The Deal with Animals with Marika S. Bell

Episode 7 of Series 16: The Captivity Conversation- Transcript
Dogs live under profound human control and their wellbeing depends on how we understand their agency, sensory world, and autonomy. This conversation asks us to observe our dogs like ethologists — with curiosity rather than correction — and to rethink what ethical care looks like when the captive animal is living right beside us.
Guest Bio: Jessica Pierce is a bioethicist and writer whose work explores how humans might live more attentively and responsibly alongside other animals. She is the author of fourteen books on animal ethics, environmental philosophy, and human–animal relationships, including Who’s a Good Dog? And How to Be a Better Human and Dogpedia: A Brief Compendium of Canine Curiosities. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, TIME, and Scientific American. Pierce is a faculty affiliate at the Center for Bioethics and Humanities at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical School, and she lives in the Colorado Rockies, where her thinking is shaped by daily encounters with dogs, wildlife, and the more‑than‑human world.
Book Recommendations: The Sound of a Wild Snail Eating by Elisabeth Tova Bailey
Related Links:
TDWA Blog
Guest Book Recommendations List

Episode 6 of Series 16: The Captivity Conversation- Transcript
Victoria Stilwell joins me to talk about how we shape dogs’ lives through training, communication, and the choices that determine whether they feel safe, understood, and able to express themselves. Our conversation looks closely at the the limits of control, and what it really means to build a relationship that supports their agency rather than restricts it.
Guest Bios: Victoria Stilwell is a globally recognised dog behaviour expert whose work in humane, evidence‑based training reaches audiences in over 200 countries through It’s Me or the Dog and her ongoing role as training consultant for Channel 4’s The Dog Academy. She is the founder of Positively.com, CEO of the VSPDT trainer network, and President of the Victoria Stilwell Academy, a leading institution for positive‑reinforcement dog‑training education. Stilwell is also the author of five bestselling books and a frequent contributor to major TV, radio, and media outlets worldwide.
Book Recommendations: Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know by Alexandra Horowitz
Related Links:
TDWA Blog
Guest Book Recommendations List

Episode 5 looks outward: how to apply the psychology of eating animals, behaviour‑change research, and cross‑disciplinary insights to build a more effective, culturally aware, globally relevant animal‑advocacy movement. The episode argues that progress depends on meeting people where they are, adapting strategies to context, and designing interventions that make pro‑animal behaviour easy, normal, and socially supported.
This Episode Features:
Jared Piazza — co-founder of The Fair Society researching how children and adolescents come to understand (and morally judge) the origins of animal products.
Ondine Sherman — author and co-founder of animal advocacy organization Voiceless, focused on how and when to talk to children about animal ethics.
Chris Hopwood — co-founder of The Fair Society and personality psychologist exploring how honesty with kids about eating animals compares to how we talk to adults.
Katja Liebal — leader of the Children in Nature project, studying how cultural and environmental factors shape children's relationships with animals across 18 countries.
Antonia Gefahrt — social scientist researching how people respond to vegan advocacy and how autonomy threat drives defensive reactions.
Related Links:
PHAIR Society A biannual gathering of researchers and advocates focused on human–animal intergroup relations, moral psychology, and behaviour change.
For more info check out the blog at www.thedealwithanimals.com

Guest Book Recommendations List

Episode 4 examines the tension and opportunity where animal-advocacy goals and research on the psychology of eating animals overlap, drawing on conversations from the PHAIR conference. Researchers and advocates discuss credibility, bias, conflicts of interest, and “epistemic pollution” in a climate of distrust, including how carnism can be treated as invisible ideology and how advocacy incentives may shape interpretation of findings. The episode also highlights a mismatch in urgency—advocates want rapid change while science moves slowly—and the need to make research accessible, relevant, and collaborative so it can be used off the page.
This episode features:
Joshua Rottman — Associate professor of psychology. Studies moral reasoning, human–animal relations, and how people reconcile beliefs about harm with everyday behaviour.
Tobias Leenaert — Author and strategist focused on pragmatic, evidence‑based advocacy. Known for promoting incremental change, cultural sensitivity, and long‑term movement strategy.
Brooke Haggerty — Executive Director of Faunalytics. Works at the intersection of research and advocacy, helping organisations use data to design more effective interventions and understand public attitudes toward animals.
Jared Piazza — Senior lecturer in social psychology. Researches moral judgement, meat consumption, and the psychological mechanisms people use to justify animal use.
Ondine Sherman — Author and co‑founder of Voiceless. Works on compassionate education, narrative change, and the emotional dimensions of advocacy.
Sue O’Neill — Crisis‑support practitioner and applied researcher. Brings frontline insight into how people make decisions under pressure and how advocacy organisations can better support them.
Matthew Ruby — Senior Lecturer in Psychology. Research explores moral cognition, food choices, and the psychology of eating animals, examining how cultural norms and identity shape dietary behaviour and openness to change.
Chris Hopwood — Professor of psychology specialising in personality and interpersonal behaviour. Examines how people navigate moral conflict, identity, and the tensions between caring about animals and everyday habits.
Related Links:
PHAIR Society A biannual gathering of researchers and advocates focused on human–animal intergroup relations, moral psychology, and behaviour change.
For more info check out the blog at www.thedealwithanimals.com

Guest Book Recommendations List

Episode 3 shifts from frustration to forward motion. This episode looks at the strategies that genuinely help people change — not the ones we wish worked, but the ones supported by evidence. Researchers and advocates unpack how small, well‑designed interventions can reshape habits, reduce defensiveness, and make compassionate choices easier. The episode traces what works, why it works, and how advocates can use these insights to create change that lasts.
This episode features:
Brooke Haggerty — Executive Director of Faunalytics. Works at the intersection of research and advocacy, helping organisations use data to design more effective interventions and understand public attitudes toward animals.
Matthew Ruby — Senior Lecturer in Psychology. Research explores moral cognition, food choices, and the psychology of eating animals, examining how cultural norms and identity shape dietary behaviour and openness to change.
Tobias Leenaert — Author and strategist focused on pragmatic, evidence‑based advocacy. Known for promoting incremental change, cultural sensitivity, and long‑term movement strategy.
Antonia Gifford — Social psychologist and incoming doctoral researcher. Studies communication, moral development, and how children form attitudes toward other living beings.
Chris Hopwood — Professor of psychology specialising in personality and interpersonal behaviour. Examines how people navigate moral conflict, identity, and the tensions between caring about animals and everyday habits.
Sue O’Neill — Crisis‑support practitioner and applied researcher. Brings frontline insight into how people make decisions under pressure and how advocacy organisations can better support them.
Jared Piazza — Senior lecturer in social psychology. Researches moral judgement, meat consumption, and the psychological mechanisms people use to justify animal use.
Joshua Rottman — Associate professor of psychology. Studies moral reasoning, human–animal relations, and how people reconcile beliefs about harm with everyday behaviour.
Ondine Sherman — Author and co‑founder of Voiceless. Works on compassionate education, narrative change, and the emotional dimensions of advocacy.
Katja Liebal — Biologist and comparative psychologist. Studies communication and facial expressions in non‑human primates, and how children develop attitudes toward unfamiliar animals, including through the “fantasy animals” project.
Related Links:
PHAIR Society A biannual gathering of researchers and advocates focused on human–animal intergroup relations, moral psychology, and behaviour change.
For more info check out the blog at www.thedealwithanimals.com

Guest Book Recommendations List