Conversations

Dan Rankine (aka 'Trials') was the only little Aboriginal boy living in his rural Welsh village when he woke up shaking from a nightmare. That's when he and his mother knew they needed to go home to Adelaide.
Dan is now one of Australia's most respected hip hop producers, writers and rappers.
Born in Adelaide, Dan spent his early years on the other side of the world - in the rolling, green hills of rural Wales - with his mum, who had fled there from Dan's violent father in the middle of the night.
Far from his Ngarrindjeri connections, and with no one around who looked like him, Dan felt isolated.
After an unexplained nightmare, he and his mum decided to move back to Adelaide, where things didn't suddenly become perfect.
But a car crash, which could have been tragic, became an incredible turning point in Dan's life, allowing him to buy his first set of turntables.
And at 16 years old, Dad set himself on the path to becoming 'Trials', performing, writing and producing with and for artists like the Funkoars, Hilltop Hoods, Archie Roach and A.B. Original.
Dan has recently stepped out on his own, to release his debut solo album Hendle - something of an origin story, full of honesty, pain and passion.
Hendle is out now. Dan is set to publish an accompanying memoir later this year.
Keep up to date with Dan's music, art and tour dates at on his Instagram page.
This episode of Conversations was produced by Meggie Morris. Executive Producer was Eliza Kirsch.
It explores First Nations excellence, substance abuse, family violence, domestic violence, cultural education, blended families, Briggs, Paul Kelly, Gurrumul, childhood trauma, art, expression, alcoholism, fatherhood, love, grief, estrangement, Australian hip-hop, Dune Rats, DZ Deathrays, TV and film soundtrack, systemic racism, justice system, violent crime, art as therapy, painting, memoir, writing, book, sobriety, poetry, Dan Sultan, triple J, Reclaim Australia, Aus Music Month, how to write songs, dark humour, growing up, becoming a man, journalling, self improvement, metaphysical, the Dreaming, belonging, prison, incarceration, beats, NWA, Wu Tang Clan.
To binge even more great episodes of the Conversations podcast with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.

Erna Walraven was one of the first female zookeepers to work at Sydney's Taronga Zoo in the 1980s. She ignored practical jokes from her male colleagues, like animal dung in her gumboots, and this led to career highlights like travelling the globe to select the zoo's next gorilla patriarch. (R)
Erna was born in The Netherlands, to parents who were involved in the Dutch resistance during World War II.
Erna's love of languages took her to Spain, where she lived for many years with her widowed sister and young nephew.
It was there she met a penniless Australian backpacker and fell in love, starting Erna on the path to the rest of her life.
Further information
Originally broadcast May 2025.
Hear Me Roar was published by Affirm Press in 2025.
This episode was produced by Alice Moldovan. The Executive Producer was Nicola Harrison.
This episode touches on feminism, sexism, animals, breeding gorillas, zoos, captive animals, Dutch resistance, marry an Australian, Spain, love of languages, history and Europe.
To binge even more great episodes of the Conversations podcast with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.

The Gamilaroi journalist on the tiny coalmining town that made her and still sustains her, how eating worms led to a job on breakfast TV, and why she's aiming to be a good ancestor in the deep future.
Brooke grew up in Muswellbrook, a coal mining town in NSW.
She was a smart, high-achieving kid, doing every extra-curricular activity she could fit in.
Despite this, she dropped out of high school and didn't finish her education.
After a couple of lost years, a kind boyfriend introduced Brooke to the idea of journalism, and suddenly, she was raring to go, earning jobs in the press gallery in Canberra for NITV, and on triple j, reading the news.
Brooke was at the height of her career, doing entertainment news on the Today show on Nine, when she made a decision that seemed to come out of left field.
In 2024 Brooke suddenly quit her high-profile job to take up an offer to study at Oxford University.
Oxford presented the opportunity to complete the unfinished business of her education after being robbed of her academic potential in high school. 
In continuing to study, Brooke is focused on a life to be a not only a good auntie and sister but also a good ancestor for future generations.
Further information
Brooke's book of essays, All of It: Notes on public life, private joy and everything in between was published by Joan, an imprint of Allen & Unwin.
This episode was produced by Alice Moldovan. The Executive Producer is Eliza Kirsch.
This episode touches on the Voice to Parliament referendum, Aboriginal, language, climate change, Indigenous knowledge systems, aunty, ancestors, single mum, DV, domestic violence, work experience, political reporter, Tony Abbott, the news cycle, Canberra, the press gallery, parliament house, UTS, family, nieces, nephews, deep time, deep future, raise the age, age of criminal responsibility, children in prison, children in detention, Socratic method, philosophical argument, economics and politics.
To binge even more great episodes of the Conversations podcast with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.

The much loved actor has been on Australian TV screens and theatres for nearly 50 years. (R)
Noni Hazlehurst comes from a long line of performers, her parents met while they were part of a touring Variety act in the UK, and her great grandfather was a famous child trapeze artist.
Keeping children company on Playschool was one of her best known roles, which she had for 24 years.
In Noni’s day, Playschool was recorded in one take, unless one of the presenters swore or was bitten by a rabbit.
Further information
Noni's memoir Dropping the Mask is published by HarperCollins.
This episode of Conversations was first broadcast in 2024.
It explores acting, theatre, television, marriage, divorce, publicity, children's television, Playschool, Better Homes and Gardens, performing, family, renovations, privacy, legacy. audience, Logie awards.

Political advisor Ed Coper on the cold-blooded machine that is feeding angry people angry content online to make them even angrier, and what we can do about it.
Ed Coper is a political advisor and communications consultant who has worked for the Australian Labor Party, and for progressive lobby groups.
Over the past few years, he has noticed what everyone else has - people on both sides of the divide becoming increasingly vocal and angry about their politics online.
While there's no shortage of things to get outraged about in today's world, no matter where you lie on the political spectrum, Ed argues our rage is being monetised cold-bloodedly by social media platforms.
This digital, online machine has planted us in what he calls the era of 'angertainment', where an entire outrage industry is harvesting our worst impulses with algorithms that deliberately trigger the caveman switch in our brains that keeps us alert for potential threats.
But there is an antidote.
Ed says we need to understand this machine in order to build guardrails that preserve democracy, heal divisions and protect future generations from the "angry clowns" who currently rule the attention economy.
Angertainment is published in Simon and Schuster.
This episode of Conversations explores politics, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, divisive society, social cohesion, left versus right, attention spans, war, Trump, Putin, Gaza, Israel, Ukraine, elections, World War 3, the future, chronically online, rage bait, internet trolls, keyboard warriors, content farming, bots, Russia, Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Get Up, populism, political ideology, transgender issues, attention economy, MAGA, the woke left, polarised society, family violence, violence against women, misogyny, entertainment industry, Hollywood, nihilism, conservatives, progressives.
To binge even more great episodes of the Conversations podcast with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.