Psychologists Off the Clock

Are we being lied to about the science of attraction?
In this episode, UC Davis relationship scientist and author of Bonded by Love: The New Science of Human Attachment, Paul Eastwick, challenges the massive online narratives around "mate value," hardwired gender differences, and dating strategies. It turns out a lot of the viral relationship theories we see online are built on shaky evidence, relying on photos and surveys rather than real, live human interaction.
Paul explains why what we say we want on paper almost never predicts who we actually fall for in person. He redefines compatibility not as a rigid trait-matching algorithm, but as something unique that two people construct together over time.
If you're ready to look past the internet's rigid dating rules and see how attraction actually works in the wild, tune in.
[And if you are interested in pre-ordering Yael’s book, Why Don’t You Understand Me?, this link will take you to the larger booksellers, while THIS link will take you to her pre-order bonus form. Thank you for supporting Yael’s book launch! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeq8tfQnl1o5GvfxrIrDzeOFtIvB8E16czMKajY3B8IDy1oww/viewform]

Listen and Learn:
The "Evo script" and the popular, outdated evolutionary psychology myths that dominate modern dating advice and why the latest science challenges its assumptions about mate value, gender differences, and relationship strategies
Why popular evolutionary psychology models fail to predict real-world relationship success, and learn how relationship science reveals a far less competitive and much more hopeful reality of how we actually choose and stay with our partners
Why the way we evaluate romantic partners on paper or dating apps is completely different from how we judge them in person
The surprising scientific truth that our abstract checklists for a romantic partner rarely predict real compatibility, discovering instead how long-term satisfaction is built through shared experiences rather than finding someone who matches a mental template
How actual data debunks extreme evolutionary psychology scripts about gender differences, revealing that men and women are much more aligned in their romantic and sexual desires than popular media and online advice suggest
Why the concept of "mate value" and physical attractiveness only matter for short-term dating and initial impressions, while true long-term relationship success depends on compatibility that partners uniquely construct together rather than a predictable algorithm
How relationship satisfaction and compatibility are not predetermined by matching personality traits, but are instead actively constructed through vulnerability, open-minded interactions, and the unpredictable connections built within real-world social networks
Why platonic friendships between heterosexual men and women are not only entirely possible but also deeply enriching, mind-expanding, and a proven positive predictor for finding a romantic partner in the long run
The major drawbacks of online dating, learn why you should wait until the third date before making a decision, and find out how a "failed" date can actually help you find your next match

Resources:
Bonded by Love: The New Science of Human Attachment https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593593981
https://www.lovefactuallypod.com/
http://pauleastwick.com/pauleastwick
https://linktr.ee/pauleastwick

About Paul Eastwick
Paul Eastwick is a professor of psychology at UC Davis, where he runs the Attraction and Relationships Research Laboratory. His work sits at the intersection of evolutionary psychology, social psychology, and close relationships research, meaning he has spent his career asking why people fall for who they fall for, and whether the stories we tell ourselves about that process hold up to scientific scrutiny.
His new book, Bonded by Love: The New Science of Human Attachment, makes a sweeping argument: the dominant narrative about human mating — attraction as hierarchy, competition, genetic optimization — isn't just incomplete. It's wrong in ways that matter. The real science of how humans form lasting bonds is, if anything, more interesting and more hopeful than what we've been sold.
His research has been funded by the National Science Foundation, he sits on the editorial boards of several major psychology journals, and he has the rare combination of scientific rigor and personal candor. Paul is also the co-host of Love Factually, a podcast he runs with Northwestern relationship researcher Eli Finkel, which fact-checks Hollywood rom-coms one movie at a time (and which happens to be one of Yael’s favorite binge-listens).

Related Episodes:
63. The Ape That Understood the Universe with Steve Stewart-Williams
92. Marriage in Midlife with Daphne de Marneffe
179. How to Be an Adult in Relationships with Dave Richo
248. Let’s Talk about Sex & Intimacy with Zoë Kors
397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova

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For some people, stories are entertainment; for others, they can be a lifeline.
Janina Scarlet, licensed clinical psychologist, author, and founder of Divine Feminine Publishing, returns to discuss her work promoting books with strong female and gender-diverse representation. She shares how surviving illness after Chernobyl, along with physical and sexual abuse, led her to find comfort in stories and eventually become a writer.
The conversation covers the challenges of writing about personal experiences, the importance of reading widely, separating drafting from editing, and protecting creativity. Janine also talks about researching and writing her Holocaust novel, Through Bullets and Thunderstorms, based on her grandmother’s survival in Ukraine.

Listen and Learn:
How surviving childhood trauma, abuse, and the aftermath of Chernobyl shaped Janina’s drive to write, revealing how fictional characters can serve as vital support systems and how shared vulnerability allows us to step into each other's worlds to find hope and healing
How sharing our deepest, most vulnerable personal stories is an act of courage that fosters post-traumatic growth and acts as a powerful reminder to others that they are not alone
Kickstarting your writing journey by reading your target market and separating the creative writing process from the analytical editing phase
Why giving up prematurely is a beginner's biggest mistake and how learning to "embrace the mess" of an imperfect first draft is the true secret to finishing your book
How to break out of the research "bottomless pit" when writing about unfamiliar topics by leveraging interviews with experts and people with lived experience to craft authentic, deeply nuanced fiction
The raw and deeply personal story behind Janina’s book, Through Bullets and Thunderstorms: Our Holocaust Survival Pact

Resources:
Through Bullets and Thunderstorms: A Holocaust Survival Pact https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9798992940404
https://www.superhero-therapy.com/
https://divinefeminine-publishing.com/
https://writingtheother.com/
Michael’s Confidence Course https://herold.coach/course
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780808510574
The Artist's Way https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780143129257

About Dr. Janina Scarlet
Dr. Janina Scarlet (she/her) is a licensed clinical psychologist, author, a neurodivergent, queer person with a disability, and founder of the Divine Feminine indie book publishing company. She has authored eighteen books and written chapters for twenty others.
Dr. Scarlet is the recipient of the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award from the United Nations Association. She regularly consults on books and television shows, including HBO’s Young Justice. She was also interviewed for Marvel’s MPower series and was portrayed as a comic book character in Gail Simone’s Seven Days graphic novel.
Dr. Scarlet’s goal is to promote books featuring at least 50% female and/or gender-diverse characters because when women and gender-diverse people have greater representation in fiction, it empowers them to have a stronger voice in real life.

Related Episodes
325. Unseen, Unheard, Undervalued with Janina Scarlet
275. Work parent thrive with Yael
345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock

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We’ve all been there: you’re scrolling through your feed, watching someone bake sourdough from scratch in a pristine linen dress, and suddenly your own life feels incredibly messy and chaotic.
In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, Debbie and Emily are pulling back the curtain on the hyper-curated worlds of social media influencers, reality TV, and the massive "tradwife" trend.
Grab your headphones and get ready for a much-needed reality check on why we need to be way more skeptical of what we see on our screens.

Listen and Learn:
What happened when Debbie fell down a Ballerina Farm rabbit hole
How glamorous images of the past conveniently leave out the harsh realities of history, like poverty, oppression, and environmental harm
How reality shows feed us false ideals, driving us into a spiral of social comparison and reinforcing toxic, patriarchal beauty standards
Why chasing these unrealistic lifestyles actually hurts our well-being
The rise of fear-based pseudoscience, MLMs, and totally unqualified "mental health influencers" who are just looking for clicks

Resources:
Debbie’s recent Substack post on Tradwife Influencers: https://open.substack.com/pub/drdebbiesorensen/p/trad-wife-influencers-reflections
The critique Debbie mentioned about how making cereal from scratch is a leisure class activity: https://www.tiktok.com/@professorneil/video/7339254814578150661
Maintenance Phase podcast: https://www.maintenancephase.com/
The Dream podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc28XHKS2jY

About Debbie Sorensen
Debbie (she/her) is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Denver, Colorado with a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Anthropology from the University of Colorado, Boulder, and a Ph.D. in Psychology from Harvard University. She is author of the book ACT for Burnout: Recharge, Reconnect, and Transform Burnout with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and co-author of ACT Daily Journal: Get Unstuck and Live Fully with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. She loves living in Colorado, her home state, with her husband, two daughters, and dog. When she’s not busy working or podcasting, she enjoys reading fiction, cooking, traveling, and getting outdoors in the beautiful Rocky Mountains! You can learn more about Debbie, read her blog, and find out about upcoming presentations and training events at her webpage, drdebbiesorensen.com.

About Emily Edlynn
Emily (she/her) is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in pediatric health psychology who works in private practice with children, teens, and adults. She has a BA in English from Smith College, a PhD in clinical psychology from Loyola University Chicago, and completed postgraduate training at Stanford and Children’s Hospital Orange County. Emily spent almost ten years working in children’s hospitals before pivoting to private practice, which allowed her to start a writing career. Emily has written her blog, The Art and Science of Mom, since 2017 and a parenting advice column for Parents.com since 2019. Emily’s writing has also appeared in the Washington Post, Scary Mommy, Good Housekeeping, Motherly, and more. She recently added author to her bio with her book, Autonomy-Supportive Parenting: Reduce Parental Burnout and Raise Competent Confident Children and has a Substack newsletter. Emily lives with her husband, three children, and two rescue dogs in Oak Park, IL where she can see Chicago’s skyline from her attic window.

Related Episodes:
295. Buyer Beware: Pseudoscience and the Wellness Industry, featuring Pooja Lakshmin
390. Raising Empowered Girls in a Sexist World with Jo-Ann Finkelstein
311. Nobody’s Fool with Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris – Psychologists Off the Clock
307. Navigating Social Media As a Parent with Cara Goodwin
433. Rethinking Screens and Video Games with Ash Brandin
382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
429. May Contain Lies with Alex Edmans

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We’ve been told forever that women are the only natural caregivers, but neuroscience shows that’s just not true; men actually go through huge biological shifts when they become dads, too.
Sitting down with Emily for this episode is clinical psychologist Darby Saxbe, who chats to us about her book Dad Brain: The New Science of Fatherhood and How It Shapes Men’s Lives, which challenges neo-traditional assumptions about parenting roles.
Their conversation highlights the biological reality of fatherhood, exploring how men experience hormonal shifts, brain changes, and even paternal postpartum depression.
Darby also uncovers how hands-on parenting trends are shifting across generations, the connection between relationship conflict and a dad's mental health, and how policy changes like paid paternity leave can transform modern family dynamics.

Listen and Learn:
How the modern science of fatherhood rewrites traditional gender roles, why the "Dad Brain" is biologically wired for caregiving, and how millennial and Gen Z fathers are redefining the rewards and divides of modern parenting
The concept of "facultative adaptation" and how it shapes the natural variability of fatherhood
How a father's brain and body prepare for parenthood during pregnancy
How a couple’s relationship conflict during pregnancy can directly impact the labor and delivery experience
Why the prenatal period is a critical window for couples to proactively strengthen their communication, navigate relationship shifts, and better manage the stress and emotional toll of childbirth and early parenthood
The ways postpartum depression manifests in new dads
How a father's hormone levels naturally drop after birth and why high testosterone can unexpectedly strain romantic relationships and parenting
The unique benefits of the father-child relationship
Why we need to view men's mental health through a family lens
How progressive policy shifts are working to empower and destigmatize active fatherhood

Resources:
Dad Brain: The New Science of Fatherhood and How It Shapes Men’s Lives https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250387523
Darby’s Website: https://www.darbysaxbe.com
Darby’s Substack: https://darbysaxbe.substack.com
Connect with Darby on Social Media:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/darbysaxbe
https://www.instagram.com/darbysaxbephd/
Behind Every Dad Bod is a Healthy Dad Brain https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/06/opinion/dad-brain-health-fatherhood.html

About Darby Saxbe
Darby Saxbe, PhD, is a clinical psychologist and tenured full professor of psychology at the University of Southern California.
She has published over eighty scientific articles in peer-reviewed journals and secured major research grants from the National Institutes of Health and National Science Foundation. She earned awards from the American Psychological Association and the Society for Research in Child Development and was a Fulbright fellow. Dr. Saxbe received her PhD in clinical psychology from UCLA and her BA in English and psychology from Yale University.
Her research focuses on the transition to parenthood, particularly the neural and hormonal underpinnings of fatherhood. She integrates neuroscience and psychology to explore how close connections shape health and wellbeing.
When she is not doing research, she hangs out with her husband and two kids, plays guitar in an all-mom indie rock band, and writes the Substack newsletter, Natal Gazing. She was a mediocre contestant on the show Who Wants to Be A Millionaire and recently lost a chili cookoff.

Related Episodes:
446. Cognitive Household Labor with Allison Daminger
445. The Unexpected Magic of Caring with Elissa Strauss
361. Dudes and Dads: Men’s Mental Health with Danny Singley
206. Fair Play Part 2 with Eve Rodsky
176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky

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When a survivor speaks up, the world too often demands a 'perfect victim' before it offers belief, a painful reality that leaves many wondering if their truth will ever be enough.
In this episode with Deborah Tuerkheimer, author of Credible: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers, we hear about the “credibility complex,” including credibility discount and credibility inflation, rape myths, the “perfect victim” and “monster abuser” archetypes, and how victim-blaming and disbelief are reinforced by culture and legal rules.
You’ll also learn about underreporting, the “second assault,” trauma-informed investigation, expert testimony on trauma dynamics, and how loved ones can respond supportively when someone discloses abuse. Listen in to understand why credibility judgments are patterned and how believing, validating, and offering help can change what happens next.

Listen and Learn:
The credibility complex and how social power dynamics cause the credibility of marginalized individuals to be discounted while powerful individuals receive an inflated boost
Why society perpetuates rape myths and victim-blaming
How the "perfect victim" myth is weaponized against survivors in the legal system
How institutional disbelief and victim-blaming are systemic realities baked into the penal code
Why cultural tropes and a deep-seated "care gap" cause society to minimize astronomical statistics, overstate the prevalence of false reports, and prioritize the futures of perpetrators over the lives of victims
How the cultural myth of the "monster abuser" prevents fair credibility judgments by creating a false archetype of a deviant stranger
How the justice system creates an institutional imbalance by weaponizing an accuser's personal history while shielding a perpetrator’s past behavior
How physical attractiveness acts as a "Goldilocks" trap for victims' credibility
Why true progress relies on upending a systemic culture of impunity rather than relying solely on institutional training

Resources:
Credible: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063002760
Deborah’s Website: https://www.deborahtuerkheimer.com

About Deborah Tuerkheimer
Deborah Tuerkheimer is a professor at Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law. She earned her undergraduate degree from Harvard College and her law degree from Yale Law School. Tuerkheimer served for five years as an Assistant District Attorney in the New York County District Attorney's Office, where she specialized in domestic violence and child abuse prosecution. She teaches and writes in the areas of criminal law, evidence, and feminist legal theory. She is also the author of CREDIBLE: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers (Harper Wave/HarperCollins).

Related Episodes:
19. Keeping Children Safe from Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower
84. Courageous Conversations to Prevent Childhood Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower
163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez
394. Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant with Andrea Dunlop and Mike Weber
399. Likable Badass with Alison Fragale
421. Defy with Sunita Sah
436. Consent Laid Bare with Chanel Contos
448. The Power of Oversharing with Leslie John

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