Scaling UP! H2O

• 436 Raising the Bar: Legionella Management & Industry Standards

  With those words, Jemma Tennant highlights one of the most profound differences between Legionella management in Europe and the United States. In this episode of Scaling UP! H2O, host Trace Blackmore welcomes Jemma Tennant, Chair of the Water Management Society (WMSoc), to explore how legislation, enforcement, and professional training shape the fight against Legionella.   Proactive Regulation and Duty of Care  The UK treats Legionella as a foreseeable and preventable risk. Jemma explains how laws like the Health and Safety at Work Act and COSHH Regulations require mandatory Legionella risk assessments, temperature monitoring, and written control schemes—even when no cases have occurred. This contrasts with the U.S., where ASHRAE 188 serves as guidance rather than enforceable law, often triggering enforcement only after outbreaks.  Jemma shares a case study where a housing association was fined £1.2 million despite no recorded illness, underscoring the UK’s proactive stance on protecting public health. Hospitals, Design, and Emerging Challenges  From hospital plumbing layouts to new “waterless” intensive care units, Jemma details how design choices can either mitigate or magnify waterborne risk. Scotland’s model of involving water safety groups at the design stage provides a proactive example for healthcare worldwide. She also outlines how climate change, net-zero initiatives, and rising ambient temperatures are complicating control strategies across Europe.  Raising Standards Through Collaboration  As Chair of WMSoc, Jemma is leading efforts to raise industry standards and reverse what she calls a “race to the bottom.” She describes partnerships with AWT in the U.S. and LMAG in Australia to share expertise across borders. The episode also explores her pursuit of the Certified Water Technologist (CWT) credential and her vision for adapting the certification for UK professionals.  Conclusion  This conversation is a call to action for water treatment professionals everywhere: regulations, standards, and collaboration matter. Whether in cooling towers, hospitals, or housing estates, Legionella management requires vigilance, shared knowledge, and a commitment to raising the bar. Listen to the full episode and discover how global collaboration can shape safer water management practices.  Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps 01:55 - Trace Blackmore introduces the final installment of Legionella Awareness Month 2025  05:30 - Water You Know with James McDonald   07:30 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals     14:50 - Interview with Jemma Tennant, SMS Environmental, Chair of the Water Management Society (WMSoc)  15:24 - Jemma’s background: growing up in the U.S. and UK, science upbringing, rotifers, and wastewater treatment career.  32:25 - The Water Management Society: structure, training, collaboration with AWT and LMAG  43:00 - Raising industry standards: combating the “race to the bottom” in UK water treatment.    Quotes “In the UK, we’re prosecuted for the potential for harm, not just actual harm. Legionella is treated as a foreseeable and preventable risk.”  “It’s the transition between just doing the task to understanding the why behind the task.”  “We’re seeing a serious drop in industry standards—a race to the bottom—and that’s why raising the bar is so important.”  “At the end of it, the CWT covers everything. You end up being a complete water treater.”  “Always be honest when you don’t know the answer, then go and learn. That’s how you grow.”   Connect with Jemma Tennant Phone: 447828315336  Email: [email protected]   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jemma-tennant-mwmsoc-2636985b/    Guest Resources Mentioned  Water Management Society (WMSoc)  LMAG - Legionella Management Advisory Group - LMAG  The Women by Kristin Hannah (Author)  HTM 04-01 – UK healthcare water safety standards  The Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations 2002 (COSHH Regulations 2002)  Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974  UKAS Accreditation  ANAB (US Laboratory Accreditation)    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  ANSI/ASHRAE Standard 188-2021 for Legionnaires’ Disease Risk Management  ASHRAE Standard-188-2021, Building Water Management Plans – Summary  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind Ep 101 The One with Colin Frayne, CWT  Ep 203 The One With Our Across The Pond Legionella Expert, John Sandford  Ep 370 Unlocking Legionella Solutions: Perspectives on Regulations and Best Practices    Water You Know with James McDonald Question: Does Hydroxide Alkalinity in a steam boiler water ALWAYS equal 2P-M?   2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.     

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• 435 Optimizing Legionella Control Strategies with Dr. Vincenzo Romano Spica

  Legionella remains one of the most complex challenges for water professionals worldwide. How do we balance effective monitoring with realistic costs—and which strategies deliver true public health impact? In this episode, Trace Blackmore welcomes Dr. Vincenzo Romano Spica,  Head Public Health University of Rome "Foro Italico to explore new insights from his comparative research on Legionella control. Reframing Legionella Risk  Dr. Spica explains why public health data increasingly points to Legionella pneumophila—not all Legionella species—as the primary concern for human health. He shares how pan-European data modeling and peer-reviewed studies demonstrate that broad-spectrum monitoring may overburden systems without delivering proportional safety gains.  Cost-Benefit Models and Sustainability  Water professionals know that testing and compliance require resources. Dr. Spica discusses cost-benefit analysis frameworks that help decision-makers evaluate where investments deliver the greatest reduction in risk. He also highlights the sustainability implications of over-testing, from lab resources to environmental waste streams.  European Regulations and Legal Liability  The conversation also explores the European Drinking Water Directive 2020/2184, national approaches to Legionella, and how liability shifts when contamination is detected. Dr. Spica’s insights illuminate what building owners, operators, and regulators must weigh as they update management plans.  Conclusion  For engineers, operators, and technical managers, this episode provides a clear framework for thinking about Legionella beyond routine testing. It’s about focusing on the pathogen that truly drives disease outcomes, aligning regulatory strategy with science, and applying resources where they matter most.  Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps    02:24 - Trace opens the episode, welcoming listeners to Legionella Awareness Month and framing the call to action  05:37 - Water You Know with James McDonald  10:04 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals   14:06 - Trace introduces Dr. Vincenzo Romano Spica, Head of Public Health at the University of Rome Foro Italico   17:22 - Dr. Spica outlines why Legionella pneumophila is the main pathogen of concern in Europe 35:04 - Dr. Spica explains Disability Adjusted Life Years (DALYs) as a measure of public health burden  44:08 - Monitoring strategies and how different culture methods affect outcomes  46:16 - The role of water temperature in Legionella proliferation    Quotes  “Not all Legionella are equal—public health data shows us it’s Legionella pneumophila that drives the real risk.”  “Testing everything may look safer on paper, but in practice, it diverts resources from where they can have the greatest impact.”  “Risk management should not be a checklist; it should be a strategic allocation of resources aligned with outcomes.”  “European data models show that a targeted approach can deliver both better safety and greater sustainability.”    Connect with Dr. Vincenzo Romano Spica   Phone: +39.06.36733247 Email: [email protected]  LinkedIn: vincenzo romano spica | LinkedIn        Guest Resources Mentioned   Legionnaires’ Disease Surveillance and Public Health Policies in Italy: A Mathematical Model for Assessing Prevention Strategies by Dr. Spica et. al  Alessando Cassini’s Burden of Infectious Diseases in Europe methodological challenges and opportunities for public health policy  NLM’s Impact of infectious diseases on population health using incidence-based disability-adjusted life years (DALYs): results from the Burden of Communicable Diseases in Europe study, European Union and European Economic Area countries, 2009 to 2013  Supplemental information: Impact of UAT Diagnostic Methods on Estimates of Legionnaires’ disease Caused by non-pneumophila Legionella    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  Scaling UP! H2O’s Legionella Resources Library  434 Encore Interview with Patsy Root    Water You Know with James McDonald  Question: What is it called when a valve is closed at the end of a pipeline system causing a pressure wave to propagate in the pipe and a loud banging sound?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.     

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• 434 Encore Interview with Patsy Root

  “Rules written in a panic rarely stand the test of time.”   In this encore episode, Trace Blackmore welcomes back Patsy Root, Senior Manager of Government Affairs at IDEXX Water and active member of the AWT Legislative and Regulatory Committee. Patsy brings global data, case studies, and clear recommendations for smarter Legionella regulation — and why a targeted focus on Legionella pneumophila can save both lives and resources.   From Outbreaks to Proactive Policies  Patsy unpacks a central truth: most regulations emerge reactively, often after a high-profile outbreak. Drawing on her research from the U.S., Canada, and Europe, she compares different jurisdictions’ approaches — from Quebec’s targeted testing mandate to New York City’s broader species-based rule — and reveals why some frameworks reduce cases far more effectively than others.  The Case for Targeted Testing  Legionella encompasses around 60 species, but not all carry equal risk. Patsy explains why L. pneumophila — the species most responsible for Legionnaires’ disease — demands priority in monitoring and control. Through examples from France, Germany, the UK, and beyond, she demonstrates how focusing on the pathogen itself, rather than all species, leads to measurable public health gains and cost savings.  Educating Lawmakers and Industry  Beyond technical data, Patsy emphasizes the importance of water professionals engaging with legislators. She outlines how clear communication, evidence-based recommendations, and standards like ASHRAE 188 can guide practical, enforceable rules. Her advice balances science with real-world feasibility, helping both regulators and facility managers protect health without unnecessary expense.  This conversation is more than a policy discussion — it’s a blueprint for better public health protection through smart, focused water management. Whether you work in compliance, operations, or advocacy, Patsy’s insights will equip you to engage in the legislative process with clarity and authority. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps 01:52 - Trace opens with Legionella Awareness Month reflections and the importance of challenging industry assumptions   05:38 - Water You Know with James McDonald  07:13 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals  09:47 - Introduction to guest Patsy Root, Senior Manager of Government Affairs at IDEXX Water and member of AWT’s Legislative & Regulatory Committee.  17:31 - Global comparison of Legionella-related laws and guidelines  27:03 - Understanding Legionella species vs. L. pneumophila  44:42 - Legislative engagement tips for water professionals    Quotes  “The worst time to write a rule is when you’re in the middle of a panic.”  “Finding Legionella species is not the same risk level as finding L. pneumophila — and the data prove it.”  “Keep the hot water hot, keep the cold water cold, keep the water moving, and keep a decent disinfectant.”  “Biology fascinates me — the fact that bacteria can signal each other to come join a good spot is both creepy and amazing.”  “When lawmakers understand how preventable this disease is, they can become champions for real change.”    Connect with Patsy Root Phone: 207-523-0835  Email: [email protected]   Website: https://www.idexx.com/en/water/    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/idexx-laboratories/    Guest Resources Mentioned   CDC Toolkit: Developing a Legionella Water Management Program  IDEXX Legiolert® Testing Method  IDEXX’s Why test for Legionella pneumophila to prevent Legionnaires’ disease?  Data and Case Study of Effective Legionella Regulations by Patsy Root   NASEM’s Management of Legionella in Water Systems (2019)   MD 15161 – 2013 Control of Legionella in Mechanical Systems  Assessment of monitoring approaches to control Legionella pneumophila within a complex cooling tower system by Michele Prevost et al   The Legionella collagen-like protein employs a distinct binding mechanism for the recognition of host glycosaminoglycans by Garnett et al   The 5 bacterial indicators used by WHO were published in 2013 by Dufour et al   The 5 bacterial indicators used by WHO covered by KWR Publication starting on Page 54 – Section 7.4.4.  Canada Legionella bacteria control in federal buildings  Leveraging regulatory monitoring data for quantitative microbial risk assessment of Legionella pneumophila in cooling towers  NYC Data Catalog about Cooling Tower Registrations  NYC Health’s Cooling Tower Registration and Maintenance    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned AWT (Association of Water Technologies)   AWT’s Legislative/Regulatory Committee   Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind  403 Navigating the New Frontier: Patsy Root on Legionella Legislation   Scaling UP! H2O’s Legionella Resources Library  ASHRAE Standard-188-2021, Building Water Management Plans – Summary    Water You Know with James   Question: What is the mass balance around a cooling tower?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.   

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• 433 Legionella Investigations and LIDO Technology

  What if preventing Legionella outbreaks wasn’t about adding more chemicals, but removing what the bacteria needs to survive? In this episode of Scaling UP! H2O, host Trace Blackmore talks with Dr. David Krause, Certified Industrial Hygienist, toxicologist, and founder of HC3, about his groundbreaking approach — LIDO (Legionella Inhibition by Deoxygenation). Legionella on the Rise  Dr. Krause has investigated high-profile Legionella outbreaks and seen firsthand how current prevention strategies often fall short. Despite ASHRAE 188 standards, CMS requirements, and increasing water management plan adoption, Legionella cases continue to climb — often due to infrastructure issues, insufficient monitoring, and a lack of evidence-based guidance.  Inside an Outbreak Investigation  From the first call at 4:30 on a Friday to the coordination between local health departments, state agencies, and the CDC, Krause explains the rigorous (and sometimes chaotic) process of pinpointing outbreak sources. He also reveals why public communication can make or break an outbreak response.  Introducing LIDO Technology  Rather than relying solely on chemical disinfection, LIDO uses gas transfer membrane contactors to remove dissolved oxygen from hot water systems. Legionella can’t thrive below 0.3 ppm DO — meaning systems treated with LIDO create an inhospitable environment for growth. Krause shares lab results, pilot project findings, and how this approach could extend system life while reducing corrosion and byproducts. The Bigger Picture  This episode goes beyond technology — it’s about rethinking water management, building better outbreak communication, and challenging industry norms. Whether you’re a facility manager, water treater, or public health professional, Krause’s insights will shift the way you think about Legionella control.   Prevention starts with awareness — and action. Dr. Krause’s work shows there’s more than one path to safer water systems, and innovation comes from asking better questions.  Listen now to discover how Legionella investigations unfold and how LIDO technology could reshape prevention. Download the free discussion guide located at Connect with the Guest section, and start the conversation with your team.  Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps   02:24 - Trace Blackmore shares an Introduction to Legionella Awareness Month and the value of ANSI/ASHRAE 188, ASSE 12080 certification  08:17 - Water You Know with James McDonald  11:52 - Interview with Dr. David Krause and his background in public health, toxicology, and Legionella Investigations   16:36 - Why cases are rising despite standards, plans, and certifications  21:39 - The significance of Legionella pneumophila serogroup 1 vs. other species  26:38 - Media influence on outbreak perception and the need for accurate communication  31:15 - Business risks of not having a water management plan  41:48 - How LIDO works: removing dissolved oxygen to prevent Legionella growth  48:41 - Current pilot projects and operational considerations    Quotes  “Legionella is an obligate aerobe – without dissolved oxygen, it simply can’t grow.” “An ounce of prevention is worth ten pounds of cure when it comes to water management plans.” “Once an outbreak starts, testing becomes your life.” “We have so much information on waterborne pathogens – the challenge is making a habit of learning the next thing.”   Connect with Dr. David Krause Phone: 850-766-1938   Email: [email protected]   Website: http://www.hc3fl.com/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdavidkrause/     Guest Resources Mentioned   AIHA – Recognition, Evaluation, and Control of Legionella in Building Water Systems (2nd Edition, 2022)   ACGIH – Bioaerosols: Assessment and Control (Red Book, Updated Edition)   IDSA's 'Increasing Incidence of Legionellosis in the United States, 1990–2005: Changing Epidemiologic Trends'   Legionella and the Role of Dissolved Oxygen in Its Growth and Inhibition: A Review by J. David Krause   Journal of Occupational and Environmental Hygiene Controlling Legionella pneumophila growth in hot water systems by reducing dissolved oxygen levels by J. David Krause   CSTE – National Legionellosis Case Definitions (2020)  LIDO: A Revolutionary Approach to Legionella Management    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  Scaling UP! H2O’s Legionella Resources Library   ASHRAE Standard 188 (Legionellosis: Risk Management for Building Water Systems)  ASHRAE-188-2021-Summary-Technical-Bulletin_01.pdf    Water You Know with James Question: Despite all the training, engineering controls, policies, regulations, laws, and direction, at the end of the day, who is most responsible for your personal safety?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.     

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• 432 Water Management Plans: Evolving Standards and Best Practices with Matt Freije

  "Just because you have a water management plan doesn’t mean it’s working."  That’s the hard truth Matt Freije, founder and CEO of HC Info, delivers in this episode of Scaling UP! H2O. As the architect behind LAMPS — a leading cloud-based platform for water management programs — Matt joins Trace Blackmore to explore the critical evolution of water safety, compliance standards, and real-world implementation challenges facing facilities in 2025.   Beyond the Binder: Water Management Plans That Actually Work  In an era of heightened awareness and shifting regulations, simply checking the compliance box is no longer enough. Matt walks us through the CDC data and ASHRAE findings that make a strong case for active, ongoing water management — not just documentation. Drawing from recent outbreak investigations, he explains why implementation, not content, is often the root failure.  Trace and Matt discuss the widespread misconception that water management plans guarantee zero Legionella. They also address the real barriers preventing facilities from taking action — from budget limitations to internal roadblocks — and what water professionals can do to influence smarter, risk-based decisions. Regulatory Pressure, AI Integration, and What’s Coming Next  With ASHRAE 514, AAMI ST108, and ASSE 12080 gaining ground, the water industry is seeing increased scrutiny, especially in healthcare and hospitality facilities. Matt outlines how these evolving standards are transforming expectations and forcing a shift in accountability.  The conversation takes a forward-looking turn as they explore the power of AI and aggregated analytics to optimize pathogen control. With 10,000 buildings in the LAMPS system, HC Info is preparing to offer data that could shape public health outcomes nationwide — a move that could redefine how we benchmark performance and interpret Legionella test data at scale. Culture, Purpose, and Long-Term Vision  As a mechanical engineer with an epidemiology background, Matt also reflects on the human side of leadership — from building a values-driven team to embracing his faith as a cornerstone of decision-making. His message for water treaters is clear: “Either do it well or don’t do it.”  For facilities leaders, his advice is to stop fearing complexity and start leveraging the tools available — because water management done right can improve not just compliance, but health outcomes, asset longevity, and operational resilience. Conclusion  This episode is a masterclass in how to future-proof your water safety strategy. With actionable insights, emerging technologies, and a clear call to accountability, Matt Freije reminds us that smart water management is both a technical responsibility and a moral imperative.  Listen to the full conversation to understand how new standards, digital tools, and intentional leadership are shaping the future of water safety. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps   04:50 – Trace reflects on feedback from listeners who learned the origins of Legionella and how re-telling important stories is essential in water treatment education  06:49 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals 12:44 – Water You Know with James McDonald  14:14 – Introduction with Matt Freije returning guest   15:46 – Biggest Challenges in Water Management Plans Today  19:47 – Regulatory Evolution: ASHRAE 514, ASC 12080, and Joint Commission Inspections  44:14 – The Document is Not the Plan: Why Systems Must Be Implemented  48:08 – Impact and Adoption: Why Water Management Plans Truly Matter    Quotes  “Either do it well, or don’t do it. A half-hearted water management plan can do more harm than good.”   “Most facilities still don’t have a water management plan — and many don’t even know what one is.”  “Just because you had the conversation once doesn’t mean it stuck. With Legionella, repeating the important things is critical.”  “Analytics should make the problem obvious — you shouldn’t need a PhD to interpret what your water data is telling you.”    Connect with Matt Freije  Email: [email protected] Website: Legionella Water Management Plans  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattfreije    Guest Resources Mentioned   HC Info  ASHRAE Standard 188 (Legionellosis: Risk Management for Building Water Systems)   ASSE 12080 Certification: Professional Qualifications for Legionella Water Safety and Management Personnel  Good Energy: The Surprising Connection Between Metabolism and Limitless Health by Casey Means  The Boys in the Boat: Nine Americans and Their Epic Quest for Gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics by Daniel James Brown   John Adams by David McCullough (Audiobook)   John Adams by David McCullough (Paperback)    Keep Your Love On: Connection Communication and Boundaries by Danny Silk (Paperback)  The Bible (KJV)     Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind   Legionella Resources Library  ANSI/AAMI ST108:2023 Water for the Processing of Medical Services   ASSE 12080 Training & Certification, Get certified to the ASSE/IAPMO/ANSI 12080 Standard: Professional Qualifications Standard for Legionella Water Safety and Management Personnel  CDC's  Key Findings: Outbreaks and Water Management Gaps (2015–2019 review of Legionnaires’ disease investigations   083 The One About Water Management Plans   431 Legionella Awareness Month Kickoff!    Water You Know with James McDonald  Question: What do we call the formation and subsequent collapse of vapor-filled bubbles in water due to rapid pressure changes?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.       

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