With money, power and political standing at stake, America’s relationship with China is tenuous. But it wasn’t always that way.
The Great Wager is a five-part series that tells the story of the extraordinary encounter between Richard Nixon and Mao Zedong in 1972 that brought these two countries together, the secret collaborations born from that meeting — and the reverberations we’re still feeling today. We’re thrilled to be re-airing this series this summer, while we’re busily preparing season 3 of Face Off behind the scenes.
This is episode 1. President Richard Nixon has a plan: He wants to go to China. The only problem? The U.S. and China have had zero contact since the Communist Party took over China more than two decades before. The Great Wager host Jane Perlez digs into the beginning of Nixon’s improbable diplomatic mission.
The Great Wager was produced in 2022 with Here & Now and WBUR Podcasts. This special presentation of The Great Wager is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network.
Book Recommendations:
Nixon and Mao: The Week that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan. An insider look at how Nixon and Kissinger operated in Beijing.
Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People's Republic by Mike Chinoy. Chapter 4: How American reporters, who knew little about China, covered the presidential trip
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Criss-Crossing China
In this bonus episode of Face-Off Jane speaks with former ambassador to China, Nicholas Burns. They discuss Ambassador Burns’ encounters with the Chinese leader Xi Jinping, his meetings with American CEOs, and his travels to remote places in China.
BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS:
To Change China, by Jonathan D. Spence
The Private Life of Chairman Mao, by Zhi-Sui Li
Chip Wars, by Chris Miller
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From Mao to Xi Jinping: A Conversation with Orville Schell
In a special bonus episode recorded live at the Asia Society, host Jane Perlez speaks with journalist and scholar Orville Schell about his 50 years covering Chinese leaders and their American counterparts. They attempt to answer the question: how did we get here?
Recorded live at The Asia Society on April 8, 2025
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Soulmates: Xi and Putin
China and Russia have rarely been friendly - until now. Xi and Putin have been open about their bromance, exchanging gifts, sharing lavish dinners, even celebrating a birthday together. Are the two dictators, Xi and Putin, aiming to forge a new arrangement in the world that diminishes the traditional role of the United States? Our guest, Lyle Goldstein, former professor at US Naval War College, and now teaching at Brown University, is an expert on China and Russia. He talks about the new order under President Trump, and how Russia and China, aligned with each other, approach the US in different ways.
Guest: Lyle Goldstein: Former professor at US Naval War College, now at Brown University.
Book Recommendations:
Crisis of Democratic Capitalism by Martin Wolf
China and Russia by Philip Snow.
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network.
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AI Superpower: US or China?
China’s leader, Xi Jinping, has given China five years to dominate Artificial Intelligence. He believes China must accomplish this goal in order to become the world’s tech giant. But the United States is doing everything it can to stop China from reaching its goal. Can Washington stop US and European advanced chips from reaching China? It seems not, as the arrival of DeepSeek shows. Will AI development be throttled by the Chinese government’s heavy censorship? Can China achieve its goal?
Guest: Karen Hao, journalist and engineer. Writing appears in The Atlantic, Wall Street Journal. Author of the upcoming Empire of AI.
Book Recommendations:
AI Superpowers: China, Silicon Valley and the New World Order by Kai-Fu Lee
Superagency: What Could Possibly Go Right with Our AI Future by Reid Hoffman and Greg Beato
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face-Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network.
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FACE-OFF: US vs CHINA is an inside look at the turbulent relationship between the world's two superpowers, the two men in charge, and the vital issues that affect us all.
FACE-OFF is hosted by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Jane Perlez, former New York Times Beijing bureau chief and current fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center. In each episode Professor Rana Mitter, recently of the University of Oxford and now professor of modern China at the Harvard Kennedy School, chats with Jane on what’s at stake.
New Zealand