The Divorce and Beyond® Podcast with Susan Guthrie, Esq.

Susan Guthrie has been a divorce attorney and mediator for 35 years and she thinks that in almost all cases, your first hire in divorce should be a coach. This episode explains why.

How do you find the right divorce coach for you? The popularity of divorce coaching has grown enormously, and with so many kinds of coaches out there, it can be hard to know what a divorce coach actually does or how to find the right one. People hear the word coach and think of life coaches, athletic coaches, business coaches, and divorce coaching gets lumped in with all of them. This episode clears that up and answers the questions many people need early in the divorce process.

Susan is joined by Tracy Callahan and Debra Doak, the founders of The Divorce Coaches Academy, who train and support divorce coaches and are themselves practicing coaches, mediators, and Susan's colleagues in the dispute resolution field. They explain what a divorce coach really is, a flexible, goal-oriented process recognized by the American Bar Association as a form of alternative dispute resolution, designed to support and guide people through both the business side and the emotional management of divorce.

Together they walk through how to find a coach who fits, what questions to ask on a complimentary discovery call, why training and certification matter in a field with no national standards, and how the right coach can save a client both time and money. Susan makes the case she has made before, that a divorce coach is an essential member of your team and often the best place to start, because the choice can shape who you hire next.

Episode 2 of 8 in the Divorce & Beyond Summer Essentials Series This summer, Divorce & Beyond brings back 8 the episodes listeners reach for most, the conversations with the clearest, most practical guidance for anyone thinking about, going through, or rebuilding after divorce. New Essentials air every other Monday all summer. Follow the show so you never miss one. The series starts here.

What You'll Learn

What a divorce coach actually is, and why the American Bar Association recognizes divorce coaching as a form of alternative dispute resolution

Why finding a coach before an attorney can change who you hire and how your whole divorce unfolds

How to tell if a coach is the right fit, from credentials and training to the complimentary discovery call

What to ask about a coach's process, programs, pricing, and how they work before you commit

Why training and certification matter in a field with no national standards, and what it means to coach from your scar and not from your wound

About Our Guests: Tracy Callahan and Debra Doak

Debra and Tracy are both committed to the profession of divorce coaching and the process of alternative dispute resolution. They are both CDC Certified Divorce Coaches®, authors, educators, and founding members of Divorce Coaches Academy, an online education platform that provides continuing education for practicing, professional divorce coaches.

Tracy is a Florida Supreme Court Certified Mediator, serves as the Manager of the Mentor and Peer Coaching Programs for the CDC Certified Divorce Coach® certifying body, and has built her practice and reputation as an alternative dispute resolution specialist and conflict expert over the past 13 years.  Get Tracy's book: Divorce: Taking the High Road: Simple Strategies for Creating a Healthy Divorce, Tracy Callahan contributor and reach out to her at www.mediatingmatters.com

Debra is also a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst®, Ohio Supreme Court trained Family Court Mediator, and Betrayal Trauma Specialist.  Get Debra's book: High Conflict Divorce for Women and reach out to her at www.debradoak.com

For More Information on Tracy, Debra and The Divorce Coaches Academy:

Website:  https://www.divorcecoachesacademy.com/

Email: dca@divorcecoachesacademy

Social Media Handles 

IG: @divorcecoachesacademy
FB: @divorcecoachesacademy
LI: divorce-coaches-academy
Twitter: @AcademyDivorce

If This Episode Helped You Follow Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, a five-star review makes a real difference in helping the show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

About the Host: Susan Guthrie, Esq. Susan Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping people navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Town & Country, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 1.3 million downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together leading legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at divorceandbeyondpod.com/about.

 

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

What do I do first when I find out I'm getting divorced?

It is the number one question people ask the moment divorce becomes real, whether they reached the decision themselves or were just told it is coming. In one of her most-requested solo episodes, Susan Guthrie introduces the concept of Divorce Triage, a clear-headed way to assess your situation and decide who to reach out to first based on the urgency and the needs of your specific case.

Borrowing from the emergency room, Susan explains that when a crisis hits, whether emotional, legal, or financial, you do not have to solve the whole thing at once. You just have to take the right first step. Drawing on more than three decades as a family law attorney and mediator, she walks through the core members of a divorce support team, the attorney, the mediator, the divorce coach, the therapist, and the certified divorce financial analyst, and uses real scenarios to show who your first call should be. From the affair discovery, to the financial betrayal, to the blindsided stay-at-home parent, to the longtime thinker who is finally ready to act, each situation calls for a different first move.

Divorce is not one size fits all, and the first decision you make can shape everything that follows. This episode helps you think clearly and choose carefully, so you move forward with strength and strategy instead of panic.

Episode 1 of 8 in the Divorce & Beyond Summer Essentials Series This summer, Divorce & Beyond brings back 8 the episodes listeners reach for most, the conversations with the clearest, most practical guidance for anyone thinking about, going through, or rebuilding after divorce. New Essentials air every other Monday all summer. Follow the show so you never miss one. The series starts here.

What You'll Learn

Why your first call may not be an attorney, and how to triage who you reach out to based on your circumstances

Who belongs on your divorce support team, the attorney, mediator, divorce coach, therapist, and CDFA, and when to bring each one in

How to take the right first step when betrayal, fear, or financial shock has your emotions all over the place

Why too many voices create confusion, and how to avoid the trap of asking everyone for advice

Susan's golden nugget: why divorce is not a DIY project, and why the first decision you make shapes everything that comes next

If This Episode Helped You Follow Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, a five-star review makes a real difference in helping the show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

About the Host: Susan Guthrie, Esq. Susan Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping people navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Town & Country, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 1.3 million downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together leading legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at divorceandbeyondpod.com/about.

 

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

Kelly Myers has been on Divorce and Beyond twice before. Once to talk about Divorce Day One. Once to help listeners avoid the divorce hangover that follows too many people into their new life. This time, she comes back to share something she has never spoken about publicly: what the loss of her son Jack taught her about years of high-conflict co-parenting, and her hope that every parent still in the middle of it will find a way through differently.

In June of 2024, Kelly lost her son Jack at the age of 23. In the year that followed, she found herself looking back at the years of high-conflict co-parenting that had defined her children's childhoods, and asking questions she could not stop asking.

What role did the conflict play?

What did her children carry because of it?

What would she have done differently if she had known what she knows now?

Kelly reached out and asked to have this conversation here, because she believes that what she learned at great cost is something other parents can still choose to learn a different way.

This is one of the most generous conversations this show has ever had. Susan Guthrie and Kelly explore the real cost of co-parenting conflict on children, what it actually looks like to drop the rope after years of high-conflict engagement, how the ecosystem around a divorce often makes things worse, and what repair looks like when you still have years ahead to offer it.

Covered in this episode:

Why dropping the rope has to start with you, and why waiting for your co-parent to change first means waiting forever

How the divorce ecosystem, including attorneys, family, and friends, can fan the flames of conflict without anyone asking what you actually want to protect

What high-conflict co-parenting looks like through the eyes of the children living inside it, and why each child carries it differently

How the BIFF communication method helped shift a years-long dynamic, and what that looked like in practice

Why it is never too late to begin repair, and what choosing differently right now can mean for the moments still ahead

Referenced Episodes from the Archive:

Day One with a Divorce Coach: First Steps with Kelly Myers

Avoiding the Divorce Hangover From the Start with Kelly Myers

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This week's guest: Kelly Myers

Kelly understands that divorce is one of life's most challenging transitions. She's a divorce and co-parenting coach, mediator, and communication specialist passionate about supporting individuals and families as they move through the complexities of divorce and co-parenting. She partners with clients to understand the divorce process, manage emotional and financial stress, and make strategic decisions throughout their divorce. Her work helps clients stay focused on what matters most while making choices that align with their long-term goals.

Kelly specializes in supporting parents as they discover how to become strong co-parenting partners, even when the romantic relationship has ended. She helps parents see their relationship through a new lens-as partners in raising their children-guiding them to create respectful communication patterns and develop comprehensive, child-centered parenting plans that go far beyond custody schedules. Her approach centers on what children need emotionally and developmentally during this transition, while helping parents maintain a healthy family dynamic across two homes.

In addition to her direct work with clients, Kelly loves mentoring other professionals. She serves as a co-trainer for the Co-Parenting Specialist® Training Program and provides professional development to divorce professionals seeking to use a more client-centered approach. Kelly's deepest commitment is to help families-both the ones she works with directly and those served by the professionals she trains-have less conflict, more cooperation, and real hope for their futures.

Website: http://www.firststepsdivorce.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kellymyerscoach

Instagram: http://instagram.comfirststeps_divorce

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If This Episode Helped You

Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, leaving a five-star review makes a real difference in helping this show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

______________________________________________________________________

About Our Host: Susan E. Guthrie, Esq.

Susan E. Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with millions of downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together top legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/about

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

The question comes up in almost every divorce: what happens to the house? It is usually one of the biggest assets of the marriage, one of the biggest debts, and one of the most emotionally loaded decisions people face. Wanting to keep the house and actually being able to keep the house are two very different things.

This week Susan is bringing back one of the most downloaded archived conversations from the Divorce and Beyond library, a conversation with Tami Wollensak, licensed mortgage loan originator and Certified Divorce Lending Professional, walking through the real financial realities of keeping the marital home. 

Together, Susan and Tami unpack what it actually takes to keep the house in a divorce, from refinancing challenges and equity buyouts to qualifying for a mortgage on a single income, the hidden costs of homeownership, and why making this decision without proper financial planning can create serious problems long after the ink is dry.

Covered in this episode:

Why wanting to keep the house and being able to keep the house are two very different things, and what a Certified Divorce Lending Professional can do to help close that gap

How equity is calculated, why the purchase price is not the value, and what it means to buy out your spouse's share as part of the refinance

Why maintenance, alimony, and child support do not automatically count as qualifying income and what lenders actually need to see

How a missed mortgage payment can drop credit scores by hundreds of points and why "it was their responsibility" has never once removed a negative mark from a credit report

Why getting a home inspection before finalizing your divorce agreement is one of the most overlooked and important steps you can take

KEEPING THE HOUSE: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE YOU SIGN

Almost everyone walks into divorce negotiations with the same instinct: I want to keep the house. It is understandable. It is the family home. It is where the children have put their heads on pillows for years. But signing a settlement agreement without knowing whether you can actually execute it is not a successful negotiation. Some of the most important things to understand before you commit, are discussed in this episode:

Know the fair market value of your home today, not the purchase price, and understand what the actual equity is and how it will be divided

Understand that keeping the house means refinancing into your name alone, which means qualifying on your income alone, and your payment will be based on current market rates, not what you are paying today

Work with a divorce mortgage professional early in the process, before the settlement agreement is signed, so you can generate real options rather than make decisions based on guesses

Get a home inspection before finalizing the agreement, just as you would when buying a new home, so you know exactly what you are signing up for

If your spouse agrees to stay on the mortgage temporarily, set up protections: require advance notice if a payment may be missed, and request a duplicate mortgage statement so you can monitor it yourself

The goal is not to win the house. The goal is to make the decision that sets you up for the strongest future. Get the answers, both good and bad, and then decide.

Referenced Episodes from the Archive:

How to Get Your Act Together So that You Can Tackle Your Divorce with Alex Beattie of Divide & Thrive

The Solution for Tackling the Divorce Detour with Storey Jones, Creator of dtour.life

It's All About the House: What You Need to Think About Before You Decide to Keep It with Tami Wollensak

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This Week's Sponsors: 

Hello Divorce - Hello Divorce is a modern platform designed to support people before, during, and beyond divorce, providing legal information, tools, and access to professionals who help individuals navigate the process more thoughtfully.

Resources created specifically for Divorce & Beyond listeners are available at HelloDivorce.com/Susan.

Yumiyu - YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic.

Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Be sure to use Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off!

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This week's guest: Tami Wollensak

Tami Wollensak is a Divorce Mortgage Specialist and VP Loan Consultant with New American Funding (NMLS #1963450), bringing over 30 years of experience in the mortgage industry. She specializes in helping individuals navigate one of the most overlooked and misunderstood aspects of divorce: what happens to the marital home.

After going through her own divorce, Tami saw firsthand how financial decisions made during this time can have long lasting consequences. Today, she works closely with individuals, attorneys, and mediators to bridge the gap between divorce agreements and mortgage lending, ensuring that what is decided on paper can actually be executed in real life.

Tami’s approach is calm, strategic, and solution focused. She helps her clients understand their options clearly so they can move forward with confidence, whether that means keeping the home, selling it, or buying again in the future.

She is the founder of Empowered Uncoupling, a platform dedicated to helping people transition from endings into new beginnings with clarity, confidence, and financial empowerment. For those navigating this decision now, Tami offers a simple starting point with her guide, Can I Keep the House?, along with a complimentary 15 minute consultation to help bring clarity to the next steps.

Website https://www.empowereduncoupling.com

Book a 15-Minute Consultation https://calendly.com/tamiwollensak/15min

Ebook: Can I Keep the House? https://iwantthehouse.com

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@empowereduncoupling

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tamiwollensak

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamiwollensak

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If This Episode Helped You

Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, leaving a five-star review makes a real difference in helping this show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

______________________________________________________________________

About Our Host: Susan E. Guthrie, Esq.

Susan E. Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with millions of downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together top legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/about

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

Do you know what almost no one tells you when you are creating a parenting plan? Some of the biggest co-parenting battles after divorce will not be over the things you think. It may not be the major custody decision or where the children will primarily live. It may be the late pickup, the unanswered text, the forgotten backpack, or the soccer registration deadline no one thought to clarify.

That is why Susan Guthrie is joined by Gabrielle Hartley, attorney, mediator, parenting conflict expert, TEDx speaker, bestselling author of Better Apart: The Radically Positive Way to Separate, and creator of Mediator Gabby. Gabrielle has spent decades helping families navigate separation with greater clarity, less conflict, and better outcomes for children. Together, they get practical about why so many parenting plans break down after the divorce is finalized and what it actually takes to build one that holds up in real life.

This conversation is for anyone creating a parenting plan, already co-parenting, or supporting someone who is. Because choosing what feels easier right now has a way of creating a much more difficult problem to solve later.

Covered in this episode:

Why most co-parenting conflict has nothing to do with bad parenting

What makes a parenting plan fall apart once real life takes over

How the "easier now, harder later" trap quietly sets families up for more conflict

Why clarity matters more than detail when building a durable parenting plan

How Mediator Gabby helps parents arrive prepared, stay focused, and reach better agreements

WHAT IF AN AI MEDIATOR COULD HELP YOU BUILD A PARENTING PLAN BEFORE YOU EVER WALK INTO A ROOM? 

There are approximately 29-million children living in single-parent families in the United States, and the vast majority of their parents never have access to a lawyer, a mediator, or any professional guidance at all. Mediator Gabby, Gabrielle's AI-supported parenting plan tool was built with those families in mind. 

Using this custom AI tool, each parent completes a guided onboarding on their own before any joint conversation begins, working through the full landscape of a parenting plan so that by the time they sit down together, they already know where they agree, where they do not, and what needs to be worked through.

Here is what that preparation can do for families:

Save three to five hours of introductory conversation before mediation even begins

Help parents arrive focused and prepared rather than reactive and overwhelmed

Surface the details most people do not think to address until they become conflict points

Lower the emotional temperature in the room so real resolution can happen faster

Keep the process moving forward instead of stalling on issues that feel impossible in the moment

A parenting plan is the operating system for your family's next chapter. The clearer and more intentional it is from the start, the less conflict it creates down the road, and the better the experience for your children.

FREE DOWNLOAD: Parenting Plan Reality Check: The Questions Every Co-Parent Needs to Answer Before Finalizing a Parenting Plan + Companion Article  Find the article and free download on the website at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode

Referenced Episodes from the Archive:

The 7 Most-Asked Divorce Questions on ChatGPT, Answered by a Top Family Law Attorney with Susan Guthrie

Discovery Demystified: Why Fact-Finding is the Most Important Step in Your Divorce with Susan Guthrie

Conflict Resolution Made Easy: Managaing the Five Destructive Behaviors We All Have with Gabrielle Hartley

Gabrielle Hartley Has the Secret to Helping Us All Get Along Better and It Starts with Y.E.S.

Is Your Divorce Taking Too Long? BLITZ IT and BE DONE with Gabrielle Hartley

The Best Thing to Happen to Divorce in Ages with Very Special Guest, Gabrielle Hartley

If this episode helped you, please share it and leave a review. It genuinely helps the show reach the people who need it most.

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Meet This Week’s Guest:

Gabrielle Hartley is a New York and Massachusetts divorce attorney, mediator, author, two-time TEDx speaker, and legal tech founder working at the intersection of family dispute resolution and technology.

She is the founder of Better Parenting Plan and creator of Mediator Gabby, a technology-supported platform designed to help parents and family professionals reduce conflict and build clearer, more durable parenting agreements.

Gabrielle is also consulting with the American Arbitration Association to help launch its first-ever family mediation panel. A former court attorney to Hon. Jeffrey Sunshine in the New York Supreme Court, Matrimonial Division, she has spent more than twenty-five years helping families resolve complex divorce and custody matters constructively.

She is the author of Better Apart and The Secret to Getting Along and serves on the ABA Dispute Resolution Council.

Website: BetterParentingPlan.com

Instagram: http://instagram.com/gabriellehartleyesq

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This Week's Sponsors: 

Hello Divorce - Hello Divorce is a modern platform designed to support people before, during, and beyond divorce, providing legal information, tools, and access to professionals who help individuals navigate the process more thoughtfully.

Resources created specifically for Divorce & Beyond listeners are available at HelloDivorce.com/Susan.

Yumiyu - YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic.

Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Be sure to use Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off!

_______________________________________________________________

If This Episode Helped You

Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, leaving a five-star review makes a real difference in helping this show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

______________________________________________________________________

About Our Host: Susan E. Guthrie, Esq.

Susan E. Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with millions of downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together top legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/about

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.