The Deconstructionists

The Deconstructionists Podcast
Guest: Dr. Michelle Keener
In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Michelle Keener, we go deeper into the themes of her book, Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors, and what it means to engage scripture after certainty has cracked.

If Part 1 explored how harmful interpretations take root, this episode focuses on what comes after—especially for those navigating trauma, deconstruction, and the loss of familiar frameworks.

In this episode, we discuss:
How trauma reshapes identity, faith, and one’s image of God
Why grief, anger, and protest are not spiritual failures
How Job’s refusal to accept easy answers can be a model for honesty
What it looks like to reconstruct meaning without rushing toward certainty

Dr. Keener brings both scholarly depth and deep compassion to this conversation, offering language and insight for experiences many people struggle to name.

If you’ve ever been told your pain needed a theological explanation…
If you’ve been pressured to “trust God” instead of being heard…
Or if you’re learning how to hold faith with open hands—

This conversation is for you.

Guest Bio:
Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.
https://www.michellekeener.com/

For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

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In this first part of our conversation, we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Keener, author of Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors.

The Book of Job is often cited in conversations about suffering—but just as often, it’s been used to minimize pain, rush people toward answers, or reinforce harmful ideas about God, blame, and endurance. In Comfort in the Ashes, Dr. Keener offers a different approach: one that reads Job through the lens of trauma, care, and lived human experience.

In Part 1, we focus on foundations:

How the Book of Job has traditionally been taught—and why those interpretations often fail trauma survivors
The difference between theological explanation and pastoral care
Why certainty can feel safer than honesty, even when it causes harm
How questioning inherited beliefs can be an act of survival, not rebellion

This conversation isn’t about solving suffering or defending doctrine.
It’s about slowing down, listening well, and making room for pain without trying to explain it away.

Guest Bio:
Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.
https://www.michellekeener.com/

For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-content

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In Part Two of our conversation with John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, we move from historical foundations to present-day consequences.

Once Jesus is understood within the realities of Roman imperial power, the implications become unavoidable — especially in a moment when Christianity in the United States is increasingly entangled with political authority, violence, and domination.

In this episode, we explore:
The meaning of the “Kingdom of God” in contrast to imperial power
Nonviolence, resistance, and the cost of discipleship
How Christianity shifted from challenging empire to aligning with it
The difference between domination systems and distributive justice
Why these ancient tensions feel so familiar today

This isn’t about telling listeners what to believe politically.
It’s about asking whether Christianity still resembles the movement it began as — or whether comfort and power have rewritten the story.

Why This Conversation Matters Now

The questions raised in this episode aren’t abstract or theoretical. They echo loudly in today’s debates about nationalism, violence, faith, and identity in the United States.

By grounding the conversation in history, Crossan and Okinczyc-Cruz offer listeners tools — not talking points — to think critically about how faith operates in the real world.

Continue the Conversation

If this episode resonated with you, we encourage you to explore the works linked above and join us for ongoing discussions at www.thedeconstructionsts.org where you can join our Patreon, read our blog, and listen to our entire back catalogue of over 200 episodes!

Special music provide by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-content

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In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we’re joined by John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz for the first part of a wide-ranging conversation about Jesus, empire, and why historical context matters now more than ever.

As religion, power, and nationalism continue to collide in the United States, this conversation feels remarkably timely — not because it’s reacting to current events, but because it’s rooted deeply in history.

In Part One, we focus on setting the foundation:
The world of the Roman Empire and how it shaped early Christianity
Why Jesus must be understood as a first-century Jewish figure under imperial occupation
What happens when modern readers remove Jesus from his historical context
Why asking historical questions doesn’t weaken faith — but often deepens it

This episode invites listeners to take the Bible seriously enough to let it challenge modern assumptions about power, violence, and faithfulness.

About Our Guests

John Dominic Crossan is one of the most influential New Testament scholars of the last fifty years. A historian of early Christianity and co-founder of the Jesus Seminar, Crossan has written extensively on the historical Jesus, the Roman Empire, and the political implications of early Christian theology.

Michael Okinczyc-Cruz is a scholar whose work focuses on empire, power, and the intersection of theology, politics, and economic systems. His research explores how religious ideas function in real historical and social contexts — especially under conditions of domination.

Together, they bring historical rigor and moral clarity to questions that remain deeply relevant today.

Featured Works & Links

John Dominic Crossan
Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/jesus-a-revolutionary-biography-john-dominic-crossan
The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-historical-jesus-john-dominic-crossan
God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/god-and-empire-john-dominic-crossan
How to Read the Bible and Still Be a Christian
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/how-to-read-the-bible-and-still-be-a-christian-john-dominic-crossan

Michael Okinczyc-Cruz

The Politics of Discipleship (with John Dominic Crossan)
https://www.fortresspress.com/store/productgroup/553/The-Politics-of-Discipleship

Special Music Provided by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

For all things Deconstructionists go to www.thedeconstructionists.org

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In this deeply moving conversation, John sits down for part two with Valentyn Syniy, a Ukrainian pastor, theologian, and author whose life and ministry have been profoundly shaped by the reality of war.

This interview was recorded under extraordinary circumstances. Scheduling had to account for the very real possibility of Russian airstrikes and power outages. Valentyn’s wife graciously joined the conversation to assist with translation at moments, helping ensure that everything Valentyn wanted to communicate was conveyed with clarity and care.

Together, we explore:
What it means to live, pastor, and hold onto faith in the midst of active war
How violence and trauma test long-held theological assumptions
The difference between discussing war and surviving it
Where hope, honesty, and spiritual resilience are found when everything familiar is under siege

Some stories shared in this episode may be difficult to hear, but they are necessary—and deeply human.

About the Book

Valentyn is the author of God Under Siege, a powerful and unflinching reflection on faith, suffering, and God’s presence amid the devastation of war. Drawing from lived experience rather than distant theology, the book challenges easy answers and invites readers into a more honest, grounded faith.

Get the book:
Amazon
Major booksellers
Wherever books are sold

The Music For this Episode: Forrest Clay "Child of War"

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👉 Join us on Patreon and help make conversations like this possible.

For all things Deconstructionists check out: www.thedecontructionists.org

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