The Contemplative Pastor

What would it look like to build rhythms that respond to lives that are always changing?
In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Tara Beth Leach for a conversation about shepherding through the ups and downs of real life—our own and the lives of the people in our care. Tara Beth recalls how navigating the emotional requirements of pastoral ministry while caring for her aging parents created a desperate need for new rhythms in her life, and specifically her mornings. Drawing from her lived experience as a mother and caregiver, Tara Beth shares how she’s approaching pastoral ministry as a way of nurturing people toward maturity in every season. She and Bryan close by exploring what it means to wait on God actively rather than passively and why the same rhythms that steady us are often the very ones we end up offering to those in our care.
Tara Beth Leach is a pastor and author who wants to see the church formed into Christ’s most faithful witness. She currently serves Good Shepherd Church in Naperville, IL. She’s the mother to two sons and married to Jeff.
To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.
John Mark’s newest book, Into the Quiet, is now available for preorder at intothequietexperience.com/preorder. You can join John Mark in person for the Into the Quiet Experience, coming to a city near you between now and November 12. Purchase your ticket at intothequietexperience.com.
This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/generous.

What might happen if we decided to stay—in a place, in a community, in a calling?
In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Jess Gracewski for a conversation about what we might gain—and risk—by choosing to commit to a community and a place. Jess describes how she’s building spaces of belonging in one of the most transient cities on earth and choosing to steward people with intention for as long or short a time as they’re in her care. Drawing from her own story, she shares why calling is the work of a community and what it means to discern the voice of God when it's coming from the people around us. Throughout the conversation, Bryan and Jess explore what it means to pastor people to feel known, rather than counted.
Jess Gracewski is a spiritual director and Associate Pastor at Reality San Francisco, where she oversees ministries focused on community and spiritual formation, helping others find their place in God's story.
To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.
This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.

What happens when we make peace with the reality that there are no ideal conditions in which to pastor?
In this episode, join Jay Kim and Glenn Packiam for a conversation on finding “your little patch of the world” to be the pastor God has called you to be. Glenn traces the through line of his “misfit” ministry career and the crisis that led him into Eugene Peterson's mentorship, where he first heard the words he would return to again and again : "there are no ideal conditions in which to live out this vocation." He shares the ebb and flow of spiritual practices that sustain his hidden life with God, the radical approach he took entering a new church, and the "constellation of relationships" he believes every pastor needs to flourish. He and Jay unpack the essential difference between weariness and woundedness—in ourselves and in the people we pastor.
Glenn Packiam is the Lead Pastor of Rockharbor Church in Costa Mesa, California. Glenn is the author of several books, including The Resilient Pastor, Blessed Broken Given, and a recent title, What’s a Christian, Anyway? Glenn and his wife Holly live in Orange County, California, with their four children.
To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.
This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.
Mentioned in this conversation:
Job 4:5 (MSG)
The Contemplative Pastor: Returning to the Art of Spiritual Direction by Eugene Peterson
Under the Unpredictable Plant: An Exploration in Vocational Holiness by Eugene Peterson
Working the Angles: The Shape of Pastoral Integrity by Eugene Peterson
Connecting: The Mentoring Relationships You Need to Succeed in Life by Paul Stanley and Robert Clinton

What if our weariness as pastors isn’t a sign of failure, but rather a sign that we’re measuring success by the wrong metric?
In this episode, Bryan Rouanzoin and Bill Dogterom seek to reconcile Jesus’ promise of an “easy yoke” with the pervasive weariness so many pastors experience today. Bill shares how his own weariness sparked a life-changing shift from a church-growth mindset to a formation mindset. He and Bryan discuss the three spiritual practices that help “keep the yoke easy,” why he intentionally distinguishes his personal spirituality from his professional spirituality, and how he recognizes which parts of his soul need care.
Bill Dogterom is professor emeritus in the School of Theology & Ministry at Vanguard University. He has served in pastoral ministry for more than 25 years, including as senior pastor of Foothill Christian Center in California. He has also been involved in pastoral ministry in Canada and the United States.
To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.
This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.
Mentioned in this conversation:
Sabbath As Resistance: Saying No to the Culture of Now by Walter Brueggemann
The Sabbath by Abraham Joshua Heschel
Working the Angles: The Shape of Pastoral Integrity by Eugene H. Peterson
The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence
Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home by Richard Foster
Prayer by Hans Urs von Balthasar
The Interior Castle by Teresa of Avila
Ruth Burrows
Evenlyn Underhill

What if the most vital work of spiritual formation isn’t first in your church, but in the hidden story you’re already living with God? 
In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Todd Pickett for a conversation on what it means to truly be a contemplative, and the fruit of a life lived this way. Drawing from Todd’s journey through the university and into the local church, they explore how literature and poetry became his training ground for spiritual formation. Along the way, they discuss the essential questions underneath spiritual formation, every pastor’s temptation to make a name for themselves, and the invitation to let God burn away what Todd calls “our fantasy selves” so we can live as our real selves before God, for the sake of those we shepherd.
The Rev. Dr. Todd Pickett (Ph.D.) is pastor of Holy Trinity Anglican Church in Costa Mesa, CA. Prior to his leadership in the pastorate, Dr. Pickett served for 27 years as a professor, Dean of Spiritual Development and campus pastor at Biola University.
To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.
This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.