The Remnant Radio's Podcast

How should we read the Book of Revelation? It's easy to write it off as the most confusing book in the Bible, with multiple viewpoints on how to interpret it. Joshua Lewis sits down with fellow co-host Michael Rowntree, author of the new book The World Made Right, to discuss the rules and perspective we should apply to apocalyptic literature (the genre Revelation belongs to). Michael says the moment we reach for a newspaper to decode Revelation, we've already misread it.
ABOUT THE EPISODE:
Michael and Josh examine why the Apostle John calls his own book "signified" in the very first verse, why Revelation interprets itself and leans on the Old Testament, and why the book was written to form the church, not just predict its future.
Michael breaks down the layers of genre at work, apocalyptic, prophetic, and a letter all at once, and why getting that right changes how you read every image in the book. They also explore recapitulation, the way Revelation circles back and re-magnifies the same events (Revelation 4, 6, 11, 16) instead of moving in a straight timeline, and discuss the four major interpretive lenses believers bring to the book: preterist, futurist, idealist, and historicist.
Join us to hear why Michael says, "Revelation is for us, but it's not about us," and how reading it with the right rules and perspective turns it into a book of hope, not fear.
0:00 – Introduction
0:56 – Reading Revelation Differently
4:31 – Symbolism vs Literalism
10:14 – Apocalyptic Genre Explained
16:15 – Prophecy Foretelling Forthtelling
20:04 – Revelation As Letter
22:34 – Why Genre Matters
33:06 – Preterist Futurist Idealist Views
37:54 – Recapitulation In Revelation
44:07 – Four Views Compared
54:55 – Tools For Interpretation
58:45 – Book Pre-Order | Available at RemCon
ABOUT THE BOOK:
The World Made Right: Finding Confident Hope in the Book of Revelation by Michael Rowntree (Zondervan, October 20, 2027 — pre-order includes bonus content, including a commentary on Daniel 7): https://www.michaelrowntree.com/preorder-bonuses/
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
The Climax of Prophecy: Studies on the Book of Revelation by Richard Bauckham: https://www.amazon.com/Climax-Prophecy-Studies-Book-Revelation/dp/0567086259
The Theology of the Book of Revelation by Richard Bauckham: https://www.amazon.com/Theology-Book-Revelation-New-Testament/dp/0521356911
Apocalyptic by Leon Morris: https://www.amazon.com/Apocalyptic-Leon-Morris/dp/0802814557
The Fathers on the Future: A 2nd-Century Eschatology for the 21st-Century Church by Michael Svigel: https://www.amazon.com/Fathers-Future-2nd-Century-Eschatology-21st-Century/dp/1496487664
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church

Skillet's John and Korey Cooper just described spiritual abuse they endured at an NAR church. Unfortunately, their story shapes a pattern showing up in many churches across the country. Josh, Michael and Michael will speak with a former elder of the Cooper's church to understand what happened and learn how to better recognize spiritual abuse. 

ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
John and Korey Cooper recently sat down for a long, detailed interview on Alisa Childers' YouTube channel (link to full episode below) and described what they say happened inside Korey's lifelong church. Leadership they'd trusted for decades had quietly embraced New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) theology. When the Coopers began asking direct theological questions, they say the response wasn't a proper answer. Instead, it was pressure, prophetic words used against people close to them, and warnings that leaving would cost them God's blessing.

In reviewing the Coopers' story, Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller, and Michael Rowntree will walk through what the New Apostolic Reformation actually teaches about apostolic authority, why "sound doctrine" so easily gets redefined once a leader claims that kind of role, and why asking a direct question about a church's beliefs should never be treated as rebellion. We'll look at where this movement's theology runs into what Scripture actually says about who qualifies to lead (1 Timothy 3, Titus 1:9), who the church is actually built on (Ephesians 2:20), and whether any leader, even a real apostle, is above correction (Galatians 1:8).

Join us to better understand the Coopers' story and learn how to spot spiritual abuse before it costs you.

ALISA CHILDERS' INTERVIEW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GwayjaKqfQ

 0:00 – Introduction
 2:13 – Caleb's Background Story
 3:20 – Reacting to Cooper Interview
 9:36 – Church Structure Overview
 15:12 – VNC Course Explained
 18:23 – Apostles as Foundation Doctrine
 27:47 – Caleb's Theological Journey
 33:35 – Relational Leverage and Control
 39:24 – Darvo Text and Gaslighting
 44:07 – Right vs Wrong Loyalty
 50:41 – Isolation and Matthew 18
 58:00 – Gossip vs Slander Defined
 1:06:35 – Third-Party Investigation Findings
 1:11:24 – False Visions Red Flags
 1:16:11 – Hope and Healing After 
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church

John Bevere's "Under Cover" has sold close to half a million copies and shaped how a generation of churches views submission. In a previous episode, Joshua Lewis and Michael Miller discussed the dangers of the type of authority Bevere's book promotes (see link below). But does "Under Cover" also present a different Gospel? 

ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Josh and Michael return to "Under Cover" to track how often the book confuses law and gospel, treating obedience as the source of faith and the ground of salvation instead of its fruit. They compare Bevere's own quotes against Luke 14, Matthew 7, Galatians, Hebrews 11, and James 2. 

Unfortunately, what they find is a consistent pattern: obedience is the ground of assurance instead of its fruit, and faith is treated as something you earn your way into rather than something freely given.

Join us to understand where Bevere's book veers from Scripture and how to better recognize doctrinal drift when you see it.

0:00 – Introduction
1:03 – Law and Gospel Explained
6:49 – Luke 14 Wedding Parable
17:16 – Matthew 7:21 Lord Lord
30:41 – Bevere's Sobering Vision
35:04 – God's Unconditional Acceptance
42:43 – Cain, Abel, and Faith
50:31 – Galatians and Witchcraft Curse
59:51 – Abraham's Obedience Examined
1:09:16 – James, Faith Without Works

PREVIOUS EPISODE ON JOHN BEVERE'S "UNDER COVER":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWoF5MsH9pE
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church

Ask a first-century rabbi if biblical prophecy had ceased, and he'd say yes. Ask him if God still spoke, and he'd tell you about the Bat Kol.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
Josh, Michael and Michael explore the biblical case that prophecy operates at more than one level of authority. Scripture itself is uniquely inspired, infallible, and authoritative, while other genuine prophetic revelation can still occur without becoming Scripture. To explore this more, we turn to rabbinic Judaism and the fascinating concept of the Bat Kol.

Bat Kol means "daughter of a voice." It's rabbinic Judaism's term for a diminished echo of prophecy that kept showing up long after the age of the biblical prophets. This historical evidence suggests that the idea of genuine, non-canonical revelation was not foreign to ancient Jewish thought and may provide important historical support for the continuity view of prophecy.
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church

Can you take the mark of the beast by accident? Get it through an RFID chip? A vaccine? A barcode to buy and sell? It's a question that's kept believers concerned, especially with new technologies appearing. But most answers on the Internet start in the wrong place. Michael Rowntree starts in the Bible with Ezekiel and Deuteronomy.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Michael walks through Revelation 13:16–18, then follows it back to its Old Testament roots. His case: the mark of the beast was never a physical mark, but a spiritual insignia, a counterfeit of God's own seal. What it actually signifies is allegiance.

Join Michael to understand:
- Why Ezekiel 9 and Deuteronomy 6 hold the real key to interpreting Revelation 13:16–18
- How the seal of God in Revelation 7:3 and 14:4 and the mark of the beast counterfeit each other
- Why the mark speaks of allegiance, ownership, and protection, and why none of those happen to you by accident
- A closer look at gematria, the practice of calculating 666 to pin down a specific antichrist, and why Michael thinks it falls short
- What Michael believes it actually means to prepare for the mark of the beast today

0:00 – Introduction
1:11 – Revelation 13 Mark Text
3:34 – Seal Context Revelation 6-7
7:55 – Ezekiel 9 Background
10:00 – Deuteronomy 6 Background
11:57 – Counterfeits in Revelation 13
13:40 – Daniel 7 & the Four Beasts
15:27 – Tests of Allegiance
18:46 – Technology and the Mark
20:20 – Decoding 666
23:48 – The World Made Right
25:21 – Hope in Revelation

📖BOOK:
The World Made Right: Finding Confident Hope in the Book of Revelation 
https://www.michaelrowntree.com/the-world-made-right/
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church