The Michael Shermer Show

• The Science of Revenge: Why Getting Even Feels So Good

  Why do we crave revenge? And why can’t we stop? In this episode, James Kimmel explains the neuroscience behind one of our most destructive urges. Drawing from his new book, The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World’s Deadliest Addiction, Kimmel reveals how revenge activates the same brain circuits as drugs like cocaine—and why even imagining payback can feel euphoric. If you’ve ever fantasized about revenge (and who hasn’t?), whether in politics or personal relationships, this episode offers a chilling yet hopeful look at the science of moral outrage and redemption. James Kimmel, Jr., JD, is a lecturer in psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine, a lawyer, and the founder and co-director of the Yale Collaborative for Motive Control Studies. A breakthrough scholar and expert on revenge, he first identified compulsive revenge seeking as an addiction and developed the behavioral addiction model of revenge as a public health approach for preventing and treating violence. His new book is The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World’s Deadliest Addiction—and How to Overcome It.

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• Why No One Thinks They’re in a Cult

  What really defines a cult—and why do smart, well-intentioned people get caught up in them? In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with cult intervention specialist Ashlen Hilliard to explore the psychology of high-control groups and the people drawn into them. Her work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, NewsNation, HuffPost, and BET+. In 2022, Ashlen founded People Leave Cults, offering intervention and recovery resources for survivors and concerned loved ones. As one of the few Cult Intervention Specialists in the country, Ashlen consults with a team of experts to develop personalized intervention strategies for families that have a loved one involved in a range of coercive situations, including cults, gangs, domestic violence, trafficking, and violent extremism. She also served as the Director of Events for the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), organizing regional and international events, workshops, and conferences for those affected by the cult phenomena and psychological manipulation. She is touring the Fall of 2025 in these cities for her show https://www.psychologyofcults.com/: October 8    Jacksonville, FL    Florida Theatre  October 9    Newberry, SC    Newberry Opera House  October 11    Huntsville, AL    Mars Music Hall  October 12    Bristol, TN    Paramount Bristol  October 14    Charleston, WV    Maier Foundation Performing Hall  October 16    Stroudsburg, PA    Sherman Theater  October 17    Morristown, NJ    Mayo Performing Arts Center  October 18    Stamford, CT    Palace Theatre  October 19    Concord, NH    Chubb Theatre  October 21    Buffalo, NY    Electric City  October 22    Columbus, OH    The Southern Theatre  October 24    Pontiac, MI    Flagstar Strand Theatre  October 26    Cincinnati, OH    Bogart's  October 28    Chicago, IL    City Winery  October 29    Indianapolis, IN    Clowes Memorial Hall  October 30    Cleveland, OH    Connor Palace  November 23 Livermore, CA    Livermore Valley Performing Arts Center 

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• Was Benjamin Franklin America’s First Scientist?

  Michael Shermer sits down with economist and Franklin descendant Dr. Mark Skousen to explore the wit, wisdom, and modern relevance of Benjamin Franklin, the man who bridged science, politics, and philosophy like no other. Shermer and Skousen discuss Franklin’s contributions to science, moral philosophy, economics, and religious thought, while asking: What would Franklin make of today’s America—its economy, politics, and culture? Mark Skousen holds the Doti-Spogli Chair of Free Enterprise at Chapman University. Known as “America’s Economist,” he is the editor of Forecasts & Strategies, an award winning investment newsletter, and producer of FreedomFest, “the world’s largest gathering of free minds.” He is the author of over 25 books, incl. his latest, The Greatest American: Benjamin Franklin, The World’s Most Versatile Genius.

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• COVID-19: What We Learned (and Didn’t) About Masks, Lockdowns, and Vaccines

  The COVID-19 pandemic was a devastating global event, killing more than seven million people, straining the fabric of societies, and shaking the foundations of the world economy. And yet, as horrifying as the experience was, COVID-19 was not “The Big One” — the dreaded pandemic that haunts the nightmares of epidemiologists and public health officials everywhere. That far deadlier outbreak is still ahead of us, and it will reshape life across the planet unless we’re ready for it. In this episode, Dr. Michael Osterholm, one of the world’s leading infectious disease experts, explains what we got wrong, what we got right, and what it all reveals about our preparedness for the next great pandemic. Michael Osterholm is Regents Professor and McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health at the University of Minnesota, where he founded and directs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP). An internationally renowned epidemiologist with fifty years of experience, he's led major outbreak investigations worldwide and authored over 350 papers. He served as a U.S. State Department science envoy from 2017-2019. His new book is The Big One: How We Must Prepare for Future Deadly Pandemics.

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• The Power of Common Knowledge: Steven Pinker on Language, Norms, and Punishment

  Common knowledge is necessary for coordination, for making arbitrary but complementary choices like driving on the right, using paper currency, and coalescing behind a political leader or movement. It’s also necessary for social coordination. Humans have a sixth sense for common knowledge, and we create it with signals like laughter, tears, blushing, eye contact, and blunt speech. But people also go to great lengths to avoid common knowledge—to ensure that even if everyone knows something, they can’t know that everyone else knows they know it. And so we get rituals like benign hypocrisy, veiled bribes and threats, sexual innuendo, and pretending not to see the elephant in the room. Pinker shows how the hidden logic of common knowledge can make sense of many of life’s enigmas: financial bubbles and crashes, revolutions that come out of nowhere, the posturing and pretense of diplomacy, the eruption of social media shaming mobs and academic cancel culture, the awkwardness of a first date. Steven Pinker is the Johnstone Professor of Psychology at Harvard University. He is an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, and one of Time’s “100 Most Influential People in the World Today.” He has won many prizes for his teaching, his research on language, cognition, and social relations, and his twelve books. His new book is When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows: Common Knowledge and the Mysteries of Money, Power, and Everyday Life.

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