Risky Business Stories

In this special documentary episode, Patrick Gray and Amberleigh Jack take a look back at hacking throughout the 1990s, from the feel-good vibes of the early hacking communities to the antics of young hackers who wound up on the run from the FBI.

Part one features recollections from:

Jeff Moss (The Dark Tangent), DefCon and Black Hat founder

Chris Wysopal (Weld Pond), L0pht member, co-founder, @Stake

Kevin Poulsen (Dark Dante), 1990s hacker turned journalist

Elias Levy (Aleph One), author of Smashing the Stack for Fun and Profit, Phrack, 1996

How the World Got Owned is produced in partnership with SentinelOne.



Show notes



Elias Levy (Aleph1), Former Principle Engineer, Google


Kevin Poulsen, Journalist


Jeff Moss, DefCon founder


Chris Wysopal, @Stake founder, L0pht member


Hackers testifying at the United States Senate, May 19, 1998


Hackers May ‘Net’ Good PR for Studio


DefCon Archives | DefCon 1


A Not So Terribly Brief History of the Electronic Frontier Foundation


Innocent Hackers Want Their Computers Back


Breakdowns in Computer Security


Unsolved Mysteries, Season 3, Episode 4


The Last Hacker: He Called Himself Dark Dante. His Compulsion Led Him to Secret Files and, Eventually, The Bar of Justice


Justia appeal summary, Kevin Poulsen, 1994


Smashing the Stack for Fun and Profit, Phrack Magazine, November 1996


From subversives to CEOs: How radical hackers built today’s cybersecurity industry

In this special documentary episode, Patrick Gray and Amberleigh Jack take a historical dive into hacking in the 1980s. Through the words of those that were there, they discuss life on the ARPANET, the 414s hacking group, the Morris Worm, the vibe inside the NSA and a parallel hunt for German hackers happening at a similar time to Cliff Stoll’s famous Cuckoo’s Egg story.

This podcast features the memories of:

Jon Callas, former principal software engineer at Digital Equipment Corporation

Mark Rasch, Morris Worm prosecutor

Timothy Winslow, former 414 hacker

Greg Chartrand, author of Cracking the Cuckoos Egg and

Tony Sager, former NSA

How the World Got Owned is produced in partnership with SentinelOne.



Show notes



1988 Federal sentencing guidelines manual


Computer Intruder is put on probation and fined $10,000 | The New York Times


Computer Intruder is found guilty | The New York Times


United States of America, Appellee, v. Robert Tappan Morris, Defendant-appellant, 928 F.2d 504 (2d Cir. 1991)


The Cuckoo’s Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage | Clifford Stoll


Cracking the Cuckoo’s Egg: The Untold Story of tracking and finding Karl Koch aka Hagbard of the Chaos Computer Club | Greg Chartrand


Computer Buffs Tapped NASA Files | The New York Times


Young Computer Bandits Byte off More than They Could Chew | The Washington Post


‘Hacker’ is used by Mainstream Media, September 5, 1983 | EDN


Neal Patrick to testify before congressional committee


Wargames official trailer, 1983


CBS News Segment on Robert Morris Computer Hacker


The Fall of the Berlin Wall | Sky News


I Hacked a Nuclear Facility in the 1980’s. You’re Welcome | CNN