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The Integration of Feminine and Masculine with Jennifer Abe and Douglas E. Christie
Have you adopted scripts around the terms feminine and masculine? Today we unpack Chapter 8 of Richard's book, Eager to Love, entitled "Lightness of Heart and Firmness of Foot: The integration of Feminine and Masculine", and we ask for our listener's grace as we imperfectly grapple with a subject inherently challenging to define. The conversation delves into the integration of masculine and feminine energies within the context of spirituality, particularly through the lens of the Franciscan tradition. Richard and our hosts explore how cultural influences shape our definitions, how terms like masculine and feminine can easily be confused for gender, and the revolutionary approach of Francis of Assisi in breaking free from traditional norms. We're then joined by two incredible voices in the world of liberation psychology and contemplative spirituality, Jennifer Abe and Douglas Christie, who share their personal journeys and insights, emphasizing the interconnectedness of life and the need for openness to mystery and transformation. Jennifer Shimako Abe earned her PhD in clinical psychology from UCLA and has been on the faculty of the Department of Psychological Science at Loyola Marymount University since 1994. Her experience in Central and South America drew her to the work of Jesuit priest and social psychologist, Fr. Ignacio Martin-Baró, SJ and the field he founded, liberation psychology. The principles of liberation psychology have guided her research in different areas, including how the practice of cultural humility relates to institutional and social transformation, and how culturally rooted, community-defined evidence practices are critical for addressing mental health disparities across diverse communities. In 2024, she helped lead a commission on Student Spiritual Growth and Mental Health: Toward a Hope-Filled Future for Jesuit institutions in North America. Jennifer is currently the interim director for the Marymount Institute for Faith, Culture, and the Arts at LMU, leading efforts to strengthen the legacy of the women religious and the Marymount educational tradition at her institution. Across different leadership roles, Jennifer has been committed to working at the intersections of culture, spirituality, and justice in the context of Ignatian values and the Jesuit educational mission. Douglas E. Christie is Professor Emeritus in the Theological Studies Department at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He is the author of The Word in The Desert: Scripture and the Quest for Holiness in Early Christian Monasticism (Oxford, 1993), The Blue Sapphire of the Mind: Note for a Contemplative Ecology (Oxford, 2012), and The Insurmountable Darkness of Love: Mysticism, Loss and the Common Life (Oxford, 2022). He has been awarded fellowships from the Luce Foundation, the Lilly Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. From 2013-2015 he served as Co-director of the Casa de la Mateada study abroad program in Córdoba, Argentina, a program rooted in the Jesuit vision of education for solidarity. He lives with his family in Los Angeles and is currently working on a book about the desert as spiritual landscape. Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, and Paul Swanson Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here. Grab a copy of Eager to Love here. To learn more about the work of Jennifer Abe, visit here. For more by Douglas Christie, visit the following: Wasting Time Conscientiously, What is Contemplation
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1:31:21
The Integration of the Negative with Kaira Jewel Lingo and Adam Bucko
How can we stay open to, and perhaps even become curious about, our rough edges? Today we delve further into the themes of Richard Rohr's book, 'Eager to Love,' focusing on the integration of the negative and the spirituality of imperfection. We're joined by very special guests Adam Bucko and Kaira Jewel Lingo, who share personal stories of their encounters with St. Francis and discuss the value of suffering, the Bodhisattva path, and the importance of accepting one's imperfections as a means to spiritual growth. Both share stories about the importance of feedback within community settings, as well as the integration of external practices with internal spiritual journeys. The conversation concludes with practical advice on how to approach life's challenges with joy and acceptance, noting that we're all on the road together, and everything belongs. Kaira Jewel Lingo is a Dharma teacher with a lifelong interest in spirituality and social justice. Her work continues the Engaged Buddhism developed by Thich Nhat Hanh, and she draws inspiration from her parents’ lives of service and her dad’s work with Martin Luther King, Jr. After living as an ordained nun for 15 years in Thich Nhat Hanh’s monastic community, Kaira Jewel now teaches internationally in the Zen lineage and the Vipassana tradition, as well as in secular mindfulness, at the intersection of racial, climate and social justice with a focus on Black, Indigenous, and People of Color, and activists, as well as artists, educators, families, and youth. Based in New York, she offers spiritual mentoring to groups and is author of We Were Made for These Times: Ten Lessons in Moving through Change, Loss and Disruption and co-author of Healing Our Way Home: Black Buddhist Teachings on Ancestors, Joy and Liberation. Adam Bucko is an Episcopal priest, teacher of contemplative spirituality, spiritual director, and activist. Born and raised in Poland under a totalitarian regime, his early exposure to spiritual activism deeply shaped his life's orientation. A committed voice in the renewal of Christian contemplation and new monasticism, he authored Let Your Heartbreak Be Your Guide: Lessons in Engaged Contemplation and co-authored Occupy Spirituality: A Radical Vision for a New Generation and The New Monasticism: An Interspiritual Manifesto for Contemplative Living. Currently, he directs The Center for Spiritual Imagination in New York, dedicated to democratizing monastic spirituality and teaching contemplative prayer in response to the cries of the poor and the earth. He also serves as a priest at the Cathedral of the Incarnation in Garden City, New York. Together, Kaira and Adam lead The Beloved Community for Engaged Spirituality, inspired by the social vision of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Thich Nhat Hanh, and the Buddhist-Christian teachings of Engaged Contemplation. Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, and Paul Swanson Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here. Grab a copy of Eager to Love here. To learn more about Kaira Jewel Lingo, visit her website here. Learn more about Adam Bucko, here. To find out more about Adam and Kaira's monastary, visit here.
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1:26:38
Waiting in the Darkness, an Advent Bonus
How can we be open to what the darkness of Advent offers? In this conversation, Richard Rohr, Mike Petrow, Drew Jackson, and Paul Swanson explore the themes of Advent and Christmas, sharing personal traditions and reflections on the spiritual significance of the season. They discuss the importance of longing, waiting, and the transformative power of darkness, as well as the role of poetry in expressing these themes. The conversation culminates in poignant reading of a poem that encapsulates the essence of Advent, emphasizing the beauty found in the darkness and the anticipation of new beginnings. Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here. Grab a copy of Eager to Love here. Learn more about Drew Jackson's God Speaks Through Wombs, here.
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1:21:52
An Alternative Orthodoxy With Brian McLaren
How can we stay open to ongoing learning and growth, even when we don't have all the answers? In this episode, we’re joined by CAC's Dean of Core Faculty, Brian McLaren. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 6: “An Alternative Orthodoxy: Paying Attention to Different Things.” In this episode, we explore the concept of "alternative orthodoxy," examining how Franciscan spirituality, Richard Rohr's personal teachings, and the Christian contemplative tradition challenge conventional religious frameworks and invite us to pay attention to different things. Before Mike and Drew begin the conversation with Brian, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the sixth chapter of Eager to Love. Brian McLaren is the Dean of CAC Faculty. A former evangelical pastor, Brian D. McLaren is a champion for a more loving, inclusive and contemplative Christianity. A faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation, he teaches ways to reconnect with the message Jesus lived and died for—unconditional love. He is the author of Faith After Doubt, The Great Spiritual Migration, and host of CAC’s podcast Learning How to See. Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here. Grab a copy of Eager to Love here. To learn more about Brian McLaren, visit his website here.
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1:22:55
Contemplation With Carmen Acevedo Butcher
How does contemplation invite you to see the world, and yourself, differently? In this episode, we’re joined by CAC Affiliate Faculty member Carmen Acevedo Butcher. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 5: “Contemplation: A New Way of Seeing.” In this conversation, we explore the meaning and practice of contemplation, how it can be practiced in various forms, and how a contemplative perspective can transform one's relationship to the world. Before Mike and Paul begin the conversation with Carmen, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the fifth chapter of Eager to Love. Carmen Acevedo Butcher, PhD, is an award-winning author, poet, and translator of spiritual texts. She teaches at UC Berkeley, focusing on language evolution and inclusive communication. Her work highlights the power of words and the connection between personal and global healing. Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here. Grab a copy of Eager to Love here. To learn more about Carmen Acevedo Butcher, visit her website here.
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1:25:49

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