That's Where I'm At

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura interviews Amy Watkins, a therapist turned truth teller, speaker, and author of Performing Normal: A Woman's Story from Self-Abandonment to Self-Leadership. Amy shares her powerful journey of growing up under religious conditioning and neglect, surviving sexual abuse, and enduring two abusive marriages shaped by trauma bonding and gaslighting. She reflects on how these experiences influenced her identity and kept her disconnected from her own needs and voice.
Amy opens up about her spiritual awakening and the difficult process of choosing herself after years of self-abandonment. She shares how small acts of self-care became part of her healing and encourages others to recognize subtle patterns of abuse, break toxic cycles, and reclaim their lives. Through her story and work, Amy reminds listeners that healing is not about becoming someone new—it's about discovering yourself, finding your voice, and learning to lead your own life.
 
Key Topics & Timestamps
Podcast Introduction (00:00:35) Host Laura introduces the podcast's mission: for women to share their stories and heal together from abuse and secrets.
Guest Introduction: Amy Watkins (00:01:33) Amy Watkins, a therapist and author, is introduced. Her book focuses on healing from childhood trauma and self-abandonment.
Why Amy Started Speaking Out (00:02:54) Amy shares that after being silenced for years, she started speaking out following a spiritual awakening and leaving her marriage.
Recognizing a "Nice" Abuser (00:04:34) Amy discusses her abusive marriage, where her husband was so "nice" and smothering that she couldn't recognize the abuse.
The Pettiness That Sparked Healing (00:07:01) Both Amy and Laura admit they initially started sharing their stories out of pettiness, which surprisingly resonated with many people.
Dealing with Negative Feedback (00:07:52) Amy talks about receiving negative comments and blame from others after she started sharing her story online and healing from it.
Religious Conditioning and Red Flags (00:09:15) Amy discusses her strict religious upbringing, which taught her to be a "good girl" and led to marrying quickly.
The Illusion of a "Right Life" (00:11:41) The speakers discuss how high-control religion teaches that doing the "right things" will earn heavenly rewards, justifying current suffering.
The Slow Decline in a Relationship (00:15:00) Amy explains how abusers "manage down expectations" over time, making victims grateful for small gestures, like a single text message.
The Reverse Hoover and Trauma Bonds (00:16:23) Amy describes the "reverse hoover," where her ex would vanish, activating her abandonment wounds and keeping her in a trauma bond.
The "I'm Trying" Tactic (00:19:28) Amy explains how abusers use generic phrases like "I'm trying" without any real effort or understanding of what needs to change.
The Dangers of Non-Trauma-Informed Therapy (00:21:22) Amy shares a negative experience with a therapist who wasn't trauma-informed, highlighting the importance of finding the right professional help.
Weaponizing Vulnerability (00:24:25) The host discusses how abusers weaponize shared vulnerabilities and past traumas, using them to deflect and maintain control in arguments.
The Brain's Healing Process (00:26:27) They discuss how, during healing, the brain starts recalling suppressed memories and lies, bringing clarity to past abusive situations.
Pathological Hope (00:28:00) Amy explains "pathological hope," where victims cling to the belief that their abuser will change, a pattern often learned in childhood.
From Self-Abandonment to Self-Leadership (00:30:52) The conversation shifts to the concept of self-abandonment, which is at the core of staying in toxic relationships.
How to Stop Abandoning Yourself (00:35:15) Amy offers a simple, practical tip to start noticing self-abandonment: consciously deciding to go pee when you need to.
Making the Unconscious Conscious (00:38:29) Amy quotes Carl Jung, explaining that until we understand our unconscious childhood patterns, they will run our lives and be mistaken for fate.
The Healing Journey is Not Quick (00:42:21) Amy emphasizes that healing from deep-seated trauma is a long, ongoing process with no definitive end, but it does get better.
Losing People During Healing (00:44:28) They discuss the painful but necessary process of losing friends and family who cannot accept the new, healed version of you.
Why Healing Can Feel Worse Than Trauma (00:49:49) Amy explains that healing is painful because you are consciously feeling the grief your brain previously dissociated from to protect you.
Writing the Book (00:52:13) Amy shares her experience of writing her book, which involved an intense period of memories and emotions pouring out.
The Decision to Leave (00:54:43) Amy recounts how she left her first marriage by having an affair, an unconscious act to escape a suffocating situation.
Finding Amy Online (00:58:40) The host asks Amy where listeners can find her online, and she shares her Instagram handle and book title.
 
Powerful Quotes from the Episode
Amy, "When you are raised in chaos and abuse, red flags don't look red. They just look like your average Tuesday."
Amy, "It was for me to learn how to come back to myself and say, "I can't be here anymore. I don't know how to be mistreated anymore.""
Amy, "Healing was harder than the trauma."
Amy, "This is me becoming my authentic self, because for 47 years, I had no idea who I was."
Amy, "I was abandoning myself. I was talking to my clients about it, and I didn't even fully understand what that meant."
 
RESOURCES:
FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura
MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store
JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517
FOLLOW AMY:
WEBSITE: Amywatkinsstudio.com
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/gods.favorite.problem/
BOOK LINK: https://www.amywatkinsstudio.com/book
 
"When you stop abandoning yourself, you begin to reclaim your voice, your identity, and your life."
 
Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com
Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura interviews Jubilee, a content creator and host of the podcasts Healed-ish and The Overshare Hour, where she openly discusses religious trauma, purity culture, deconstruction, and healing from abuse. Jubilee shares her powerful story of joining Bethel, a high-control religious organization, and marrying an abusive man after a public prophecy declared they were destined to be together.
She recounts the manipulation, isolation, and physical abuse she endured before finally leaving the marriage and filing for divorce over what became known as the "Disney burger" incident. Today, Jubilee uses her voice and platform to help others navigate religious trauma, reclaim their identity, and find freedom through honest conversations about healing and deconstruction.
 
Key Topics & Timestamps
Podcast Introduction (00:00:36) The host, Laura, introduces the podcast's mission to share women's stories of healing from trauma and abuse.
Guest Introduction (00:01:34 Laura introduces her guest, Jubilee, a content creator who shares her story of leaving a cult and an abusive marriage.
The Isolation of Deconstruction (00:03:13) Jubilee discusses the loneliness and loss of community that comes with questioning and leaving high-control religious systems.
Why Jubilee Started Sharing Her Story (00:05:55) Jubilee explains how she began sharing her story online to raise awareness about the cult, Bethel, and her experiences.
Joining the Cult, Bethel (00:07:11) Jubilee recounts being drawn to Bethel after a powerful experience at a conference where she believed she was healed.
The Bethel Experience (00:12:33) Jubilee describes the pressure to conform to specific behaviors, like manifesting, to fit into the Bethel culture.
Interning at a Smaller Ministry (00:15:04) Jubilee moves to a smaller, more eccentric ministry in Pennsylvania for an internship, where she meets her future husband.
Meeting Her Abusive Ex-Husband (00:18:02) Jubilee describes how her ex-husband appeared kind and generous, love-bombing her and grooming her for a relationship.
The Marriage Prophecy (00:21:35) A well-known prophet publicly declares that God intends for Jubilee and her then-boyfriend to marry, solidifying her decision.
Ignoring Red Flags (00:28:05) Jubilee shares the bizarre and delusional beliefs her ex-husband held, which she overlooked due to the prophecy.
The Harm of False Prophecies (00:34:16) The host and Jubilee discuss how prophetic words can trap people in abusive situations by making them feel divinely sanctioned.
The Disney Burger Incident (00:36:36) Jubilee details the fight that started when she gave her cousin a bite of her burger at Disney World.
The Final Assault (00:46:47) The argument over the burger escalates, leading to her husband strangling her for the second time in their marriage.
Calling the Domestic Violence Hotline (00:48:41) After the assault, Jubilee calls a hotline, which helps her recognize the pattern of abuse in her marriage.
Leaving and Filing for Divorce (00:53:49) Jubilee strategically leaves her husband, returns home, and files for divorce, which is finalized quickly due to the pandemic.
Jubilee's Current Projects (00:57:12) Jubilee talks about her two podcasts, "Heal Dish" and "The Overshare Hour," and her plans to write a memoir.
 
Powerful Quotes from the Episode
Jubilee, "I called the domestic violence hotline because I really didn't feel like I could talk to anybody in my life about it."
Jubilee, "I was so primed to believe that that is how love works. It's what I wanted for myself. I wanted to feel chosen and seen."
Jubilee, "I would not have married him if it was not for this prophetic word."
Jubilee, "So often in this marriage, I had apologized. I had gotten so used to, 'I know how to fix this. I know how to make it go away,' and the way to make it go away is to say that everything was my fault."
Jubilee, "She said, 'I believe that God says that you're allowed to get divorced.' And that was exactly what I needed to hear."
 
RESOURCES:
FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura
MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store
JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517
FOLLOW JUBILEE:
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/jubileedawns/
TIK TOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@jubileedawns
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@jubileedawns
 
"Freedom begins the moment you trust your voice over fear."
 
Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com
Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura speaks with Melissa Duge Spiers, an award-winning essayist, screenwriter, and advocate for survivors of religious and narcissistic abuse. Through her writing, memoir Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows, and her online platforms, The Glory Whole, Melissa shares her personal journey of healing while helping others recognize and recover from religious trauma. Her work has been featured in The Huffington Post, and she is also a contributor to Take the Fruit: An Anthology of Religious Trauma.
Melissa opens up about growing up in the cult-like Seventh-day Adventist Church, where teachings centered on submission and self-abandonment left her vulnerable to abusive relationships. She reflects on how religious programming shaped her decade-long narcissistic marriage and a subsequent toxic relationship before discussing the healing she found through therapy, supportive online communities, and writing her memoir. Together, Laura and Melissa emphasize that leaving abuse is only the beginning, and that lasting healing comes through ongoing self-discovery, reclaiming your voice, and learning to trust yourself again.
 
Key Topics & Timestamps
Guest Introduction (00:01:28) Laura introduces the guest, Melissa, an award-winning writer and advocate for survivors of religious and narcissistic abuse.
The Biggest Church No One Knows (00:02:53) Melissa discusses the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a fundamentalist Christian organization she describes as cult-like and surprisingly large.
Leaving the Church vs. Healing (00:05:36) Melissa explains that leaving the church at 18 was not the same as healing from its programming.
Repeating Religious Patterns (00:07:01) Melissa describes how the church's teachings on submission and obedience led her into abusive relationships in her secular life.
Suppressing Emotions (00:09:57) Melissa and Laura discuss how their high-control religious upbringings taught them to suppress "bad" feelings like anger.
The "Fake" Persona (00:13:35) Melissa recalls being called "fake" because she was out of touch with her feelings, a result of childhood self-abandonment.
Learning About Boundaries (00:15:56) The conversation covers the difficulty of learning and practicing boundaries after decades of people-pleasing and being called "difficult."
Documenting Survivor Stories (00:17:20) Melissa explains how she began documenting survivor stories of abuse within the church, which eventually aided a lawsuit.
The Healing Power of Sharing (00:19:05) Melissa and Laura discuss the validating and healing experience of holding space for other survivors and sharing their stories.
Discovering Her Father's Abuse (00:22:23) Melissa shares the story of learning her pastor father was an abuser and how she connected with one of his victims.
A Dangerous Partnership (00:25:49) Melissa recounts her decade-long, controlling marriage to a man with Cluster B personality disorders, which felt familiar after her upbringing.
Discovering Narcissistic Abuse (00:28:18) Melissa explains how she learned about narcissistic abuse online during Covid, finally putting a name to her partner's behavior.
Coercive Control Tactics (00:34:10) The discussion turns to specific manipulative tactics like feigning panic attacks and using sleep deprivation to maintain control.
The Sleep Talking Manipulation (00:36:10) Melissa describes how her ex-partner would say cruel things in his sleep and then deny responsibility when confronted.
Deprogramming and Escaping (00:43:09) Melissa details how therapy and online communities helped her deconstruct her trauma and finally leave her abusive partner.
Life After Abuse (00:48:16) Melissa and Laura talk about the glorious process of getting to know themselves and finding freedom after leaving abusive relationships.
About the Book: "Holy Disobedience" (00:50:31) Melissa describes her memoir, which covers leaving her religion, realizing its programming led to abuse, and her healing journey.
Leaving Doesn't Equal Healing (00:53:28) Melissa emphasizes that leaving an abusive situation is just the first step; conscious, ongoing work is required for true healing.
 
Powerful Quotes from the Episode
Melissa, "I had left at 18. As soon as I was an adult, I was out of there, and I just thought naively that leaving equaled healing."
Melissa, "High-control religions teach you to not trust your gut. Your doubts are from the devil."
Melissa, "It is just a jaw-dropping, stomach-dropping moment when you realize, 'Oh my God, there's a name for this.'"
Melissa, "My therapist was like, 'This is your chance. You have been given a gift by being kicked out. Do not take him with you.' And I was just like, 'Oh, I can do that.'"
Melissa, "Leaving does not equal healing. That's leaving a religion, a relationship, or a toxic family. It doesn't matter."
 
RESOURCES:
COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura
YOU'RE NOT CRAZY ebook: GET IT HERE
MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: SHOP HERE
JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517
FOLLOW MELISSA:
SUBSTACK: https://substack.com/@melissadugespiers
BOOK: https://www.lakedrivebooks.com/books/holy-disobedience/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/the.glory.whole/
TIK TOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@theglorywhole
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@theglorywhole3831
 
"Leaving is the first step. Healing begins when you learn to trust yourself again."
 
Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com
Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura speaks with Dr. Debi Silber, the world's leading expert on betrayal recovery, founder and CEO of the Post Betrayal Transformation (PBT) Institute, and a PhD researcher whose work has transformed how we understand the impact of broken trust. Drawing on research involving more than 100,000 people across 50+ countries, Dr. Debi has identified groundbreaking discoveries about betrayal recovery that have helped individuals, coaches, leaders, and organizations move from pain to transformation. A two-time TEDx speaker, bestselling author, award-winning speaker, and host of the From Betrayal to Breakthrough podcast, she has dedicated her career to helping people rebuild their lives after betrayal.
Together, Laura and Dr. Debi explore the profound emotional, physical, and psychological effects of betrayal, discussing how broken trust can shatter identity, relationships, and overall well-being. Dr. Debi shares her own deeply personal journey, which inspired her PhD research and the creation of the PBT Institute, and explains the five stages of betrayal recovery. Throughout the conversation, she offers practical insights, hope, and encouragement, reminding listeners that while betrayal can change you, healing is possible through willingness, intentional rebuilding, and transformation.
 
Key Topics & Timestamps
Podcast Introduction (00:00:34) Host Laura introduces the podcast, its purpose for women healing from narcissistic relationships, and the importance of sharing stories.
Introducing Doctor Debi Silber (00:01:23) Laura introduces guest Doctor Debi Silber, detailing her extensive credentials and expertise in betrayal recovery and post-betrayal transformation.
How Doctor Debi Started Her Work (00:03:46) Doctor Debi shares her personal story of betrayal by family and her husband, which led her to pursue a PhD.
The Decision to Share Her Story (00:06:22) Doctor Debi discusses the terror and vulnerability of sharing her personal betrayal story publicly, starting with her TEDx talks.
Defining Betrayal (00:09:44) Betrayal is defined as breaking a spoken or unspoken rule and is unique from other traumas because it requires rebuilding yourself.
Why We Don't See Betrayal Coming (00:14:30) Doctor Debi explains that betrayal is deceptive by design and discusses how people intentionally or unintentionally turn down their intuition.
Resilience vs. Transformation (00:18:54) Using a house analogy, Doctor Debi explains the difference between resilience (restoring) and transformation (rebuilding something entirely new) after trauma.
Rebuilding Yourself with Intention (00:21:18) The opportunity after betrayal is to intentionally rebuild a new version of yourself, even changing small, self-critical habits.
The Window of Willingness (00:22:58) A four-level framework to determine if it's possible to rebuild a relationship with the person who betrayed you.
Rebuilding Trust in Yourself (00:28:46) Betrayal shatters our ability to trust our own judgment, so rebuilding self-trust is a crucial part of the healing process.
 
Powerful Quotes from the Episode
Dr Debi, "I have no idea if I can heal from this, but if I can, I'm taking everybody with me."
Laura, "I'm speaking for that woman who was me, who was dying. If she didn't hear that there was hope on the other side, she was going to die because I literally wanted to die."
Dr Debi "You don't even want to get back to who you were, because that version of you may have been tolerating what you no longer are willing to tolerate."
Dr Debi, "I was so critical. I would never say to anybody else what I would say to myself."
Dr Debi, "Even though it happened to you, it's not about you. Stop blaming and shaming yourself."
 
RESOURCES:
FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura
MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store
JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517
FOLLOW DR DEBI:
WEBSITE: https://thepbtinstitute.com
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/debisilber/
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/debisilber
 
"Betrayal may break your trust, but it doesn't have to define your future."
 
Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com
Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura speaks with licensed psychotherapist, creative arts therapist, and Brave Hearts Speak podcast host Lucia Severtson, founder of The Brave Women's Community Center, a trauma-informed, arts-based nonprofit dedicated to helping women and girls heal from abuse, reconnect with their inner voice, and reclaim their power. Drawing on her background in psychotherapy, theatre, dance/movement therapy, and the creative arts, Lucia shares her deeply personal journey through OCD, a traumatic health scare linked to birth control, and the lasting impact of narcissistic abuse. She opens up about how severe insomnia and suicidal thoughts led her to seek specialized OCD therapy, ultimately transforming her life.
Inspired by her own healing journey, Lucia created The Brave Women's Community Center to provide therapeutic improv, storytelling circles, empowerment workshops, and other trauma-informed programs that help women move beyond survival and rediscover joy, creativity, and purpose. Throughout the conversation, she and Laura explore the power of community, creative expression, and self-compassion in the healing process, reminding listeners that bravery isn't about being fearless—it's about showing up, reclaiming your voice, and embracing a life filled with hope and authenticity.
 
Key Topics & Timestamps
Guest Introduction (00:01:30) Laura introduces Lucia Sivertsen, a psychotherapist and founder of the Brave Women's Community Center, specializing in arts-based therapy.
Lucia's Journey into Therapy (00:02:35) Lucia explains her work is rooted in her personal history, including her family of origin and a 2019 OCD episode.
Health Scare and OCD Onset (00:03:12) Lucia details a severe health scare from birth control, leading to weight loss, insomnia, and an intense OCD episode.
Suicidal Thoughts and Seeking Help (00:05:41) Lucia describes how severe sleep deprivation led to suicidal thoughts and the realization that her mind, not her body, was sick.
Finding the Right Therapist (00:07:25) Lucia shares the relief of finding a therapist specializing in OCD and the sadness of accepting her brain disorder diagnosis.
Women's Healthcare and Medical Abuse (00:08:56) The conversation shifts to the poor treatment of women in healthcare, particularly regarding perimenopause, framing it as a form of abuse.
A Painful Doctor's Visit (00:14:21) Lucia recounts a shaming, invalidating experience with a nurse practitioner who dismissed her suffering and called her crazy.
Healing Through Exposure Therapy (00:16:55) Lucia explains how Exposure and Response Prevention therapy saved her life and taught her the true meaning of being brave.
Narcissistic Abuse and Self-Worth (00:18:18) Lucia realized her family history of narcissistic abuse caused deep-seated negative beliefs about herself, feeling like she was "nothing."
Creating the Brave Women's Community Center (00:22:48) Lucia was inspired to create a safe, non-competitive space for women to heal and find their own embodiment of bravery.
The Power of Creative Arts in Healing (00:25:10) Laura and Lucia discuss how trying new creative activities helps rebuild neural pathways and heal the brain after trauma.
Building a Safe Community (00:30:06 Lucia describes creating a safe, non-judgmental environment where women can overcome fear and reclaim their creativity without pressure to perform.
Storytelling Circles and Therapeutic Improv (00:35:12) Lucia explains her podcast's origin and her therapeutic improv workshops, which use play and writing to facilitate storytelling and healing.
The Courage to Heal (00:39:13) The discussion covers how abuse erodes courage and how small, brave acts, like decorating a home, are vital steps forward.
Finding Lucia and Her Work (00:43:56) Lucia shares where listeners can find her online, including her website, social media channels, and upcoming creative writing courses.
A Year-Long Theater Program for Survivors (00:45:32) Lucia announces a grant-funded, year-long theater program in Denver for women survivors to create and perform their own show.
 
Powerful Quotes from the Episode
Lucia, "I think something clicked for me where I started to realize, 'I don't think my body is sick. I think my mind is sick.'"
Lucia, "What I was looking for all my life that I didn't realize I wanted was to be brave."
Lucia, "I don't have to make my drive in life being safe."
Lucia, "I just wanted to be a fuller human being, and I wanted to help other women do that because I knew I wasn't the only one."
Lucia, "I wanted to find them, and I wanted to be able to provide them with an actual way to embody bravery."
 
RESOURCES:
FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/
COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura
MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store
JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517
 
FOLLOW LUCIA:
WEBSITE: www.bravewomenscommunity.com
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/bravewomenscommunity/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/bravewomenscommunity
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucia-divieste-severtson-5055351b6/
LISTEN TO BRAVE HEARTS SPEAK PODCAST: https://open.spotify.com/show/27zFc8gBQICTTK33wn3NUh?si=e626fbc4fa86438a
 
"True bravery isn't fearlessness; it's showing up for yourself, one step at a time."
 
Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com
Contact us for expert podcast production and support.