The Sacred Slope

50. Same Faith. Different Beliefs. Still Christian. (Part 1) – Rev. Gerlyn Henry (Anglican, Canada), Pastor Paul Drees (ELCA Lutheran, USA) & Pastor Joe Smith (Raised Evangelical, USA)
What if something you were taught you had to believe to be Christian was something millions of other Christians were never taught at all?
That question exploded after a Sacred Slope “Put Your Finger Down: Christian Edition” video reached more than a million views across platforms. The comments were filled with Christians from different traditions essentially asking one another: Wait…you were taught WHAT?
So Alexis Rice reunites with Rev. Gerlyn Henry, Pastor Paul Drees, and Pastor Joe Smith for the conversation a two-minute video couldn’t hold.
Alexis and Joe were formed in American evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity. Gerlyn is an Anglican priest in Canada. Paul is an ELCA Lutheran pastor in the U.S. They share a faith - but they were formed with remarkably different assumptions about what Christians must believe.
In Part One, they compare notes on Genesis and the talking snake, biblical literalism, evolution, the sinner’s prayer, salvation, hell, baptism, confession, grace, and universalism.
For Alexis and Joe, some of these beliefs once carried enormous stakes: Believe this. Pray this. Get this right. Your salvation may depend on it. For Gerlyn and Paul, some were never requirements at all.
The result isn’t a debate over who is the “right” Christian. It’s an honest, funny, sometimes painful conversation about what happens when we become curious about the Christianity outside the one that formed us - and discover that questioning something we inherited doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning Jesus.
Same faith. Different beliefs. Still Christian.
💬 In This Episode
• “Wait - you weren’t taught that?”
• Genesis, talking snakes & biblical literalism
• Creation, evolution & reading Scripture differently
• Is the sinner’s prayer required for salvation?
• Hell, baptism, confession & grace
• Universalism & hopeful universalism
• Religious trauma & the fear of questioning
• Deconstructing certainty without abandoning Jesus
• Saving people from hell vs. bringing heaven to earth
• Discovering Christianity beyond the version you inherited
⛪ Meet the Pastors
• Rev. Gerlyn Henry - @gerlynhenry - Anglican priest, Canada
 • Pastor Paul Drees - @pastorpauldrees - ELCA Lutheran pastor, USA
 • Pastor Joe Smith - @therealjoe.smith raised Free Will Baptist/evangelical; Disciples of Christ pastor, USA
📚 People & Resources Mentioned
• Pete Enns - @peteenns - The Sin of Certainty
• Pastor Meredith Anne Miller - @meredithannemiller - Wonder & Woven
• Brian Recker - @berecker - Hell Bent
• Bradley Jersak - @bradley.jersak - A More Christlike God
• C.S. Lewis - “true myth”
• Nadia Bolz-Weber - @sarcasticlutheran
• Dolores Williams
• Brené Brown - @brenebrown
• Church Clarity - @churchclarity
• AllianceQ
• 1946 @1946themovie
🎧 Part One of a special two-part Sacred Slope conversation.
Support the show
About The Sacred Slope
Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.
🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)
🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: alexis@thesacredslope.com
🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

49. Matthew Paul Turner – (Author, When I Thank God) Giving Our Kids a Faith They Don’t Have to Heal From
New York Times bestselling children’s author Matthew Paul Turner joins The Sacred Slope for a conversation about the stories we tell children about God—and the ones many adults are still learning to tell themselves.
Alexis and Matthew explore why children don’t get to choose their first picture of God, how children’s books can become unexpected spaces of healing for adults deconstructing harmful theology, and what it means to raise kids with a faith rooted in love, belonging, gratitude, justice, and the teachings of Jesus.
Matthew shares the story behind his new book, When I Thank God, illustrated by David Catrow, and why gratitude has remained one of the few spiritual practices that stayed with him through fundamentalism, deconstruction, coming out, and rebuilding his faith.
They also talk honestly about Christian nationalism, the Americanization of Christianity, why humility and justice are central to following Jesus, LGBTQ+ inclusion, and what Christians can actually do to make their communities more loving.
And Matthew reflects movingly on his friendship with the late Rachel Held Evans, finishing the children’s books she left behind, and why her legacy continues to change lives.
💬 In This Episode
• Giving children a picture of God they won’t have to heal from
• Why children’s books can help deconstructing adults heal
• When I Thank God and gratitude as a spiritual practice
• Following Jesus in an age of Christian nationalism
• Deconstructing whiteness and Americanized Christianity
• Why humility, justice, compassion, and belonging matter
• LGBTQ+ inclusion and showing up visibly for your neighbors
• The Growing Wall of Love at World Pride Amsterdam
• Matthew’s friendship with Rachel Held Evans
• Finishing Rachel’s children’s books after her death
• What Is God Like? and the upcoming Who Is Jesus?
• Rebuilding a Christianity centered on making things better, more hopeful, and more loving
📚 Matthew Paul Turner
Matthew is the bestselling author of When God Made You, When God Made Light, You Will Always Belong, and the new When I Thank God.
Follow Matthew: @matthewpaulturner
👥 People & Resources Mentioned
• Rachel Held Evans – @rachelheldevans
• Sarah Bessey – @sarahbessey
• Meredith Anne Miller – @meredithannemiller
• Rocky Roggio / 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture – @rockyroggio
• Jarko de Witte van Leeuwen / The Growing Wall of Love – @thegrowingwalloflove
• David Catrow – @davidcatrow illustrator of When I Thank God
• Danny McBride / The Righteous Gemstones @therighteousgemstones
📖 When I Thank God releases August 18
Pre-Order from The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope
Support the show
About The Sacred Slope
Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.
🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)
🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: alexis@thesacredslope.com
🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

48. John Fugelsang –  (Aspiring Christian) Separation of Church and Hate: Reclaiming Jesus from Christian Nationalism
John Fugelsang returns to The Sacred Slope for a deeper conversation about the book Alexis named the very first Sacred Slope Book of the Year: Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds.
Together, they explore why so many Christians and non-Christians alike have embraced the book, what it means to distinguish the teachings of Jesus from Christian nationalism, and why reclaiming Christianity from fear, power, and authoritarianism matters now more than ever.
John reflects on growing up with faith, writing a New York Times bestselling book that speaks to believers and skeptics alike, and why he believes Jesus remains one of history’s most radically compassionate voices. Alexis and John also discuss biblical literacy, Matthew 25, Christian resistance throughout history, and how ordinary Christians can push back against the weaponization of faith without becoming consumed by hatred themselves.
Whether you’re deconstructing, reconstructing, politically exhausted, or simply longing for a Christianity that looks more like Jesus than power, this conversation offers hope, humor, and practical ways to engage difficult conversations with compassion and courage.
📚 Listeners outside the U.S.: Separation of Church and Hate is now available internationally!
💬 In This Episode
• Why Separation of Church and Hate became The Sacred Slope’s first Book of the Year
• What surprised John most after the book became a New York Times bestseller
• Why Christians, atheists, and agnostics are embracing the book
• Christianity versus Christian nationalism
• Following Jesus versus simply following the Bible
• Matthew 25 and the teachings Jesus actually emphasized
• Why Jesus challenged power, wealth, and religious coercion
• Christian resistance throughout history—from the abolitionists to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
• Christian nationalism, fear, power, and authoritarianism
• How to respond to difficult conversations using scripture with compassion rather than contempt
• Why reclaiming Jesus matters for believers and non-believers alike
Congratulations to This Year’s Book of the Year Nominees!
📖 Braving the Truth – @rachelheldevans & @sarahbessey
📖 Hell Bent – @berecker
📖 We Can Be Brave & I Can Learn to Be Brave – Bishop @mariannbudde
📖 Live Laugh Love – @kkdumez
📖 The Small and the Mighty & We Are Mighty – @sharonsaysso
📖 Separation of Church and Hate – @johnfugelsang
📖 American Idolatry – @ndrewwhitehead
📖 Queer & Christian – Rev. @brandanrobertson
📖 Awake – @jenhatmaker
📖 Wonder – Pastor @meredithannemiller
🏆 The Sacred Slope Book of the Year
John Fugelsang
Separation of Church and Hate
Congratulations, @johnfugelsang, and thank you to every author who shared your wisdom with The Sacred Slope community this year.
👥 People & Resources Mentioned
• Mayor Zohran Mamdani – @zohrankmamdani & @nycmayor
 • Simon Moya-Smith – @simonsaidtakeapic
 • Julie Francella – @juliefrancella
 • Jordan Klepper – @jordanklepper
 • The Daily Show – @thedailyshow
Support the show
About The Sacred Slope
Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.
🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)
🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: alexis@thesacredslope.com
🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

47. Rev. Jim Keat, Rev. Reilly Paige, & Rev. Dr. Chris Davies (United Church of Christ) – Preaching Camp: The Ties That Bind
Alexis sits down in person at Project Proclaim Preaching Camp with Rev. Reilly Paige, Rev. Dr. Chris Davies, and Rev. Jim Keat for a funny, moving, and deeply hopeful conversation about the ties that bind us - to Jesus, to one another, and to a faith larger than fear, fundamentalism, or the loudest version of American Christianity.
Together, they explore what keeps them following Jesus and what happens when Christians from evangelical and mainline traditions learn to speak across very different theological languages. Reilly shares what it means to be the pastor they needed growing up and why the word “Christian” now requires follow-up questions. Chris describes Jesus as friend, teacher, organizer, prophet, and a model for resisting empire. Jim reflects on Christianity as the spiritual language he inherited - and how digital ministry can create genuine church community far beyond a sanctuary.
Whether you are deconstructing, rebuilding, missing church, or wondering whether you can fall in love with Jesus again, this conversation offers a vision of Christianity rooted in relationship, curiosity, courage, belonging, and genuinely good news.
💬 In This Episode
• What keeps Rev Reilly, Rev Dr Chris, and Rev Jim following Jesus
• The ties that bind us to faith and one another
• Falling in love with Jesus beyond fear and fundamentalism
• Evangelical and mainline Christian “languages”
• The rapture, hell, Bible literalism, sexuality, and forbidden questions
• Being the pastor you needed growing up
• Queer Christian leadership
• Reclaiming the word “Christian”
• Preaching as the proclamation of good news
• Why progressive pastors need to show up online
• Digital ministry, online communion, and real church community
• A closing prayer for anyone deconstructing, healing, or searching for home
👥 People & Resources Mentioned
• Rev. Reilly Paige – @rangerreilly
• Rev. Dr. Chris Davies – @jesuslovesdinos
• Rev. Jim Keat – @revjimruns
• Project Proclaim – @project_proclaim
• Southern New England Conference UCC – @sneucc
• United Church of Christ – @unitedchurchofchrist
• The Riverside Church – @riversidenyc
• Bible in a Minute – @bibleinamin
• Pastor Cody Deese – @codydeese
• April Ajoy – @aprilajoy
• Rev. Bethany Peerbolte – @rev.bethany
• Rocky Roggio director of 1946 the movie - @rockyroggio
•  1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted A Culture - @1946themovie
Support the show
About The Sacred Slope
Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.
🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)
🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: alexis@thesacredslope.com
🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

46. Meredith Miller (Non-Denominational Pastor, Author) – Wonder: Talking to Your Kids About God When You're Still Figuring It Out
Alexis sits down with non-denominational pastor, author, and children's faith expert Meredith Miller for one of the most practical and hope-filled conversations yet about parenting after deconstruction and teaching the Bible to your kids when you're still figuring out your own faith.
Author of Wonder: A Grown-Up's Guide to Exploring the Bible with Children and Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn't Have to Heal From, Meredith has spent more than 20 years helping families cultivate emotionally healthy, curiosity-filled Christian faith. Together, Alexis and Meredith explore how to talk with kids about God, Genesis, evolution, Adam and Eve, a talking snake, Revelation, the rapture, hell, and difficult Bible passages without fear, shame, or pretending to have all the answers.
Whether you're rebuilding your faith after evangelical fundamentalism, navigating deconstruction, or simply wondering how to introduce your children to Christianity in a healthier way, this conversation offers practical tools, deep encouragement, and a vision of faith rooted in trust, curiosity, compassion, and the teachings of Jesus.
💬 In This Episode
• Meredith's book Wonder: A Grown-Up's Guide to Exploring the Bible with Children
• Teaching the Bible to kids when you don't have all the answers
• Parenting after deconstruction
• Raising curious kids instead of fearful kids
• Why Genesis is a poem, not a science textbook
• Evolution and Christian faith
• Talking to kids about Adam and Eve
• How to answer difficult Bible questions
• Hell, Revelation, and why the rapture isn't in the Bible
• Bible literalism, curiosity, and healthy faith formation
• Church hurt, evangelicalism, and rebuilding trust
• Learning alongside our children instead of having all the answers
• A beautiful closing prayer for anyone healing from religious trauma
👥 People & Resources Mentioned
• Meredith Miller – @meredithannemiller
• Wonder: A Grown-Up's Guide to Exploring the Bible with Children is available on The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope
• Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn't Have to Heal From
• Pastor Kristen Mockler Young – @kristenmockleryoung, Author: The Other Side of Certainty (coming soon!)
• Fuller Youth Institute @fulleryouthinstitute 
• Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray @janetkelloggray
Support the show
About The Sacred Slope
Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.
🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)
🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: alexis@thesacredslope.com
🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control