Interior Integration for Catholics

Deification: A secret in the Catholic Church that really shouldn’t be a secret.  Join Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr Matthew Tsakanikas, professor of theology at Christendom College, and Dr. Peter for a wide-ranging discussion of the glory, the adventure, the awe of partaking of God’s divine nature with the entirety of our being – our hearts, souls, minds, bodies, innermost selves, and all our parts, from a perspective informed by Internal Family Systems and grounded in a Catholic anthropology and metaphysics.  What does it really mean for all of you to be a beloved little son or beloved little daughter of God?  

Books by Dr. Matthew Tsakanikas:
2025 A Catechesis on Deification, Transfiguration & the Luminous Mysteries: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DX1HZMLM/
2026 Meditations on Deification and the Luminous Mysteries: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0GWVYQGPP

Check out our sister podcast:  https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureForYourInnerOutcasts 

The Resilient Catholics Community is about to reopen for new members in June. If you are a Catholic who wants to overcome the natural level obstacles to sharing deeply in God's divine nature as his beloved little son or beloved little daughter, and are into parts and systems thinking, consider applying to the RCC at www.soulsandhearts.com/rcc.

Online Workshop for those Catholic Formators new to IFS, “Catholic Parts Work in Human Formation” will be on June 10, 2026 from 8:00 PM to 9:30 PM Eastern, register at https://members.soulsandhearts.com/Catholic-parts-work

The Formation for Formators Retreat is August 10-13, 2026 in Bloomington Indiana.  The theme is “Authentic Being and Authentic Relating.” This retreat focuses on you finding and loving you in more of your parts, including parts you have not yet encountered – your exiles – more at www.soulsandhearts.com/FFF  

Conversation Hours with Dr. Peter are every Tuesday and Thursday from 4:30 PM to 5:30 PM Eastern Time on his cell at 317.567.9594 – it’s an opportunity to discuss themes from this podcat or any of the materials generated by Souls and Hearts.  

Key Moments

12:00 What is deification/theosis/divinization?  Being made a son or daughter of God means sharing in God’s nature.  
15:00  Ephesians chapter 1 reveals God’s plan from before the foundation of the world to makes us sons in the Son.  
16:52  Dr. Gerry’s objections to the IFS conceptualization of “Self”
21:01 The image of God within us is dynamic – the “capax Dei” 
21:50  How Adam and Eve lost their interior integration with the Fall and how Jesus opens the way for re-integration.
27:05  Satan to Adam and Eve “Ye shall become like gods….” 
30:30  How do we receive the love of God?  
34:20  The internal battle: “Parts of me are drawn to receive God’s love and parts of me are not…”
41:19 The necessity of entering into a loving relationship with Jesus for interior integration
43:40  God’s wills that you flourish in all domains and in all your parts
48:40  Divinization and the human body
53:00  Divinization is “too hot to handle” for many Christians – but it’s the essential framework for all of the Catholic life, it’s the essential story that holds all the other stories.  
1:02:00 The importance of accepting all of my parts as they are right now.  God accepts all parts as they are, so I need to as well.  Acceptance of a part does not mean endorsing that part’s disordered desires, impulses, and emotions
1:08:35  Sometimes parts find it easier to tolerate being loved by someone other than God at first, and that lesser loves can help parts open up to God’s direct love
1:25:01  Dr. Tsakanikas’ key takeaway:  Love makes the lover want to make the beloved equal to himself,
1:26:28  Dr, Gerry’s takeaway:  It’s important for us to evangelize each of our own parts
1:27:54  Dr. Peter’s takeaway:  Real love is given freely. But in our fallen human states, in our fallen human condition, it's not received without a cost to our parts.

Four Catholic therapists and four Catholic philosophers take on the most frequently asked metaphysical questions about grounding Internal Family Systems in a Catholic worldview.  Join Elizabeth Galanti, Dr. Anthony Flood, Dr. Andrea Messineo, Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr. Monty De La Torre, Fr. Thomas Berg, and Dr. Peter Malinoski for a spirited discussion of: 1) the relationship between IFS and the Catholic Church; 2) problems with the IFS conceptualization of “Self’; 3) the importance of the Catholic IFS clinician staying true to the teachings of the Church; 4) distinguishing between parts and demons in IFS work; 5) how can we prevent parts work from opening the door to demons? 6) what does it mean to say that all parts are good?; 7) how does ordered self-love differ from selfishness?; 8) is there a danger of creating an endless nesting of parts within parts within parts, an “infinite regress” of parts?; and 9) How does the Catholic understanding of conscience related to parts in IFS?  

Fr. Thomas Berg’s books: 

Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hurting-in-the-church-fr-thomas-berg/1124597873

Choosing Forgiveness: Unleash the Power of God's Gracee: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-forgiveness-fr-thomas-berg/1140395384?ean=9781681926537 

Dr. Andrea Messineo’s book “Alone in Church”: https://www.amazon.com/ALONE-CHURCH-Andrea-Messineo/dp/1732054290

Check out Dr. Messineo’s website at Andreamessineolpcc.com

Dr. Anthony Flood’s books: 

The Root of Friendship: Self-Love and Self-Governance in Aquinas https://www.cuapress.org/9780813226057/the-root-of-friendship/ 

The Metaphysical Foundations of Love: Aquinas on Participation, Unity, and Union: https://www.cuapress.org/9780813234205/the-metaphysical-foundations-of-love/

Dr. Gerry Crete’s book, “Litanies of the Heart”: https://www.amazon.com/Litanies-Heart-Gerry-Ken-Crete-ebook/dp/B0CSKSCMPP?ref_=ast_author_mpb

Elizabeth Galanti’s practice:  https://www.elizabethgalanti.com/

Dr. Monty De La Torre’s recent reflections:  

https://www.soulsandhearts.com/blog/the-metaphysics-of-parts-part-i-the-soul-the-faculties-and-the-senses/

https://www.soulsandhearts.com/blog/intellect-knowledge-judgement-reasoning-and-parts-the-metaphysics-of-parts-part-ii/

Check out our Resilient Catholics Community (RCC) here:  https://www.soulsandhearts.com/rcc

Check out our Formation for Formators (FFF) Community here: https://www.soulsandhearts.com/fff

Key moments

12:28  "What does the Catholic Church have to say about IFS, and is IFS OK for Catholics?" "How can we make sure that our IFS-informed parts work is fully Catholic?”
19:50  Problems with the IFS conceptualization of “Self” and how to modify the idea of the inmost self so that it harmonizes with a Catholic understanding of the human person
23:30  The importance of the IFS Catholic clinician staying true to all Catholic doctrine
25:20   "How can I tell if I'm connecting with a part or a with a demon?  How do we keep our parts work from creating vulnerabilities toward demonic influences?"
35:55  "Why do we say in IFS that there are no bad parts, that all parts are welcome? It certainly seems that some of my parts are urging me to do bad or sinful things, and that I have to resist them."
50:00  "From a parts perspective, how does ordered self-love differ from selfishness?"
59:00  According to St. Thomas Aquinas, there is no part of you that by itself has hegemony over the role of goodness. Each part has a goodness or proper functioning that is nested in the good of the person as a whole. That is why when willing goods to oneself, you must will goods in a way that is respectful of all of you, not just some of you.
1:06:50  "What if I create an endless number of parts? Or, a part, that has a part, that has a part, etc...? "  -- the “infinite regress” of parts
1:21:50 How does the Catholic understanding of conscience related to parts in IFS?

Moral theologian Fr. Thomas Berg and philosopher and therapist Dr. Andrea Messineo take on the topic of personal conscience and parts work through a Catholic lens.  We explore the relationships among conscience, parts, the innermost self, the intellect, the will, impulses, and desires.  We address concupiscence and parts, and offer specific examples.  Join us for a fascinating exploration of conscience and parts.  

Check out these other episodes:

https://youtu.be/bw-zUp2h_TA
https://youtu.be/f5MNCaCJLyc
https://youtu.be/Isxmlx8pQAs

Dr. Peter’s advanced group for Catholic formators: Relating Wholeheartedly with God in Prayer, Mondays from 10:00 AM to 11:30 AM Eastern starting on March 9, 2026.  Find out more here:  https://members.soulsandhearts.com/registration

Dr. Gerry’s advanced group for Catholic formators: Surviving, Healing, Thriving, and Flourishing - A Path To Greater Integration  Wednesdays from 10:00 AM to 11:30 AM Eastern, starting on March 11, 2026

Fr. Thomas Berg’s books: 
Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hurting-in-the-church-fr-thomas-berg/1124597873
Choosing Forgiveness: Unleash the Power of God's Grace: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-forgiveness-fr-thomas-berg/1140395384?ean=9781681926537
Dr. Andrea Messineo’s book, Alone in Church: https://www.amazon.com/ALONE-CHURCH-Andrea-Messineo/dp/1732054290
Check out Dr. Messineo’s website at andreamessineolpcc.com

Key moments:

16:15 What are the relationships among one's innermost self, one's parts, and one's conscience?
21:25  St. Thomas Aquinas’ emphasis on prudence
23:30  How parts with emotions have a role in a well-formed conscience and the innermost self does not have a “localized omniscience.”  
31:30 What are the relationships among parts and the faculties of the intellect and the will?
37:00 Parts are closely connected with impulses and desires, driving agendas
40:00  What about addictions, obsessions, and compulsions?
45:40  Can a person possess a virtue, but parts of that person not have access to that virtue?
56:20  Does the innermost self need any formation from others, or is it complete, as Richard Schwartz maintains?
1:08:00 Causal chains that lead to morally problematic behaviors
1:17:20  What is concupiscence and does it always need to be lodged in a part?

Catholic philosopher Dr. Andrea Messineo and moral theologian Fr. Thomas Berg guide us in moral reasoning from a parts perspective, grounded in Alasdair MacIntyre’s Thomistic thought. Join us as we romp through understanding the development of moral reasoning informed by IFS, “values clarification”, Winnicott’s object relations model, the importance of unblending and recollection for clarity in moral reasoning, the necessity of dependence on others, the proper use and the misuse of penance and mortification, how accepting a part does not mean endorsing that part’s impulses and desires, and so much more. 
Fr. Thomas Berg’s books: 
Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hurting-in-the-church-fr-thomas-berg/1124597873 
Choosing Forgiveness: Unleash the Power of God's Grace: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-forgiveness-fr-thomas-berg/1140395384?ean=9781681926537 
Dr. Andrea Messineo’s book “Alone in Church”: https://www.amazon.com/ALONE-CHURCH-Andrea-Messineo/dp/1732054290 Check out Dr. 
Messineo’s website at Andreamessineolpcc.com 
If you want to flourish in loving God, your neighbor, and yourself, with other Catholics in a structured program informed by Internal Family Systems and grounded in a Catholic worldview, check out the Resilient Catholics Community here: https://soulsandhearts.com/rcc and check out our informational video here: https://vimeo.com/1160648485/1d2c052338?fl=ip&fe=ec 
New groups are forming for Catholic formators – counselors, coaches, spiritual directors, priests, and others who individually accompany others in their formation are welcome to join our Formation for Formators community. Details are here: https://soulsandhearts.com/fff

You need to love yourself properly to love others in an ordered way. How can we understand St. Thomas Aquinas' insistence on us governing our passions from an IFS perspective in a way that loves our passionate parts?  How can we be detached from worldly goods?  Do saints get blended with their parts?  Are there benefits to some kinds of blending with parts?  How can we frame the Theology of the Body to resonate more with women's concerns?  How can we consider both errors of commission vs. errors of omission in parts work? What about the importance of mercy, the centrality of love, the requirement of interior integration in for human formation through an Internal Family Systems lens, grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person?  Join Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr. Peter Martin, and Dr. Peter Malinoski take these questions and more in this episode with a live audience.