Below the Surface

Disclaimers in our reports. Useless fluff or necessary ass covering? 
Who better to discuss this than Sarah Mansfield (LinkedIn) who is returning to Below the Surface and almost immediately raises the bar for all future lawyer and engineer jokes. Sarah, Gunnar and Hammond tackle P&O cruise insults, ALGA glory, puppies, and why a useful “How to Read This Report” section may be better than hiding AI created legal fog at the back.
Other subjects: Report reliance, executive summaries, confused clients, angry clients, and why “nobody other than the Client can rely on this report” is not quite the magic spell consultants hope it is (spoiler: don't bother with that statement).
Sarah's first appearance on BTS
HWLE Lawyers
H2coco poppers pulled from Woolies shelves due to plastic straws - Inside Waste
Coal companies to reap billions more in taxpayer diesel subsidies as Labor approves new mining 
The episode was recorded on 16 June 2026
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

In Episode #30 The Duplicate, Gunnar famously declared that duplicate soil samples in heterogeneous fill are useless. Risk assessor Belle Casement of Terravale Consulting heard the episode… and decided Gunnar needed correcting. 😲
In this nerd-out episode, they discuss QA/QC, dodgy duplicates, lab uncertainty, conservative risk assessments, and whether the typical QC sections in contaminated land reports are actually science or just expensive pseudo scientific fluff we do to please regulators. 
Gunnar briefly ponders writing his own version of the ASC NEPM and re-introduces the term Quality Theatre in hope of getting it officially introduced into the Miriam Webster next year. 
They also get into lead, vapours, CRM samples, rinsates, trip blanks and upper confidence limits, with a completely unnecessary but somehow relevant detour into Henry VIII and Scientology. Nobody backs down, several sacred cows get kicked over, while Hammond tries hard to keep the two fighters apart and sometimes even dares to enter the ring himself. 

BTS Episode #30: The Duplicate - the OG duplicate episode
BTS Episode #11: he Sampling Evolution - Ross McFarland
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Hammond relives his time as a representative for Australia in international biodiversity negotiations at COP13 of the Convention on Biological Diversity. But before that a few updates, a hint for auditors and Gunnar almost completely loses it while talking about one of the latest EPA announcements leading to a most epic Gu-rant.
Links:
Clarence Coal mine penalty
Constitutional heads of power.
'Getting to Yes'.
Never Split the Difference.
Rapport - The Four Ways to Read People.
Sam Harris | #132 - Freeing the Hostages with Chris Voss
Professional AS Soils Short Courses - Southern Cross University
Recorded on 2 April 2026
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Microplastics: The Invisible Problem (or is it?)
Brooke Kelly from Reditus joins Gunnar and James to unpack microplastics. From penguin carcasses and seal scat (that's science code for poo) to human exposure, they explore where microplastics come from, how they are measured, and why they are everywhere. There is a lot of hype surrounding microplastics and some evidence of ecological harm exists, but human health impacts remain largely observational. They tackle analytical limitations, media-driven panic versus scientific uncertainty, and the parallels with PFAS. 
The episode lands on a pragmatic note: while the science evolves, a precautionary approach and simple exposure reduction strategies are worth considering.
Links from the episode:
NEJM: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2309822
https://shirtloadsofscience.libsyn.com/prof-michaela-lucas-465
Broadscale microplastic assessment | EPA
https://aahms.org/publications/microplastics-precaution-and-biomonitoring-needed/
https://theconversation.com/scientists-may-be-overestimating-the-amount-of-microplastics-in-the-environment-and-the-culprit-is-lab-gloves-258545
Below the Surface: The PFAS Health Advice
Recorded on 17 April 2026
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Artificial intelligence has gone from curiosity to daily tool almost overnight. 
In this episode, Gunnar and James sit down with AI consultant Alex Rankin who spent over 25 years in senior roles across the Australian Public Service before turning her focus to helping environmental consultancies figure out where AI actually fits into their workflows. Together they cut through the hype and talk about what AI can actually do for environmental professionals right now.
In this episode:
What LLMs, generative AI, agentic AI, and AGI actually mean, and which ones matter for your practice right now
Why AI is better thought of as a fast intern than a consultant (for now)
What environmental consultants are actually using AI for (and what they're still struggling with)
The hallucination problem (Gunnar calls it lying) and the cross-checking trick that helps
How to train an AI tool and what "training" actually means in practice
A practical framework for dipping a toe in without blowing your budget or your deadline
Why Claude, ChatGPT, and Gemini are not interchangeable and when to use which
This episode was recorded on 6 March 2026.
Book a meeting with Alex: https://meetings-ap1.hubspot.com/a/driftwood-discovery
ALGA launches Special Interest Group for AI
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond