Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

✨ "I knew the outcome before I designed the study. I was designing the study with the hypothesis I already knew the answer to." – Mary Ann Simonds

✨ "The best tool we have is be the best human you can be. You don't have to know everything. You just have to be clear on yourself and be pure and be silent, and then help your horse be the best horse it can be." – Mary Ann Simonds

Mary Ann Simonds has spent more than four decades sitting at the intersection of wildlife biology, consciousness studies, and horsemanship — and almost none of it has looked the way science was supposed to look. She grew up in California riding hunter/jumpers, earned double degrees in range management and wildlife biology at the University of Wyoming, and began her career as a field biologist studying wild horses and mustangs in the 1970s. Her undergraduate range data became the study cited to justify mass BLM removals of wild horses — something she didn't discover until she was appointed to the National Advisory Board for Wild Horses and Burros in the early 1990s. She has worked for oil and gas companies as a reclamation specialist, pioneered ecotourism partnerships with ranchers in Wyoming and Oregon, studied interspecies communication at Nippon Animal Science University in Tokyo, and has spent years working quietly behind the scenes in the sport horse welfare world near her home in Wellington, Florida.

Her new book, A Horse by Nature, published by Trafalgar Square, draws on all of it — wild horse social behavior, domestic horse psychology, welfare ethics, and practical communication tools — organized in red, blue, and green tips so riders can go straight to what they need most. It is, as Rupert and Mary Ann agree at the end of this conversation, Part One of what will be a longer series.
This is a conversation about what happens when rigorous science and genuine animal communication occupy the same person — and what that has to teach anyone who lives and works with horses.

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What You'll Learn in This Episode
00:05:30 – How Mary Ann first recognized, at age 11, that a trainer couldn't hear what a horse with a headache was saying — and why that question drove her entire career
00:13:00 – What double degrees in range management and wildlife biology taught her about the gap between academic science and what animals are actually doing
00:39:00 – The dietary overlap study she conducted as an undergraduate — and how it became the data cited to justify mass BLM removal of wild horses decades later
00:44:00 – How BLM's gate-cut removal policy destroyed wild horse social structures and caused reproductive rates to skyrocket
00:47:00 – Why a Nevada rancher admitted he hated the wild stallion eating his alfalfa — and what that revealed about the real psychology behind mustang persecution
00:56:00 – How she converted ranchers into ecotourism operators years before the concept had a name — and why she calls herself a solution finder, not an activist
01:04:00 – The discovery that studying nature with a quiet mind produced completely different wildlife sightings than looking at it with scientific intent
01:20:00 – Why she went to graduate school to study human consciousness after watching a BLM official throw a briefcase at a rancher in a public meeting
01:38:00 – How she taught interspecies communication at Nippon Animal Science University in Tokyo, and why Japanese vet students grasped it almost instantly
01:44:00 – Why a horse's first two years determine everything, and how not knowing a horse's early history is one of the most common mistakes buyers make
01:49:00 – What A Horse by Nature offers: how to teach a horse to be a functional horse, the OFFER technique, and why eye contact, nose bump, and buddy scratch transform the relationship
01:51:00 – The red, blue, and green tip system — and why safety and comfort, not food, are a horse's primary motivation for bonding with a human
Memorable Moments from the Episode
00:12:00 – Mary Ann describes sleeping with rattlesnakes as an 18-year-old after refusing to leave the field — and what it taught her about looking with nature rather than at it
00:43:00 – She discovers her own undergraduate data, filed under her maiden name Cannie, was the study used to justify mass wild horse removals — and the range manager confirms it was never statistically significant
00:49:00 – An Oregon rancher comes to her door late at night to confess he killed a band of horses because they looked too pathetic to live — and her response: "So if you look like that, should I shoot you too?"
01:33:00 – A Wyoming cowboy's horse jumps into the back of his pickup truck with his dog, unprompted and untrained — and that moment becomes the seed of her interspecies communication research
01:42:00 – Rupert describes aloud, for the first time, all the prayers and invisible preparation he does before every training session — after an audience member tells him he didn't ask the horse permission
Guest Contact & Links
A Horse by Nature by Mary Ann Simonds (Trafalgar Square Publishing) https://amzn.to/4glHTCp
Mary Ann Simonds website and contact: www.maryAnnsimonds.com

About Mary Ann Simonds
Mary Ann Simonds is a wildlife biologist, behaviorist, and consciousness researcher who has spent more than four decades studying the relationship between horses, nature, and human awareness. She holds double degrees in range management and wildlife biology from the University of Wyoming and a graduate degree in consciousness studies. Her fieldwork spans wild mustang populations in the American West, dolphin behavior research, ecotourism development, and interspecies communication programs at veterinary universities in Japan. She has served on the National Advisory Board for Wild Horses and Burros, worked as a reclamation specialist for oil and gas companies, and spent years advocating for welfare reform in the sport horse industry near her home in Wellington, Florida. Her new book, A Horse by Nature, is published by Trafalgar Square.
🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/month
See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com

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Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "The best teachers and coaches are the horses. It's important for us to learn to listen to them and see them." – Mario Contreras
✨ "There is a big word I always feel is missing from the training scale — and that's joy. Where's the joy? These are movements that horses do when they feel passion." – Rupert Isaacson
Mario Contreras is the head trainer at Medieval Times Chicago, the man responsible for the standard of horsemanship that stops knowledgeable riders cold in the middle of a crowd of beer-drinking tourists who have no idea what they're witnessing. Third-generation horse trainer, born in Texcoco and raised in a family rooted in the Alta Escuela and charrería traditions of Jalisco, Mexico, Mario came to the US in 1990 with no English and a lifetime of classical riding in his bones — and built a 35-year career inside one of the most demanding equestrian entertainment operations in North America.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Rupert and Mario cover the deep roots of Mexican horse culture that most American dressage riders have never heard of, how Mario trains complete beginners to become knights performing before 1,500 people in under three years, and why cross-training, liberty work, and genuine joy are the true secrets to keeping horses and riders performing at their best. They also dig into the lost art of schoolmaster training, the in-hand and ground work that underpins everything Mario does, and the vision — still unfinished — of building Mexico a national horsemanship school at the level of Jerez or the Spanish Riding School.
A rich, warm conversation between two horsemen who share a deep reverence for the old masters and a conviction that horses teach us more than we teach them.

FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout

What You'll Learn in This Episode
• How the Contreras family built a three-generation tradition of Alta Escuela and charrería in Mexico, and how it led Mario to Medieval Times [00:02:35] 
What charrería is, why it matters, and how Mario's father blended it with classical Alta Escuela to create something unique [00:08:46] 
The role of Andalusian horses in promoting Mexican culture — and how the Aztec horse breed came to be [00:03:19] 
Why Medieval Times hires actors and athletes with no riding background — and how Mario turns them into skilled knights in three years [00:20:37] 
How Mario's brother Marcial pushed him harder as family than he would have pushed anyone else, and what that taught him about leadership [00:27:46] 

The value of getting your hands dirty: why Mario still cleans stalls and brushes horses, and why that's inseparable from great horsemanship [00:30:11] 
The case for in-hand and ground training before ever mounting a horse — and how Mario uses it to teach piaffe, passage, and the Spanish walk [00:32:18] 
Why schoolmaster horses are the missing ingredient in modern dressage training, and how the old masters always put beginners on the best horses first [00:51:24] 
Cross-training as the antidote to burnout: how mixing dressage, Alta Escuela, liberty, working equitation, and games keeps horses genuinely joyful [01:34:10] 
Mario's approach to stallion management, redirecting energy, and why isolation is the worst thing you can do for a difficult horse [01:15:07]
Memorable Moments from the Episode
Rupert describes watching a rider perform three caprioles in a row at Medieval Times while the crowd sips beer — and no one in the room understands what they're seeing [00:01:32] 
Mario recounts the moment he first rode for Medieval Times in California and was so hooked he never looked back [00:26:56] 
Mario describes being deported from the US, spending four years in Mexico without his family or friends, and then getting a call from Medieval Times offering to bring him back legally — via a detour to Cancun as a pirate [01:53:59] 
Mario was invited to ride Claudio Castilla Ruiz's Olympic Grand Prix horse Jade — in jeans and tennis shoes — during a visit to Spain in 2008 [00:58:19] 
Rupert and Mario agree that joy is the word missing from the classical training pyramid — and that a horse in the arena performing with passion is the only thing that makes the audience feel they spent their money well [01:32:11]
Guest Contact & Links
Mario A. Contreras — Facebook and Instagram: Mario A. Contreras MC Horse Training (Chicago area / Maple Park, IL): mchorsetraining.com (currently being rebuilt) 
Phone: 630-415-9788
About Mario Contreras
Mario Contreras is a third-generation horse trainer from a family rooted in the Alta Escuela and charrería traditions of Jalisco, Mexico. His father, Jose Trinidad Contreras, was co-founder of the Escuela de Jinetes Domeq and helped introduce Andalusian horses throughout Mexico. Mario joined Medieval Times in 1990 and has spent 35 years building and running the equestrian program at their flagship Chicago castle — the largest in the company, seating 1,500 people per show. Outside Medieval Times, he teaches at his own facility, MC Horse Training, in Maple Park, Illinois, specializing in Alta Escuela, classical dressage, and in-hand training on schoolmaster horses.
🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/month

See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:
Website: https://rupertisaacson.com

Follow Us:
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New Trails Learning Systems 
Website: https://ntls.co 
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Somebody asked me, 'Do you teach horses collection?' I said, 'I suppose, but really what I'm trying to do is teach them connection. I want them to know me, and I want to know them.'" – Dr. Glenn Cochran
✨ "The only thing about you that's bigger than that horse is your brain." – Dr. Glenn Cochran
Dr. Glenn Cochran is a Texas cattleman, emergency room physician, classical rider, working equitation organizer, and honorary charro who has spent his life refusing the false walls between disciplines. His journey runs from starting colts at 14 under old-school cowboy Buck Kidwell — dallied to a stallion's saddle horn, left leg turning purple — through Peruvian Pasos, Andalusians, and six months of Wednesday afternoon in-hand sessions with Spanish rider Fermin Carrera, to gathering 300 head of cattle through Central Texas brush so thick you can only hear the other cowboys, not see them.
The through-line is connection. Glenn practiced Oslerian medicine — sit down, listen, let the patient tell you the diagnosis — for decades in the ER, and found it mapped exactly onto how he trains horses. Rupert and Glenn also go deep on the historical origins of the Baucher flexions, tracing a possible thread from Hittite clay tablets in 1375 BC through Islamic horsemanship texts of the Reconquista to a 1665 German riding book — and asking whether Baucher invented anything at all.
Glenn swims in the Black singlefooting tradition, the Mexican charrería, the Portuguese rejoneo, and Baucher-influenced classical work, and sees it as one thing. A rich, warm, wide-ranging conversation.
FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout
All Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/books
What You'll Learn in This Episode
How Glenn started horses at 14 dallied to Buck Kidwell's stallion — and what that old-school hackamore foundation taught him [00:05:00]
The chain from a 1971 Denver bookstore to Nuno Oliveira's students to Spanish rider Fermin Carrera — and six months of Wednesday in-hand sessions [00:17:00]
Day-working cattle ranches across Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado — what it is and what you learn [00:26:16]
Oslerian medicine: sit with the patient, let them talk, and they'll give you the diagnosis — and how it maps onto horsemanship [00:42:00]
How the Masterson Method, Reiki, and skin-to-skin touch in medicine all point back to connection [00:50:17]
Glenn on teaching connection, not collection — and what that actually looks like with a young horse [00:53:06]
Were Baucher's flexions original? The rabbit hole: a 1665 German riding book, Islamic texts from the Reconquista, and a teenager who went to work with his uncle in Italy [01:20:23]
Why the division between western riding, doma vaquera, and classical dressage is a "completely monkey idea" — and what Mongolian livestock work has to do with piaffe [01:29:39]
The "song of the brush": gathering 300 head of Corriente cattle on horseback through brush so thick a snake has trouble getting through [01:39:33]
The charro, the vaquero, the escaramuza, and eight minutes of floreo rope work before you ever throw — Glenn as honorary charro [01:55:25]

Memorable Moments from the Episode
Buck Kidwell refusing a chicken catcher while roping a cow's swollen udder: "I don't need no goddamn chicken catcher. I'm a cowboy." [00:09:39]
66 horses moving through the foothills of the Rockies toward Estes Park — kids roadside calling "Real cowboys!" — and the horse that kicked out a fancy car's headlight [00:31:25]
Rupert pauses mid-conversation to fetch Dressage in the French Tradition by Diogo de Braganza and reads aloud on whether Baucher was a plagiarist of the German old school [01:20:23]
Glenn clears an 8-foot oak-plank fence in one leap after pawing back at a horned cow with a calf — who hit the boards right as he cleared them [01:36:00]
Glenn's first riding experience: sneaking under the electric fence to the neighboring dairy at age 10 until a little Jersey cow let him sit on her back [01:52:44]
About Dr. Glenn Cochran
Dr. Glenn Cochran is a Texas cattleman, emergency room physician, classical rider, and working equitation practitioner based on a 500-acre ranch in Central Texas. Raised around horses from childhood, he trained under cowboy Buck Kidwell before following a lifelong thread through Peruvian Pasos, Andalusians, Lusitanos, and the in-hand Baucher tradition — shaped by Diana Christensen (a student of Nuno Oliveira) and Spanish rider Fermin Carrera. He is an honorary charro and an active voice in bridging the western, classical, and Iberian worlds. Find Glenn on 
Facebook: Glenn Cochran.

🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/month
See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: 
Website: https://rupertisaacson.com
Follow Us:
Long Ride Home 
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New Trails Learning Systems 
Website: https://ntls.co 
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

What does it take to get a horse to stay with you — freely, on an open beach with no fence and no force? David Lichman has spent more than 30 years answering that question. From watching Ray Hunt work cold colts at the California State Fair, to becoming a Parelli instructor, to learning positive reinforcement from a sea lion behaviorist, his entire career has been built around one insight: make being with you the best place on earth.

The conversation covers liberty training, the treats debate, undemanding time, the history of horsemanship, and why joy is the only metric that matters. There is also a miniature horse named Pepino, America's Got Talent, and Sarah Silverman asking for a mustache ride on live television.
✨ "What's great about having a focus on liberty training is that if it ain't joyful, it ain't gonna happen — 'cause the horse is gonna leave." – David Lichman
✨ "You're either with me or you're not with me. If you're not with me, you're gonna come back here and find out how good it is here." – David Lichman

What You'll Learn in This Episode
How David's childhood in Marblehead, Massachusetts planted seeds that took decades to bloom [00:07:00]
Why watching Ray Hunt start 18 cold colts in 18 days at the California State Fair changed everything [00:20:40]
How David went from IBM contractor to World Grand Champion to Parelli instructor [00:22:12]
The circus liberty horse epiphany: a hooded figure, six gray Arabians, and a 20-year friendship [00:38:00]
What a sea lion facility in Moss Landing taught David about positive reinforcement [00:40:02]
The treats debate: why combining food reward with pressure-and-release produces results "way more than twice as good" as either alone [00:57:57]
Why joy is the one thing missing from every training scale — and why the joyful brain is the learning brain [01:00:24]
Why Parelli said "undemanding time" first, Warwick Schiller didn't hear it for 10 years, and Mongolian horse tribes never had to be taught it [01:03:00]
Why David changed the way liberty circles are taught — stop blocking departure, start making arrival irresistible [01:20:29]
The beach test: 10 years of relationship, outriders who rode away, and horses that stayed [01:22:42]
The America's Got Talent disaster: Pepino, a sick morning, and a performance that never happened [01:32:00]
Why horses require humility — and why they'll hand it to you regardless [02:01:24]
Memorable Moments from the Episode
David's horse kicked in the skull on tour — found grooming the horse that kicked him through the stall door two stops later [00:08:29]
Bow-and-arrow balloon shoot for 600 schoolchildren in Tennessee — dismounts by breaking two ribs [00:11:55]
Watching Ray Hunt at the State Fair: nobody around him could see the miracle [00:21:04]
The outriders ride away down the beach. The liberty horses don't follow [01:23:39]
Pepino refuses cookies the morning of his AGT debut. The act falls apart live [01:33:49]
Two mustaches shaved for charity. David's is back within three days [01:44:47]
Sarah Silverman watches the Spanish walk and asks if David taught his horse to goosestep [01:53:26]
Projects and Organizations Mentioned
David Lichman Natural Horsemanship https://david-lichman-5-star-parelli-professional.myshopify.com/
New Trails Learning Systems / Horse Boy Method — rupertisaacson.com
About David Lichman
David Lichman is a natural horsemanship clinician, liberty horse trainer, and former Parelli Instructor with more than 30 years of experience. He is known for developing liberty training that works in open fields and on beaches — no round pen required — and for integrating positive reinforcement with classical and natural horsemanship traditions. He also plays bass guitar and performs jazz with vocalist Gabriela.

See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:
Website: https://rupertisaacson.com

Long Ride Home
Website: https://longridehome.com
Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh
Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome

New Trails Learning Systems
Website: https://ntls.co
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

What if the stars in your birth chart could tell you why you're drawn to horses — and what stands between you and the deeper connection you're seeking? Denise Elizabeth Byron has spent decades working at the intersection of astrology, psychic intuition, and soul guidance. She didn't set out to become the horse community's astrologer. She set out, as a seven-year-old girl in California, simply to understand why her grandmother kept showing up in her bedroom after she died — and never really stopped.
Denise's path winds through a childhood steeped in Irish and Celtic intuition, a mother casting charts by hand in the seventies, years of study with psychic mentors, and a slow evolution from teacher to life coach to astrologer. What brought her into the horse world wasn't a horse — it was Robin Schiller, who came to a session and then brought Warwick, and the rest followed. What she found when she arrived was something she'd been searching for her whole life: a community of people who already knew how to listen.
This is a wide-ranging, deeply warm conversation between two people who share a fascination with the irrational, the ancestral, and the unseen. Rupert and Denise cover past lives and what they're actually for, why horse people are natural intuitives (and often don't know it), what it means to be a fire horse in a fire horse year, and why Mercury Retrograde is not the time to gallop away. They talk about fields of consciousness and what love actually is, from photons emitted by the heart to the physics of ocean waves. And somewhere in the middle, balloons spontaneously appeared on both their Zoom screens.
What emerges most clearly is this: horse women are far further along their intuitive journey than they give themselves credit for. And the thing most likely to block their connection with their horse isn't technique — it's perfectionism, and not extending to themselves the same love they so freely give their animals.
Denise's message to every horse woman listening is as simple as it is quietly devastating: treat yourself with as much love as you treat your horse.

FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout

✨ "Trust what you hear, trust what you feel. Most people who contact me are so much further along in their journey than they give themselves credit for." – Denise Elizabeth Byron
✨ "Treat yourself with as much love as you treat your horse." – Denise Elizabeth Byron
What You'll Learn in This Episode
How Denise's grandmother appeared in her room the night she died — and kept showing up for decades [00:02:30] 
The difference between being psychic and being an astrologer — and how Denise combines both [00:17:00] 
How Denise's astrology practice began with her mother casting charts by hand in the 1970s [00:20:30] 
How a session with Robin Schiller led to Denise becoming the astrologer for the Journey On community [00:34:00] 
Why astrology charts are portals for intuition, not just technical prediction tools [00:35:00] 
Why horse people make natural intuitives, and what deep listening has to do with survival [00:37:30] 
Why past lives may be less about other humans and more about ancestral healing [00:48:00] 
What a birth chart can reveal about your intuitive gifts and how to develop them [01:08:30] 
How the patriarchal lens has shaped astrology — and where the goddess asteroids are changing it [01:14:00] 
What it means to be a fire horse in a fire horse year, and what the stars say about this particular moment [01:19:00] 
How Rupert's Aquarius fire horse chart reflects his life's work in healing [01:22:00] 
What Mercury Retrograde actually is, and why it's a time for integration rather than action [01:28:00] 
The physics of consciousness: hearts emitting photons, ocean waves, and what love actually is [01:40:00] 
Why horse people tend toward perfectionism — and how it blocks connection with their horses [01:52:30]
Memorable Moments from the Episode
Denise describes setting spiritual boundaries — no visitors in the bedroom or bathroom, unless it's an emergency — and how her first mentor taught her this after a particularly awkward moment [00:12:30] 
Denise and Rupert discover they're roughly the same age and spend a moment pretending to be 27 and 28 respectively [00:22:30] 
Rupert nearly gets kicked out of university for comparing an Iron Age metal-working culture to the Industrial Revolution — and his professors are not amused [00:27:30] 
Denise explains how she always ends up as a "camel boy, never a pharaoh" in past life work [00:50:30] 
Rupert's uncle, an eminent pathologist, stuns him after watching The Horse Boy by praising it for "drawing attention to the irrational side of medicine" — and the placebo effect [01:05:00] 
Balloons spontaneously appear on both Zoom screens mid-conversation — neither of them made it happen [01:21:30] 
Denise shares that wherever she goes, a quiet coffee shop fills up within minutes — her partner David calls it a "black hole fact" [01:34:30]
Projects and Organizations Mentioned
HeartMath Institute — heart field research and coherence work
Kansas Carradine / Circus Cowgirl — HeartMath combined with horses: https://circuscowgirl.com
About Denise Elizabeth Byron
Denise Elizabeth Byron is an astrologer, intuitive, and soul guide who has spent over thirty years helping people understand their charts as maps of the soul rather than predictions of fate. Known in the equestrian world through her work with the Journey On podcast community, she works at the intersection of Western astrology, numerology, psychic intuition, and ancestral healing. Her gift lies not in technical chart reading but in using a birth chart as a portal — a set of symbols that opens access to deeper knowing, ancestral connection, and soul evolution. She can be reached through her website: https://deniseelizabethbyron.com
See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:
Website: https://rupertisaacson.com
Follow Us:
Long Ride Home 
Website: https://longridehome.com 
Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome

New Trails Learning Systems 
Website: https://ntls.co 
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.