THE RUNNING EFFECT PODCAST

The woman who breaks four minutes in the mile has probably already been born.

That's the opening claim from Professor Andy Jones, the Exeter physiologist behind Nike's Breaking2 project, and he gives her ten to fifteen years. The problem right now, he explains, is a split field: some women have the aerobic engine and the critical speed but no anaerobic reserve, while others have the speed and no endurance. Faith Kipyegon came up short on the 800m side, and Jones believes a properly paced attempt would have landed her near 4:03—a time that would have left the stadium feeling cheated.

From there Dominic takes him back to the beginning. Jones was giving conference talks arguing that 2:02:57 badly underestimated what humans could do, Nike staff were in the audience, and a phone call to Beaverton followed. He describes choreographing the pacemaker rotations in Monza like ballet, with cats, in several languages. He makes the case that 2:00:25 was the more remarkable performance of the two attempts, and says Kelvin Kiptum would likely have been the first man under two hours in a real race. 

The second half turns personal. Jones talks about the VO2 kinetics work he's proudest of, the beetroot research that earned him a nickname, the heart condition that now caps his own easy runs, and why his new book Faster—out January 28 with a foreword from Kipchoge—argues there is no magic bullet, no best method, and nothing that beats consistency.

Tap into the Professor Andy Jones Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @andrewjones7370

After Josh Kerr's mile world record, Danny Mackey had 478 unread texts. He answered about 20 of them.

The founding head coach of the Brooks Beasts Track Club joins Dominic at the end of the best season of his career. Josh Kerr broke the mile world record in London, about an hour after Brandon Miller won the 800m. Mackey still says he hasn't really reflected on any of it. He explains why: after 217 NCAA coaching rejections, he's still the guy who worries he could lose his job.

Dominic opens with a challenge: pitch a top recruit without mentioning Josh Kerr. From there, Mackey traces the Kerr partnership from its start. He first spotted Kerr's long stride across a track in Albuquerque. Mackey also names the 2024 tempo run that first made him believe a world record was possible, and confirms the 1500m record is likely next.

The conversation also gets into how Mackey coaches from inside the work rather than above it. He describes cold plunges at 6 a.m. alongside his athletes, and what Michael Jordan, Serena Williams and Rickson Gracie could teach a team.

Dominic and Danny also cover what separates good athletes from great ones, why elite coaching talent is spread acrossevery level, Spencer Brown's influence on athlete media, and a three-year-old who wanted a popsicle in the middle of a world record night.

Mackey closes with the lesson underneath all of it: nobody gets there alone. The company along the way is everything.

Tap into the Danny Mackey Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @dannytmackey

Some coaches chase talent. Todd Witzleben builds it.

When Witzleben took over at Manhattan University in June 2025, one regional ranking had the Jaspers 41st out of 42 teams in the Northeast, with six men on the cross country roster. A year later, there are 16, and he's talking about a 7:25 time in the 4x800 relay. Dominic sits down with the former Buffalo associate head coach to talk through the rebuild: from leaving a MAC program when a promotion request got laughed off, to the alumni who still care about a 1973 NCAA indoor title and a 1974 American record in the 4x mile.

Witzleben explains his formula: "big boy volume," with lots of threshold work and hill strength, and workouts nobody brags about. He makes the case for recruiting 9:30 two-milers in a roster-limit era, pointing to Leon Atkins, who never broke two minutes in high school and placed 16th at NCAAs. 

There's plenty of personality here, too. He named one son Charlie after his La Salle coach and the other Miles for exactly the reason you'd guess. He went from finance major to Citibank telemarketer to calling recruits for a living. And ahead of this weekend's Manhattan Invitational, he gives a course walkthrough of Van Cortlandt Park, including why the railroad ties now race like a steeplechase.

For anyone who believes a program, or a runner, is never too far gone, this one's for you.

Tap into the Coach Todd Witzelben Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @coachwitzleben

Vinny Mauri got drug tested at a Planet Fitness.

Five months after his 2:05:54 marathon at Glass City made him the fastest marathon debutant in American history, the self-coached Ohioan returned to the show just days before his second marathon in Chicago.

Dominic starts hot. Vinny explains why he emailed USADA himself the day after Toledo, why he feels honored rather than offended by the doubters, and how his first official test finally happened at the treadmill he uses right in front of the lobby. Then the training gets absurd: a 4:11 net-uphill mile in the middle of a long run at Pittsburgh's North Park; Tuesdays that reach 45 miles; a 30-mile treadmill long run at just over five-minute pace;near 140 miles peak weeks . 

Vinny also explains why he chose ASICS, why he's still selling shoes at Second Sole, and why he won't put a number on Sunday. He calls Toledo his debut effort and Chicago his debut race, weighs Clayton Young's shot at the American record, and explains why two miles under nine minutes would make him back off. Mostly, he just wants to reach the start line smiling.

He closes with advice for every runner still waiting on a breakthrough: sometimes you take a step back, and sometimes that step sets up a leap. Then Dominic extracts a promise involving the Ohio state cross country meet.

Listen before Sunday's gun goes off, and find out why all of Ohio is about to rally behind its king.

Tap into the Vinny Mauri Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @vinny.mauri

Four hundred straight dual meet wins don't happen by accident. 

Sean McCafferty, entering his tenth year as head cross country coach at Christian Brothers Academy (CBA) in Lincroft, New Jersey, joins Dominic to unpack the culture behind one of the most storied programs in high school running. Sean ran at CBA before competing at Princeton, and he later took over the program from Tom Heath, who led it for 45 years. He talks openly about the years he spent trying to coach like someone else before realizing he was better as himself.

He walks through the national-record dual meet streak and the brotherhood that fills the space football would occupy at most schools. He also explains how a phone-free school fits with the super shoes and GPS watches today's freshmenarrive with. Sean talks about the 2021 season that sent him back to the drawing board, and also explains the "singles and walks" mindset he preaches from the first practice in June to the night before NXN.

The most moving part of the conversation honors Alex Kemp, the former CBA state champion and Williams standout whose name now goes on the Manhattan Invitational trophy. Sean reflects on leading his team through grief, the third-place NXN finish that his runners dedicated to Kemp, and receiving the Joe Newton Coach of the Year Award. 

The episode also covers a young Edward Cheserek dropping college runners on a Sunday run, and the Jumbo Elliott mantra Sean's father passed down: keep it simple.

Tap into the Sean McCafferty Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.
 
S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20