Psychologists Off the Clock

In a world that’s more connected than ever yet feels increasingly lonely, award-winning journalist Jennifer B. Wallace explores why the simple human need to matter may be the most powerful force shaping our well-being.

Joining Yael to discuss her new book, Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose, Jennifer underscores the crucial role of mattering in fostering resilience and well-being, emphasizing its importance in both personal and professional contexts. You’ll gain practical ways to cultivate a sense of mattering, learn about the importance of attunement in relationships, and understand the significance of social contexts in mental health.

She also reflects on the impact of technology on our social connections and the valuable lessons learned from her research on creating ecosystems that support mattering.

Listen and Learn:
The discovery that shifted Jennifer’s entire research focus and why the real key to kids’ resilience may actually lie in how adults experience purpose, value, and “mattering” in their own lives
Why “mattering” goes beyond belonging or purpose and how feeling both valued and impactful may be the hidden factor that determines whether people truly engage or quietly burn out
How a simple moment of everyday rudeness can quietly undermine our sense of mattering, and why understanding that reaction can completely change how you interpret (and respond to) those interactions
How a lesson learned from Jennifer’s father about making people feel like they matter shaped their entire life
Why feeling like you “matter” isn’t something you can fix alone, and how small, often uncomfortable moments of connection, dependence, and even friction are actually where real healing and meaning are built
Why do some people never seem to feel that they matter, even when the evidence is right in front of them, and what actually helps (and doesn’t) when you’re trying to show someone they do?
How attunement can transform everyday interactions and make people feel deeply seen, valued, and connected

Resources:
Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose by Jennifer B. Wallace: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593850596
Never Enough: When Achievement Culture Becomes Toxic-and What We Can Do About It by Jennifer B. Wallace: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593191866
Jennifer’s Website: https://www.jenniferbwallace.com/
Connect with Jennifer on Social Media:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-b-wallace/
https://www.instagram.com/jenniferbrehenywallace
Yael’s newsletter on “phubbing” with Jaqueline Nesi: https://relationalriffs.substack.com/p/are-you-phubbing-your-partner
Empathy Diaries by Sherry Turkle: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780525560111
Power of Discord by Ed Tronick and Claudia Goldstein: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-power-of-discord-why-the-ups-and-downs-of-relationships-are-the-secret-to-building-intimacy-resilience-and-trust-claudia-m-gold-md/f91287b2b45f7311?ean=9780316488877&next=t

About Jennifer B Wallace
Jennifer Breheny Wallace is an award-winning journalist and author of the New York Times bestselling book Never Enough: When Achievement Culture Becomes Toxic—And What We Can Do About It, which was named an Amazon Best Book of the Year, and for which she joined us on POTC episode 324. She's also the founder of The Mattering Institute, whose mission is to create cultures of mattering in workplaces and communities, and co-founder of The Mattering Movement, a nonprofit dedicated to creating cultures of mattering in schools. Jennifer started her journalism career at CBS's 60 Minutes. She's contributed to The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post, and she's here today to talk about her forthcoming book Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose.

Related Episodes:
168. Everyday Conversations: How Conversational Style Impacts Relationships with Deborah Tannen
179. How to be an Adult in Relationships with Dave Richo
263. Relationships with Emotionally Immature People with Lindsay Gibson
324. Toxic Achievement Culture with Jennifer Wallace

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We all feel emotions every day, but how often do we stop to understand what they really are and how they work?
Joining Michael for this episode is Ethan Kross, a renowned authority on emotion regulation and author of Shift: Managing Your Emotions—So They Don’t Manage You, for a conversation about the science behind how our internal dialogue affects health, performance, and relationships.
Ethan explains what emotions are, how they function, and the importance of teaching emotional regulation skills from a young age.
He also covers various tools and strategies that can help you manage your emotions more effectively, shares examples from his books, and highlights significant studies.

Listen and Learn:
Why we have emotions and how they quietly shape our thoughts, bodies, and actions in ways most of us don’t fully notice
Why meaningful moments almost always come with emotional friction, and what that reveals about living a purposeful life
The 50-year study that shows how early emotion skills shape health, money, and relationships
What happens when logic is pushed too far, and emotions are removed, and how science suggests a more balanced approach that quietly shapes better outcomes in work, relationships, and life
Why managing emotions isn’t about suppressing them, but learning how you can use the right tools at the right time to keep them working for you instead of against you
Simple mental shifts that help you move through discomfort and emotional blocks faster

Resources:
Shift: Managing Your Emotions--So They Don't Manage You https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593444412
Ethan’s Website: https://www.ethankross.com/
Emotion & Self Control Laboratory: http://selfcontrol.psych.lsa.umich.edu/
Connect with Ethan on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/ethankross/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekross/

About Ethan Kross
Ethan Kross is one of the world’s leading experts on emotion regulation. An award-winning professor and bestselling author in the University of Michigan’s top- ranked Psychology Department and its Ross School of Business, he studies how the conversations people have with themselves impact their health, performance, decisions, and relationships.
Ethan was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. He attended the University of Pennsylvania, where he was elected to Phi Beta Kappa and graduated magna cum laude. After earning his PhD in Psychology from Columbia University, Ethan completed a post-doctoral fellowship in social-affective neuroscience to learn about the neural systems that support self-control. He moved to the University of Michigan in 2008, where he founded the Emotion & Self Control Laboratory.
Ethan’s research has been published in Science, The New England Journal of Medicine, and The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, among other peer-reviewed journals. He has participated in policy discussion at the White House and has been interviewed on CBS Evening News, Good Morning America, Anderson Cooper Full Circle, and NPR’s Morning Edition. His pioneering research has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker, Harvard Business Review, USA Today, The Economist, The Atlantic, Forbes, and Time.
Ethan is the two-time National Bestselling author of SHIFT: Managing Your Emotions—So They Don’t Manage You and CHATTER: The Voice in Our Head, Why it Matters and How to Harness It. His books are routinely featured in the worlds’ top media (e.g., New York Times, Wall Street Journal, BBC, The New Yorker), have garnered multiple accolades and been translated into over 40 languages.

Related Episodes:
309. The Language of Emotions with Karla McLaren
265. The Power of Emotions at Work with Karla McLaren
183. Permission to Feel: Emotional Intelligence with Marc Brackett

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What if grief isn’t something to “get over” but something that can lead us toward meaning, connection, and healing?
Jill interviews David Kessler, a leading expert on loss and healing. They discuss Kessler's background, his books, especially Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief, and his journey through personal grief, including the loss of his son.
David shares insights on the stages of grief, differentiates between practical and emotional grief, and stresses the importance of finding meaning and community in the healing process.
He also touches on the role of children at funerals and the concept of continuing bonds with deceased loved ones. Tune in for invaluable perspectives on enduring and transforming through profound loss.

Listen and Learn:
How David's life was transformed by severe personal trauma and loss into a path devoted to assisting others in overcoming grief
Why grief is a natural consequence of choosing love and connection rather than a defect or failure
David’s more expansive definition of grief
Challenging the idea that grief has a timeline and how healing isn’t about “ending” grief, but learning how to carry it differently
The non-linear and deeply personal journey of loss and what it takes to show up for yourself in the hardest moments
How facing grief head-on can transform pain into growth and reveal unexpected meaning in life’s hardest moments
Why some people seem to sail through grief while others struggle silently
How meaning often hides in the small, unexpected moments of life and loss

Resources:
Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781501192746
David’s Website: http://Grief.com
Grief Educator Certification with David Kessler: https://www.davidkesslertraining.com/certification
Tender Hearts Online Grief Group: https://www.davidkesslertraining.com/tender-hearts-fb21
Connect with David on Social Media:
https://www.youtube.com/@iamdavidkessler
http://instagram.com/iamdavidkessler
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-kessler/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Kessler

About David Kessler
David Kessler is one of the world’s foremost experts on loss and healing. His decades of experience with thousands of people on the edge of life and death has taught him the secrets to living a happy and fulfilled life, even after life’s tragedies. He is the author of seven books including his latest bestselling book, Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief, as well as a new Finding Meaning Companion Workbook. He co-authored two books with Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, Life Lessons and On Grief and Grieving. He co-wrote You Can Heal Your Heart with Louise Hay and also wrote Visions, Trips and Crowded Rooms: Who and What You See Before You Die. His first book, The Needs of The Dying received praise from Saint (Mother) Teresa.

His article in the Harvard Business Review, titled, The Discomfort You Are Feeling is Grief went viral and was named one of “The Most Influential and Innovative Articles from Harvard Business Review’s First Century. His talk with Brené Brown was the #1 podcast in the world. He also hosted his own Spotify Podcast called Healing with David Kessler.

He has a unique place in pop culture as one of his books being the premise for the season premiere of The Walking Dead and he was a question on Alex Trebek’s Jeopardy. His new online model of grief support, Tender Hearts, offers over twenty-five groups. Additionally, David leads one of the most respected Grief Educator Certification programs. He is the founder of Grief.com.

Related Episodes:
52. Palliative Care and Healing with Michael Kearney
116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune
117. Bearing Unbearable Loss: A conversation About Grief with Joanne Cacciatore
157. The Art of Dying Well with Katy Butler
351. You Only Die Once with Jodi Wellman
384. Understanding Grief and Loss with Meghan Riordan Jarvis
419. Break Up on Purpose with John Kim

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So many women grow up hearing that we should be able to have it all, yet very few of us are ever shown what that actually looks like in real life.
In this episode, Emily welcomes Corinne Lowe, an associate professor of Business Economics and Public Policy.
Corinne shares insights from her book, Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women’s Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours, which examines gender wage gaps, structural discrimination, and the pressures women face when balancing career, family, and personal life.
This conversation focuses on redefining success in a way that truly fits your values, being more intentional with your time, and finding fulfillment on your own terms. You’ll also come away with practical strategies for workplace negotiations, rethinking productivity, and creating a more sustainable balance between work and life.

Listen and Learn:
How structural barriers limit women’s career and wage growth, and encourage redefining success by focusing on personal fulfillment and leveling up within those realities
How women face systemic workplace barriers that collectively limit their opportunities and earnings, and why addressing these issues benefits everyone
Debunking myths about women’s performance, showing that traits like negotiation skill and competitiveness are not inferior, and that focusing on evidence-based skill-building is what truly drives success
Understanding and prioritizing your own “utility function” to help women focus on what matters to them, rather than constantly comparing themselves to others
How to rethink your career as a tool for turning time into meaningful fulfillment, balance life’s chapters intentionally, and confidently understand your market value to make work serve you
Reclaiming your time, setting boundaries, and making intentional choices to focus on what truly brings joy and meaning to your family and life, instead of being trapped by guilt, obligation, or unrealistic expectations
Reframing parenting and self-care as “human capital” investment, showing how the time and care you give to your children and to yourself is meaningful, economically valuable, and essential for long-term wellbeing

Resources:
Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women’s Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250369512
Corrine’s Website: https://www.corinnelow.com
Connect with Corrine on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/corinnelowphd/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/corinne-low
https://www.facebook.com/people/Corinne-Low
Read More About Corrine’s Work on Substack: https://corinnelow.substack.com/

About Corinne Low
Corinne Low is an Associate Professor of Business Economics and Public Policy at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania where she teaches an award-winning class (and was named one of Poets and Quants 40 MBA Professors under 40 in 2024). Her research on the economics of gender has been published in top journals such as the American Economic Review, Quarterly Journal of Economics, and Journal of Political Economy. Corinne and her work have been featured in major media outlets, such as The New York Times, CBS Mornings, Forbes, New York Magazine, and The Guardian. Corinne regularly speaks to and advises firms in addition to teaching in Wharton’s Executive Education programs. She is the author of Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women's Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours. She received her Ph.D. in Economics from Columbia University, her B.S. in Economics and Public Policy from Duke University and formerly worked for McKinsey and Company.

Related Episodes:
398. Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money with Elizabeth Husserl
357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson
275. Work, Parent, Thrive with Yael Schonbrun
245. Family Firm with Emily Oster
206. Fair Play Part 2 with Eve Rodsky
176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky
174. How to Work and Parent Mindfully with Lori Mihalich-Levin

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Creativity is not just for artists or makers, so how can we build creativity and move from having an idea to doing something with it?
Joining Jill for this conversation is Zorana Ivcevic Pringle, a senior research scientist and the author of The Creativity Choice. Zorana discusses her journey into the world of creativity, the broader definition of creative acts beyond the arts, and how our emotions play a crucial role in creative processes.
She emphasizes embracing discomfort, finding inspiration in frustration, and the necessity for community and collaboration in creative endeavors.
This episode is a must-listen if you're curious to explore your own creative potential and bust the myth that creativity is just for the naturally gifted artists.

Listen and Learn:
How a formative childhood experience with art and creative differences sparked Zorana’s lifelong passion for studying creativity
How creativity isn’t limited to the arts; it can appear in everyday life, work, and problem-solving, showing that everyone has the potential to be creative
Overcoming fear, uncertainty, and the ‘gap trap’ by embracing discomfort, practicing creative self-efficacy
Why creativity is less about sudden inspiration and more about exploring problems deeply, asking questions, experimenting, and allowing solutions to emerge
How both positive and negative emotions serve as valuable information that can inspire creativity
Why creative blocks are a normal part of the process, and why approaching them with self-compassion can help overcome them and restore creative flow
How creativity and community intersect, and how collaboration or social connections can support the creative process

Resources:
Zorana’s Website: https://www.zorana-ivcevic-pringle.com/
The Creativity Choice: The Science of Making Decisions to Turn Ideas Into Action: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781541704329
Zorana's Substack Newsletter: https://creativitydecision.substack.com/
Connect with Zorana on Social Media
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zorana-ivcevic-pringle/
BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/z-i-pringle.bsky.social
Twitter: https://x.com/ZoranaPsych
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ZoranaIvcevicPringle
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.z.i.pringle/

About Zorana Ivcevic Pringle
Zorana Ivcevic Pringle, Ph.D., is a Senior Research Scientist at the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence. Zorana studies the role of emotion in creativity and well-being, examines the role of the arts and art-related institutions in building creativity, and wants to know how we move from having an idea to doing something with it. She edited the Cambridge Handbook of Creativity and Emotions, publishes research in creativity studies, and speaks to diverse audiences about creativity and how to make it happen. Zorana received the Award for Excellence in Research from the Mensa Education and Research Foundation and the Berlyne Award for Outstanding Early Career Achievement in psychology of aesthetics, creativity, and the arts from the American Psychological Association.

Related Episodes:
247. Find Your Unicorn Space with Eve Rodsky
288. The Fun Habit with Mike Rucker
294. Yes And: Improv in Psychology with Kelly Leonard
345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock
376. The Art of Therapy with Michael Alcee
410. Creativity and Making Things with Kelly Corrigan and Claire Corrigan Lichty

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