Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

✨ "Somebody asked me, 'Do you teach horses collection?' I said, 'I suppose, but really what I'm trying to do is teach them connection. I want them to know me, and I want to know them.'" – Dr. Glenn Cochran
✨ "The only thing about you that's bigger than that horse is your brain." – Dr. Glenn Cochran
Dr. Glenn Cochran is a Texas cattleman, emergency room physician, classical rider, working equitation organizer, and honorary charro who has spent his life refusing the false walls between disciplines. His journey runs from starting colts at 14 under old-school cowboy Buck Kidwell — dallied to a stallion's saddle horn, left leg turning purple — through Peruvian Pasos, Andalusians, and six months of Wednesday afternoon in-hand sessions with Spanish rider Fermin Carrera, to gathering 300 head of cattle through Central Texas brush so thick you can only hear the other cowboys, not see them.
The through-line is connection. Glenn practiced Oslerian medicine — sit down, listen, let the patient tell you the diagnosis — for decades in the ER, and found it mapped exactly onto how he trains horses. Rupert and Glenn also go deep on the historical origins of the Baucher flexions, tracing a possible thread from Hittite clay tablets in 1375 BC through Islamic horsemanship texts of the Reconquista to a 1665 German riding book — and asking whether Baucher invented anything at all.
Glenn swims in the Black singlefooting tradition, the Mexican charrería, the Portuguese rejoneo, and Baucher-influenced classical work, and sees it as one thing. A rich, warm, wide-ranging conversation.
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What You'll Learn in This Episode
How Glenn started horses at 14 dallied to Buck Kidwell's stallion — and what that old-school hackamore foundation taught him [00:05:00]
The chain from a 1971 Denver bookstore to Nuno Oliveira's students to Spanish rider Fermin Carrera — and six months of Wednesday in-hand sessions [00:17:00]
Day-working cattle ranches across Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado — what it is and what you learn [00:26:16]
Oslerian medicine: sit with the patient, let them talk, and they'll give you the diagnosis — and how it maps onto horsemanship [00:42:00]
How the Masterson Method, Reiki, and skin-to-skin touch in medicine all point back to connection [00:50:17]
Glenn on teaching connection, not collection — and what that actually looks like with a young horse [00:53:06]
Were Baucher's flexions original? The rabbit hole: a 1665 German riding book, Islamic texts from the Reconquista, and a teenager who went to work with his uncle in Italy [01:20:23]
Why the division between western riding, doma vaquera, and classical dressage is a "completely monkey idea" — and what Mongolian livestock work has to do with piaffe [01:29:39]
The "song of the brush": gathering 300 head of Corriente cattle on horseback through brush so thick a snake has trouble getting through [01:39:33]
The charro, the vaquero, the escaramuza, and eight minutes of floreo rope work before you ever throw — Glenn as honorary charro [01:55:25]

Memorable Moments from the Episode
Buck Kidwell refusing a chicken catcher while roping a cow's swollen udder: "I don't need no goddamn chicken catcher. I'm a cowboy." [00:09:39]
66 horses moving through the foothills of the Rockies toward Estes Park — kids roadside calling "Real cowboys!" — and the horse that kicked out a fancy car's headlight [00:31:25]
Rupert pauses mid-conversation to fetch Dressage in the French Tradition by Diogo de Braganza and reads aloud on whether Baucher was a plagiarist of the German old school [01:20:23]
Glenn clears an 8-foot oak-plank fence in one leap after pawing back at a horned cow with a calf — who hit the boards right as he cleared them [01:36:00]
Glenn's first riding experience: sneaking under the electric fence to the neighboring dairy at age 10 until a little Jersey cow let him sit on her back [01:52:44]
About Dr. Glenn Cochran
Dr. Glenn Cochran is a Texas cattleman, emergency room physician, classical rider, and working equitation practitioner based on a 500-acre ranch in Central Texas. Raised around horses from childhood, he trained under cowboy Buck Kidwell before following a lifelong thread through Peruvian Pasos, Andalusians, Lusitanos, and the in-hand Baucher tradition — shaped by Diana Christensen (a student of Nuno Oliveira) and Spanish rider Fermin Carrera. He is an honorary charro and an active voice in bridging the western, classical, and Iberian worlds. Find Glenn on 
Facebook: Glenn Cochran.

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What does it take to get a horse to stay with you — freely, on an open beach with no fence and no force? David Lichman has spent more than 30 years answering that question. From watching Ray Hunt work cold colts at the California State Fair, to becoming a Parelli instructor, to learning positive reinforcement from a sea lion behaviorist, his entire career has been built around one insight: make being with you the best place on earth.

The conversation covers liberty training, the treats debate, undemanding time, the history of horsemanship, and why joy is the only metric that matters. There is also a miniature horse named Pepino, America's Got Talent, and Sarah Silverman asking for a mustache ride on live television.
✨ "What's great about having a focus on liberty training is that if it ain't joyful, it ain't gonna happen — 'cause the horse is gonna leave." – David Lichman
✨ "You're either with me or you're not with me. If you're not with me, you're gonna come back here and find out how good it is here." – David Lichman

What You'll Learn in This Episode
How David's childhood in Marblehead, Massachusetts planted seeds that took decades to bloom [00:07:00]
Why watching Ray Hunt start 18 cold colts in 18 days at the California State Fair changed everything [00:20:40]
How David went from IBM contractor to World Grand Champion to Parelli instructor [00:22:12]
The circus liberty horse epiphany: a hooded figure, six gray Arabians, and a 20-year friendship [00:38:00]
What a sea lion facility in Moss Landing taught David about positive reinforcement [00:40:02]
The treats debate: why combining food reward with pressure-and-release produces results "way more than twice as good" as either alone [00:57:57]
Why joy is the one thing missing from every training scale — and why the joyful brain is the learning brain [01:00:24]
Why Parelli said "undemanding time" first, Warwick Schiller didn't hear it for 10 years, and Mongolian horse tribes never had to be taught it [01:03:00]
Why David changed the way liberty circles are taught — stop blocking departure, start making arrival irresistible [01:20:29]
The beach test: 10 years of relationship, outriders who rode away, and horses that stayed [01:22:42]
The America's Got Talent disaster: Pepino, a sick morning, and a performance that never happened [01:32:00]
Why horses require humility — and why they'll hand it to you regardless [02:01:24]
Memorable Moments from the Episode
David's horse kicked in the skull on tour — found grooming the horse that kicked him through the stall door two stops later [00:08:29]
Bow-and-arrow balloon shoot for 600 schoolchildren in Tennessee — dismounts by breaking two ribs [00:11:55]
Watching Ray Hunt at the State Fair: nobody around him could see the miracle [00:21:04]
The outriders ride away down the beach. The liberty horses don't follow [01:23:39]
Pepino refuses cookies the morning of his AGT debut. The act falls apart live [01:33:49]
Two mustaches shaved for charity. David's is back within three days [01:44:47]
Sarah Silverman watches the Spanish walk and asks if David taught his horse to goosestep [01:53:26]
Projects and Organizations Mentioned
David Lichman Natural Horsemanship https://david-lichman-5-star-parelli-professional.myshopify.com/
New Trails Learning Systems / Horse Boy Method — rupertisaacson.com
About David Lichman
David Lichman is a natural horsemanship clinician, liberty horse trainer, and former Parelli Instructor with more than 30 years of experience. He is known for developing liberty training that works in open fields and on beaches — no round pen required — and for integrating positive reinforcement with classical and natural horsemanship traditions. He also plays bass guitar and performs jazz with vocalist Gabriela.

See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:
Website: https://rupertisaacson.com

Long Ride Home
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New Trails Learning Systems
Website: https://ntls.co
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

What if the stars in your birth chart could tell you why you're drawn to horses — and what stands between you and the deeper connection you're seeking? Denise Elizabeth Byron has spent decades working at the intersection of astrology, psychic intuition, and soul guidance. She didn't set out to become the horse community's astrologer. She set out, as a seven-year-old girl in California, simply to understand why her grandmother kept showing up in her bedroom after she died — and never really stopped.
Denise's path winds through a childhood steeped in Irish and Celtic intuition, a mother casting charts by hand in the seventies, years of study with psychic mentors, and a slow evolution from teacher to life coach to astrologer. What brought her into the horse world wasn't a horse — it was Robin Schiller, who came to a session and then brought Warwick, and the rest followed. What she found when she arrived was something she'd been searching for her whole life: a community of people who already knew how to listen.
This is a wide-ranging, deeply warm conversation between two people who share a fascination with the irrational, the ancestral, and the unseen. Rupert and Denise cover past lives and what they're actually for, why horse people are natural intuitives (and often don't know it), what it means to be a fire horse in a fire horse year, and why Mercury Retrograde is not the time to gallop away. They talk about fields of consciousness and what love actually is, from photons emitted by the heart to the physics of ocean waves. And somewhere in the middle, balloons spontaneously appeared on both their Zoom screens.
What emerges most clearly is this: horse women are far further along their intuitive journey than they give themselves credit for. And the thing most likely to block their connection with their horse isn't technique — it's perfectionism, and not extending to themselves the same love they so freely give their animals.
Denise's message to every horse woman listening is as simple as it is quietly devastating: treat yourself with as much love as you treat your horse.

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✨ "Trust what you hear, trust what you feel. Most people who contact me are so much further along in their journey than they give themselves credit for." – Denise Elizabeth Byron
✨ "Treat yourself with as much love as you treat your horse." – Denise Elizabeth Byron
What You'll Learn in This Episode
How Denise's grandmother appeared in her room the night she died — and kept showing up for decades [00:02:30] 
The difference between being psychic and being an astrologer — and how Denise combines both [00:17:00] 
How Denise's astrology practice began with her mother casting charts by hand in the 1970s [00:20:30] 
How a session with Robin Schiller led to Denise becoming the astrologer for the Journey On community [00:34:00] 
Why astrology charts are portals for intuition, not just technical prediction tools [00:35:00] 
Why horse people make natural intuitives, and what deep listening has to do with survival [00:37:30] 
Why past lives may be less about other humans and more about ancestral healing [00:48:00] 
What a birth chart can reveal about your intuitive gifts and how to develop them [01:08:30] 
How the patriarchal lens has shaped astrology — and where the goddess asteroids are changing it [01:14:00] 
What it means to be a fire horse in a fire horse year, and what the stars say about this particular moment [01:19:00] 
How Rupert's Aquarius fire horse chart reflects his life's work in healing [01:22:00] 
What Mercury Retrograde actually is, and why it's a time for integration rather than action [01:28:00] 
The physics of consciousness: hearts emitting photons, ocean waves, and what love actually is [01:40:00] 
Why horse people tend toward perfectionism — and how it blocks connection with their horses [01:52:30]
Memorable Moments from the Episode
Denise describes setting spiritual boundaries — no visitors in the bedroom or bathroom, unless it's an emergency — and how her first mentor taught her this after a particularly awkward moment [00:12:30] 
Denise and Rupert discover they're roughly the same age and spend a moment pretending to be 27 and 28 respectively [00:22:30] 
Rupert nearly gets kicked out of university for comparing an Iron Age metal-working culture to the Industrial Revolution — and his professors are not amused [00:27:30] 
Denise explains how she always ends up as a "camel boy, never a pharaoh" in past life work [00:50:30] 
Rupert's uncle, an eminent pathologist, stuns him after watching The Horse Boy by praising it for "drawing attention to the irrational side of medicine" — and the placebo effect [01:05:00] 
Balloons spontaneously appear on both Zoom screens mid-conversation — neither of them made it happen [01:21:30] 
Denise shares that wherever she goes, a quiet coffee shop fills up within minutes — her partner David calls it a "black hole fact" [01:34:30]
Projects and Organizations Mentioned
HeartMath Institute — heart field research and coherence work
Kansas Carradine / Circus Cowgirl — HeartMath combined with horses: https://circuscowgirl.com
About Denise Elizabeth Byron
Denise Elizabeth Byron is an astrologer, intuitive, and soul guide who has spent over thirty years helping people understand their charts as maps of the soul rather than predictions of fate. Known in the equestrian world through her work with the Journey On podcast community, she works at the intersection of Western astrology, numerology, psychic intuition, and ancestral healing. Her gift lies not in technical chart reading but in using a birth chart as a portal — a set of symbols that opens access to deeper knowing, ancestral connection, and soul evolution. She can be reached through her website: https://deniseelizabethbyron.com
See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:
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New Trails Learning Systems 
Website: https://ntls.co 
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Men don't need less empathy. They often need empathy delivered differently." – Eric Robertson
✨ "Success is a tricky thing. You can get to the point where you start to believe your own bullshit — and that has some negative impacts on your relationships." – Eric Robertson

Eric Robertson spent 33 years inside some of the most painful moments families ever face — divorce. As one of Austin's most respected family law attorneys, he sat across from men and women at their most raw and most desperate. What he noticed about the men changed the direction of his life. They weren't falling apart in the ways the system was built to recognize. They were shutting down, overworking, picking fights, and quietly disappearing inside themselves — and nobody had a name for what was happening to them. That observation sent Eric back to school for a second master's degree in clinical mental health counseling, and launched an entirely new career focused on men's emotional wellbeing.
This conversation matters deeply if you love a man — a son, a partner, a brother, a father. So much of what Eric shares illuminates not just what men are going through, but why they behave the way they do when they're struggling, and what the people around them can actually do to help. If you've ever felt the wall go up, or watched someone you care about go quiet when you knew something was wrong, this episode will give you language, compassion, and insight you didn't have before.
Rupert and Eric move through the staggering statistics behind male loneliness and suicide, the question of why successful men are often the ones struggling most, and the double standards men quietly carry. Eric walks through how depression actually shows up in men — irritability, emotional numbness, compulsive overworking, chronic pain — so listeners can recognize what they might previously have dismissed or misread. The conversation takes a genuinely practical turn when Eric demonstrates a live bilateral tapping session with Rupert on-air, offering a simple tool for emotional regulation that anyone can begin using today.
Rupert brings his own lens throughout — from his years living with San Bushmen hunter-gatherer communities in southern Africa, to raising his autistic son Rowan, to his own honest reflections on therapy, mentorship, and what men actually need to heal. Whether you're listening for yourself, for someone you love, or simply because you sense the men in your world are carrying more than they're letting on — come with an open heart, and you'll leave with new eyes.
What You'll Learn in This Episode
Why Eric left a 33-year career as a top divorce attorney to become a men's therapist — and what he kept seeing in his male clients that no one was addressing [00:03:35]
The statistics behind male loneliness and suicide: 80% of suicides in 2023 were men, and 15% of young men now report having no close friends — a fivefold increase since 1990 [00:04:34]
How depression and emotional distress show up differently in men — and why so many cases go unrecognized [00:10:21]
Why successful men are often the ones struggling most, and how chasing external validation can quietly hollow out a life [00:16:38]
The role of mentorship in Eric's own story — how one senior attorney modeled a different way to live and why Eric credits him with changing his trajectory [00:25:00] • What divorce coaching is, why it differs from therapy or legal advice, and why well-meaning "shadow advisors" often make things worse [00:37:33]
The double standard men silently carry — expected to be emotionally present at home, while still judged as providers if they fall short [00:55:39]
How to raise emotionally literate boys, including the powerful practice of "connection before correction" when a child acts out [00:53:03]
Why young men need healthy risk — and how the loss of mentored, nature-based challenge is driving the retreat into screens and isolation [01:07:38]
The neuroscience of the developing frontal cortex: why young men's brains aren't yet wired for emotional regulation, and what that means for how we respond to them [01:21:00]
How bilateral tapping works to regulate emotional overwhelm — demonstrated live in the episode [01:24:15]
Eric's closing framework for working with men: normalize emotion without forcing verbal vulnerability, focus on goals, and frame help as skill-building rather than weakness [01:31:49]
Memorable Moments
Eric describes watching male divorce clients shut down rather than fall apart — the observation that sent him back to school and into an entirely new career [00:03:35] 
Rupert and Eric do a live bilateral tapping session on-air — Rupert taps along as Eric guides him through the protocol, and notes a genuine shift by the end [01:24:46] 
Eric admits that at the height of his legal career he started believing his own success story in ways that cost him his closest relationships — and the moment he knew something had to change [00:19:00] 
Rupert shares the story of a young man who wouldn't leave his room — brought to his farm in winter, where chopping wood to stay warm turned out to be the intervention no therapist had managed [01:17:03] 
Eric describes a divorce case that flipped the gender script: a stay-at-home husband whose female breadwinner said exactly what men usually say — revealing how much of conflict is human, not gendered [00:56:18] 
Eric admits he used to do secret tapping exercises before every courtroom trial to manage his own anxiety — and now uses that confession to help male clients get past the "touchy-feely" resistance [01:28:36]
Projects and Organizations Mentioned
Robertson Counseling and Therapy — Eric Robertson's practice in Austin, Texas: https://robertsonct.com
American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers
American Institute of Boys and Men
EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)
Divorce Discernment Counseling
Movement Method / New Trails Learning Systems: https://ntls.co
University of Bournemouth equine study on domestic violence re-offending
The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, The Healing Land — books by Rupert Isaacson
About Eric Robertson
Eric Robertson is a licensed professional counselor associate based in Austin, Texas. After 33 years as a family law attorney — including serving on the board of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers — he returned to his original calling and completed a master's degree in clinical mental health counseling. He now works with men and individuals navigating divorce, offering both therapy and divorce coaching to help people stay emotionally regulated when it matters most. His website is www.robertsonct.com.

See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: https://rupertisaacson.com
Follow Us:
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New Trails Learning Systems 
Website: https://ntls.co 
Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

⭐ “Horses can only perform as well as they understand — and as well as they feel.” – Karen Rohlf
⭐ “You have to be either searching or enjoying — nothing in between.” – Karen Rohlf

Karen Rohlf didn’t start out trying to reinvent dressage — she started as a horse‑crazy kid, fell into traditional training, and then slowly realized something wasn’t adding up.
In this episode of Live Free Ride Free, Rupert Isaacson speaks with Karen about the hidden tension inside modern dressage, the difference between training and performance, and why so many riders get stuck chasing “correctness” instead of connection.
Karen shares her journey from competitive dressage into a more horse‑centered approach, including the moment she nearly quit horses altogether — and how rediscovering joy, curiosity, and partnership brought her back.
The conversation explores the deep conflict between competition and wellbeing, the limits of traditional systems, and why many so‑called “dressage problems” are actually issues of communication, lifestyle, or emotional state. Karen introduces her “Happy Athlete Training Scale,” a radically simple but powerful framework that starts not with movement — but with happiness, harmony, and understanding.
From letting go of ego‑driven goals to developing real feel, this is a conversation about what dressage could be — and what it becomes when we truly listen to the horse.
FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout
All Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/books
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
 How traditional dressage systems often prioritize appearance over communication [00:11:30]
 The difference between training for tomorrow vs performing for today [00:12:30]
 Why competition can quietly distort good training decisions [00:18:00]
 Why Karen Rohlf almost quit horses — and what brought her back [00:23:00]
 How Karen blends dressage with natural horsemanship principles [00:27:00]
 The role of relaxation — and why it’s widely misunderstood [00:34:30]
 Karen’s “Happy Athlete Training Scale” — happiness, harmony, communication, biomechanics, and sport [00:37:00]
 Why many dressage problems are actually communication problems [00:39:00]
 How to develop real feel instead of relying on rigid techniques [01:11:00]
 A practical method to improve your horse without being told “what’s right” [01:12:00]
 Why play, curiosity, and experimentation create better precision than control [01:14:00]
 The importance of voice, reward, and feedback in training [01:20:00]
Memorable Moments from the Episode:
 The concept that many riders are trained to “make it look right” even when it isn’t [00:12:00]
 The moment she saw her horse trying so hard he broke gait trying to please her [00:20:00]
 Karen realizing she didn’t actually want the Olympic path — despite being on track for it [00:21:00]
 Living out of a horse trailer between Florida and Colorado while redefining her approach [00:26:00]
 The insight that horses don’t need to be controlled — they need to understand [00:39:00]
 The clinic story where fixing basic communication transformed advanced movements instantly [00:50:00]
 The simple but powerful rule: “You must be either searching or enjoying” [01:15:00]
 Karen’s reflection on stepping away from the “horse industry” to stay true to her values [01:27:00]
Projects and Organizations Mentioned:
• Dressage Naturally
• New Trails Learning Systems
• Helios Harmony
About Karen Rohlf:
Karen Rohlf is an internationally recognized clinician, author, and creator of the Dressage Naturally approach.
Originally trained in traditional competitive dressage, she has spent decades developing a system that blends classical training with horse‑centered communication, emotional awareness, and partnership.
Her work focuses on helping riders develop feel, clarity, and connection — creating horses that are not just trained, but willing, confident, and understood.
Website: https://dressagenaturally.net
See All of Rupert’s Programs and Shows: https://rupertisaacson.com

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New Trails Learning Systems 
Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
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YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems
Affiliate Disclosure:
Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.