The Installation Art Podcast

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Katriina Campitelli is a Toronto-based public art curator with Finnish and Italian roots who has spent over five years commissioning permanent and temporary public art across Canada. She started during the pandemic by creating a projection mapping festival when galleries shut down, and hasn't stopped since. This is a conversation from the other side of the public art table: what do public art curators actually do, what they are looking for and what many artists get wrong.
Katriina's work spans permanent commissions to ephemeral festivals, sculpture gardens and community engagement programs.
This episode is essential listening for any artist thinking about making the jump into public art. But it's equally fascinating for anyone who's ever walked past a sculpture and wondered how it got there.

What we cover:
• The percent-for-art funding model and why most permanent public art is tied to infrastructure budgets
• What a public art curator actually does start to finish
• Why the only way to learn public art is to make public art and why that's a genuine problem given that public art cannot fail
• The Drunk Frat Boy test: what your work needs before it can be installed in a public space
• The giant chrome cow that led to two years of community backlash
• Why Maurizio Cattelan's middle finger outside the Milan stock exchange became a permanent installation
• What selection panelists notice (and remember) about artists and why being kind is a strategic career choice
• Why public art matters beyond aesthetics: as a tool for economic development, wayfinding, community belonging and joy

05:40 Growing Up Between Cultures
07:20 Master's in Italy
10:23 What a Public Art Curator Does
17:19 Finding Artists
19:16 How to Start in Public Art
30:00 Community Buy-In and Cautionary Tales
37:14 Temporary vs Permanent Public Art
38:24 Design Longevity Rules
47:30 Community Engagement Wins
57:36 Advice for Applicants
01:03:46 Career Highlights

Katriina Campitelli is based in Toronto, Canada.
Find out more about Katriina’s work on her website https://katcampitelli.ca/ and follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katcampitelli/

Also mentioned in this episode:
JR: https://www.jr-art.net/ | https://www.instagram.com/jr/
Percent For Public Art: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/planning-development/official-plan-guidelines/design-guidelines/percent-for-public-art-inventory/
Ron Baird: https://ronbairdartist.com/
National Film Board of Canada: https://www.nfb.ca/ | https://www.instagram.com/onf_nfb/ | @nfb
Maurizio Cattelan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurizio_Cattelan | https://www.instagram.com/mauriziocattelan/
Francesco Perilli: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Perilli_(artista)
Joel Sears: https://joelsears.com/about-joel/
Alex Seton episode: https://installationartpodcast.com/alex-seton-024
The High Line: https://www.thehighline.org/ | https://www.instagram.com/highlinenyc
Fourth Plinth: https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/arts-and-culture/current-culture-projects/fourth-plinth-trafalgar-square
Anish Kapoor: https://anishkapoor.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/dirty_corner
Claes Oldenburg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claes_Oldenburg
Myfanwy MacLeod: https://www.myfanwymacleod.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/mittens_macleod_again/
Pasi Rauhala: https://pasirauhala.fi/ | https://www.instagram.com/pasirauhala/
Korkeasaari Zoo: https://korkeasaari.fi/en/ | https://www.instagram.com/korkeasaari/ | @Korkeasaareneläintarha
Amos Rex Museum: https://amosrex.fi/en/ | https://www.instagram.com/amoskonst/
Toronto Sculpture Garden: https://www.toronto.ca/explore-enjoy/history-art-culture/public-art/public-art-monuments-collection/comp-sculpture-garden/
National Gallery of Canada: https://www.gallery.ca/ | https://www.instagram.com/NatGalleryCan/ | @ngcmedia

The Installation Art Podcast is a show about people who love and work with the contemporary art medium of installation. The host Anastasia Parmson, an artist herself, interviews internationally renowned artists and arts workers about the intricacies and behind-the-scenes stories of creating and showing work that is site-specific, ephemeral, large scale or immersive.

🔔 Hit subscribe or follow wherever you’re listening to never miss a new episode.

📢 Follow us on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/installationartpodcast/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@installationartpodcast

📚 More information about the show and previous episodes: www.installationartpodcast.com
Your host Anastasia Parmson: www.anastasiaparmson.art https://www.instagram.com/anastasiaparmson.art/

I made a 3-minute listener survey to help shape the podcast's future. Your feedback genuinely matters.
Fill out here: https://forms.gle/qqHJrMXpsC9UYu2m7
Leave a voice message: https://www.speakpipe.com/installationartpodcast

Aaron T Stephan is a sculptor and public artist who is so interested in process and materials, he builds and installs nearly every project himself. His permanent installations can be found all over the USA and he has also created numberous gallery installations and performative events. His work has been acquired by institutions like Portland Museum of Art, John Michael Kohler Arts Center and Farnsworth Art Museum.
This conversation is candid, funny and full of hard-won insight. Aaron grew up on a self-sustaining hippie farm in rural Maine where self reliance, making and fixing things was expected. That relationship with objects, materials and technique has never left him and sits at the core of everything he makes.
What we cover:
• Proposing projects you have no idea how to execute and teaching yourself new fabrication techniques on the fly
• Performative works where he builds structures around audiences mid-dinner or installs work as a live performance on-site
• Navigating job sites where artists have essentially no power and the only leverage you have is that they want you to leave
• What it actually takes to work at public scale and establishing a practice that lets you fail before you're locked in
• Why the projects that nearly break you are always the best ones
• Advice to artists who are intrigued by public art
Aaron T Stephan lives and works in Portland, Maine. You can see his permanent installations across the US, for example Woven Lines at City of Altoona, IA, Paths Rising at Tampa International Airport, Point of View at Salt Palace Convention Center, Salt Lake City and more.
More information on his website: https://aarontstephan.com and his Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aarontstephan/
Watch Aaron’s TED talk performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=697QUP6iYw8

05:23 Childhood And Making
08:14 Art School And Wandering
09:46 How He Got Into Big Installations
11:12 Guardrail Knot Story
13:35 Torture And Magic
18:01 Building It Yourself
19:45 Funding Realities
24:48 Building Site Chaos
29:30 Hiring An Actor To Play Him At Openings
33:57 Public Art Hard Truths
38:59 Concrete Block Vortex Idea
47:13 Advice To Artists

Also mentioned in this episode:
Tampa International Airport: https://www.tampaairport.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/flyTPA | @FlyTPA
San Diego International Airport: https://www.san.org | https://www.instagram.com/sandiegoairport/
Texas Tech University: https://www.ttu.edu | https://www.instagram.com/texastech/
La Croix: https://www.lacroixwater.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/lacroixwater/
The Art Angle: https://news.artnet.com/multimedia/the-art-angle | https://www.instagram.com/artnet | @artnet
Purchase College: https://www.purchase.edu/ | https://www.instagram.com/purchasecollege/ | @PurchaseCollege
SUNY New Paltz: https://www.newpaltz.edu/ | https://www.instagram.com/sunynewpaltz | @sunynewpaltz
TEDxDirigo: https://www.tedxdirigo.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/tedxdirigo/
https://www.ted.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/ted | @TED
Maurizio Cattelan: https://www.perrotin.com/en/artists/maurizio-cattelan | https://www.instagram.com/mauriziocattelan/
Sears, Roebuck & Co: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears
Matthew Mazzotta: https://www.matthewmazzotta.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/matthewmazzotta/

The Installation Art Podcast is a show about people who love and work with the contemporary art medium of installation. The host Anastasia Parmson, an artist herself, interviews internationally renowned artists and arts workers about the intricacies and behind-the-scenes stories of creating and showing work that is site-specific, ephemeral, large scale or immersive.

🔔 Hit subscribe or follow wherever you’re listening to never miss a new episode.

📢 Follow us on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/installationartpodcast/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@installationartpodcast

📚 More information about the show and previous episodes: www.installationartpodcast.com
Your host Anastasia Parmson: www.anastasiaparmson.art https://www.instagram.com/anastasiaparmson.art/

I made a 3-minute listener survey to help shape the podcast's future. Your feedback genuinely matters.
Fill out here: https://forms.gle/qqHJrMXpsC9UYu2m7
Leave a voice message: https://www.speakpipe.com/installationartpodcast

Buy me a coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/installationartpodcast

Donna Dennis is one of the contemporary art pioneers who pushed sculpture toward the domain of architecture in the early 1970s. Her complex sculptural installations draw from overlooked fragments of American vernacular architecture.

This conversation dives into five decades of art-making in New York's evolving art world. We discuss how she taught herself carpentry, pipe bending and electrical work to build pieces based on her body's scale. How Virginia Woolf's "Shakespeare's sister" gave her the drive to make work even if no one ever saw it. How feminism shaped her False Front Hotels as self-portraits when she decided "women's lives were worthy of study." And why she refuses to use the word "practice" to describe her work.

Donna's work is held in collections including Brooklyn Museum, the Walker Art Center, and the Smithsonian American Art Museum.

Key moments from this episode:
• From failing at abstract painting in Paris to her first steps toward installation
• SoHo in the 1970s: how big raw loft spaces made it possible for artists to think big
The Holly Solomon Gallery story: from studio visit ("we're buying a country house") to "I'm starting a gallery and I want you to be in it"—then Whitney Biennial within two years
Venice Biennale 1982: realizing in April the show is in June, not 1984—quit your job, six assistants, work doubling in size
• A car roll into the river in slow motion, with Donna’s belongings inside – and how that inspired a public artwork that also suffered a tragic end
• ”A woman made this!?" The comment that captures why size mattered

Donna Dennis is based in Germantown, New York. You can learn more about her work and subscribe to her newsletter on her website: https://www.donnadennisart.com
And follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/donnadennisstudio

03:00 Hudson Valley Roots
04:07 Rapid Fire Warmup
05:06 Virginia Woolf Feminist Purpose
07:28 Night Studio Rituals
09:40 Early Art Calling
12:36 From Painting to Installations
47:28 Storage Risks
49:58 Hidden Vistas
51:19 Meaning And Mystery
54:34 Audience Boundaries
57:09 Vandalism Tale
01:04:01 Funding Choices and Final Reflections

Books mentioned:
Writing Toward Dawn: Journals 1969-1982: https://www.donnadennisart.com/publications/writing-toward-dawn
Donna Dennis: A Poet in Three Dimensions: https://www.donnadennisart.com/publications/donna-dennis-poet-in-three-dimensions

Also mentioned in this episode:
Petah Coyne: https://www.petahcoyne.org/ | https://www.instagram.com/petahcoyne/
Episode with Petah Coyne: https://installationartpodcast.com/petah-coyne-032
Robert Fulton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fulton
Virginia Woolf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Room_of_One's_Own
Gustave Doré: https://www.wikiart.org/en/gustave-dore
Ben Shahn “The Shape of Content”: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/284780.The_Shape_of_Content
Art Students League: https://www.artstudentsleague.org/ | https://www.instagram.com/aslnyc/ | @ArtStudentsLeagueNY
Martha Diamond: https://marthadiamondtrust.org/ |
Carleton College: https://www.carleton.edu/ | https://www.instagram.com/carletoncollege | @CarletonCollege
Claes Oldenburg: https://www.wikiart.org/en/claes-oldenburg
Jane Bowles “Two Serious Ladies”: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/215262.Two_Serious_Ladies
Deafman Glance by Robert Wilson: https://robertwilson.com/deafman-glance
History of Art by Horst Waldemar Janson: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2693801-history-of-art
Peter Schjeldahl: https://www.newyorker.com/contributors/peter-schjeldahl
The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/newyorkermag/ | @newyorker
The Poetry Project: https://www.poetryproject.org/ | https://www.instagram.com/poetry_project | @ThePoetryProject
Holly Solomon: https://bonhams.shorthandstories.com/the-collection-of-holly-solomon/
Andy Warhol: https://www.wikiart.org/en/andy-warhol
Denise Green: https://www.denisegreen.net/ |
Judy Pfaff: https://www.judypfaffstudio.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/judy.pfaff/
Whitney Biennial: https://whitney.org/exhibitions/the-biennial | https://www.instagram.com/whitneymuseum/ | @whitney_museum
Venice Biennale: https://www.labiennale.org/en | https://www.instagram.com/labiennale/ | @BiennaleChannel
O’Flaherty’s: https://www.donnadennisart.com/exhibitions/houses-and-hotels | https://www.instagram.com/oflahertys.nyc/

The Installation Art Podcast is a show about people who love and work with the contemporary art medium of installation. The host Anastasia Parmson, an artist herself, interviews internationally renowned artists and arts workers about the intricacies and behind-the-scenes stories of creating and showing work that is site-specific, ephemeral, large scale or immersive.

🔔 Hit subscribe or follow wherever you’re listening to never miss a new episode.

📢 Follow us on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/installationartpodcast/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@installationartpodcast

📚 More information about the show and previous episodes: www.installationartpodcast.com
Your host Anastasia Parmson: www.anastasiaparmson.art...

I made a 3-minute listener survey to help shape the podcast's future. Your feedback genuinely matters.
Fill out here: https://forms.gle/qqHJrMXpsC9UYu2m7
Leave a voice message: https://www.speakpipe.com/installationartpodcast

A candid review of the 25th Biennale of Sydney, spanning five venues across Greater Sydney: from a regional gallery that got everything right to an old Power Station full of missed opportunities.
I spent 10 hours at the media preview visiting all five venues: Lewers Penrith Regional Gallery, Chau Chak Wing Museum, Campbelltown Arts Centre, Art Gallery of New South Wales and White Bay Power Station. This isn't a comprehensive report, it’s my personal takeaway on what works (and what fails) when it comes to installation art at an international exhibition.
The 25th Biennale of Sydney, titled Rememory and curated by Hoor Al-Qasimi, demonstrates something that's come up again and again on this podcast: you can have prestigious artists, important topics and historic venues, but if the lighting is wrong, if there's nowhere to sit, if the space outshines the art… it doesn't work.
What I cover:
• Why Lewers: Penrith Regional Gallery was the standout venue
• Some highlighted works from each venue
• The 11-minute sound installation no one experiences beyond 15 seconds – and other accessibility challenges
• Documentation vs art – where is the line?
• A moment of comparison: do island Biennales create better experiences?

00:32 Biennale of Sydney Facts
02:57 Penrith Gallery Highlight
05:32 Everyone’s Favorite Installation
08:06 Chau Chak Wing Museum
10:31 Campbelltown Art Centre - Documentary Debate
13:21 Art Gallery of NSW Picks
17:12 White Bay Venue Challenges
22:26 Video Overload Critique
26:32 Installation Missteps
32:48 Final Takeaways

Biennale of Sydney 2026: Rememory is on view until 14 June 2026, free entry
More info: https://www.biennaleofsydney.art/

Review by art critic Christopher Allen: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/culture/worse-than-anticipated-how-the-sydney-biennale-became-a-site-of-mediocrity-and-irrelevance/news-story/efd37fe54c91806748fd89fda76f65f6

Also mentioned in this episode:
Biennale of Sydney: https://www.biennaleofsydney.art/ | https://www.instagram.com/biennalesydney/ | @biennaleofsydney
Venice Biennale episode: https://installationartpodcast.com/bonus-013
Helsinki Biennial episode: https://installationartpodcast.com/bonus-039
Lewers: Pentrith Regional Art Gallery: https://www.penrithregionalgallery.com.au/ | https://www.instagram.com/penrithregionalgallery/
Nora Adwan: https://noraadwan.com/home.html | https://www.instagram.com/adwan.nora/
Chau Chak Wing Museum: https://www.sydney.edu.au/museum/ | https://www.instagram.com/ccwm_sydney/
Michael Dagostino: https://www.sydney.edu.au/museum/about-us/our-people.html
Ema Shin: https://emashin.org/home.html | https://www.instagram.com/ema.shin/
Tuan Andrew Nguyen: https://www.tuanandrewnguyen.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/tuan.andrew.nguyen/
Cambelltown Arts Centre: https://www.campbelltownartscentre.com.au/Home | https://www.instagram.com/campbelltownartscentre/ | @campbelltownartscentre8258
Hoor Al-Qasimi: https://www.biennaleofsydney.art/hoor-al-qasimi/ | https://www.instagram.com/hooralq/
Joana Hadjithomas & Khalil Joreige: https://hadjithomasjoreige.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/studiohadjithomasjoreige/
Art Gallery of NSW: https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/
Kuba Dorabialski: https://www.kubadorabialski.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/kubadora/
Mia Wasikowska: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1985859/ | https://www.instagram.com/mia_wasikowska_/
Taysir Batniji: https://www.taysirbatniji.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/taysir_batniji/
Kapwani Kiwanga: https://www.kapwanikiwanga.org/
Ron Mueck: https://ropac.net/artists/63-ron-mueck/ | https://www.instagram.com/ronmueckart/
Mike Hewson: https://mikehewson.co.nz/ | https://www.instagram.com/mikehewson/
MCA: https://www.mca.com.au/ | https://www.instagram.com/mca_australia | @mcaaustralia
White Bay Power Station: https://www.whitebaypowerstation.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/whitebaypowerstation/
Christopher Allen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Allen_(critic)
Cockatoo Island: https://www.cockatooisland.gov.au/en/ | https://www.instagram.com/harbourtrust/ | @HarbourTrust2088
Frank Sweeney: https://franksweeney.art/ | https://www.instagram.com/frankbeee/
Hui Ye: https://yehui.org/ | https://www.instagram.com/huiyeist/

The Installation Art Podcast is a show about people who love and work with the contemporary art medium of installation. The host...

Listener feedback form: https://forms.gle/T6ywdFawXWKLu1UR6
Leave a voice message: https://www.speakpipe.com/installationartpodcast

A conversation with New Zealand artist Mike Hewson, recorded inside his monumental installation The Key's Under the Mat at the Art Gallery of New South Wales – a 2,500 square meter underground park complete with working sauna, laundromat, barbecues, DJ booth, recording studio and playground that's broken every visitor record the gallery has ever seen.
Mike's practice straddles the complex lines between art, infrastructure and public liability. He designs playgrounds that councils don't know how to regulate, builds permanent public sculptures that must survive Australian weather conditions and human interference and he takes on legal exposure that would terrify most artists, all while fighting the perception that making functional, interactive work is somehow "beneath" serious art.

Key insights from this episode:
• The Christchurch earthquake moment: barefoot in a broken city, wondering whether he should keep pursuing art
• Project backlash: dealing with public anger, going into debt on his first major commission and lessons learned
• Strategic pivot: setting a new precedent as an artist-engineer
• True scope of the AGNSW project and how he sourced materials for it
• Hard truth and advice: burnout is not a sustainable business model

Mike Hewson is a New Zealand artist based in Sydney. You can find out more about his work on his website https://mikehewson.co.nz/ and follow him on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikehewson
See his work in person:
The Key's Under the Mat at AGNSW Tank (open until August 2026) https://mikehewson.co.nz/2025/10/the-keys-under-the-mat
Coal Loader Palm Grove is a permanent public installation at Sydney Fish Markets: https://mikehewson.co.nz/2026/1/coal-loader-palm-grove
Rocks on Wheels public art playground in Soutbank, Naarm (Melbourne): https://mikehewson.co.nz/2022/11/rocks-on-wheels
Pockets Park in Pioneers Memorial Park, Leichhardt NSW: https://mikehewson.co.nz/2022/2/pockets-park
St Peters Fences at Simpson Park, St Peters NSW: https://mikehewson.co.nz/2020/9/st-peters-fences
Illawarra Placed Landscape at Crown Street Mall, Wollongong NSW: https://mikehewson.co.nz/2017/11/illawarra-placed-landscape

02:55 Work Life Balance Reality
05:35 Growing Up in Rural NZ
08:02 From Painting to Installations
19:40 Building Playgrounds as Art
27:37 Precarious Look Safe Design
32:32 Sourcing Found Materials
40:33 Maintenance and Record Crowds
45:41 Afterlife and Financial Reality
58:51 Geopets Art Fair Hack
01:07:17 Contracts, Insurance and Codes
01:20:51 Hard Truths And Advice
01:25:51 After The Mammoth Show

Also mentioned in this episode:
Christchurch earthquake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Christchurch_earthquake
JR: https://www.jr-art.net/ | https://www.instagram.com/jr/
Columbia University: https://www.columbia.edu/ | https://www.instagram.com/columbia/ | @columbia
Sarah Sze: https://www.sarahsze.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/sarahszestudio
Lloyd’s: https://www.lloyds.com/australia | https://www.instagram.com/lloydsoflondon/ | @Lloydsinsurance
Infrastructure NSW: https://www.infrastructure.nsw.gov.au/ |
Gumtree: https://www.gumtree.com.au/ | https://www.instagram.com/gumtreeaus | @gumtreeaustralia
Lett Thomas Gallery: https://lett-thomas.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/michaellett | https://www.instagram.com/lettthomasgallery
Rirkrit Tiravanija: https://www.davidzwirner.com/artists/rirkrit-tiravanija | https://www.instagram.com/rirkrit_team
Sydney Fish Market: https://www.sydneyfishmarket.com.au/

Images courtesy of the artist and Art Gallery of NSW

The Installation Art Podcast is a show about people who love and work with the contemporary art medium of installation. The host Anastasia Parmson, an artist herself, interviews internationally renowned artists and arts workers about the intricacies and behind-the-scenes stories of creating and showing work that is site-specific, ephemeral, large scale or immersive.

🔔 Hit subscribe or follow wherever you’re listening to never miss a new episode.

📢 Follow us on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/installationartpodcast/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@installationartpodcast

📚 More information about the show and previous episodes: www.installationartpodcast.com
Your host Anastasia Parmson: www.anastasiaparmson.art https://www.instagram.com/anastasiaparmson.art/