THE RUNNING EFFECT PODCAST

Rocky Hansen spent the offseason quietly begging Habtom Samuel not to turn pro.He lost to Samuel twice—the NCAA cross country final in November and the outdoor 5,000 in June—and his reaction to Samuel leaving wasn't a relief. It was a feeling of disappointment at losing the rematch. That instinct sits at the center of this conversation, recorded a few weeks into Rocky's final collegiate season.They get into the race he's proudest of, which he also lost. Samuel got him by a second and a half, and he calls it the best tactical race of his NCAA career.There's a lot here about the margins: the heat stroke at ACCs that finally sent him to a nutritionist; sleep and naps around 6:30 a.m. practices; the slowest summer buildup he's ever done; and six weeks in Europe not being Rocky the Runner. He also makes the case that the happy runner is the fast runner, by way of an engineering professor who once assigned him homework to have fun on purpose.He's candid about last fall, when Wake Forest returned most of a seventh-place team, assumed the podium was theirs, and watched the fire go out. And he's thoughtful about what the NCAA has become: a pro league, in his words, and one he loves competing in while recognizing the high schoolers it has squeezed out.Plus: Terre Haute, mud, and why he won't put a number on November.Tap into the Rocky Hansen Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @rocky_hansen_

Jordan Hasay Hogan never officially retired.

She was the most hyped teenager in American distance running. She was a Foot Locker champion as a freshman, she acquired eight California state titles, was an Olympic Trials 1500m finalist at sixteen—and then went on to run a 2:20:57 marathon in Chicago. In this conversation, she opens up about the Nike Oregon Project years in a way almost nobody has.

She walks Dominic through the actual training: 115-mile weeks, 25-mile long runs with fifteen at six-minute pace on an altitude treadmill before ten more miles at marathon pace, and Alberto Salazar's habit of tacking on surprise reps until athletes cracked. The centerpiece is the session she still calls the hardest of her life—a morning tempo, then 400s at 58 seconds that were supposed to be four and became ten, with Galen Rupp jumping in to pace, and Jordan averaging 58.7.

Underneath all of it is faith. 

The priest who traveled with the group to majors, the wrist rosary she wore in every marathon, and the Catholic athletes' conference where she met Alberto by what she can only call fate. She explains the Kobe tribute kit at the 2020 Trials, the comment he left on her Instagram after she tore her hamstring, and how studying his mental game shaped the way she coaches today.

On a comeback she's candid: most likely done, maybe one percent, and it would take a miracle. The fulfillment now comes from Hogan Performance and from her son, Micah.

Tap into the Jordan Hasay Hogan Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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Instagram: @jordanhasay

Colin Sahlman finished 151st at NCAA cross country as a freshman. Four years later he left college with three national titles.Colin returns to the show for the first time since high school, now a Nike athlete training with Swoosh TC in Flagstaff. He walks through the part of the story most people skipped: the freshman year that humbled him, the sophomore cross country season where he didn't even make the travel squad, and the junior year where he missed the outdoor 1500 final and coach Mike Smith floated calling the season early. Colin said no, asked to run the 800 instead, and ran 1:44 for the first time.What changed his senior year wasn't the training getting harder—it got easier. He slowed his threshold work by roughly ten seconds a mile, stopped burning himself out, and went to every line believing he'd win. That belief carried him to 16th at NCAA cross country, a Millrose 800 win over a world-class field, the indoor 3000 and DMR titles at nationals, and the outdoor 800 crown in his final collegiate race.He calls it delusional confidence, and it's the spine of the whole conversation.They also get into why the NCAA humbles almost everyone and why your timeline isn't anyone else's; the Mike Smith phone call that could have gone very differently; what it means to reunite with Smith alongside Nico Young, Ethan Strand, Parker Wolfe and Drew Bosley; and why the 800 or 1500 question is still wide open heading into an Olympic year.Tap into the Colin Sahlman Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Personal Instagram: @colinsahlman Photography Instagram: @colins_cam

Jess McClain almost skipped her first Foot Locker Nationals for a high school dance.

Her coach talked her out of it, and she went on to become one of only 27 girls in the meet's history to make all four national finals—2006 through 2009, alongside classmate Emily Sisson.

Sixteen years later, she's the fastest American woman ever to run Boston.

Jess kicks off the Call Room: Golden Ticket Edition, presented by Fleet Feet, leading into the Brooks Cross Country National Championships. She and Dominic start with the heat, since she grew up in Phoenix waking at 4:15 a.m. five days a week and still trains there today. Her answer is effort-based work and a lot of grace, and it's the same approach she used at fifteen.

From there they walk Balboa Park year by year: 24th as a wide-eyed freshman; then 20th; then 10th; then 13th as a senior ranked fourth in the country. Jess fondly recalls the free backpack, the West Region blue, the hill everyone underestimates, and the friendships still going. She talks about Coach Messer's precision and Coach Van Sickle's fun, three state team titles at Xavier, and why the team races mattered more than the individual ones.

Then the meet's near-death last year, why she immediately thought Brooks should save it, and what the golden ticket system means for kids whose schedules don't line up.

Her advice for anyone chasing a spot this fall: be in the mile you're in, and make the process worth the goal.

Tap into the Jess McClain Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Fleet Feet x Brooks XC Championships

FleetFeet.com

Instagram: @jesstonn

You can't out-tough sleep.

That's Todd Anderson's whole argument, and he makes it as a guy who tried. A walk-on fullback at Michigan State who signed with the Rams of the NFL in 2012, Todd spent a decade in strength and conditioning before deciding the highest-leverage hour of an athlete's day is the one they spend unconsciously. 

He's now co-founder and CEO of Dream Performance & Recovery and is working toward a PhD in sleep psychology.

Dominic caught him marathon mid-buildup—Todd's training for Chicago, Dominic for Columbus—and the conversation goes deep on why runners are the worst offenders. Perceived exertion and pain tolerance are among the first things to degrade when you're underslept, so chronic short sleep doesn't just cap your ceiling, it makes every mile hurt more. Todd's comparison: it's like training every day in 100-degree heat.

They get into the seven-hour floor and where that number actually comes from, the 2024 lab studies where unrestricted sleepers settled at eight and a half hours, and how to tell whether you're carrying sleep debt. Todd breaks down the mechanics of nasal breathing—nitric oxide, CO2 tolerance, and why the strips may do more for you asleep than on the run—plus why 80% of people have a deviated septum and don't know it.

Also, why screen damage is dose-dependent; what you watch matters as much as the light; Todd's hypothesis that marathon records would fall faster in the afternoon; and how long he thinks Dominic would survive in a 230-degree sauna.

Tap into the Todd Anderson Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Personal & Coaching Site: ToddAnderson42.com 

Company Store: DreamRecovery.io 

Instagram: @toddanderson42