Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

✨ "It's not the breed, it's the brain." – Nik Lewis 
Rupert Isaacson speaks with Nik Lewis of Horses R Us NZ, an equine facilitated learning program near Taupo in the Central North Island of New Zealand. For about eight years, Horses R Us has worked with young people and adults, including neurodiverse clients and clients working on social-emotional goals or riding, with no set parameters. As Nik puts it, if they don't know something, they go and find out.
What makes the program distinctive is how little of the session is fixed. Nik describes working with whoever "rocks in on the day," keeping an end goal while letting the route change. Clients stay matched with one horse, each with a plan B horse, and in one story a 29-year-old non-verbal client walks and talks a jumpy Thoroughbred calm, reversing the usual roles of helper and helped. Her horses live in herds outdoors around the clock, and they get their own outlet: Nik and her horses also hunt and jump wire fences.
The conversation covers Nik's bareback childhood in rural New Zealand, her path from teacher aide and classroom teacher to burnout in 2015, her EAGALA training, her mentorship with a social worker, and the 2018 leap into running the program full time. It also looks at how Māori tikanga, language, Matariki and Māori stories find their way into sessions, and where story and sense of place could take the work next. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon.
If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode
How Nik's "if we don't know, we go and find out" approach shapes a program with no set parameters
Why Nik links the Kiwi "number eight wire" mentality to a flexible, can-do way of working
What Nik sees as the difference between outcome-focused and client-focused work, based on her understanding of RDA
How a client and a horse can swap roles, with the client becoming the horse's regulator
Why clients stay matched with one horse, and how a plan B horse and horse care days keep the relationship going
What takiwatanga, the Māori word for autistic, means: in their own time and space
How Nik moved from teaching burnout through EAGALA training and a social worker mentorship to leaving a secure income in 2018
What Nik found limiting about the EAGALA triangle when she trained, and how she says the model has since evolved
How hunting and jumping wire fences shaped Nik's riding, and why she says it is the brain, not the breed, that counts in the hunt field
Why Nik's horses get hunting weekends as an outlet, and how Rupert describes rotating therapy horses through varied work
How Nik keeps her horses in outdoor herds around the clock and lets them "be horses"
How Nik uses volcano language to help younger children notice what their bodies feel before an outburst
How Māori tikanga, language, Matariki and stories such as Tangaroa show up in Nik's sessions
Why Rupert suggests story and sense of place could be a next step for the work
 ✨ "It's not the breed, it's the brain." – Nik Lewis 
04:34 Nik reaches for "number eight wire," the Kiwi habit of fixing things with whatever is at hand, and Rupert answers with the Afrikaans saying "Ons sal 'n plan maak" (we'll make a plan).
11:17 Nik explains takiwatanga, the Māori word for autistic, which translates as "in their own time and space," and Rupert asks her to say it again so he can write it down.
18:10 A 29-year-old non-verbal client takes a jumpy Thoroughbred into the round pen while a farmer moves cows nearby, and walks and talks with him until he settles.
21:45 Nik explains that each client stays matched with one horse, that most have a plan B horse, and that a horse with an abscess turns the session into a horse care day.
54:13 Nik describes growing up jumping eight-wire dry stock fences with battens, and at 1:05:05 explains why she was taught that wire is safer than solid fences.
1:06:55 Rupert recalls the Horse Boy trail ride challenge with a big teddy bear in front of the rider, and how Nik took it a step further and hunted over wire fences with the teddy bear.
1:09:18 Asked what makes a good hunt horse, Nik says it is the brain, not the breed, and that you can't train for the atmosphere of the hunt field at home.
1:44:30 Nik talks about the volcanoes she uses with younger children to name what happens in the belly, the toes and the head before the mouth starts.
2:01:45 Nik links a "rompy stompy" child to the god Tangaroa and to nearby Ruapehu, which spits out every now and then.
2:15:49 Nik shares how her program celebrates weirdness, including the young client who first looked at rope reins for a week and then wouldn't let go of them.
📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned
Nik Lewis – Horses R Us NZ Website: https://horsesrusnz.com
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
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📊 Affiliate Disclosure
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

Rupert Isaacson speaks with Dr. Amanda Minervini, founder of  EGLHE (Equine Guided Learning And Healing Experience), a nonprofit equine program in Colorado Springs, and professor at Colorado College.
 EGLHE began taking shape during the pandemic, in response to a worsening mental health crisis. It was built around the preferences of one horse: Jimmy, an off-the-track Thoroughbred who raced as a stallion, was not gelded until after age nine, and was labeled dangerous. Originally intended for Amanda's college students, the program is now open to everyone. It brings together consent-based horsemanship, classical in-hand work, liberty, scent work, and good management, with a core belief that horses have a voice and that humans don't have to be in charge.
The conversation walks through how Amanda layers a session so that a horse can safely run free through the woods with people who have never been near a horse, how scent work for horses can build confidence in a spooky horse, and why a horse must always be regulated enough to learn. Amanda also shares what she observed with the medicine paint horses at a Lakota Sun Dance, and she and Rupert explore the sacred in equine-assisted work, consciousness, Saint Francis of Assisi, and how zooanthropology helps her bridge methods rather than choose just one.

✨ "I'm trying to show humans that they don't have to be in charge with horses, that it can be a shared enterprise." – Dr. Amanda Minervini

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode
What  EGLHE is, and why Amanda started it in response to the mental health crisis during the pandemic
How Jimmy, an off-the-track Thoroughbred labeled "dangerous," became the horse  EGLHE was built around
Why good management (herd life, a big pasture, free-choice hay) was the foundation of Jimmy's change
How Amanda layers a session, from herd observation to arena liberty work to free movement in the woods
Why she never assumes, and works with the horse she has on that day
What scent work for horses is, and how to progress from visible treats in an arena to open searching on the trail
Why olfactory seeking work may build curiosity and confidence in spooky horses
Why a horse must be regulated enough to learn, and what to do when fear is too big
How novel movement and BDNF connect horse wellbeing, human focus, and Amanda's own 17 years of kung fu
What Amanda observed about the medicine paint horses and their caretakers at a Lakota Sun Dance
How Saint Francis of Assisi and the idea of humans as "holobiomes" shape Amanda's view of connection
How a zooanthropology lens helps Amanda act as a bridge between methods, disciplines, and cultures
Why Rupert believes the synthesis of many methods is the next generation of equine-assisted work
🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode
07:38 Amanda describes Jimmy's past: a stallion on the track, gelded after age nine, labeled dangerous, yet the only one he ever hurt was himself.
11:15 A grieving paint mare in her late 20s, who had lost her best friend days earlier, crosses the ranch uninvited and canters alongside the group.
13:39 Amanda breaks down the two-and-a-half-hour session: herd observation, arena liberty with a ball and tarp, a lead-line walk, then liberty in the woods.
22:14 Amanda credits 17 years of kung fu with giving her the focus to succeed in graduate school.
36:00 From treats on barrel tops to hidden scents to scattered finds on the trail, Amanda outlines how scent work progresses.
37:32 Riding Jimmy with a rein keeper, Amanda lets him search freely, and he chooses to go over poles without being asked.
44:39 Amanda's golden rule: there is no learning in fear, and she has promised her horses she will never put them in a freak-out situation.
53:37 Amanda describes students repeating in post-session questionnaires that they felt more balanced, more focused, and even more willing to do homework.
1:19:40 Amanda spends two days with the Sun Dance's medicine paint horses and sees them grow eager when it's time for their role.
1:23:37 Rupert recalls his horse Clue leaving the herd to sniff and lick a child in a wheelchair who had drowned and seemed unresponsive, and the child becoming responsive.
1:40:54 Rupert tells how his uncle, a pathologist, explained why most people misunderstand the placebo effect.
1:59:28 Rupert shares that a new Horse Boy center is opening in County Cork, Ireland, with the prime minister turning the sod.
📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned
Dr. Amanda Minervini – Professor, Colorado College; Founder,  EGLHE (Equine Guided Learning And Healing Experience) https://amandaminervini.weebly.com
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
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https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
📊 Affiliate Disclosure
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I think the horse and the animal is kind of an anchor that keeps you in the present." – Krisztina Molnar
Deep in the forest near Debrecen in eastern Hungary, a six-year-old foundation has become a home for animal-assisted therapy of every kind: clinical equine-assisted psychotherapy, work with neurodivergent children, family therapy, group therapy for children, adolescents and parents, and sessions for adults, alongside a small riding school, dressage and a vaulting team. Clinical psychologist Krisztina Molnar leads its clinical work with children and parents, supported by a team, 14 horses and three therapy dogs.
The original plan was four to six horses and a quiet life in her "fairy forest." Instead, the foundation grew one family, one colleague and one need at a time, guided by a single principle: keep running something only as long as it serves everyone in the story, meaning the clients, the animals and the therapists. Along the way the forest itself became a therapeutic tool, complete with a wishing forest, a mound where problems can be blown away, and a transparent indoor arena that clients describe as a safety bubble inside nature.
Rupert and Krisztina explore why nature can take clients deep very quickly, and why that is both a chance and a danger. They discuss how a classic "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, what Winnicott's transitional space and the "wise mode" of schema therapy have to do with the forest, Hungary's relationship with mental health and transgenerational trauma, the difference between healthy fantasy and delusion, and why the horse is the anchor that keeps a person in the present moment.
If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode
How a foundation planned for four to six horses grew into a multi-program center with 14 horses, three dogs and a full team
Why the guiding rule is to run something only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists alike
Why mentally healthy therapy horses need a natural environment, and how that shapes therapy before a session even starts
Why the forest can take clients deep very quickly, and why that brings both a chance to grow and a risk of falling apart
Why children who are overloaded by impressions may fear the forest, and what they are really afraid of
How having a forest, an arena, a small indoor and an inside room lets the therapist tune the setting to each client's safety needs
How a transparent indoor arena, chosen because it was the cheapest option, works as a "safety bubble" and a transitional space
How magical places in the forest, like the wishing forest and the mound where problems are blown away, are built around clients' psychological needs
How the diagnostic "three wishes" task becomes a fairy tale, and how to translate a child's wish into an underlying need
What schema therapy is, and how the forest may help clients connect to their inner "wise mode"
How to tell healthy fantasy from delusion: does it connect you to yourself and others, or disconnect you?
Why the horse acts as an anchor to the present moment
How Krisztina sees dressage as maintaining harmony through constant rebalancing, and why training of any kind helps therapy horses handle more situations
🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode
00:03:40 Krisztina introduces herself as a clinical psychologist specializing in children and parents, certified to include her therapy dogs in sessions
00:07:10 She reveals the original plan: four to six horses and a peaceful, quiet life in her fairy forest, which is not what happened
00:08:50 Krisztina shares the one principle that guides every program: it runs only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists
00:22:50 She explains that frightened clients are not afraid of nature itself but of their own impulses projected onto the forest
00:41:50 Krisztina describes nature as a model of resilience: a tree meeting an obstacle grows around it instead of trying the same way 100 times
00:45:30 The transparent indoor arena, chosen as the cheapest option, turns out to be the best space for therapy, and clients call it a safety bubble in the forest
00:51:00 The wishing forest story: Krisztina once wished for six horses and now has 14, so be careful what you wish for
00:56:30 She shows how the "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, and how a wish for one more toy car reveals a need to be heard
01:16:40 Rupert asks whether there are real fairies in her forest, and Krisztina answers, "Of course there are"
01:30:30 Krisztina draws the line between fantasy and delusion: imagination that connects you to yourself and your relationships, versus imagination that cuts you off
01:49:30 Krisztina tells her own real-life fairy tale of asking the fairies for a life close to nature and horses, and finding more than she ever imagined
📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned
Krisztina Molnar – Clinical Psychologist, ÉletrevaLÓ Gyermekekért Alapítvány https://www.eletrevalodebrecen.com
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
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📊 Affiliate Disclosure
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data." – Laila Rahmatian
 Laila Rahmatian is an autism mom and former NASA engineer, originally from Houston and living in Indianapolis, Indiana when her son Donatello was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in October 2024 — now based near Frankfurt, Germany.
Unlike most guests on this show, Laila isn't a practitioner — she's a service user. After her son's diagnosis, she brought her engineering background to bear on his care, systematically tracking data across a comparison of therapy approaches and, eventually, more than 70 Horse Boy Method sessions.
This conversation covers Laila's diagnosis journey, why she walked away from a well-regarded autism center within minutes of touring it, the chance referral that led her family to Horse Boy Method after relocating to Germany, and the session-by-session developmental milestones her data captured — from a son who could barely stay on a horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech.
If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode
Why the first signs of Donatello's autism showed up not as a language delay but as a failure to respond to his own name — until a summer camp counselor discovered it wasn't the name he needed to hear, it was his mother's voice
How Laila's background as a former NASA engineer, and later an ADHD coach and tutor, shaped her instinct to research every option rather than accept the first professional's recommended protocol
Why Laila and her husband initially tried to "rule out" the diagnosis entirely, and what changed their minds
What made Laila walk out of a well-regarded autism therapy center within ten minutes of touring it, and why environment turned out to matter as much as method
How a chance referral from a school in Germany — not a marketing campaign — led Laila's family to Horse Boy Method for the first time
Why Laila decided to start formally recording data on her son's sessions, and how skepticism from others became the reason she started tracking numbers
What Laila's session-by-session data showed across roughly 70 sessions — from a child who could barely stay on the horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech
How working with multiple Horse Boy and Movement Method practitioners across Germany gave Laila a way to compare approaches and see which data patterns held up
Why Laila enrolled in Movement Method training herself rather than only bringing her son to sessions, and how that changed her ability to support him at home
What Laila is now planning for her family's next chapter — a "Horse Boy pilgrimage" across the practitioner network in Europe
🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode
[00:01:15] Rupert introduces Laila as a mother tracking hard data on her autistic son's progress — and a former NASA scientist — flipping the show's usual practitioner-focused format
[00:06:33] Laila recalls getting her son's diagnosis over the phone while driving, and telling the doctor she felt like they were "out to get my insurance money"
[00:13:26] Laila breaks down in tears within ten minutes of touring a well-known autism therapy center, describing its sterile, neon-lit rooms as feeling like an asylum
[00:29:30] Laila shares getting fired from a substitute teaching job at a Christian school for swearing in class — an unexpected twist in the chain of events that push her family toward the move to Germany
[00:33:26] Laila recounts thinking "Horse Boy" was simply the German word for horse therapy, and mistakenly believing Rupert didn't speak English before their first meeting
[00:39:50] Laila describes watching Donatello ride for the first time and hearing Rupert mention oxytocin and neuroplasticity — the moment she starts to move past her skepticism
[00:54:52] Laila explains why she started formally logging data on every session: "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data"
[00:59:35] Laila walks through the data from session 19, when Donatello began saying "on" and "off" without prompting, answered yes/no questions at school, and slept through the night for the first time
[01:20:38] Laila describes session 63, when Donatello pointed and said "That way" while on the horse
[01:20:59] Laila recalls a session with practitioner Carla Brahms where Donatello sang and moved his hands on horseback, bringing Carla to tears
📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned
Laila Rahmatian https://www.instagram.com/lailaalieh/
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co 
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com 
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
🌍 Follow Us
Long Ride Home 
https://longridehome.com 
https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh 
https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh 
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New Trails Learning Systems 
https://ntls.co 
https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
📊 Affiliate Disclosure
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not that I gave up. I switched." – Carolina Lockwood 
Carolina Lockwood joins Rupert Isaacson from Bariloche, in the Patagonia region of Argentina, where she has spent more than 30 years building equine-assisted work from the ground up — first blending art therapy with horses, then training directly with Rupert in Texas, then running an intensive Horse Boy–style program, then coaching, and now facilitating horse-based energy healing.
What makes Carolina's story distinctive is the environment she's built it in. In the areas around Bariloche, horse theft for meat is a real and recurring danger — over the years Carolina has lost five horses to thieves, including cases where stolen horses were found slaughtered. She talks candidly about tracking horses down with the police, the informal social protections that eventually stabilized her herd's safety, and the anxiety that never fully goes away even after 30 years without an incident.
The conversation traces her full arc: building a team of six staff and 30 kids a week at the height of her program, learning to read burnout in both horses and herself, closing that chapter deliberately rather than abandoning the work altogether, and evolving into equine coaching (trained through Kathy Pike and the Linda Kohanov lineage), liberty work (with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne), and now a year-plus training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico. Along the way, Rupert and Carolina dig into what "energy work" actually means in practical terms, and why practitioners shouldn't feel locked into one rigid model for life.
If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode
How Carolina moved from art therapy and ceramics work with special-needs kids into equine-assisted work in Bariloche, Patagonia
Why she traveled to Texas to train directly with Rupert after discovering the Horse Boy film
What it's actually like running horses in a region where theft and slaughter for meat is a recurring, organized threat — and how she and her family tracked down stolen horses with the police
Why gauchos' and polo horses are rarely stolen while therapy and pleasure horses are the ones targeted
How Carolina rebuilt her herd's security by relocating and relying on informal community protection rather than fences or guns
What her own "non-structure structure" for horse welfare looks like, built around free roaming, herd life, and trust — and how it differs from the fitness-and-conditioning approach used in Horse Boy Method
How she learned to read burnout in a horse, including a beloved therapy horse who started biting handlers when he was "done"
Why she eventually closed her intensive riding-based program on purpose, and how she thinks about that decision now
How she transitioned into equine coaching, training with Kathy Pike and the lineage of Linda Kohanov in Colorado
What liberty work with Jean-François Pignon and his student Celeste Solzenne taught her about horses reflecting a person's inner state
How she began training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico, and what that work looks like in practice
The story of a terminally ill client whose final wish involved Carolina's horses, and what it revealed to her about this kind of healing
What Carolina's dream is for a future retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia, and why she's decided to say it out loud

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode
[00:02:02] Carolina's path from art therapy and ceramics to horses, and the natural horsemanship training with Paul Walker that changed her perspective
[00:06:27] Discovering the Horse Boy film, writing to Rupert, and going to Texas to train
[00:11:56] The reality of horse theft and slaughter for meat in the mountains around Bariloche
[00:15:22] Tracking down stolen horses with the police, and the ones she never got back
[00:28:36] Carolina's "non-structure structure" for horse welfare, compared with Horse Boy's fitness-based system
[00:38:00] A beloved therapy horse starts biting handlers — reading the signs of equine burnout
[00:51:00] Carolina's own burnout, and the deliberate decision to close her intensive program
[00:59:42] Liberty training with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne
[01:19:00] The story of a terminally ill client and what happened in her final horse session
[01:32:55] Carolina's dream of a future healing retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia
📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned
Carolina Lockwood – Equine-assisted practitioner, coach & energy healing facilitator
Email: carowood9@gmail.com
Patreon Support
https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
🌍 Follow Us
Long Ride Home
https://longridehome.com
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New Trails Learning Systems
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https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
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📊 Affiliate Disclosure
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.