Future Learning Design Podcast

• Can We Make Spaces for Knowledge Systems to Coexist, Without Duress? - A Conversation Prof. Catherine Odora Hoppers

  As you will have heard on many previous episodes of the podcast, with Marie Battiste, Carl Mika, Wakanyi Hoffman, Vanessa Andreotti and others, understanding the ways in which our colonial schooling systems have propogated one particular way of knowing our world, and excluded and often violently suppressed many others is something that I care deeply about. For me, it has to be a key part of any transformative work that we do to, with humility and curiosity, to reorient education systems. But in order to do this, we need people who are able to gather and convene the critical conversations that put these ways of knowing in dialogue with each other. It is therefore the greatest honour to have Professor Catherine Odora Hoppers joining me on the podcast this week. For her entire career Dr Hoppers has been at the forefront of facilitating these vital conversations. In post-Apartheid South Africa, she designed and enabled the process that led to the first national policy on the recognition, development and protection of indigenous knowledge systems. Professor Catherine Odora Hoppers is a scholar and policy specialist on International Development, education, North-South questions, disarmament, peace, and human security. She is a UNESCO expert in basic education, lifelong learning, information systems and on Science and Society; an expert in disarmament at the UN Department of Disarmament Affairs; an expert to the World Economic Forum on benefit sharing and value addition protocols; and the World Intellectual Property Organisation on traditional knowledge and community intellectual property rights.She got a Masters and PhD in International Education from Stockholm University, Sweden. In South Africa, Professor Hoppers was awarded Professor Extraordinarius in 2019 at University of South Africa (Pretoria). She held a South African Research Chair in Development Education at the University of South Africa (2008-2018). Prior to that, she was a technical adviser on Indigenous Knowledge Systems to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology (South Africa) and led the Task Team to draft the national policy on Indigenous Knowledge Systems. She is a member of the Academy of Science of South Africa (ASSAf, 2002), and was a member of the Academy of Science Special Panel on the Future of Humanities (South Africa).She was the Goodwill Ambassador for Makerere University in Kampala Uganda; and Ambassador for Non-Violence at the Durban Universities’ International Centre for Non-Violence. In July 2015, she received the Nelson Mandela Distinguished Africanist Award from HE Thabo Mbeki for her pursuit of the total liberation for the African continent through the promotion of Indigenous Knowledge Systems of Education and in the same year, Prof Hoppers was awarded “Woman of the Year” by the University of South Africa, and was named as a “Leading Educationist” and was honoured in the Gallery of Leadership as the 63 most influential people who have shaped Unisa since its inception in 1873, in a permanent exhibition in Kgorong Building in UNISA. In 2017, Professor Hoppers received the distinction from UNESCO as an Honorary Fellow in Lifelong learning. She is the Founder and Director, Global Institute for Applied Governance in Science, Knowledge Systems and Innovations (https://www.giagsi-ug.org/the-faculty/). She held a Professorship in Education at Gulu University (Uganda) and is now the Canada Research Chair in Transdisciplinarity, Cognitive Justice and Education as part of the Pluralism Strategy Initiative at the University of Calgary (https://www.ucalgary.ca/pluralism/scholars-educators-researchers).She is the author of many important works including the book, Rethinking Thinking: Modernity's "other" and the Transformation of the University with the late Prof. Howard Richards.https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=qWEKG-QAAAAJ&hl=en

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• Every Young Person Should Learn Complexity Sciences - A Conversation with Dr Roland Kupers

  Reductionism - the breaking down of complex phenomena into as many parts as possible to make them fully understandable - is everywhere. To some extent the whole enterprise of modern formal schooling is based on the promise of reductionism, as we break life down into subjects, concepts, facts, etc to be digestible by our young people. It has also enabled unbelievable scientific and technological progress. So who could possibly argue with this? And yet, reductionism has become like the hammer that sees everything as a nail. One of its problems is that is renders everything into a mechanistic functioning of parts and nothing more. Our inability to perceive, understand and value complex and systemic patterns and relationships is maybe something that we need to engage with in our education systems. Dr. Roland Kupers is an advisor on Complexity, Resilience and Energy Transition, Professor of Practice at Arizona State University, as well as an Associate Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies at the University of Amsterdam. He is a global advisor on mitigating methane emissions from fossil fuels for UNEP’s International Methane Emissions Observatory.A theoretical physicist by training, Roland spent a decade each at AT&T and at Shell in various senior executive functions, including Group head for Sustainable Development and Vice President Global LNG. He has a long running interest in complexity theory and its impacts.He has published widely, including in HBR, on Project Syndicate, A Climate Policy Revolution: What the Science of Complexity Reveals about Saving the Planet (Harvard UP 2020) and co-authored Complexity and the Art of Public Policy: Solving Society’s Problems from the Bottom Up (Princeton 2014), The Essence of scenarios (Amsterdam 2014), and Turbulence: A corporate framing of resilience (Amsterdam 2014).In 2010 Roland was a co-author of a report commissioned by the German Government on a New Growth Path for Europe, applying a complexity lens to climate economics. He has been an advisor to the Environmental Defense Fund, the World Resources Institute and the Rockefeller Foundation.Roland is a Dutch national; his travels have made him fluent in five languages.Useful Links:https://www.rolandkupers.com/Complexity Module for the IB Diploma: https://www.rolandkupers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/An-IB-complexity-module-for-the-Diploma-Programme-24.10.17.pdfUNEP’s International Methane Emissions Observatory, 2022 Report: https://www.rolandkupers.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/IMEO2022.pdf

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• Young People are Reclaiming their Education and Making New Worlds Possible - A Conversation with Zineb Mouhyi

  Everyone involved in education from young people to tecahers to leaders to policy-makers are being asked some really tough questions in these current times. Do the systems and institutions that we are working and learning in still serve us? Did they ever? And what are we being called on to do differently? This week, it was such an amazing pleasure to chat with Zineb Mouhyi who is the co-founder of YouthXYouth, a global organisation that she set up with Valentina Raman, to convene action around transforming education systems but in a way that didn't excluding the core of these systems, the primary constituents that they were seeking to engage and serve: young people. YouthXYouth invited young people around the world to see the COVID-19 pandemic crisis as an opportunity to radically reimagine learning for themselves and their communities. In January 2021, they hosted their first online Learning Festival, which gathered nearly 1000 young people and adult allies from over 80 countries around a central question: What if young people designed the future of education?YouthXYouth has engaged over 2000 youth activists from 80 countries across 6 continents, buliding their capacity and confidence to reclaim their learning and create life-affirming futures within their communities. They are led by and serve youth who are between the ages of 15 to 26—75% of whom live in the Global South, and about 50% live in Africa.Zineb is also one of the co-founders of the Weaving Lab (https://weavinglab.org/), an international NGO and a community of weavers learning together how to interconnect people, projects and places to form thriving systems. Prior to that, she was the Policy & Partnership Development Officer at WISE (World Innovation Summit for Education), at the Qatar Foundation in Doha, where she mainly worked on education development policy research and on bringing different education stakeholders together to bring forth collaborations in education.Useful Links YxY Weavership Messaging Toolkit an opportunity for young people or youth organisations who might consider hosting a Weaver-in-Residence.YxY website: https://www.youthxyouth.com/Weavership Application: https://airtable.com/appYm9UwzGZxELiYA/shrHR2MmpZfVclJP5Authors mentioned during the conversation:Guy Debord - The Society of the Spectacle Loretta Ross - Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather CancelLinkedIn: @zinebmouhyi - https://www.linkedin.com/in/zinebmouhyi/Instagram: @yxyactivists - https://www.instagram.com/yxyactivists/

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• Organisations as Human Learning Systems - A Conversation with Thea Snow and Toby Lowe

  In episode 181 with Robert Barnett, Rob and I were discussing the real constraints and difficult conditions teachers find themselves in as they try to prioritise the meaningful learning and growth of their young people. This week, we are taking a broader look at the kinds of institutional structures that might actually help rather than hinder these more generative ways of living and learning - the kinds of institutions suited to the transformative adaptations and systems change that we desperately need. So in this episode I'm really happy to be speaking with Thea Snow and Toby Lowe about taking a Human Learning Systems approach to management and governance of organisations. Thea and Toby in their work at Centre for Public Impact focus primarily on public sector management. However, these principles certainly apply more broadly to institutions in the private and third sectors. This is very exciting work as it feels much more authentically connected to the beautiful and complex realities that we know we live, learn and work in and that we want to prepare our young people to embrace. But we also know that the way we are held accountable for outcomes in our work often feels simplistic and naive and entirely dissociated from these complex realities. Thea is the Regional Director for Australia and Aotearoa New Zealand at Centre for Public Impact. Thea’s experiences span the public, private and not-for-profit sectors. She has worked as a commercial lawyer, a public servant, and, prior to joining CPI, at the UK’s innovation foundation, NestaToby Lowe is Professor of Public Management at Manchester Metropolitan University and action researcher at Centre for Public Impact. He has also done policy work addressing poverty in neighbourhoods for the Social Exclusion Unit, worked as a public management action researcher developing the Human Learning Systems approach and held the position as Chief Executive of a participatory arts charity in North East England.You can find links in the show notes to a lot of the documents and sources we talk about in the conversation, especially if you'd like to find out more about implementing a Human Learning Systems approach in your organisation. Some of Thea’s work includes:“The (il)logic of legibility – Why governments should stop simplifying complex systems”https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2021/02/12/the-illogic-of-legibility-why-governments-should-stop-simplifying-complex-systems/“Once upon a bureaucrat: exploring the role of stories in government“https://thepolicymaker.jmi.org.au/once-upon-a-bureaucrat-exploring-the-role-of-stories-in-government/“Why evidence should be the servant, not the master, of good policy”https://apolitical.co/solution-articles/en/Why-evidence-should-be-the-servant-not-the-master-of-good-policy“Public servants are tired of change-washing — not change”https://apolitical.co/solution-articles/en/public-servants-are-tired-of-change-washing-not-changeSome of Toby’s work includes:Human Learning Systems: Public Service for the Real World: https://centreforpublicimpact.org/resource-hub/human-learning-systems-public-service-for-the-real-world/Harnessing Complexity for Better Outcomes in Public and Non-profit Services: https://policy.bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/harnessing-complexity-for-better-outcomes-in-public-and-non-profit-servicesHuman Learning Systems: A practical guide for the curious: https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/assets/pdfs/hls-practical-guide.pdfVarious links from our discussion:https://www.humanlearning.systems/hls-insights-findings-from-our-research-2024/https://centreforpublicimpact.org/resource-hub/storytelling-for-systems-change/https://medium.com/centre-for-public-impact/embracing-ensembles-8e049c40b87fhttps://www.woodleigh.vic.edu.au/events-public-calendar/reimagined-conference

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• Why Every Teacher Should Know About Ecological Psychology! A Conversation with Miguel Segundo-Ortin and Vicente Raja

  As educators, a great deal of our understandings of what learning is has been dominated by behaviourist (check out previous episode with Carol Sanford) and cognitivist ideas, but what if our decisions about how we design learning environments, and think about pedagogy and curriculum had taken in ecological insights of Eleanor Gibson and James Gibson and the branch of psychology known as ecological psychology. So few educators know that such a sub-discipline even exists!Rather than individual students's brains neatly arranged in rows in intentionally informationally impoverished learning environments to compute information and construct meaning in a meaningless world out there, we might have young people as object-environment systems moving around and exploring informationally rich environments to fine-tune their action-perception through multi-sensory relating to the ecologies that they participate in! Sounds like a pretty different world!This episode welcomes Miguel Segundo-Ortín and Vicente Raja, post-doctoral researchers at the MINT Lab, and research fellows at University of Murcia, Spain. Together, they are the authors of the book Ecological Psychology (Cambridge Elements, 2024) -https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/ecological-psychology/9E79001702D4D8029E19D11CD330149FMiguel Segundo-Ortin is a postdoctoral fellow in the Department of Philosophy and member of the Minimal Intelligence Laboratory at the University of Murcia (Spain). His research is in the philosophy of the cognitive sciences, particularly embodied cognition, comparative cognition, and human agency.https://miguelsegundoortinphd.com/Vicente Raja a post-doctoral researcher at the MINT Lab, a research fellow at University of Murcia (Spain) and external affiliate faculty of the Rotman Institute of Philosophy at Western University (Canada). His research lies at the intersection of philosophy, cognitive science, neuroscience, and the history of the sciences of the mind, and has appeared in venues including Synthese, Minds and Machines, Physics of Life Reviews, Behavioral and Brain Sciences, Scientific Reports, Frontiers in Neuroscience, Philosophical Psychology, Adaptive Behavior, Cognitive Systems Research, and Theory and Psychology, among others. He has also edited/is editing a book for Routledge and special issues for the Journal of Consciousness Studies and Topics in Cognitive Science. https://www.um.es/mintlab/index.php/about/people/vicente-raja/This is a talk given by Vicente In Memoriam: Eleanor Gibson - https://youtu.be/QmV4Iz1jJs8?si=HAScaBYB2RcNKjTaJames J. Gibson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Gibson

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