Never the Same

• Leadership Reflections—Western Australia Chief Psychiatrist Nathan Gibson, Mental Health Commissioner Maureen Lewis

  In this episode of "Never the Same," Tony Pisani sits down with two of Western Australia's leading mental health voices: Maureen Lewis, Mental Health Commissioner since 2023, and Dr. Nathan Gibson, Chief Psychiatrist since 2013. Together, they represent both the vision for reform and the clinical guardrails of accountability in Western Australia’s mental health system.The conversation explores their unique roles in the mental health landscape, from commissioning services to regulatory oversight. They share insights on strategic leadership, including frameworks for crisis decision-making and the importance of "thinking time" in complex systems. The discussion covers First Nations mental health approaches, the integration of lived experience voices, and their shift toward trauma-informed care.Both leaders reflect on their accidental paths to leadership, the challenges of managing a mental health system across one of the world's largest geographic health services, and what gives them hope for the future. Their candid discussion offers valuable lessons for anyone interested in systemic change and leadership in challenging environments.Guests:Maureen Lewis was appointed Mental Health Commissioner for Western Australia in July 2023. In this role, she oversees the commissioning of all mental health and drug and alcohol services in Western Australia, a role that combines purchasing decisions with advocacy. Dr. Nathan Gibson has served as Western Australia's Chief Psychiatrist since 2013. He provides independent regulatory oversight under the Mental Health Act. His focus includes standards of care, quality, safety, and reducing restrictive practices across public and private psychiatric services.Host Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.

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• Prof. Pat Dudgeon's Groundbreaking Life and Work on Social Emotional Wellbeing

  In this inspiring instalment of Never the Same, host Dr Tony Pisani welcomes Professor Pat Dudgeon, the first Aboriginal psychologist in Australia and a global voice for First Nations mental health. Pat describes how confronting the racism in the system sparked her mission to “decolonise” psychology and build a new framework called Social and Emotional Wellbeing, a model that places self, family, community, culture, and Country at the centre of healing.Across the episode, Pat and Tony revisit moments such as the Ways Forward national report, discuss why Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander suicide demands distinct responses, and celebrate community-led successes, from Indigenous Rangers caring for land to universities rewriting psychology curricula. Key PointsPat’s path to becoming the first Aboriginal psychologistOrigins and pillars of the SEWB paradigmThe Ways Forward report and Boat Shed DeclarationDistinct drivers of Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander suicideSuccess stories: Indigenous Rangers, psychology curriculum reformThe role of climate action and caring for Country Resources MentionedWays Forward: National Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Mental Health Policy Report SEWB model diagram & “Working Together” chapter Dance of Life wellbeing model by Prof Helen MilroySweetgrass Research Method — Dr Mark Standing Eagle BaezIndigenous Rangers Program (Australia) Professor Pat Dudgeon is a Bardi woman from the Kimberley and Australia’s first Aboriginal psychologist. She co-chairs the Centre of Best Practice in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Suicide Prevention and advocates for culturally informed mental-health systems worldwide.Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities. 

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• A Global Vision for Crisis Support: Alan Woodward's Hope for the Future

  Alan Woodward has spent decades strengthening crisis services around the world — from answering calls on the Lifeline crisis line to advising government leaders and building new programs. In this episode, Alan reflects on what it takes to face hard moments, how crisis services save lives, and why kindness (to others and ourselves) matters more than we realise.Together, we explore the lessons Alan learned growing up in a coastal city in Australia, navigating career changes, managing anxiety, and staying committed to making the world better.Guest: Alan Woodward is a global leader in crisis support and suicide prevention. His work spans decades of service as a researcher, advocate, and advisor to governments and organisations, with deep roots in community-based care.Host: Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities. Resources and References Mentioned: Madelyn Gould, Columbia University – suicide prevention research.Consensus Statement on Crisis Support from international crisis line networksInternational Association for Suicide Prevention – work on decriminalisation of suicide Lifeline International – Alan’s current organisation Ghana's Decriminalisation of Suicide – paper Australia’s National Suicide Prevention Strategy – released this year Professor Rory O’Connor – theory of suicide and the role of entrapmentRoyal Commission into Robodebt (Australia) – Submission from Suicide Prevention Australia 

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• What about the Children? Five Values for Multiracial Families with Nicole Doyley

  Nicole Doyley’s life and writing centre on one key question: What about the children?In this episode, Nicole reflects on growing up in a biracial family, her evolving racial identity, and the parenting values she developed as a result. She discusses transracial adoption, the impact of Black History Month, how culture shapes resilience, and why awareness and humility are essential for any caregiver.Nicole shares her family’s story, from her parents’ marriage in the 1960s (when their marriage was still illegal in some states) to her own cross-cultural marriage to a Jamaican man, and how these experiences shaped her understanding of race, belonging, and what it means to be “seen.”Guest: Nicole Doyley is an author and podcast host whose latest book, What About the Children? Five Values for Multiracial Families draws from her personal and professional experiences. Nicole grew up in a biracial family, served as a campus pastor, and now helps parents and communities navigate race, identity, and parenting with honesty and cultural awareness.Host: Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities.Resources and References: Nicole Doyley – What About the Children? Five Values for Multiracial FamiliesChimamanda Ngozi Adichie – The Danger of a Single StoryThe Mis-Education of the Negro by Carter G. WoodsonLecrae – story of racial identity, healing, and therapyU.S. Census – changes to allow multiple racial identities (2000)Nicole's podcast – First a Man: growing up in a Black nation (featuring her husband Marvin)

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• Leading with Purpose: CEO Nieves Murray on Change, Compassion, and Community

  In this episode, Nieves Murray, CEO of Suicide Prevention Australia, joins Dr. Tony Pisani for an insightful conversation about leadership, equity, and personal transformation. From her early career in engineering to leading national suicide prevention strategy, Nieves brings a rich mix of personal stories, professional insights, and hard-earned wisdom.Key ThemesThe power of bilingual and bicultural identityLeadership lessons from aged care, finance, and suicide preventionChanging minds: how experience reshapes perspectiveBalancing data with lived experience in policy workGrief, care, and learning from family Nieves Murray: Nieves Murray is the CEO of Suicide Prevention Australia and has spent over 35 years in leadership roles across aged care, finance, and human services. Recognised as one of Australia’s 100 Most Influential Women, she is a champion of systems thinking, community voice, and inclusive policy.Dr. Tony Pisani: Dr. Tony Pisani is a professor, clinician, and founder of SafeSide Prevention, leading its mission to build safer, more connected military, health, education, and workplace communities. Resources and References National Policy Platform by Suicide Prevention AustraliaGood to Great: Why Some Companies Make The Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins 

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