Below the Surface

Who keeps environmental professionals honest, and what happens when they get it wrong?
Gunnar and James open with a deceptively simple question: would you take a guaranteed $50,000 or risk it on a coin toss for $1 million? Their answers lead to a revealing conversation about risk, certainty, running a business and how personal circumstances shape financial decisions.
Then the episode switches to newly appointed EIANZ President Fiona Gainsford about the growing influence of professional certification in the environmental industry. A frank discussion about professionalism, accountability and who sets the standards for the environmental industry.
They discuss ethics, complaints and disciplinary action, conflicts of interest, misuse of certification seals, and whether the CEnvP system now holds considerable power over environmental professionals and their careers.
They also push Fiona on some pointed questions: why the EIANZ stayed quiet during the asbestos in mulch saga, whether certification seals are vulnerable to misuse, how conflicts of interest are handled in practice, and whether an unpaid volunteer board should hold this much sway over people's livelihoods. 

BBC Audio | More or Less | Would you take £50,000 or a 50/50 chance of £1m?
Proposed AS ISO 18400-106 Soil Quality – Sampling
Tony Albert - Wikipedia
Tony Albert: Not a Souvenir | MCA Australia
www.eianz.org
www.cenvp.org
EIANZ peer review guidelines
Episode #14 The Honest Truth
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Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

What does a career in the environmental industry actually look like, and how do you know when it is time for a change? That change can range from minor adjustment in your life and your expectations and goals to a big one like changing jobs or even careers altogether.

Gunnar and Hammond are joined by career coach Kellie Guenther to discuss career pathways, professional development, leadership, mentoring and workplace culture. 
They also explore the pressures facing young professionals, why the first job can shape an entire career, and why working in the environmental industry may involve fewer dolphins and butterflies than expected. 

Links:
EPA Updates: Regulatory, licensing, policy and legislative updates | EPA 
PFAS Position Statement 
Asbestos in Recovered Fines
EPA Response to OCSE paper
Free Asbestos Waste Disposal for households

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Disclaimers in our reports. Useless fluff or necessary ass covering? 
Who better to discuss this than Sarah Mansfield (LinkedIn) who is returning to Below the Surface and almost immediately raises the bar for all future lawyer and engineer jokes. Sarah, Gunnar and Hammond tackle P&O cruise insults, ALGA glory, puppies, and why a useful “How to Read This Report” section may be better than hiding AI created legal fog at the back.
Other subjects: Report reliance, executive summaries, confused clients, angry clients, and why “nobody other than the Client can rely on this report” is not quite the magic spell consultants hope it is (spoiler: don't bother with that statement).
Sarah's first appearance on BTS
HWLE Lawyers
H2coco poppers pulled from Woolies shelves due to plastic straws - Inside Waste
Coal companies to reap billions more in taxpayer diesel subsidies as Labor approves new mining 
The episode was recorded on 16 June 2026
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

In Episode #30 The Duplicate, Gunnar famously declared that duplicate soil samples in heterogeneous fill are useless. Risk assessor Belle Casement of Terravale Consulting heard the episode… and decided Gunnar needed correcting. 😲
In this nerd-out episode, they discuss QA/QC, dodgy duplicates, lab uncertainty, conservative risk assessments, and whether the typical QC sections in contaminated land reports are actually science or just expensive pseudo scientific fluff we do to please regulators. 
Gunnar briefly ponders writing his own version of the ASC NEPM and re-introduces the term Quality Theatre in hope of getting it officially introduced into the Miriam Webster next year. 
They also get into lead, vapours, CRM samples, rinsates, trip blanks and upper confidence limits, with a completely unnecessary but somehow relevant detour into Henry VIII and Scientology. Nobody backs down, several sacred cows get kicked over, while Hammond tries hard to keep the two fighters apart and sometimes even dares to enter the ring himself. 

BTS Episode #30: The Duplicate - the OG duplicate episode
BTS Episode #11: he Sampling Evolution - Ross McFarland
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Hammond relives his time as a representative for Australia in international biodiversity negotiations at COP13 of the Convention on Biological Diversity. But before that a few updates, a hint for auditors and Gunnar almost completely loses it while talking about one of the latest EPA announcements leading to a most epic Gu-rant.
Links:
Clarence Coal mine penalty
Constitutional heads of power.
'Getting to Yes'.
Never Split the Difference.
Rapport - The Four Ways to Read People.
Sam Harris | #132 - Freeing the Hostages with Chris Voss
Professional AS Soils Short Courses - Southern Cross University
Recorded on 2 April 2026
Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au
https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast
The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. 

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond