The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast

In this episode, I interviewed Chelsea Kim Long about her forthcoming book, Faithfully Dissident Daughters: Reclaiming Christian Womanhood Beyond Patriarchy. The conversation opens with a discussion of the Southern Baptist denomination's recent ruling restricting women from pastoral roles and the broader rise of Christian nationalism in the United States. Chelsea shares her personal story of growing up in non-denominational evangelicalism in the Midwest, where she was steeped in conservative patriarchal theology that framed gender hierarchies as benevolent.  

She describes how her faith began to crack during college, first through questions about LGBTQ inclusion and social justice, and then more profoundly after becoming a mother — when pregnancy, a traumatic birth, postpartum depression, and infertility collided with a theology that had no framework for her embodied suffering. She recounts being told by church communities not to seek mental health medication, enduring years of shame and silence, and finally starting medication in 2020, which she describes as life changing. 

Chelsea frames her deconstruction as an "hourglass" experience — everything she knew passed through a narrow, painful filter of grief and self-reckoning, but emerged into a more expansive, authentic faith. She now identifies as post-evangelical but remains a committed Christian, serving as a lay pastor and theologian in an intentional house church community.  

 Her book argues for a Christianity shaped by women's wisdom and embodied spiritual practice, pushing back against male-dominated theology and calling for spaces where women's bodies, voices, and leadership are fully affirmed. The episode closes with Chelsea describing the book's practical elements — journaling prompts, meditative coloring pages, a discussion guide, and chapters on embodied spiritual practices — and sharing where listeners can pre-order the book and connect with her online. 
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Author Meg Calvin joins me on the podcast to share her journey from preaching at age 13 in the Methodist church to leaving full-time ministry in 2018. She reflects on how people-pleasing and unhealed childhood wounds drove her pastoral work, and we commiserate about the dysfunctional dynamics of church leadership—pedestals, underpayment, and unqualified boards blocking vision.
After leaving ministry, Meg spent eight years exploring mysticism and intuitive development, which culminated in a profound encounter with Jesus that led her back to church—this time integrating her mystical gifts alongside her faith. She now coaches spiritual leaders in writing their books and has just released her debut novel entitled There, He Holds Her.
Find a copy of Meg's book here on Amazon!
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In this week's episode, I welcome back a returning guest and good friend, Canadian author and former fundamentalist Christian, Janice Selbie. We discuss her upcoming book, The Guru Gene: From Blind Faith to Clear Thinking in an Age of Influence, dropping at the end of August.  
We explore why intelligent, educated people are just as susceptible to cults, cons, and high-control groups as anyone else. To explain this, we touch on cognitive biases like pareidolia and apophenia, the role of certainty over accuracy, echo chambers, and cult dynamics evident in religion, politics (including MAGA and Trump-worship), and beyond.  
Drawing on our personal deconversion experiences, we also discuss the destabilizing nature of deconstruction, the importance of community both within and after leaving high-demand groups, and practical tools—like Socratic questioning, intellectual humility, and tolerating uncertainty—for resisting manipulation and helping others find their way out. For those who have left a cult or high-control religious group, this conversation will empower you both to discover and rebuild your authentic self. 
Religious Trauma Syndrome Coaching, Workshop & Support Group | Divorcing Religion 
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This week's conversation features an interview with Josh Foster, a former missionary kid turned licensed therapist who specializes in helping people recover from religious trauma. Josh recounts how his life changed dramatically at age five when his parents converted to conservative evangelicalism, leading the family to give away all their possessions and spend nearly five years living on Operation Mobilization's missionary ships sailing through Europe and Scandinavia.  
Growing up among missionaries, handing out gospel tracts on the streets of New York and London, and being educated through field trips to historical sites gave Josh a uniquely global perspective — one that would later make it impossible for him to fit comfortably into American evangelical culture when the family returned to the States. 
The conversation then shifts to Josh's long and painful journey out of the faith, a process that took over two decades despite his growing disillusionment. After spending 23 years in ministry — including a lengthy stint with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship staffing college campuses — Josh began asking "what if" questions after encountering colleagues who were devout Christians yet voted Democrat, and after leading students through rigorous inductive Bible study that he couldn't reconcile with what he heard in American churches.  
He eventually left ministry, retrained as a therapist at age 41, and now uses narrative therapy to help others who have exited religious systems — guiding them to reframe their life stories, externalize their problems, and build new tools for living outside the guardrails of the belief systems that shaped them.
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This conversation features Rob Thain Smith — author of Four and Twenty Blackbirds: The Trial of Paul Petry, the Beginning of the End of Mars Hill Church. We discuss the rise and fall of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, led by controversial pastor Mark Driscoll. Rob shares his first-hand experience as a long-time member who was in the process of becoming an elder when the church's governance crisis began.
The central conflict we explore is the 2007 bylaw changes at Mars Hill that consolidated power away from a plurality of 24 elders and into Driscoll's hands. Rob recounts the controversial trial of elder Paul Petry, who was fired and put through a deeply flawed, unjust internal process for minor infractions — largely because he posed a threat to Driscoll's growing authority.
Rob argues that the real failure of Mars Hill was not Driscoll alone, but the 24 elders who, despite knowing the trial was wrong, unanimously voted against Petry out of fear and self-interest. The conversation also covers the church's culture of shunning, Driscoll's continued platform at his Arizona church Trinity, and Rob's motivation for writing the book — to offer a more nuanced, leadership-focused account than the widely listened-to Christianity Today podcast series about Mars Hill.
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