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403. Conflict Resilience with Bob Bordone and Joel Salinas
What if your next disagreement could actually bring you closer to someone instead of driving you apart? In this episode, we’re diving into Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In with co-authors Bob Bordone, a conflict resolution expert from Harvard, and Joe Salinas, a behavioral neurologist and founder of Isaac Health. Together with Yael, they have a down-to-earth conversation about what it really takes to stay present in conflict and why that matters for your relationships and your brain. You’ll hear personal stories, surprising research, and powerful insights on why it’s so important to get comfortable with discomfort, listen with an open heart, and know when (and how) to engage in tough conversations. Listen and Learn: What happens when a conflict avoider and a conflict expert team up to explore how tension builds connection? Why do two people experience the same conflict so differently, and how does your brain shape that story? Is conflict really worse today, or have we just lost the resilience to stay in the heat and handle it? Why avoiding conflict rewires your brain to fear it and building resilience means facing the heat, slowly. How sharing real stories across deep divides can reshape how we see “the other” and actually spark true change. Can deeper listening to those we disagree with reshape our brains, our beliefs, and maybe even our world? Why listening grows from curiosity to open space for real connection Knowing when to engage or exit conflict starts with curiosity and protects both peace and power Resources: Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In: http://www.conflictresiliencebook.com Joel’s website: https://joelsalinasmd.com/ Bob’s website: https://www.bobbordone.com/about-me#:~:text=My%20Story,served%20as%20the%20Thaddeus%20R Yael’s newsletter interview with the authors of You’re Not as Crazy as I Thought (But You’re Still Wrong)—on the topic of moving from “me versus you” to “us versus the problem” Additional Books Referenced in the Episode Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250338143 The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780393354775 Rising Out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780525434955 The Klansman's Son: My Journey from White Nationalism to Antiracism: A Memoir: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781419764783 You're Not as Crazy as I Thought (But You're Still Wrong): https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781612344614 About Bob Bordone: Robert C. Bordone is a Senior Fellow at Harvard Law School, founder and former director of the Harvard Negotiation and Mediation Clinical Program, former Thaddeus R. Beal Clinical Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, and founder of The Cambridge Negotiation Institute. He is co-author of Designing Systems and Processes for Managing Disputes, and co-editor of The Handbook of Dispute Resolution. Bordone was ranked among 2025’s World’s Top 30 Negotiation Professionals by Global Gurus. About Joel Salinas: Joel Salinas, M.D. is a behavioral neurologist, scientist, and Clinical Associate Professor of Neurology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, founder and Chief Medical Officer at Isaac Health, and former Harvard Medical School faculty. He is the author of Mirror Touch: A Memoir of Synesthesia and the Secret Life of the Brain. Related Episodes: 51. The Psychology of Political Division with Yael and Debbie 392. Outraged with Kurt Gray 397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Còrdova 276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson 371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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402. Harm Reduction for Addiction with Kristin Dempsey
Breaking the cycle of addiction is both possible and challenging, but even just rethinking your relationship with it can be a powerful first step toward change. Offering an alternative to strict abstinence models is Kristin Dempsey, the author of The Harm Reduction Workbook for Addiction, who invites you to reconsider your approach to addiction, offering a tangible, compassionate, and science-backed method of recovery known as harm reduction. Through reflective listening, motivational interviewing, curiosity, and "change talk," Kristin talks to Michael about just a few of these helpful strategies for reassessing your relationship with addictive substances (and even other areas of your life) and navigating change in a way that feels both supportive and sustainable. Listen and Learn: How harm reduction and motivational interviewing reshape substance use treatment with compassion What changes when someone explores behavior on their own with a workbook versus in live conversation? How can Kristin’s workbook also reveal insights about everyday habits and hidden patterns? Why do we resist advice, even when we ask for it, and how can choice unlock real change? How “change talk” in motivational interviewing helps people move from intention to action Using reflective listening to improve your conversations and build stronger, more meaningful connections Can curiosity, not problem-solving, unlock deeper conversations and personal growth? Why you should support someone struggling with substance use by building a relationship first, not by jumping to advice Resources: The Harm Reduction Workbook for Addiction: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781648481901 Kristen’s social media links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-dempsey-ed-d-lpcc-lmft-322812a Bluesky: ‪@kristind-lmft-lpcc.bsky.social‬ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057356474362. For more on Kristen’s webinars and podcasts, in addition to information about her practice, see here: https://www.kristindempseycounseling.com/ Order The Harm Reduction Workbook and find free worksheets: https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648481901/the-harm-reduction-workbook-for-addiction/ Yael’s newsletter on listening About Kristin Dempsey Kristin L. Dempsey, EdD, LMFT, LPCC, is a psychotherapist, counselor educator, and trainer. For thirty years, she has supported individuals with exploring their own relationships to substances. She is a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT) and has been privileged to provide motivational interviewing (MI) training to thousands of people in behavioral health, primary care, public health, school, corrections, and human services organizations. Related Episodes 66. Helping People Change Using Motivational Interviewing With Nadine Mastroleo 286. Not Drinking Tonight with Amanda White 101. The Complete Family Guide to Addiction with Thomas Harrison and Hillary Connery 202. The Addiction Inoculation with Jess Lahey 135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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401. The Doors You Can Open Through Sponsorship with Rosalind Chow
Success isn’t just about how hard you work. It’s also about who’s advocating for you even when you’re not in the room. In this episode, Debbie talks with Rosalind Chow, an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon University, about her new book, The Doors You Can Open A New Way to Network, Build Trust, and Use Your Influence to Create a More Inclusive Workplace. They get into the real difference between mentorship and sponsorship, why both matter, and how having the right sponsor can completely change the game for your career. Rosalind shares her perspective on the challenges of systemic racism and inclusion and how being intentional about sponsorship can actually create real opportunities for people who need them. Concluding the interview, Debbie and Yael give their take on what it means to build relationships that open doors, not just for ourselves but for others, too. Listen and Learn: When systemic solutions fade, what can individuals do? How sponsorship, not mentorship, breaks barriers for marginalized professionals How power dynamics in mentorship can shape careers and why sponsorship may be the real key to success Rethinking networking and how shifting from power moves to collective problem-solving can build real influence Sponsorship vs. mentorship: why trust flows differently, and why sponsors take the biggest career risks Can sponsorship fight bias, or does it reinforce it? How Kristin became the unlikely leader of a program for Black professionals and won over skeptics How sponsoring a colleague led Kristin to a Harvard Business Review article and a career boost Resources: Rosalind’s website: https://www.rosalindchow.com/ The Doors You Can Open: A New Way to Network, Build Trust, and Use Your Influence to Create a More Inclusive Workplace: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781541702752 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosalind-chow-6b25541b0/ About Rosalind Chow Rosalind Chow is an Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior and Theory at Carnegie Mellon University, where she studies the power of social hierarchy and its impact on diversity and inclusion efforts within organizations. She uses her research expertise to direct executive leadership programs aimed at accelerating participants' careers, with a particular focus on the advancement of women and members of marginalized groups. Her forthcoming book, The Doors You Can Open (PublicAffairs, April 8, 2025), introduces the concept of sponsorship as a way we can use our social connections to change the relationships we have with other people and the relationships that other people have with one another in the service of creating greater communal good. Related Episodes: 299. Leadership and the Changing Workplace with Chris Shipley 290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston 185. Good Guys: Allies in the Workplace with Brad Johnson and David Smith 389. Generational Differences in the Workplace with Michelle Quist Ryder 357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson 347. Job Changes & Career Pivots with Paula Brand 276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson 265. The Power of Emotions at Work with Karla McLaren 107. Playing Big with Tara Mohr Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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400. Behind the Scenes with Us
Off-the-clockers, it's time to celebrate because Psychologists Off The Clock just hit 400 episodes! 🎉 For this special milestone episode, the cohosts wanted to pull back the curtain on the podcast: why we do it, how it’s changed our lives, behind-the-scenes blunders, keeping the podcast financially afloat, and the incredible friendships we’ve built along the way. You all sent in questions for the team, and we’re answering them! Wondering how we choose guests or which co-host gets to interview which guest? We’re revealing it all. And as an extra treat, our podcast production manager, Jai, will be joining us to chat about editing, hilarious bloopers, memorable lessons and episodes, and give you a peek at what really happens in post-production. And to close out the episode, we’re giving a huge shoutout to some of our amazing Patreon supporters who are helping us deliver the podcast ad-free and making it possible for us to continue bringing you great science-backed psychology content! So please grab your favorite drink, hit play, and come celebrate with us! Resources: Cohost Books: ACT Daily Journal by Debbie Sorensen: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781684037377 Autonomy-Supportive Parenting by Emily Edlynn: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781641709767 In Your Feels by Emily Edlynn: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781950785933 Imposter No More by Jill Stoddard: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781538724798 ACT for Burnout by Debbie Sorensen: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781839975370 Join our Patreon and enjoy our episode ad-free: https://www.patreon.com/offtheclockpsych POTC episodes referenced in this episode: 368. Get Better at Anything with Scott Young 315. Hot & Bothered: Menopause with Jancee Dunn 176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky 382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health 393. Supercommunicators with Charles Duhigg 348. Sustainable Exercise with Michelle Segar 396. Public Speaking and TED Talks with Alina Nikolaou Join our community on social media: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/offtheclockpsych/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/offtheclockpsych Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/offtheclockpsych/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychologistsOfftheClock Get in contact with our Podcast Production Manager, Jai: jswpodcastassistant.com Related Episodes: 1. Taking a Leap Into Something Meaningful 100. Celebrating 100 Episodes 300. Celebrating 300 Episodes with Us Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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399. Likable Badass with Alison Fragale
Balancing warmth with assertiveness can feel like an impossible juggling act—too soft, and you're overlooked; too strong, and you're “too much.” Alison Fragale's book, Likable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve, offers practical, research-backed strategies to help women excel at work and in life. In this episode, you'll get to understand the science of power and status, self-promotion without the cringe, and overcoming gender biases with authenticity and confidence. We also include real-world challenges, making this discussion both insightful and refreshingly relatable. Listen and Learn: How power controls resources, but status shapes influence and why respect is the key to real authority How women can play smart within unfair rules to spark real change The science behind being a likable badass Navigating the balance between assertiveness and warmth and finding your authentic style Overcoming biases in social and professional settings How to confidently share your wins without feeling boastful, while staying warm and relatable Resources: Alison’s Book: Likable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve Alison’s Website: alisonfragale.com Connect with Alison on: LinkedIn Instagram TikTok Alison’s Substack: The Upper Hand with Alison Fragale Alison’s Media Page: https://alisonfragale.com/media-research/ Alison’s Hidden Brain episode: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/how-to-win-people-over/ My WorkLife with Adam Grant episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-secret-to-success-isnt-power-its-status/id1346314086?i=1000668204498 About Alison Fragale Alison Fragale is the Mary Farley Ames Lee Distinguished Scholar of Organizational Behavior at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill Kenan-Flagler Business School. As a research psychologist, award-winning professor, international keynote speaker, and author, she is on a mission to help others — especially women — use behavioral science to work and live better. Her scholarship has been published in the most prestigious academic journals in her field and featured in prominent media outlets such as The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Financial Times, Boston Globe, and Inc. Alison is the author of the national bestseller, LIKEABLE BADASS: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. She lives in Chicago with her husband and three children, who are all named after professional athletes. Related Episodes 49. Empowering Women with Robyn Walser 107. Playing Big with Tara Mohr 121. Be Mighty: An Episode for Stressed Out, Worried Women with Jill Stoddard 163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez 176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky 185. Good Guys: Allies in the Workplace with Brad Johnson and David Smith 290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston 321. Imposter No More with Jill Stoddard Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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