Complicated Kids

Not speaking is not the same thing as not having something to say.
In this episode, I'm joined by Elizabeth Vosseller, founder of Spelling to Communicate and Executive Director of I-ASC, the International Association for Spelling as Communication.
And we are talking about communication.
Not the easy kind.
Not the "say what you mean with your mouth and everyone understands what is happening" kind.
We are talking about what happens when a person has thoughts, language, ideas, preferences, humor, opinions, and vocabulary, but cannot reliably use speech to share them.
Elizabeth explains that Spelling to Communicate (S2C) is a method of teaching communication to nonspeaking people. And nonspeaking is the word we want here, not nonverbal.
Because nonverbal means without words.
And the people Elizabeth works with are not without words.
They may have no speech, very few spoken words, or lots of speech that is not reliable or communicative. They may script, loop, say the opposite of what they mean, or struggle to get their bodies to do what their brains are asking them to do.
Which brings us to one of the biggest themes in this conversation: communication is motor.
Speech is motor. Typing is motor. Pointing is motor. Signing is motor. Getting an idea out of your brain and into the world requires the body to participate.
And for some kids and adults, that is where things get complicated.
Elizabeth walks us through praxis, which is the process of having an idea, making a plan, executing the plan, and adapting when something does not go the way it was supposed to go. For people with apraxia or dyspraxia, the idea may be there. The plan may be there. But the message between the brain and the body may not move smoothly.
And if we do not understand that, we can make some very big mistakes.
We can look at a child who is not following a direction and assume they are being noncompliant.
We can look at a child who is hitting, grabbing, bolting, or making sounds and assume the behavior is intentional in a way it may not be.
We can look at a nonspeaking child and assume there are no words inside.
That is a dangerous assumption.
Elizabeth and I also talk about rich language environments, spelling, reading, communication regulation partners, and why support does not automatically mean influence when the support is trained, careful, and ethical.
This conversation is especially close to my speech therapist heart because it asks us to slow down and separate language from speech, communication from behavior, and intention from motor access.
Which is not always easy.
But it matters.
Because when we assume a child has nothing to say, we may stop offering them enough to think about.
When we assume a behavior tells the whole story, we may miss what the body is struggling to do.
And when we assume speech is the only real path to communication, we may miss the person who has been there the whole time.
Key Takeaways
Nonspeaking is different from nonverbal. Nonspeaking means a person cannot use speech reliably and effectively.
Nonverbal means without words, which can wrongly suggest a person does not have language, thoughts, or vocabulary.
Spelling to Communicate (S2C) teaches nonspeaking people to use pointing to letters as a motor-based way to communicate.
Communication depends on the body. Speech, typing, pointing, signing, and texting all require motor planning and motor execution.
Praxis involves having an idea, making a plan, executing the plan, and adapting when something does not work.
Apraxia and dyspraxia can create a breakdown between what a person intends to do and what their body is able to do on demand.
A purely behavioral lens can lead adults to misunderstand kids whose bodies are not reliably following their intentions.
Rich language and literacy exposure matter, even when a child is not speaking.
Communication regulation partners provide motor coaching, sensory feedback, and regulation support when they are properly trained.
Assuming competence means being careful about what we say, what we offer, and what we believe may be possible.
About Elizabeth Vosseller
Elizabeth Vosseller is the founder of Spelling to Communicate and Executive Director of I-ASC. Since 1995, she has worked clinically with individuals with complex communication and sensory-motor differences across hospital, university, and private settings. Her work focuses on motor-based access to communication, advancing education, training, and research for nonspeaking individuals.
About Your Host, Gabriele Nicolet
I'm Gabriele Nicolet, toddler whisperer, speech therapist, parenting life coach, and host of Complicated Kids. Each week, I share practical, relationship-based strategies for raising kids with big feelings, big needs, and beautifully different brains. My goal is to help families move from surviving to thriving by building connection, confidence, and clarity at home.
Complicated Kids Resources and Links
Website: https://www.gabrielenicolet.com
Schedule a free intro call: https://calendly.com/gabrielenicolet/free-15-minute-1-1-session
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@complicatedkids/featured
Tell the Story (Anti-Anxiety Tool for Kids): https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/tell-the-story
Blog: https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/blog
Live Workshops: https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/live-workshops
On-Demand Workshops: https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/workshop-replays
Instagram: https://instagram.com/gabriele_nicolet
Facebook: https://facebook.com/gabriele.nicolet
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielenicolet/
Free "Orchid Kid" Checklist: https://www.raisingorchidkids.com/orchid-kid-check-list-sign-up/
Enjoying the Show?
If Complicated Kids has been helpful, the best way to support the podcast is to follow, rate, and leave a quick review. It helps other parents find the show, and it means a lot.
If there's a topic you'd love to hear covered on a future episode, you can always reach out at podcast@complicatedkids.com. I love hearing what's on your mind and what would support your family.
Thank you for being here. 💛

Some kids are not unfocused. They just have not found the thing that gives their focus somewhere to go.
In this episode, I'm joined by Scott Proposki, a photographer, author, business coach, and founder of the Camera Focus Method™.
Scott is a former National Geographic and White House photographer, which is the kind of sentence that makes you immediately want to know more.
But what I was most interested in for this conversation was not just what Scott has done.
It was how his brain got him there.
Scott talks about growing up as the kid who did not do homework, who needed the deadline, who was thrilled with a C minus, and who later received an ADHD diagnosis that helped a lot of his life make more sense.
And then he found the camera.
For Scott, the camera became the thing that helped his attention organize itself. It gave him a focus, a direction, a way to see the world and make that seeing useful.
Which is where I think this conversation becomes really relevant for parents of complicated kids.
Because so many of our kids have uneven profiles. They may struggle deeply in one environment and come alive in another. They may look distracted, disorganized, or unmotivated until the right project, tool, topic, person, deadline, or vision snaps something into place.
And then suddenly, there they are.
Scott and I talk about creativity, ADHD, hyperfocus, business, reinvention, and what happens when the thing that made you different as a kid becomes part of the way you build a life.
We also talk about the adults around kids. The ones who notice the spark. The ones who help kids imagine what could be possible. The ones who do not only say, "Do your homework," but also help paint a picture of where a child's gifts might take them.
This is not a conversation about ignoring the hard parts.
Kids still need support. They need skills. They need structure. They need adults who can help them function in a world that will not always organize itself around their preferred interests.
But they also need adults who remember that school performance is not the whole child.
Sometimes the thing that does not look impressive on a report card is the thing that later becomes a career, a calling, a business, or a life.
And sometimes our job is to widen the lens long enough to help them find it.
Key Takeaways
A child who struggles in school may still have strong focus, creativity, drive, and vision in another setting.
ADHD-style attention is not always a lack of attention. Sometimes it is attention that organizes around interest, urgency, purpose, or possibility.
Hyperfocus can be a strength when it is paired with the right tool, project, or direction.
For Scott, the camera became the thing that helped his focus, creativity, and sense of purpose come together.
Some kids need help finding the medium, environment, or "magic wand" that allows their strengths to show up.
A later-in-life ADHD diagnosis can help adults make sense of patterns they have lived with for years.
School performance matters, but it is not the whole story of who a child is or what they may become.
Creative and neurodivergent kids may need structure, deadlines, and support that match how their brains actually work.
Parents can help by noticing sparks, naming strengths, and painting a picture of what could be possible.
A complicated path can still become a meaningful, successful, and deeply creative life.
About Scott Proposki
Scott Proposki is a photographer, author, business coach, and founder of the Camera Focus Method™. A former National Geographic and White House photographer, he has spent 27 years documenting stories for global brands and high-profile clients.
He is the author of four books, including Camera Focus. Scott is dedicated to helping creative entrepreneurs build resilient, sustainable businesses rooted in clarity and purpose.
About Your Host, Gabriele Nicolet
I'm Gabriele Nicolet, toddler whisperer, speech therapist, parenting life coach, and host of Complicated Kids. Each week, I share practical, relationship-based strategies for raising kids with big feelings, big needs, and beautifully different brains. My goal is to help families move from surviving to thriving by building connection, confidence, and clarity at home.
Complicated Kids Resources and Links
🌎 www.gabrielenicolet.com
📅 Schedule a free intro call: https://calendly.com/gabrielenicolet/free-15-minute-1-1-session
📺 Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@complicatedkids/featured
👾 Grab Tell the Story (anti-anxiety tool for kids): https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/tell-the-story
➡️ Instagram: https://instagram.com/gabriele_nicolet
➡️ Facebook: https://facebook.com/gabriele.nicolet
➡️ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielenicolet/
🌺 Free "Orchid Kid" Checklist: https://www.raisingorchidkids.com/orchid-kid-check-list-sign-up/
Enjoying the Show?
If Complicated Kids has been helpful, the best way to support the podcast is to follow, rate, and leave a quick review. It helps other parents find the show, and it means a lot.
If there's a topic you'd love to hear covered on a future episode, you can always reach out at podcast@complicatedkids.com. I love hearing what's on your mind and what would support your family.
Thank you for being here. 💛

Some kids are not unfocused. They just have not found the thing that gives their focus somewhere to go.
In this episode, I'm joined by Scott Proposki, a photographer, author, business coach, and founder of the Camera Focus Method™.
Scott is a former National Geographic and White House photographer, which is the kind of sentence that makes you immediately want to know more.
But what I was most interested in for this conversation was not just what Scott has done.
It was how his brain got him there.
Scott talks about growing up as the kid who did not do homework, who needed the deadline, who was thrilled with a C minus, and who later received an ADHD diagnosis that helped a lot of his life make more sense.
And then he found the camera.
For Scott, the camera became the thing that helped his attention organize itself. It gave him a focus, a direction, a way to see the world and make that seeing useful.
Which is where I think this conversation becomes really relevant for parents of complicated kids.
Because so many of our kids have uneven profiles. They may struggle deeply in one environment and come alive in another. They may look distracted, disorganized, or unmotivated until the right project, tool, topic, person, deadline, or vision snaps something into place.
And then suddenly, there they are.
Scott and I talk about creativity, ADHD, hyperfocus, business, reinvention, and what happens when the thing that made you different as a kid becomes part of the way you build a life.
We also talk about the adults around kids. The ones who notice the spark. The ones who help kids imagine what could be possible. The ones who do not only say, "Do your homework," but also help paint a picture of where a child's gifts might take them.
This is not a conversation about ignoring the hard parts.
Kids still need support. They need skills. They need structure. They need adults who can help them function in a world that will not always organize itself around their preferred interests.
But they also need adults who remember that school performance is not the whole child.
Sometimes the thing that does not look impressive on a report card is the thing that later becomes a career, a calling, a business, or a life.
And sometimes our job is to widen the lens long enough to help them find it.
Key Takeaways
A child who struggles in school may still have strong focus, creativity, drive, and vision in another setting.
ADHD-style attention is not always a lack of attention. Sometimes it is attention that organizes around interest, urgency, purpose, or possibility.
Hyperfocus can be a strength when it is paired with the right tool, project, or direction.
For Scott, the camera became the thing that helped his focus, creativity, and sense of purpose come together.
Some kids need help finding the medium, environment, or "magic wand" that allows their strengths to show up.
A later-in-life ADHD diagnosis can help adults make sense of patterns they have lived with for years.
School performance matters, but it is not the whole story of who a child is or what they may become.
Creative and neurodivergent kids may need structure, deadlines, and support that match how their brains actually work.
Parents can help by noticing sparks, naming strengths, and painting a picture of what could be possible.
A complicated path can still become a meaningful, successful, and deeply creative life.
About Scott Proposki
Scott Proposki is a photographer, author, business coach, and founder of the Camera Focus Method™. A former National Geographic and White House photographer, he has spent 27 years documenting stories for global brands and high-profile clients.
He is the author of four books, including Camera Focus. Scott is dedicated to helping creative entrepreneurs build resilient, sustainable businesses rooted in clarity and purpose.
About Your Host, Gabriele Nicolet
I'm Gabriele Nicolet, toddler whisperer, speech therapist, parenting life coach, and host of Complicated Kids. Each week, I share practical, relationship-based strategies for raising kids with big feelings, big needs, and beautifully different brains. My goal is to help families move from surviving to thriving by building connection, confidence, and clarity at home.
Complicated Kids Resources and Links
🌎 www.gabrielenicolet.com
📅 Schedule a free intro call: https://calendly.com/gabrielenicolet/free-15-minute-1-1-session
📺 Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@complicatedkids/featured
👾 Grab Tell the Story (anti-anxiety tool for kids): https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/tell-the-story
➡️ Instagram: https://instagram.com/gabriele_nicolet
➡️ Facebook: https://facebook.com/gabriele.nicolet
➡️ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielenicolet/
🌺 Free "Orchid Kid" Checklist: https://www.raisingorchidkids.com/orchid-kid-check-list-sign-up/
Enjoying the Show?
If Complicated Kids has been helpful, the best way to support the podcast is to follow, rate, and leave a quick review. It helps other parents find the show, and it means a lot.
If there's a topic you'd love to hear covered on a future episode, reach out at podcast@complicatedkids.com. I'd love to hear what would support your family.
Thank you for being here.

You can understand why your child is struggling and still be completely triggered by it.
In this episode, I'm joined by Jacqi Trombley, a licensed clinical social worker, trauma specialist, and Level 2 trained IFS therapist, for a conversation about Internal Family Systems.
Internal Family Systems, or IFS, is a therapy model that helps us understand the different parts inside us. Not in a "there is something wrong with you" way. More in a "of course you have more than one reaction happening at the same time" way.
There may be a part of you that understands why your child is struggling.
There may also be a part of you that is scared, embarrassed, angry, overwhelmed, or thinking, "Absolutely not. This cannot be what we are doing right now."
That is where this conversation gets so useful for parents.
Jacqi walks us through some of the parts language in IFS, including managers, exiles, and firefighters. We talk about why the goal is not to get rid of the anxious part, the angry part, the critical part, or the part that wants everyone to stop making noise immediately.
The goal is to understand what those parts are trying to protect.
Because so many parents can understand, intellectually, why their child is having a hard time and still feel completely activated by what is happening. We can know our child is neurodivergent, anxious, sensory overloaded, exhausted, or developmentally not where other kids are, and still have something inside us light up.
That does not mean we are failing.
It means something in us may need attention too.
Jacqui and I talk about what happens when a child's dysregulation activates a parent's dysregulation. A child comes home tired, hungry, overwhelmed, or upset, and instead of saying, "I had a hard day and I need help," they poke their sibling, throw something, get loud, refuse the thing, or push every available button.
And then, of course, something in us responds.
IFS gives us another way to understand that moment. It helps us notice what might be happening inside the child and inside ourselves before everything becomes one big reaction. It gives us language for the part that wants to yell, the part that wants to disappear, the part that wants to fix everything, and the part that is quietly scared underneath it all.
We also talk about trauma, inner child work, neurodivergence, and the power of witnessing the parts of ourselves that did not get what they needed at the time.
And yes, IFS can sound a little hokey from the outside.
Also, it can be deeply moving.
This conversation is not about becoming a perfectly calm parent who never gets triggered. Please. We live here on Earth.
It is about having another way to understand what is happening when your child's struggle touches something tender, scared, angry, or overwhelmed inside you.
And sometimes that little bit of space is where things can begin to change.
Key Takeaways
Internal Family Systems, or IFS, is a therapy model that helps us understand the different parts inside us.
Parts are not treated as bad in IFS. They are usually trying to protect something.
A parent can understand why their child is struggling and still feel completely triggered by what is happening.
Managers are the parts that try to keep things under control, prevent pain, and help us avoid rejection, shame, or failure.
Exiles are often younger parts carrying pain, fear, shame, grief, or unmet needs.
Firefighters are reactive parts that jump in quickly when something feels too overwhelming to tolerate.
Trying to banish a part usually does not work because that part believes it has an important job.
A child's dysregulation can quickly activate a parent's protective parts too.
Neurodivergent kids may have repeated experiences of being misunderstood, misread, corrected, or left without help processing what happened.
Parts work can help parents create enough space to notice what is happening inside themselves before responding from the most activated place.
About Jacqi Trombley
Jacqi Trombley is a licensed clinical social worker with more than 15 years of experience. She was trained as a trauma specialist by the Ferentz Institute in Baltimore and is a Level 2 trained IFS therapist. Her clinical background includes trauma, grief, depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, neurodiversity-affirming psychotherapy, and work across multiple settings including treatment foster care, homeless shelters, outpatient mental health clinics, and private practice.
Jacqi has also administered psychosocial assessments for the Office of the Public Defender, led wellness groups for human service providers, hosted mental health seminars for private companies, and taught at the University of Maryland School of Social Work on oppression, privilege, cultural humility, and anti-oppression practice.
About Your Host, Gabriele Nicolet
I'm Gabriele Nicolet, toddler whisperer, speech therapist, parenting life coach, and host of Complicated Kids. Each week, I share practical, relationship-based strategies for raising kids with big feelings, big needs, and beautifully different brains. My goal is to help families move from surviving to thriving by building connection, confidence, and clarity at home.
Complicated Kids Resources and Links:
🌎 www.gabrielenicolet.com
📅 Schedule a free intro call: https://calendly.com/gabrielenicolet/free-15-minute-1-1-session
📺 Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@complicatedkids/featured
👾 Grab Tell the Story (anti-anxiety tool for kids): https://www.gabrielenicolet.com/tell-the-story
➡️ Instagram: https://instagram.com/gabriele_nicolet
➡️ Facebook: https://facebook.com/gabriele.nicolet
➡️ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielenicolet/
🌺 Free "Orchid Kid" Checklist: https://www.raisingorchidkids.com/orchid-kid-check-list-sign-up/
Enjoying the show?
If Complicated Kids has been helpful, the best way to support the podcast is to follow, rate, and leave a quick review. It helps other parents find the show and it means a lot.
If there's a topic you'd love to hear covered on a future episode, you can always reach out at podcast@complicatedkids.com. I love hearing what's on your mind and what would support your family.
Thank you for being here.

Screens are not going anywhere, which means our kids need more than rules. They need guidance.
I'll be honest. This is one of those topics where people tend to have feelings.
Big ones.
And fair enough. Screens can be a mess. They can also be useful, regulating, connecting, necessary, and sometimes genuinely helpful, especially for neurodivergent kids.
So I was glad to have this conversation with Leslie Tyler from Pinwheel because we got to stay in the nuance.
Leslie is Head of Parent Education at Pinwheel, a company that makes devices designed for kids and managed by parents. We name that right away in the episode because yes, Pinwheel sells devices. And also, this conversation is not really about one product.
It is about the questions parents need to ask before a device shows up in the house.
What is this device for? Is it about safety? Transportation? After-school coordination? Social connection? Learning support? Independence?
Because those are not all the same thing, and they do not require the same plan.
We also talk about why there is no magic age when a child is suddenly "ready" for a phone.
That answer is probably less satisfying than any of us would like.
It would be very convenient if someone could just tell us the exact right age and then we could all feel like excellent parents. But that is not how this works.
Instead, Leslie encourages parents to think about the child in front of them, the purpose of the device, and the kind of support that child will need to use technology well.
We talk about phones, watches, apps, games, image texting, parental controls, bedtime charging stations, school phone rules, notifications, and why starting small is usually easier than trying to walk things back later.
One of the biggest themes in this episode is that parental controls are useful, but they are not the whole strategy. Kids need guardrails, yes. They also need conversation, modeling, practice, and adults who are willing to stay involved without pretending they can control everything.
Because technology is here.
Our kids are going to use it.
So the work is not just keeping screens away forever. The work is helping kids build judgment, awareness, and a healthier relationship with the devices that are already part of the world they live in.
Key Takeaways
Screens are not automatically good or bad. The question is how, when, why, and for whom they are being used.
There is no one right age when every child is suddenly ready for a phone.
The better starting question is what your child actually needs the device to do.
Wanting a phone because friends have one is different from needing a device for safety, transportation, communication, or independence.
Starting with limited access is usually easier than trying to take access away later.
Watches, phones, and tablets all come with different benefits, limitations, and risks.
The device should fit the child's needs, not just the family's convenience or the social pressure around them.
Apps, games, image texting, notifications, and bedroom access all deserve real thought before the device arrives.
Parental controls are helpful tools, but they are not a complete parenting strategy.
The long-term goal is to help kids build judgment, awareness, and the ability to stay in the driver's seat of their technology.
About Leslie Tyler
Leslie Tyler is Head of Parent Education at Pinwheel, a company that creates devices designed for kids and managed by parents. Through her work, Leslie helps families think more intentionally about children, technology, independence, and digital safety. She supports parents in introducing devices gradually, having ongoing conversations, and helping kids use technology in ways that are constructive, age-appropriate, and connected to real-life responsibility.
About Your Host, Gabriele Nicolet
I'm Gabriele Nicolet, toddler whisperer, speech therapist, parenting life coach, and host of Complicated Kids. Each week, I share practical, relationship-based strategies for raising kids with big feelings, big needs, and beautifully different brains. My goal is to help families move from surviving to thriving by building connection, confidence, and clarity at home.
Complicated Kids Resources and Links
🌎 www.gabrielenicolet.com
📅 Schedule a free intro call: Book Here
📺 Subscribe on YouTube: Complicated Kids YouTube
👾 Grab Tell the Story: Tell the Story
➡️ Instagram: Instagram
➡️ Facebook: Facebook
➡️ LinkedIn: LinkedIn
🌺 Free Orchid Kid Checklist: Download Here
Enjoying the Show?
If Complicated Kids has been helpful, the best way to support the podcast is to follow, rate, and leave a quick review. It helps other parents find the show and it means a lot.
If there's a topic you'd love to hear covered on a future episode, you can always reach out at podcast@complicatedkids.com. I love hearing what's on your mind and what would support your family.
Thank you for being here.