changes not just your life… but your identity?
In part one of this conversation, John sits down with author, grief guide, and speaker Shelby Forsythia to discuss her new book and the complicated, deeply human realities of loss, healing, and personal transformation.
Together, they explore the myths we inherit about grief, why so many people feel pressure to “move on” too quickly, and how grief can quietly reshape our relationships, spirituality, and sense of self. Rather than offering clichés or easy answers, Shelby approaches grief with honesty, compassion, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty — something longtime listeners of The Deconstructionists will likely find familiar.
Topics include:
Why grief is not a linear process
The cultural pressure to “get over” loss
How grief impacts identity and spirituality
Emotional honesty versus performative healing
Why many people feel isolated in their pain
The connection between grief and personal growth
Learning to live alongside loss rather than “defeating” it
Shelby’s work offers a compassionate alternative to the toxic positivity and oversimplified narratives that often surround grief conversations.
If this conversation resonates with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who may need it.
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What if one of the most influential ideas in modern Christianity… didn’t actually come from Jesus?
In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we explore the history and impact of dualism — the ancient belief that spirit is good while matter, bodies, and the physical world are somehow lesser, corrupt, or evil.
From Plato and Greek philosophy to Gnosticism and modern evangelical culture, we trace how dualistic thinking quietly shaped theology, sexuality, purity culture, views of the body, the afterlife, politics, and even the way many Christians understand salvation itself.
We ask questions like:
Why have so many Christians viewed the body with suspicion?
Did the Bible actually teach a sharp divide between “spiritual” and “physical”?
How did Greek philosophy influence early Christianity?
Why do some forms of Christianity focus so heavily on “escaping the world”?
What happens when faith becomes disconnected from embodiment, justice, and humanity?
And what might a more holistic, integrated spirituality look like?

Along the way, we discuss:
Plato and the influence of Greek metaphysics
Gnosticism and the material/spiritual divide
The Hebrew understanding of embodied humanity
Paul’s writings and common misunderstandings about “flesh”
Heaven, resurrection, and the renewal of creation
Purity culture and body shame
The lasting influence of dualism on modern evangelicalism
Deconstruction, embodiment, and recovering wholeness

This conversation explores how ideas developed historically — and how those ideas still shape people’s lives today, often in ways they don’t even realize.
Whether you come from an evangelical background, are in the middle of deconstruction, or are simply interested in theology, philosophy, and history, this episode offers a deeper look at one of the hidden frameworks underneath modern Christianity.
Topics Covered
Dualism in Christianity
Plato and Greek philosophy
Gnosticism
Embodiment and spirituality
Resurrection theology
Purity culture
Biblical anthropology
Evangelical theology
Deconstruction and reconstruction
Mind/body divide
Spiritual formation
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In Part 2 of our conversation, Bart Ehrman returns to discuss his latest book, Love Thy Stranger, and the lasting impact Jesus’ teachings had on moral thought in the Western world.
We continue exploring how ideas surrounding compassion, forgiveness, charity, and care for outsiders emerged within early Christianity — while also wrestling with the ways institutions and political movements have often failed to embody those same values.
In this episode we discuss:
The tension between the teachings of Jesus and modern political Christianity
Immigration, nationalism, and “loving your neighbor”
How moral frameworks evolve over time
The role Christianity played in shaping Western ethics
Historical misunderstandings about the ancient world
Why empathy and human dignity remain central themes in Jesus’ message

Be sure to check out Dr. Ehrman’s new book, Love Thy Stranger, available now wherever books are sold.
Guest Bio
Bart Ehrman is a New Testament scholar, historian of early Christianity, and the author of numerous bestselling books including Misquoting Jesus, Heaven and Hell, Jesus Interrupted, and How Jesus Became God. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
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Dr. Bart Ehrman – Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West (Part 1)
In Part 1 of our conversation with renowned New Testament scholar and historian Dr. Bart Ehrman, we dive into his latest book, "Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West".
For centuries, people have debated whether Christianity has been a force for compassion or division. But what if one of the most radical moral ideas in human history came directly from the teachings of Jesus himself?
In this episode, Bart explores how concepts like caring for the poor, loving enemies, and extending compassion beyond one’s tribe were not common moral assumptions in the ancient world—and how the teachings attributed to Jesus helped reshape Western moral imagination over time.
We also discuss:
What morality looked like in the ancient Greco-Roman world
Why compassion was often viewed as weakness in antiquity
The historical context surrounding Jesus’ teachings
The difference between Jesus’ message and later Christian institutions
Whether modern secular morality still carries the fingerprints of Christianity
Why many people misunderstand the historical Jesus
The tension between the teachings of Jesus and modern Christian nationalism
How history complicates simplistic narratives about religion’s role in society

As always, this conversation approaches faith, history, and culture through the lens of scholarship, curiosity, and honest dialogue.
About Dr. Bart Ehrman
Dr. Bart Ehrman is one of the world’s leading scholars on the New Testament and early Christianity. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the author of numerous bestselling books including:
"Misquoting Jesus"
"Jesus, Interrupted"
"Heaven and Hell"
"Armageddon"

His work focuses on the historical Jesus, the development of early Christianity, biblical manuscripts, and how religious ideas evolve over time.
Support The Deconstructionists
If you enjoy conversations like this and want to help support independent podcasts and educational content, there are several great ways to support the show:
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Connect With Us
Website: https://www.thedeconstructionists.org

Bart Ehrman Links
Official Website: https://www.bartehrman.com
Books & Courses: https://www.bartehrman.com/books/
Blog: https://ehrmanblog.org

Thank you for listening to The Deconstructionists Podcast.
Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Bart Ehrman will be available soon.

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In Part 2 of our conversation with Lillian Daniel, we move deeper into the tensions at the heart of her story—and the bigger questions it raises for the modern church.

If Part 1 explored what happened, this episode asks what it means.

We talk about accountability, institutional systems, and whether the church is actually capable of handling failure in a way that leads to healing rather than harm.

📚 About Lillian Daniel

Lillian Daniel is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and currently serves as a Conference Minister, overseeing churches and clergy across Michigan.

She has taught preaching at institutions including Yale Divinity School and the University of Chicago, and is the author of multiple books on faith, ministry, and the evolving role of the church.

Her latest book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, explores her own experience with discipline, failure, and restoration—and what it reveals about the systems meant to hold leaders accountable.

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