Mamamia Out Loud

The very famous man at the centre of a years-long journalistic investigation and a months-long legal fight in the UK has been named. Holly Wainwright explains why his name was kept private until now.

The clean girl has packed up her slick-back bun and left the building. Her replacement has smudged eyeliner and teased hair, but it may have taken just as long to get ready. Keeshia Pettit, Stacey Hicks and Holly Wainwright unpack ‘mess-washing’ and why some brands are now telling influencers not to clean their kitchens before they film.

Plus, what makes a good man? Julia Baird and her son Sam asked dozens of men and the answers went everywhere from mateship to the manosphere.

And, Andy Lee went through the Jennifer Hudson spirit tunnel. Stacey has thoughts on what the publicists’ emails must have looked like.

Mia has made something new. It's called Grout. Not Mould.
𝗚𝗥𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗹𝗲𝗿 𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗻𝗼𝘄, 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗹𝗼𝗴𝘂𝗲 𝗧𝘂𝗲𝘀𝗱𝗮𝘆 𝟭𝟳 𝗡𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗺𝗯𝗲𝗿.

If you or someone you know is thinking about suicide, get help immediately. Call Lifeline at 13 11 14. If you have experienced sexual assault and are in need of support, please call 1800 RESPECT on 1800 737 732.
What To Listen To Next:
Listen to Grout: Introducing GROUT, The New Audio Memoir By Mia Freedman
Listen to our latest episode: “How Do I Do It All? I Don’t.”
Listen: What Russell Brand Did & The Great American Vibe Shift
Listen: The TV Show That Was Fun Until It Wasn’t & The New Bookshelf Rule
Listen: Everything Jessie Stephens Did Before Getting To Work
Listen: Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word ‘Apology’.
Listen: Kristen, Dax & Nobody Wants This
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Get access to Very Peri, Mamamia's exclusive perimenopause series, for just $59. 25 world-leading experts, over 20 on-demand sessions, available now. We’ve sorted through the noise so you don't have to. Go to veryperi.com.au today. You hot? Same.
Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
Mamamia Out Loud on Apple
What to read:
Little Britain star David Walliams accused of grooming young women for sex.
'Jennifer Lawrence had surgery to be a "hot mum" at drop-off. Mums I know are quietly doing the same.'
'Trends are exhausting. That's why at 44, I'm embracing my "messy era".'
Endings. It’s been quite the year.
THE END BITS:
Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.
Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Outlouders, enjoy this free taster of Jessie Stephens, Emily Vernem & Holly Wainwright on our subscriber-only episode. You can listen to the full conversation here: “How Do I Do It All? I Don’t.”
"How does Holly Wainwright write a book while doing... everything else?" An Outlouder asked. Holly’s answer starts with a list of things she doesn’t do.
Plus, Jessie on the running monologue of everything she’s not getting to and the small habit that keeps her reading.
Also, has productivity culture made us all feel like we’re failing? Em confesses what the 5am influencers have done to her mornings.
Holly has a new book coming out! You can pre order her book here.
Subscribe here for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription for Black Friday with code BLACK30. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends November 30.
Women 30+, we want to hear from you! Take our quick 3-minute survey for your chance to win a $1,000 gift card.
What To Listen To Next:
Listen to our latest episode: What Russell Brand Did & The Great American Vibe Shift
Listen: The TV Show That Was Fun Until It Wasn’t & The New Bookshelf Rule
Listen: Everything Jessie Stephens Did Before Getting To Work
Listen: Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word ‘Apology’.
Listen: Kristen, Dax & Nobody Wants This
Listen: Jennifer Lawrence’s ‘Hot Mum’ Rebrand & The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore
Listen: Love Gap Relationships & It Started With An Argument About A Dish Rack
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Got questions or things you'd like Mia to talk about? Email us at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
Mamamia Out Loud on Apple
What to read:
Every woman has an 'I Don't' list. And it's about time we shared them.
"I shared my 'I Don't' list. Now a whole lot of Aussie women are sharing theirs."
"I wrote a book in nine months while working full time. Here's how."
SALLY HEPWORTH: 'I'm a best-selling, full-time author. This is how I did it.'
THE END BITS:
Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com
Keen for more? Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.
Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This morning Holly picked Amelia up at 5:30am with a coffee and a podcast already queued. Amelia learned that the subtext was ‘no talking until the sun comes up’.
Russell Brand spent two decades doing a very convincing impression of a man who loved women. We unpack the Russell Brand verdict, the system that protected him and the women who waited two decades to hear a court label him as guilty.

Plus, Holly has the inside word on the James Bond shortlist which just grew by two names. One of them has Jessie threatening to flip a table.

Also, David Jones has collapsed into administration after 188 years. We speak about what we love about department stores, why we think they’ve fallen and Jessie has some advice for anyone sitting on a gift card.
And, Holly has found a rare, obsolete English word that she can’t stop saying. Amelia explains why last week’s US midterms might have earned it.
If you have experienced sexual assault and are in need of support, please call 1800 RESPECT on 1800 737 732. You can also contact Bravehearts for counselling and support for survivors of sexual abuse on 1800 272 831 and Lifeline for 24-hour crisis support.
Subscribe here for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription for Black Friday with code BLACK30. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends November 30.
IQVIA™ Total Australian Data, Oral Hydration, Value and Unit Sales, 52 weeks to June 2026.
What To Listen To Next:
Listen to our latest episode: The TV Show That Was Fun Until It Wasn’t & The New Bookshelf Rule
Listen: Everything Jessie Stephens Did Before Getting To Work
Listen: Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word ‘Apology’.
Listen: Kristen, Dax & Nobody Wants This
Listen: Jennifer Lawrence’s ‘Hot Mum’ Rebrand & The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore
Listen: Love Gap Relationships & It Started With An Argument About A Dish Rack
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Get access to Very Peri, Mamamia's exclusive perimenopause series, for just $59. 25 world-leading experts, over 20 on-demand sessions, available now. We’ve sorted through the noise so you don't have to. Go to veryperi.com.au today. You hot? Same.
Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
Mamamia Out Loud on Apple
What to read:
Russell Brand is a convicted rapist. This is how we got here.
'Serious criminal offending.' Russell Brand has been found guilty of rape and sexual assault.
For many of us, David Jones wasn't just a shop.
'This man better be James Bond or I'll cry.'
THE END BITS:
Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.
Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Em Vernem changes the books on her shelf every time a date comes over. Margaret Atwood goes front and centre. So does a novel she hasn't actually read. Today Jessie Stephens wants to know how we're all arranging our books, and why a fantasy series coming out two centimetres taller has sent Em into a full meltdown.

Plus, Holly Wainwright asks whether there's any such thing as guilt-free reality TV, after Celebrity Traitors UK ended under a duty of care cloud.

Also, Em explains how a 20-year-old just became Formula One world champion and why his teammate went silent on the radio.

And for our recommendations, Jessie has cheated on us with another podcast, Holly watched a horror movie on purpose, and Em has a dip worth taking to a party.

Plus, Holly has a new book coming out! You can pre order her book here.
Subscribe here for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription for Black Friday with code BLACK30. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends November 30.
Women 30+, we want to hear from you! Take our quick 3-minute survey for your chance to win a $1,000 gift card.
Recommendations
Em recommends the snack the 3 Layer nacho dip and if you can't find it to make your own.
Jessie recommends her brand new podcast, Lazy Girl Hour.
Holly recommends Backrooms and to preorder her upcoming book, What I Did To Deserve You.
Keen for more? Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.
What To Listen To Next:
Listen to our latest episode: Everything Jessie Stephens Did Before Getting To Work
Listen: Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word ‘Apology’.
Listen: Kristen, Dax & Nobody Wants This
Listen: Jennifer Lawrence’s ‘Hot Mum’ Rebrand & The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore
Listen: Love Gap Relationships & It Started With An Argument About A Dish Rack
Listen: So What For Aussies If Trump "Loses" Next Week? Allow Us To Explain.
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
Mamamia Out Loud on Apple
What to read:
'I'm the friend people come to for book recs. These are the 9 books I tell everyone to read.'
HOLLY WAINWRIGHT: 'My days have been a bit sh*t lately. This book is helping.'
Rainbow books and random piles: 14 women share how they style their bookcases.
'I just finished reading the new ACOTAR book. Here are my very honest thoughts.'
'The best reality show of 2025 was one you probably missed.'
THE END BITS:
Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.
Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud
CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Jessie Stephens & Emily Vernem
Acting Group Executive Producer: Georgie Page
Executive Producer: Keeshia Pettit
Video Producer: Matt Perry
Associate Producer: Tessa Kotowicz
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A blue wave just swept across America, with Democrats seizing both houses of Congress and flipping states like Texas and Kansas that haven’t voted that way in decades.
Our very own Amelia Lester joins The Quicky to unpack what it means for Trump’s final two years, from the Iran war to AI, and the voters who abandoned him. Plus, we meet the half-Aussie senator some are tipping as the Democrats’ best shot at the White House in 2028.
Subscribe here for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription for Black Friday with code BLACK30. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends November 30.
Women 30+, we want to hear from you! Take our quick 3-minute survey for your chance to win a $1,000 gift card.
What To Listen To Next:
Listen to our latest episode: Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word ‘Apology’.
Listen: Kristen, Dax & Nobody Wants This
Listen: Jennifer Lawrence’s ‘Hot Mum’ Rebrand & The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore
Listen: Love Gap Relationships & It Started With An Argument About A Dish Rack
Listen: So What For Aussies If Trump "Loses" Next Week? Allow Us To Explain.
Listen: "Am I A Bad Friend?" Our Team's Personal Dilemmas
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Get access to Very Peri, Mamamia's exclusive perimenopause series, for just $59. 25 world-leading experts, over 20 on-demand sessions, available now. We’ve sorted through the noise so you don't have to. Go to veryperi.com.au today. You hot? Same.
Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
Mamamia Out Loud on Apple
What to read:
The most terrifying part of all of this.
For many young Australians, this election feels like hope.
THE END BITS:
Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.
Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.