For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Description:
Mary Pipher has spent her whole career noticing the gap between what the culture says is happening to women and what is actually happening to them. She did it in her thirties with Reviving Ophelia, and she did it again decades later with Women Rowing North. In this Sacred Work encore, Jen sits down with the clinical psychologist and author of eleven books to talk about the second half of life and what it actually asks of you. Mary makes the case that women get happier as they age, and she has the research to back it up, along with a story about two locker rooms that lands harder than any statistic. She also talks about thanking her own worn out hands for a lifetime of work, why reasonable expectations are the one thing happy people everywhere share, and the line Jen has not been able to shake since: we all age, but we do not all grow. Only one of those is up to you.
Thought-provoking Quotes:
We all age but we don’t all grow.
If you don’t become better you become bitter. You either grow or you shrink.
You should thank your hands for all the work they have done for you.
We all find what we’re looking for.
I have everything I need to be happy right between my ears.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Women Rowing North: Navigating Life’s Currents and Flourishing As We Age by Mary Pipher
Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls by Mary Pipher
A Life in Light: Meditations on Impermanence by Mary Pipher
The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir
Complete list of Mary Pipher’s books: https://marypipher.com/books
Margaret Mead’s idea of post menopausal zest
Jane Jarvis, American jazz pianist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jarvis
Guest’s Links:
Website - https://marypipher.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/authormarypipher
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker
The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Description:
Dr. Marisa G. Franco is back — and this time, she's turning the lens inward. Marisa is the New York Times bestselling author of Platonic and a psychologist at the University of Maryland, and her brand new book, Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment, might just be the most important thing she's ever written. It is tender, personal, and research-backed in equal measure — and friend, it will find you.
In this conversation, Marisa and Jen dig into the central argument of the book: that trying to become a "secure" person — calm, confident, regulated, healed — is one of the most efficient ways to stay stuck. The goal, Marisa says, is not security. It's being secure-ish. That means making room for the anxious parts and the avoidant parts, the shame and the neediness and the grief, and offering those parts the care they never got instead of running from them one more time.
In this discussion, you’ll also hear:
Why the goal was never to be fully "secure" — and what it means to be secure-ish instead
Why your insecurities are messengers, not enemies — and how to stop whack-a-moleing them into silence
The memories that are keeping you stuck — and the science that proves you can actually change how they live in you
The messages installed in us by the wider world — faith, bodies, marriage, worth — and what it looks like to do this work when those messages came from somewhere we once considered holy
And Marisa shares her own story, the one that cracked her open: a hike, a relationship unraveling, and the moment she finally stopped performing calm long enough to say the true thing out loud.
This is a conversation for anyone who has been trying to be better than they are instead of being who they are. Which is to say — it's for all of us.
Thought-provoking Quotes:
“The struggle of not feeling worthy is that you're stuck in the same sense of reality. You're trapped and you don't know how to get out. People are loving you but you don't feel loved. The beauties of life slide off of you. I just want people to get free of that.” - Dr. Marisa G. Franco
“We have to start with allowing what is, with the truth. So many of us don’t think we can because we have to be something different than we are. But being where you are, that's where the healing happens.” - Dr. Marisa G. Franco
“I'm still learning for my first reaction to no longer be, what am I allowed to feel according to other people? What am I allowed to look like according to other people? And for my first question to be what expresses who I am and how I actually feel, even if that violates all of the rules as to how I should feel or how I should present myself? That's where I need to begin, in the truth.” - Dr. Marisa G. Franco
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment by Dr. Marisa Franco - https://amzn.to/42N2MyE
Platonic: How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make--and Keep--Friends by Dr. Marisa Franco - https://amzn.to/4dph3rm
Friendship MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/friendship-for-the-rest-of-us

Description:
Think about the last real fight you had with someone you love, then think about what you did with it. Most of us swallowed it and called it peace. Priya Parker has spent twenty years walking into rooms where groups are coming apart, churches mid-split, companies that lost their founder, families with one topic nobody will name at the table. She is back on the show with a new book, The Art of Fighting, and her argument is that the peace we keep by avoiding conflict costs us the very thing we say we want most.
Jen and Priya open with a hot takes round on pineapple pizza and whether a hot dog is a sandwich, which turns out to be one of Priya's actual tools: low stakes arguing is practice for the high stakes kind. From there, what unhealthy peace looks like inside a family, a team, or a church. Priya tells the story of her grandfather's funeral, where the minister's highest praise for a fifty year marriage was that the couple never fought. Jen names the four years she let a business partnership die rather than have one hard conversation. They get into how to diagnose the fight you are actually in, why “we’re not a ___” is the sentence to listen for, and what happened when Priya went looking for the best literature on group conflict and kept landing in the Christian tradition.
Conflict is not sin. It is a skill, and every one of us can get better at it.
Part of September's Sacred Work series.
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Thought-provoking Quotes:
Low stakes arguing helps us approach high stakes arguing. – Priya Parker
When the going gets tough, add warmth to heat. – Priya Parker
Human connection is as threatened by unhealthy peace as it is by unhealthy conflict. – Priya Parker
I learned from an early age that there is loss in avoidance. – Priya Parker
I invite you to think about conflict as a skill. And you can get better at it. – Priya Parker
Conflict is not sin. Conflict is actually highly functional. – Priya Parker
Fighting is about power. Avoidance is also about power. – Priya Parker
Whose mess do you want to be in? – Priya Parker
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
The Art of Fighting: The Transformative Power of Conflict by Priya Parker (Riverhead, out 9/8) - https://www.amazon.com/Art-Fighting-Transformative-Power-Conflict/dp/0593420225
The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters by Priya Parker - https://www.amazon.com/Art-Gathering-How-Meet-Matters/dp/1594634920
Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull - https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Expanded-Overcoming-Inspiration/dp/0593594649
If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer by Jack Shitama - https://www.amazon.com/You-Met-Family-Youd-Understand/dp/1732009368