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Our guest this week is Ben Buchanan, who served as President Biden’s senior advisor on AI and helped write the first federal AI policy, including the original export controls on GPUs going to China. He is one of the world’s foremost experts on AI governance, and he had a seat at the table at the historic Geneva Summit in 2024 when the U.S. and China first sat down to discuss AI risk.
Now, Ben is out with a new book he co-wrote with Tantum Collins titled “The Bitter Struggle: Superintelligence, Superpowers, and the Fate of the World.” In it, he argues that open societies like the U.S. must win the AI race against closed societies like China to avoid worst-case scenarios.
If you listen to this show, you’ll know that this is a frame we’ve been critical of. Is it really a race between two nations — or a trap that threatens to ensnare us all? In this episode, Ben makes his case for AI competition, explores the growing threat that AI poses to cybersecurity, and outlines the steps he would like to see government take to regulate AI in the coming years.
You can buy Ben’s book here or wherever books are sold.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA
The Bitter Struggle: Superintelligence, Superpowers, and the Fate of the World by Ben Buchanan and Tantum Collins
The Cybersecurity Dilemma by Ben Buchanan
The Hacker and the State by Ben Buchanan
Ben and Dean Ball’s op-ed in the NYT about why AI policy should be bipartisan
Richard Sutton’s essay on The Bitter Lesson
Further reading on the US-China AI talks in Geneva

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES
An Historic AI Summit in Iceland, and a Conversation with its President
We Need AI Treaties. This is How We Get Them
America and China Are Racing to Different AI Futures

CORRECTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS
Ben said that he prefers to use the term competition, rather than "race" to describe the dynamic between the U.S. and China and that the term "race" does not appear in his book in that context. However, the term "race" is used in the book a handful of times to describe the competition, and it is explicitly compared to an "arms race" and the "Space Race" several times.
Ben said that President Trump had "reversed" the Biden era export controls. This is only partially true; the Trump administration has reversed many, but not all, of the export controls.
Ben said that GPT-2 came out in June, 2019. It was actually February, 2019.
In describing the state of the country around the release of GPT-3, Ben incorrectly referred to the date of the murder of George Floyd. Floyd was killed on May 25, 2020, three days before the release of GPT3.



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Behind the AI race, there's a philosophy with an intellectual lineage and a body of work that holds that human beings are a defective early draft, that the things that make us humans are bugs to be fixed, that this planet is expendable and we can move on to the next. And that the suffering of real people today is a rounding error against the value of a cosmic future.
Broadly speaking, these ideas fit under the umbrella of transhumanism. You might hear it referred to as techno-optimism or accelerationism. Twenty years ago, these were the beliefs of an ideological fringe in Silicon Valley. Today, they are held by many of the people who build and govern the most powerful technology in human history.
In this episode, we name and explore these underlying beliefs and the people who hold them — so that you can recognize this anti-human vision of the future when it appears in a press statement, or buried in a manifesto, or in a carefully worded thread on X. And we discuss how to counter those ideas with a pro-human vision that embraces the full complexity of our world.
Our guest this week has devoted his career to thinking about these critical issues. Alex Thomas is a senior lecturer at the University of East London and the author of "The Politics and Ethics of Transhumanism." He first started studying transhumanism years ago when it was an abstract academic curiosity, and he's watched as it's become, in his own words, "arguably the most powerful ideological force on the planet."

RECOMMENDED MEDIA
“The Politics and Ethics of Transhumanism” by Alexander Thomas
Peter Thiel’s interview with Ross Douthat on Interesting Times
Marc Andreesen’s “Techno-Optimist Manifesto”
Further reading about The Broligarchy
“The Nerd Reich” by Gil Durán
Further reading about The Intelligence Curse
The website for the human-computer interface company Merge Labs

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES
The Tech-God Complex: Why We Need to be Skeptics
Can Myth Teach Us Anything About the Race to Build Artificial General Intelligence? With Josh Schrei
How Zombie Values Infect Society

CORRECTIONS & CLARIFICATIONS
Tristan incorrectly characterized Daniel Faggella as an accelerationist. Though Faggella has indeed advocated for the creation of a “worthy successor” to humans that would have “more moral value than all of humanity” and would “determine the future path of life itself,” he has also been a strong advocate for slowing the pace of AI development and for much stronger AI governance.
Alex referred to the art exhibit that inspired his interest in transhumanism as “The Future Superhuman.” It was actually just “Superhuman”.
Alex stated that the Extropians “debated privatizing air and water.” This is true, but they were referring to bodies of water, not drinking water.
Alex cited 2015 as the publication year of Sam Altman’s blog about The Merge. It was actually 2017. Additionally, he characterized The Merge in stronger terms than how they characterize their own mission: "we could restore lost abilities, support healthier brain states, deepen our connection with each other, and expand what we can imagine and create alongside advanced AI."
Alex mistakenly referred to Nick Bostrom’s idea of the cosmic sublime as the “cosmological sublime.”





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Earlier this year, we brought you a conversation about our mission to bring together researchers, psychologists, engineers, and technologists from across the entire AI ecosystem to build out the expertise and infrastructure we need to measure AI's impact on humans.
In this bonus episode, Imran Khan — a researcher and strategist who's been leading CHT's efforts in this area — sits down with a woman at the forefront of that mission. Mathilde Collin is a software engineer and entrepreneur who founded KORA, the world’s leading benchmark for how AI models interact with children. Mathilde talks about how and why she built KORA and what she learned in the process.
At a time when two-thirds of US teenagers already use AI chatbots, tools like KORA are vital to improving outcomes. But what makes this tool special is that it’s not just another study; it’s a technological answer to a technological problem. To truly make AI safer, we need solutions from people like Mathilde: engineers, builders, and entrepreneurs.
RECOMMENDED MEDIA
You can explore KORA here.
RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES
We Measure What AI Can Do. We Should Measure What It Does to Us.
How OpenAI's ChatGPT Guided a Teen to His Death
Echo Chambers of One: Companion AI and the Future of Human Connection
Correction: Mathilde says that "half of parents" have never talked to their children about AI. The actual number from the best study on this topic is four out of ten parents.





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On October 11, 1986, Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev met at Höfði House in Reykjavik, Iceland, to confront the threat hanging over both their nations: the nuclear arms race. The summit was hastily arranged, light on ceremony, and ended without a deal. But today it’s seen as the moment that upended the game theory of the Cold War. A year later, the two leaders signed the first treaty to eliminate an entire class of nuclear weapons.
Forty years to the day, Tristan and Aza joined 15 world leaders at Höfði House, including Icelandic President Halla Tómasdóttir, for a dialogue on global coordination around AI. It capped a weekend in Reykjavik where leaders, diplomats, and policymakers had candid conversations about the AI future we’re headed toward, and made commitments to steer toward a better one.
The 1986 Reykjavik meeting didn’t end the nuclear arms race. It made ending it imaginable. That’s exactly the moment we need today with AI.
In this episode, Tristan and Aza sit down with President Tómasdóttir to discuss what happened in Reykjavik and what it means for our future.
Note: This episode was recorded on Monday, 10/12.
RECOMMENDED MEDIA
Stream The AI Doc on Netflix
President Tómasdóttir’s “Call for Responsible Leadership in Turbulent Times”​​​​‌‍​‍​‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌‌‍‍‌‌‍‍​‍​‍​‍‍​‍​‍‌​‌‍​‌‌‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍‌​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍​‍​‍​​‍​‍‌‍‍​‌​‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌‍​‍​‍​‍‍​‍​‍‌‍‍​‌‌​‌‌​‌​​‌​​‍​‍‌‍‌‍‌‍‌​‍‌​‌‍‌‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌​‍‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍​‌‍​‌‌‍‍‌‍‌​‌​​‍‍‌‌‍‌‍‌‌‌​‍‌‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍​​‍‍‌‍​‌‌​​‌​​​‍‌​‌‌​‌‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌​​‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​​‍‌‍‌‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‌‌​​‌​‍‌‍‌‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍‌‍‍​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌​​‌‌‍‌​​​‌​‍​‌‍​‍​‌‌‍‌‌​‍‌‌‍​‌​‍‌​​‍​‍​​‌​​​​‍‌​‌​‌‍​​​‌‌‍‌‍​‍‌‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‍‌​​​‌​‍‌​‌‍​‌‌​​‌‍‌‍‌‍‌‌​‌​‌​​​​​‍​‌‍​‍‌​​​​‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌​​‌‍‌‌​‌‌‍‍‌‍‌‌‌‌‌​​‍‌​​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍​​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍​‌‍‌‌​‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‌‌​‍‌‍​​‌‌‍‍​‌‌​‌‌​‌​​‌​​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍‌‍‌‍‌‍‌​‍‌​‌‍‌‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌​‍‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍​‌‍​‌‌‍‍‌‍‌​‌​​‍‍‌‌‍‌‍‌‌‌​‍‌‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍​​‍‍‌‍​‌‌​​‌​​​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍‌​‌‌​‌‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍‌‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌​​‌‌‍‌​​​‌​‍​‌‍​‍​‌‌‍‌‌​‍‌‌‍​‌​‍‌​​‍​‍​​‌​​​​‍‌​‌​‌‍​​​‌‌‍‌‍​‍‌‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‍‌​​​‌​‍‌​‌‍​‌‌​​‌‍‌‍‌‍‌‌​‌​‌​​​​​‍​‌‍​‍‌​​​​‍‌‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌​​‌‍‌‌​‌‌‍‍‌‍‌‌‌‌‌​​‍‌‍‌​​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍​​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍​‌‍‌‌​‍‌‍‌​​‌‍‌‌‌​‍‌​‌​​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌‍‌‍‌‌​‌‌​​‌‌‌‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍‌​​‍​‍‌‌
The METR investigation of the Hugging Face incident.

Finnish President Stubb and Norwegian Prime Minister Støre's "call for enhanced control of AI development"
Rent or buy "The Brink of War"
RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES
We Need AI Treaties. This is How We Get Them
A Conversation with the Team Behind "The AI Doc"
America and China Are Racing to Different AI Futures
What Would It Take to Actually Trust Each Other? The Game Theory Dilemma
Corrections
Tristan referred to Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev as “the two presidents.” Gorbachev was Soviet General Secretary. He was not made President of the USSR until 1989.
Tristan referred to The Day After as the largest television event in history. It is actually the second-largest non-sports TV event, after the series finale of MASH.
The 50 petabytes figure for the OpenAI swarm investigation refers to the full archive OpenAI is searching related to the Hugging Face incident, including training and eval records, rather than just the swarm’s communication.
Aza mistakenly referred to the 1986 Reykjavik “accord.” The leaders did not leave the meeting with an accord.
The Stubb/Støre statement was signed by 22 leaders from 20 countries, not by 22 countries as Tristan said.
The quote from Postman is “clarity is courage,” not “clarity creates courage,” as Aza said.





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It’s been a whirlwind week in AI news. Weeks after a series of hacking incidents by rogue agents at OpenAI and Anthropic, we’ve seen a cascade of top AI researchers blow the whistle on what they call the catastrophic and even existential risks posed by the current pace of development. Then, over the weekend, Dario Amodei called for a slowdown in AI research — a call that was echoed by his competitors Sam Altman and Elon Musk.
If you’re feeling both concerned and hopeful at this moment, you’re not alone. Real threats are opening the door for real change. Tristan and Aza are going out into the world, talking to the media, technologists, and policymakers to turn this momentum into action.
Today on the show, Tristan shares how he’s feeling in this critical moment, breaks down the headlines from an insider's perspective, and points to tangible steps we can take right now to avoid the worst-case scenario.
You probably have questions about what’s happening. Good news: Tristan and Aza are gearing up for their annual Ask Us Anything episode. Pull out your phone, record your question, and send it to undivided@humanetech.com.
CORRECTIONS
The quote from Ajeya Cotra that Tristan cites is from her personal Substack, not the official METR report. She is also one of three contributors to the report, not the sole author.
Tristan incorrectly referred to Dario Amodei’s warning that an AI swarm could “take down” the internet. His actual phrasing was “take over” the internet.
President Trump’s call-in to the All In Summit occurred on Monday, 9/14, not Sunday, 9/13.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA
Watch “The AI Doc” on Netflix
Sign The Pro-Human AI Declaration
METR’s investigation of the Hugging Face incident
Dario Amodei’s call to “Pace the Frontier”
The Pacing the Frontier Open Letter
“On the Loose” by Dean Ball

"An Alien Mind" by Jakub Pachoki
"AI May Become the Third Superpower" by Paul Tudor Jones

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES
“Rogue AI” Used to be a Science Fiction Trope. Not Anymore.
The Self-Preserving Machine: Why AI Learns to Deceive
Daniel Kokotajlo Forecasts the End of Human Dominance
Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn
Mustafa Suleyman Says We Need to Contain AI. How Do We Do It?







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